For starters you could just add a cvar to server-side which prohbits anyone who has played above N number of games to join the server. You might be able to even define a range there. Better to define something relative like bottom 20% etc. This would assume the server could get such information but it doesn't seem super hard to implement.
we had organized play back in the 90s with a simple lobby system... and it was fine
Comp play is really just a player-organized form of skill-based matchmaking.
Pretty much you would hang out in the IRC and set up matches, still goes on today alot in Quakeworld, Quake 3, and Quake live. Jumping into one of those fresh things are going to ugly alot faster than they do in NS2.
Dota like games (or MOBA i guess is the term they called it now) has a pretty high learning curve too, RTS has pretty big curves too like starcraft 2. What those games have over NS2 they have a much larger playerbase across a wide range of player skill which allows them to have matchmaking ranking(elo or whatever they use) system.
Random function based on last round k/d ratio. Really easy to make. Should just try it.
But I guess it's too simple. You gotta have some mad algorithms and match history that ends up being just as flawed.
EDIT: Oh yeah, keeping pres when switching teams really needs to come back. Nobody is gonna switch if they lose 70 res.
Not K/D, because I've seen many players who get good K/D but are super crap at the tactical and economic part of the game, if done by score that would make much more sense, because I've seen plenty of times players not getting kills and having really high score, this game is more about then just being FPS deathmatch, though that system would very well for Combat.
Players who get good k/d ratio still have a big impact on the game, no matter how bad they suck in scores.
Players who have high scores but low k/d do not necessarily have a big impact on the game.
Both stats are skewed, but k/d is the only one that has guaranteed impact.
Ahh, but I've seen many games where one team has better K/D, but lose, because their map vision is bad and they keep losing resources towers, only going for kills can be an issue, because a decent team knows that killing resources towers wins you the game.
But I agree that RTS side of the game isn't impacting enough, though the Commander is the first to be blamed.
Random function based on last round k/d ratio. Really easy to make. Should just try it.
But I guess it's too simple. You gotta have some mad algorithms and match history that ends up being just as flawed.
EDIT: Oh yeah, keeping pres when switching teams really needs to come back. Nobody is gonna switch if they lose 70 res.
Not K/D, because I've seen many players who get good K/D but are super crap at the tactical and economic part of the game, if done by score that would make much more sense, because I've seen plenty of times players not getting kills and having really high score, this game is more about then just being FPS deathmatch, though that system would very well for Combat.
I've got my doubts about this. I see this more as an issue with impact on other players.... if someone has a high score, that means they're doing their jobs with taking out rts, building, whatever. More on the tactical side of things. However, this is seen as part of the game, and only seen in the longerterm - it's easier to live with and frustrates players less as it has a minimal direct impact. Or minimal perceived direct impact, anyway.
High KD, or "untouchable" players though have a massive impact in the short term and they're very very visible. If one or two people are holding specific areas and murders you every time you (or lets say a new player) even get close that is instantly frustrating and pisses people off, which only builds over time.
It's not "decent tactical knowledge" that I think is driving people away. It's, quite simply, people who can kill far too efficiently in comparison to other players on the same server.
Random function based on last round k/d ratio. Really easy to make. Should just try it.
But I guess it's too simple. You gotta have some mad algorithms and match history that ends up being just as flawed.
EDIT: Oh yeah, keeping pres when switching teams really needs to come back. Nobody is gonna switch if they lose 70 res.
Not K/D, because I've seen many players who get good K/D but are super crap at the tactical and economic part of the game, if done by score that would make much more sense, because I've seen plenty of times players not getting kills and having really high score, this game is more about then just being FPS deathmatch, though that system would very well for Combat.
I've got my doubts about this. I see this more as an issue with impact on other players.... if someone has a high score, that means they're doing their jobs with taking out rts, building, whatever. More on the tactical side of things. However, this is seen as part of the game, and only seen in the longerterm - it's easier to live with and frustrates players less as it has a minimal direct impact. Or minimal perceived direct impact, anyway.
High KD, or "untouchable" players though have a massive impact in the short term and they're very very visible. If one or two people are holding specific areas and every time you (or lets say a new player) even gets close that is instantly frustrating and pisses people off, which only builds over time.
It's not "decent tactical knowledge" that I think is driving people away. It's, quite simply, people who can kill far too efficiently in comparison to other players on the same server.
I guess that's the flaw of how the game is sold, too much as a FPS, so people care more about their K/D, instead of the how the games going, this is a RTS game set in a FPS world, the team should be punished not protecting their resource towers, I'm the few that probably think game should be harder for teams not playing the game properly, though I do know that FPS games are made easy for a reason, more action then mind.
But us guys more from a RTS side, feel like that tactical playing isn't always awarded, but balancing teams by K/D still has many faults.
using k/d as a gauge really depends on where the kills and deaths occur. I've been in games where the marine team is floating an average 2:1 kd,but the aliens were losing lifeforms in marine territory. defensIve play will net you higher kd usually, but if that's all you're doing it won't net you the win.
Players who get good k/d ratio still have a big impact on the game, no matter how bad they suck in scores.
Players who have high scores but low k/d do not necessarily have a big impact on the game.
Both stats are skewed, but k/d is the only one that has guaranteed impact.
Both are not that great, but I have to agree that K/D has a bigger impact. Still, the kill is awarded to whoever deals the final blow, which means that someone could potentially do 99% of the damage only to have credit for the kill go to another player. This is somewhat remedied by server mods that track assists as well as kills. That gives somewhat more of an accurate depiction, although it is also possible for a player to have a large impact on the game without getting an exorbitant number of kills. A solo skulk could potentially be something like 2-0 but have just as much impact as his teammates who are 9-2 or something similar.
Scores are also messed up for the same reason as kills - the person who deals the final blow gets the credit. If four players take down a phase gate, only the player who actually destroys it gets credit for it - getting the full 20 points while everyone else gets zero. And then of course there's always the potential for a player on pubs to get a ridiculous score by just going around and chewing on every power node, something that is completely useless but still awards a lot of points.
Another problem with both of them is that commanders will usually have few kills and low scores despite being extremely important to the team
Long story short there's no perfect way to evaluate a player's value based purely on numbers, but a player with a good K/D is undoubtedly helping his team. A player with a high score is not guaranteed to be helping his team that much.
Managed to get a couple peoples to buy the game. None stayed, played barely a few hours. And they all love shooters.
There's the issue, this isn't a shooter per-se, it's an RTS game, with most playing it from a FPS view, you main aim is not to shoot things, it's only a means to an end.
Most FPS players struggle with high need of teamwork and the snowballing effect of an RTS game.
About teamwork, another FPS game to be touted as a game for teamwork is counter-strike, but we all know you barely need teamwork for that, high level yes, but low level not a tiny bit.
I do believe this game is sold in a incorrect way, shouldn't be sold so heavily from a FPS point of view.
Managed to get a couple peoples to buy the game. None stayed, played barely a few hours. And they all love shooters.
There's the issue, this isn't a shooter per-se, it's an RTS game, with most playing it from a FPS view, you main aim is not to shoot things, it's only a means to an end.
Most FPS players struggle with high need of teamwork and the snowballing effect of an RTS game.
About teamwork, another FPS game to be touted as a game for teamwork is counter-strike, but we all know you barely need teamwork for that, high level yes, but low level not a tiny bit.
I do believe this game is sold in a incorrect way, shouldn't be sold so heavily from a FPS point of view.
The players who have the highest KD and dominate the game rarely need to engage in "teamwork". A lot of the time they go off alone and will 1v1 or 2v1 any skulks with ease. These are also the players that win the game, so yeah the FPS element is the most important one if you want to succeed.
Managed to get a couple peoples to buy the game. None stayed, played barely a few hours. And they all love shooters.
There's the issue, this isn't a shooter per-se, it's an RTS game, with most playing it from a FPS view, you main aim is not to shoot things, it's only a means to an end.
Most FPS players struggle with high need of teamwork and the snowballing effect of an RTS game.
About teamwork, another FPS game to be touted as a game for teamwork is counter-strike, but we all know you barely need teamwork for that, high level yes, but low level not a tiny bit.
I do believe this game is sold in a incorrect way, shouldn't be sold so heavily from a FPS point of view.
The players who have the highest KD and dominate the game rarely need to engage in "teamwork". A lot of the time they go off alone and will 1v1 or 2v1 any skulks with ease. These are also the players that win the game, so yeah the FPS element is the most important one if you want to succeed.
That's if the teams are massively out-skilled, but as this community is quite small, that's becoming less of an issue, because most who are still playing are well versed about the in and outs of the game.
So actually team work has become more important, very rarely do I see one guy just dominating, maybe still on the rookie servers, but servers where regulars play, very rarely.
Basically close to even teams, teamwork wins, if uneven it's the team with the better players.
Yep people are learning for sure. Random thing i've noticed is I'm now seeing marines regularly run past the first rt to exhibit pressure and the last guy builds w/o having to say a word. Its great
Metal ManJoin Date: 2011-11-13Member: 132717Members
From my point of view this game should be as hard and challenging as it wants to be. Skill difference is what makes competitive games work and pushes people to learn more and get better. For many competitive games the early days of playing, while filled with loss, should be fun in their own right. I think DOTA is a great example, for me at least. It is frustrating and difficult at first but you learn and get better and eventually put that knowledge to extremely satisfying use. If you can't handle it you quit and realize it isn't your game. Despite being extremely harsh and competitive it has an absurdly huge and constant player base.
I feel like this game could have been like that, and maybe more, but it performs very poorly and lags and it is hard to track despite being a fast paced shooter. So during this transitional learning period, although you are improving and gaining experience, you can't take any enjoyment from it because it runs like a brick pushing through a constipated asshole. It is very easy to mod and change visuals and gameplay, so the need for achievements and rewards seems obsolete.
Fix the performance, keep its competitive nature (increase really) and this entire thread is a non-issue. NS2 will be the competitive, fast-paced shooting dynamo that we all hoped and dreamed about. Until then the game will lose a bulk of its player base because the competitive players dont want to compete in a hazy sand storm and the more casual players dont want to get rocked by the few masters who stay around. I hate to be so harsh but everyone else sees this UWE. Devote your ENTIRE RESOURCES TO IMPROVING PERFORMANCE (EVERYTHING)... or this game will soon be a ghost town.
I'm yet to hear any new player respond positively to the in-game tutorials. More often the first thing I get asked is how to turn them off so they can hear what's going on in game...
Comments
Dota like games (or MOBA i guess is the term they called it now) has a pretty high learning curve too, RTS has pretty big curves too like starcraft 2. What those games have over NS2 they have a much larger playerbase across a wide range of player skill which allows them to have matchmaking ranking(elo or whatever they use) system.
Not K/D, because I've seen many players who get good K/D but are super crap at the tactical and economic part of the game, if done by score that would make much more sense, because I've seen plenty of times players not getting kills and having really high score, this game is more about then just being FPS deathmatch, though that system would very well for Combat.
Players who have high scores but low k/d do not necessarily have a big impact on the game.
Both stats are skewed, but k/d is the only one that has guaranteed impact.
Ahh, but I've seen many games where one team has better K/D, but lose, because their map vision is bad and they keep losing resources towers, only going for kills can be an issue, because a decent team knows that killing resources towers wins you the game.
But I agree that RTS side of the game isn't impacting enough, though the Commander is the first to be blamed.
I've got my doubts about this. I see this more as an issue with impact on other players.... if someone has a high score, that means they're doing their jobs with taking out rts, building, whatever. More on the tactical side of things. However, this is seen as part of the game, and only seen in the longerterm - it's easier to live with and frustrates players less as it has a minimal direct impact. Or minimal perceived direct impact, anyway.
High KD, or "untouchable" players though have a massive impact in the short term and they're very very visible. If one or two people are holding specific areas and murders you every time you (or lets say a new player) even get close that is instantly frustrating and pisses people off, which only builds over time.
It's not "decent tactical knowledge" that I think is driving people away. It's, quite simply, people who can kill far too efficiently in comparison to other players on the same server.
People don't get pissed off as much with those who have a high score.
They do, however get pissed off with those with high/epic kd
I guess that's the flaw of how the game is sold, too much as a FPS, so people care more about their K/D, instead of the how the games going, this is a RTS game set in a FPS world, the team should be punished not protecting their resource towers, I'm the few that probably think game should be harder for teams not playing the game properly, though I do know that FPS games are made easy for a reason, more action then mind.
But us guys more from a RTS side, feel like that tactical playing isn't always awarded, but balancing teams by K/D still has many faults.
Both are not that great, but I have to agree that K/D has a bigger impact. Still, the kill is awarded to whoever deals the final blow, which means that someone could potentially do 99% of the damage only to have credit for the kill go to another player. This is somewhat remedied by server mods that track assists as well as kills. That gives somewhat more of an accurate depiction, although it is also possible for a player to have a large impact on the game without getting an exorbitant number of kills. A solo skulk could potentially be something like 2-0 but have just as much impact as his teammates who are 9-2 or something similar.
Scores are also messed up for the same reason as kills - the person who deals the final blow gets the credit. If four players take down a phase gate, only the player who actually destroys it gets credit for it - getting the full 20 points while everyone else gets zero. And then of course there's always the potential for a player on pubs to get a ridiculous score by just going around and chewing on every power node, something that is completely useless but still awards a lot of points.
Another problem with both of them is that commanders will usually have few kills and low scores despite being extremely important to the team
Long story short there's no perfect way to evaluate a player's value based purely on numbers, but a player with a good K/D is undoubtedly helping his team. A player with a high score is not guaranteed to be helping his team that much.
There's the issue, this isn't a shooter per-se, it's an RTS game, with most playing it from a FPS view, you main aim is not to shoot things, it's only a means to an end.
Most FPS players struggle with high need of teamwork and the snowballing effect of an RTS game.
About teamwork, another FPS game to be touted as a game for teamwork is counter-strike, but we all know you barely need teamwork for that, high level yes, but low level not a tiny bit.
I do believe this game is sold in a incorrect way, shouldn't be sold so heavily from a FPS point of view.
Did they mention why?
The players who have the highest KD and dominate the game rarely need to engage in "teamwork". A lot of the time they go off alone and will 1v1 or 2v1 any skulks with ease. These are also the players that win the game, so yeah the FPS element is the most important one if you want to succeed.
Yeah the main reason is that they got slaughtered all the time and had no chance to explore the game.
Add to that the occasionnal racist comment or even the bad attitude of a server admin who think he is god and voilà. Less and less players.
Those who quitted won't even hear about trying a comeback.
Ho and let's not forget the useless tutorials.
That's if the teams are massively out-skilled, but as this community is quite small, that's becoming less of an issue, because most who are still playing are well versed about the in and outs of the game.
So actually team work has become more important, very rarely do I see one guy just dominating, maybe still on the rookie servers, but servers where regulars play, very rarely.
Basically close to even teams, teamwork wins, if uneven it's the team with the better players.
I feel like this game could have been like that, and maybe more, but it performs very poorly and lags and it is hard to track despite being a fast paced shooter. So during this transitional learning period, although you are improving and gaining experience, you can't take any enjoyment from it because it runs like a brick pushing through a constipated asshole. It is very easy to mod and change visuals and gameplay, so the need for achievements and rewards seems obsolete.
Fix the performance, keep its competitive nature (increase really) and this entire thread is a non-issue. NS2 will be the competitive, fast-paced shooting dynamo that we all hoped and dreamed about. Until then the game will lose a bulk of its player base because the competitive players dont want to compete in a hazy sand storm and the more casual players dont want to get rocked by the few masters who stay around. I hate to be so harsh but everyone else sees this UWE. Devote your ENTIRE RESOURCES TO IMPROVING PERFORMANCE (EVERYTHING)... or this game will soon be a ghost town.