No good reason to choose crag as first or second hive
Mr.Greedy
Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154270Members
Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154270Members
Its a good idea to try to adjust the other tech-trees. Even on old Beta-days I was preferring the shade hive. Unfortunately it was just the third hive in most of all games. But now the whole crag-path is ridiculously nerfed and will take the third-hive place. The "balancing"-objective failed hard in this case (anyway, I like most of the changes in this patch).
testet on a explore game:
tickrates :
Skulk : 6 HP (was 10)
Gorge : 6,5 HP
Lerk : 6 HP
Fade : 10 HP
Onos : 36 HP
time to get fully healed up:
Skulk : ~ 30 secs
Gorge : ~ 70 secs
Lerk : ~ 55 secs
Fade : ~ 70 secs (!)
Onos: ~ 70 secs
U can easily just run back to the hive, healing up, and return to your last location in half the time. So, whats the sense of regen ? It works in battle now so u gain a littel HP boost .....like carapace. In fact we have got now 2 skills with nearly the same function. Thats stupid.
Carapace is way to low now.
Skulk : 10 armor, 30 with carapace
Gorge : 75 armor, 100 with carapace
Lerk : 45 armor, 60 with carapace
Fade : 80 armor, 100 with carapace
Onos : 450 armor, 550 with carapace
The thing is that the gain of armor is so low that there is no appreciable impact on the gameplay ( except the skulk).
Whats only left is the healing wave and the drifter ability. Wasent that easy to testing that effectivly. Maybe someone else can tell if it is worthless or not?
So, tell me plz why its still a good idea to choose crag @ first or second hive. Maybe I have miss something.
In my eyes the gameplay have to much changed into walking walking walking and waiting for heal heal heal.(even for marines). Thats boring
testet on a explore game:
tickrates :
Skulk : 6 HP (was 10)
Gorge : 6,5 HP
Lerk : 6 HP
Fade : 10 HP
Onos : 36 HP
time to get fully healed up:
Skulk : ~ 30 secs
Gorge : ~ 70 secs
Lerk : ~ 55 secs
Fade : ~ 70 secs (!)
Onos: ~ 70 secs
U can easily just run back to the hive, healing up, and return to your last location in half the time. So, whats the sense of regen ? It works in battle now so u gain a littel HP boost .....like carapace. In fact we have got now 2 skills with nearly the same function. Thats stupid.
Carapace is way to low now.
Skulk : 10 armor, 30 with carapace
Gorge : 75 armor, 100 with carapace
Lerk : 45 armor, 60 with carapace
Fade : 80 armor, 100 with carapace
Onos : 450 armor, 550 with carapace
The thing is that the gain of armor is so low that there is no appreciable impact on the gameplay ( except the skulk).
Whats only left is the healing wave and the drifter ability. Wasent that easy to testing that effectivly. Maybe someone else can tell if it is worthless or not?
So, tell me plz why its still a good idea to choose crag @ first or second hive. Maybe I have miss something.
In my eyes the gameplay have to much changed into walking walking walking and waiting for heal heal heal.(even for marines). Thats boring
Comments
I should probably test exactly how regen works in game now, the changelog said it was 5%, BT had it at I think 7%, and I still don't know if the healing it does takes modified biomass hp into account.
But crag hive needs a buff. *puts on shades* Okay we can go home now shade enthusiasts
(to admin:
also i would like to point out that palagi is unfairly using the spam vote option invalidly and he be warned appropriately.)
I don't think this is a huge issue for regen, it could be used for good hit and run tactics. But yeh carapace is kinda boring, I would not be upset if they just threw it out for something else more interesting.
Won't stop the Fades ducking into a vent after over-extending (me) for 5 seconds (before nerf) and coming back out on full hp but it might help marine teams who are quick to react to lifeform blocking.
I also think solo Crags are basically useless. Heal rates are probably something like the OP regen numbers. Higher lifeforms are generally the only ones thinking about heal locations outside of hives, and they may as well go back to the hive since they will get full HP and be back in position quicker that way.
Perhaps since Crags don't stack, but can heal 3 units/structure at the same time...if there was only 1 unit around then it would get the full x3 effect?
Take the OP as an example as a Fade. You come in on a marine and you have Regen level 3. You take two big shots killing him and end up on ~30 hp. Currently that would take you around 65 seconds to heal up fully. This means that you are not engaging in combat at all, since one good shot kills you. If you wait 30 seconds you might be able to go in for a swipe, but as soon as you take any sort of damage you have to run, since it will put you back into the 1 shot territory.
Now, if you pick cara instead you have more effective HP, and if you do get those 2 big shots and get put down to ~50 hp you can go back to the hive, fully heal and be back in the mix in well under 30 seconds. Basically regen went from OP to "I only need it when I do something really really silly and have to hide in a vent for 2 whole minutes" <---- this is me vs a mix of some US teams. (Before I even knew regen got nerfed wtf).
That said, I think it's going to be tweaked (cara and regen) and hopefully a happy medium can be found where skulks don't rely on on hive path and lerk/fade rely on another.
Ya i pretty much ignore regen now, given the faster speeds of lifeforms (quicker to just go back to hive)
And can crags please heal faster? They no longer stack, and there's no shortage of grenades that can't be whipped back, meaning its incredibly easy to clear them out now.. Yet is painfully slow to heal.
Regen and Carapace are excellent for skulks. IMO right now Celerity is also excellent as it's easier to wallhop and also catch the side jumping marines. Aura is the best for the skulk right now.
Regen is the best for the lerk, closely followed by aura (depending on your style - prefer more bite play than mere spikes?).
You don't need Adrenaline for the fade, and I move marginally slower without Celerity. Phantom and Aura are superior to Regen but Regen is still very good - especially when you consider it's the best for the lerks, and very good for the skulk.
Without doubt the most important evolution is Celerity for the Onos. No question. Phantom is second, and Regen third. However, by the time you have an Onos you should have the second hive up so in these terms IMO Shift hive is always second. I tend to prefer Crag first due to Regen and Crags.
Edit: Regen should heal Fades a little faster (though I am reluctant because I am getting 30+ KDs with it - i suggest it for others). Carapace HAS to be buffed to an acceptable level for the Gorge and Onos. Increase it by 10 to make it more viable for the Lerk.
We want to give players the CHOICE. Phantom and Aura are both excellent skills. Want to pick off enemies with ambushes? Go for Aura with your Skulk, Lerk, Gorge (to see ahead) and Fade. Want to defend your hive with an Onos? Go Aura. Want to do surprise attacks on the base? Pick Phantom. SIlent killer Fade? Phantom.
So provide the same choices with Crag hive. Hit and run or all in until incredibly low?
You need a second and maybe a third healsource with regen (higher lifeforms). Anything else is a pain in the ass.
@BestProfileName: learn to spot your enemys just by hearing them through the wall. Need to be trained but isent that hard. Silent marines are very rare. Phantom is the first choice for me.
Things should fit the tech path type, I think.
Feigning death is a "perception and confusion" thing and would be more suited for the Shade path.
Crag is "endurance and healing" and would rather go well with some special kind of armor that reduces certain types of damage (not universal, otherwise it would be OP) by a certain amount. Or perhaps an ability that makes all damage apply 100% to armor first and only starts to work off HP once armor has been fully cleared - including that the last hit that clears armor away still doesn't do any damage to HP, so you can basically take one Shotgun blast for free as Skulk.
Shift is "movement and energy". It could probably do well with some kind of trait that works like an emergency adrenaline dose and has basically no effect at full HP but becomes more powerful the closer the lifeform is to death. It could be simple stuff like movement speed, attack rate and energy regeneration buffs. Using this trait would require players to put higher lifeforms more at risk if they wanted to profit from it.
If you're in a fight or series of fights that lasts for a grand total of more than 8 seconds after you first get shot as a fade then you will soak up more damage total before dying with regen than cara. I can only see those 40 more ehp being helpful if you get ambushed by 3 guys with shotguns round a corner or something.
Of course I can do that...But the point with aura is that you can see their health and you know which marines to prioritise first.
Of course its possible. Even when carapace gives just 1 extra armor. That 1 armor CAN and WILL probably save a life
Seriously: I think its the better deal to take that 70 res from crag hive and just spend it for extra biomass. Free extra-HP for everyone + higher techlevel .
Edit :
Just tested it out in practise mode. 3 extra biomass costs 80 res (hive 40 res + 2 * 20 res upgrade) Fade gets 30 extra hp and Onos 150 ( + 10 and + 50 per level). Thats nearly the same amount of carapace. One more biomass-up and it IS even. Biomass just sucks for gorge and Lerk ( only +2 hp per biomass level WTF?!). For Skulks its ok (+4 hp per level)
Yeah, I just feel like carapace is sort of a lackluster kind of upgrade compared to some of the other upgrades. I thought it might be more interesting to have biomass be the main method of scaling up both HP and armor, while replacing carapace with some other sort of upgrade. It doesn't have to be feign death per se, it just came to mind.
I think thats the point. Carapace cannot be strong like in old days in reason of biomass. It feels like they have just split the extra HP/Armor u can gain between biomass and carapace. No wonder that carapace is so low.
Crag is a defensive tech. Maybe we should put it in a greater "defensive" position. Regen could work with an increased effect on own territory. Carapace could give you a defensive buff that decreased incoming damage @ 20 % on infestation only (maybe with 1/2 effect outside of infestation). <--- that would automatically increase the crags itself because they would heal the carapace players with a 20% higher efficiency if I dont think wrong ^^ .
The jist of hardened shields is that each individual attack can only do so much damage.
So say the cutoff was 10 damage, an attack that does 10 or less damage does exactly that damage but if the attack would normally do 20 damage it's cut off to only do 10.
Would be good protection against something like the GL and shotgun which do lots of damage in one attack but pretty useless against something like the LMG that does lots of attacks with little damage.
Hell you could still call it Carapace.
Mix that with other ideas such as, CrushaKs doing all damage to armor first or treating all damage as light attacks. I'm sure we could come up with an upgrade that's more interesting than just more health.