A TF2-style store would obviously not work well in NS2.
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
Take a look at the communities. My friend is hardcore into League, but quit because he couldn't stand the people that play the game. DOTA2 attracts largely the same people. I stopped TF2 soon before it went F2P, and from what I hear, I haven't missed much.
And also, you can't seriously use League, DOTA2, or TF2 as a baseline for the success of F2P, especially in comparison to NS2. It's like when people use WOW as the baseline for MMOs--they're just cultural phenomenon that were able to take advantage of budding genres: MOBAs and MMOs (comparatively speaking, TF2 pales to the others, so I'm not including FPSes). New MMOs copying WOW's formula does not guarantee success, just as the success of LOL and DOTA2 don't even remotely typify the result of games trying to implement the F2P system.
F2P simply doesn't work for every game.
Riot Games. Valve Corporation. Unknown Worlds Entertainment.
One of these things is not like the others.
A TF2-style store would obviously not work well in NS2.
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
I completely disagree, I donated because I support the devs and want to see more work go into developing the game, not because I wanted $75 skins.
A TF2-style store would obviously not work well in NS2.
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
I completely disagree, I donated because I support the devs and want to see more work go into developing the game, not because I wanted $75 skins.
this.
will probably pick a gold or diamond pack myself soon
A TF2-style store would obviously not work well in NS2.
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
IMO, the new shadow skulk is pretty close to the limit for cosmetics that could be applied to the aliens. I don't like the idea of all the aliens having overtly different skin patterns because I feel like it would detract from the idea of the aliens being a hive species. They shouldn't have too much individuality, if any at all.
Potential variations on sci-fi combat armor are also limited. It's implausible for every marine to be wearing different armor. As far as I know, they are not mercenaries. They're part of an army or special task force that would have certain standards.
After an amount of time I wouldn't mind seeing "Cheap2Play" but given how easy it is to troll with F2P, at least charging someone a few dollars requires them to have access to a credit card and well be spending money.
I have no problem with F2P, as long as the only unlocks are cosmetic.
However games which are pay/grind to win I f-king hate!
For those that say art style rules out cosmetics in NS2, I think that player population is more important. I am indifferent to cosmetics, but I do like having people to play with in a multi-player only game. A game with consistent art work with no one playing it isn't much use now is it?
When TF2 went f2p, where I live I went from being able to play the same 4 maps during peak time, to being able to play any map I wanted at almost any time of the day. The boost in player population far outweighed any annoyances of F2P.
If NS2 went F2P I'd think that a "premiums" only tag for servers would be handy. It would mean those who wanted to play with out F2P people could join the premium only servers.
Eventually the game will lose playerbase and F2P will be a good way to keep the game alive a while longer. Far from needed at this point though. Also reckon this will never happen due to the amount of effort involved and low profit for UWE if done at the end of the game cycle.
Doing it now would get a lot more players but completely kill the gameplay. This might be overcome in due time as more f2p players become vets but for the first few months it's a pretty bad picture.
Free weekends are a pretty good picture of what would happen and is in general completely unfun to play. If you're lucky you find rookies who listen, more likely you'll end up with players that could go for bots. I can handle this for a few days, constant influx however would be devastating for the current player base.
Some of the above negatives can be solved by adding in matchmaking based on your player rank. A la Dota2. Heck matchmaking like this could even be a good thing for all players concerned if it reaches a player base to sustain it.
Then there's also the problem that a steamid suddenly matters less. Trolling and cheating becomes easier as bans mean jack. F2P also has the side effect of crackers focusing on the game as selling cheats becomes rewarding.
Personally I'm torn between both worlds. F2P could keep NS2 rocking for many years to come and if done right it could become a better game out of it. The problem is that it could easily swing the other way and destroy a great game.
Also making money out of NS2 without throwing hats at it could be problematic. No XP so you can't be selling XP boosters. If they go down the path where you can buy weapons, the game would no longer interest me. Planetside 2 is pretty much a no go for me solely based on this. No matter what people say, whenever I lose weapon choice, it becomes P2W.
Cosmetics is an option but there's only so many different kind of marines you could add without ruining immersion. The best thing they could do is allow people to buy tags, skins, colors so they can customize the marines or lifeforms themselves. Hard to do and needs to be limiting on what colors would be allowed or we'll see rainbow marines.
Also not sure how you'd customize the aliens, adding in another tentacle here and there and changing skin colors wouldn't get you very far.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
edited September 2013
TF2 is a very loosely balanced game with a carefree and silly atmosphere. NS2 is a very tightly balanced game (or at least that's the goal) with fairly grim themes and settings. Silly new gun and aesthetic upgrades via workshop contributions just don't make as much sense in NS2.
Well, let me walk that back a bit - aesthetic additions that fit the theme and setting could work, but it's still a lot of effort to do it well.
And as others have certainly pointed out by now - at 75% off the game is less than seven bucks on steam right now. That's less than what a lot of single items on the MannCo. store cost.
IMO, the new shadow skulk is pretty close to the limit for cosmetics that could be applied to the aliens. I don't like the idea of all the aliens having overtly different skin patterns because I feel like it would detract from the idea of the aliens being a hive species. They shouldn't have too much individuality, if any at all.
I wouldn't mind it if there were enough cosmetic variations to let you identify specific skulks at a glance.
"Oh shit, it's WildCat!" *recycle base*
tf2 and dota2 are F2P because they support themselves on microtransactions, and tf2 did this long before it became f2p.
some people have spent literally thousands of dollars on keys/unusual hats etc. it's a really addictive and clever system, not unlike the reinforced assault marine/shadow skulk etc, because people like to customise and individualise their 'character'.
A TF2-style store would obviously not work well in NS2.
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
i disagree, i did spent 75$ to see ns2 grow and further develop. the skins and special decal is a nice way from uwe to thank you for once again giving them your cash and support
A TF2-style store would obviously not work well in NS2.
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
I am going to part with $75 not only because I am getting some new models and skins. I am willing to part the $ because UWE has been really good and upfront with what they are doing, and the continual support via balance changes and also new content. I have never paid twice for a game, but I am willing to make an exception to UWE because of their passion, and philosophy. I played TF2 for a while (F2P), but don't bother with it now because the game is such a cluster $%^&. I see more achievement servers and market servers than actual game servers (\cringe). Can't wait til I get paid so I can give UWE my $75.
Quake live ran a deficit for years. I'm not sure that's a great example if UWE wants to make money - I mean, if id struggles to make it work then a relatively tiny indie like UWE is going to have an impossible task with that business model. Besides, I don't think the player count in NS2 is high enough for an advertisement based system to generate remotely sufficient revenue (not to mention how distasteful in-game ads are to most people).
If anything UWE should charge more for NS2 but I guess it's easier to sell a game that's essentially 2-3 times cheaper than all these "triple A" releases that varies from being absolute garbage like "Aliens: Colonial marines" and "call of duty" to being good/okay like "Xcom: Enemy unknown" and "bioshock infinite".
A TF2-style store would obviously not work well in NS2.
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
It's about supporting the devs and not about getting some decals.
Also the amount of people who have bought the game would be pretty pissed off, especially when this weekend has brought it to the possition 5th in the top sellers
Except there are no hat stores there - quake live charges a subscribtion for access to more content, and unfortunately there're not many users playing that content. I had a premium sub for a year and still played mostly on free servers, because only those had players in them.
Although F2P doesn't automatically mean 'pay 2 win,' it's not a popular move amongst gamers.
The model that UWE is adopting is remarkable if they can pull it off. In almost every other game, the developers may support it for a while afterwards, bug squashing, making it more robust and smoother, maybe the odd content patch.
UWE has taken the longer-term approach to refining their game, and that's actually quite ground-breaking.
I supported because I loved NS1 and I love NS2 and I didn't become a constellation member when I always felt I should have done. At least I'm a little richer now than as a poor student and can afford a bit of generosity finally. For the thousands of hours of fun I've had from NS1/NS2 combined, I'm delighted to be able to give something back to UWE.
If the game ever went F2P/hats/buy unlocks and the like, I'm pretty sure NS2 would lose a lot of its hardcore player base. The number of likes/dislikes on the OP's post attests to this.
Although F2P doesn't automatically mean 'pay 2 win,' it's not a popular move amongst gamers.
The model that UWE is adopting is remarkable if they can pull it off. In almost every other game, the developers may support it for a while afterwards, bug squashing, making it more robust and smoother, maybe the odd content patch.
UWE has taken the longer-term approach to refining their game, and that's actually quite ground-breaking.
I supported because I loved NS1 and I love NS2 and I didn't become a constellation member when I always felt I should have done. At least I'm a little richer now than as a poor student and can afford a bit of generosity finally. For the thousands of hours of fun I've had from NS1/NS2 combined, I'm delighted to be able to give something back to UWE.
If the game ever went F2P/hats/buy unlocks and the like, I'm pretty sure NS2 would lose a lot of its hardcore player base. The number of likes/dislikes on the OP's post attests to this.
If they can pull it off. Supporting a game for less than a year after release with a total of 2 major free content patches isn't all that new. I appreciate the sentiment but I won't call it groundbreaking until they are still doing it 5 years later. Odds are the game is going to die out from under them before it reaches that point though unfortunately.
A TF2-style store would obviously not work well in NS2.
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
You can't put all people in the same bag. Some, like me, did send a "Thank you" for all these years from NS1 to NS2. In my case i'm not sure it goes up to 1 cent for every NS1/NS2 compiled hours played.
After an amount of time I wouldn't mind seeing "Cheap2Play" but given how easy it is to troll with F2P, at least charging someone a few dollars requires them to have access to a credit card and well be spending money.
I add : Free2play is just an illusion. There is always something to pay. For example : the mobile phone. You buy a mobile phone with an offer which is engaging you for a year or two. If you put every numbers together you finally pay a more expensive price for the device than if you buy it alone and subscribe to a low budget offer.
The price of the game is actually low.
I see right now on steam 5.94€ (22.99€ - 75% off) and 9.24€ (36.99€ -75% off) for deluxe. A 4pack (4 license that can be given) is 17.24€ (68.99€ - 75% off)...
Even at 22€ (25$) it's not something people can't afford. Anything else like bike(BMX), skateboard and such are costing far much than that just for a decent set of gears (not including hospital bills).
you newbs and your broad generalizations...
www.quakelive.com
best game ever
free to play
deal with it
That Troll... It's an arena type game. Nothing to do with NS2. It's like comparing a flat surface and a cube...
It's not because it is dumb that it is better young Padawan.
For this game to work, you need team work and the ability to actually identify and achieve objectives, or at least follow the orders that your commander or team mates give you. If you make this game free, we will be inundated with team stacking, solo/ramboing, oblivious, COD/MW/BF noobs who will not listen, not care, and upon raising the ire of others, will proceed to troll them, while vote-kicks will be ineffectual.
Whenever there is a free weekend, many of my NS2 veteran friends stay away from the game until the green rush is over. If they make the game free to play there will be very few opportunities for us to enjoy what's left of a once fun game, as all the pro servers will be constantly full of those beta and first release survivors seeking refuge from the deluge.
Making the game free-to-play necessitates purchasable advantages to enable any kind of revenue stream, ruining the game for those of us who have already paid far more than the 75%-off sale price. At least with the once-a-month sales, UWE gets some solid, non-refundable cash flows, the new players having spent some money for the full game will try to stick to it and learn the ropes properly, and the vets can stay away until the intolerable idiots rage quit out, never to be seen again.
Free to play will mean the game descends into anarchy, UWE will have no reliable income as they are at the mercy of the whims of moochers, and UWE will gain an infamy for producing poorly optimized, troll-filled games that will be difficult to shake off.
Did you not play a game this weekend during the free weekend promo? It was a disaster. I had to play like 15 terrible games to get in 1 decent one. The experience took a huge dive when the promo began.
Comments
That's not true at all. I think this reinforced program has already proven that people are willing to pay for badges or decals on their marine or different skulk skins like the shadow skulk.
If items like that were in a store, the "style" of NS2 would remain the same and people would actually buy those things.
And also, you can't seriously use League, DOTA2, or TF2 as a baseline for the success of F2P, especially in comparison to NS2. It's like when people use WOW as the baseline for MMOs--they're just cultural phenomenon that were able to take advantage of budding genres: MOBAs and MMOs (comparatively speaking, TF2 pales to the others, so I'm not including FPSes). New MMOs copying WOW's formula does not guarantee success, just as the success of LOL and DOTA2 don't even remotely typify the result of games trying to implement the F2P system.
F2P simply doesn't work for every game.
Riot Games. Valve Corporation. Unknown Worlds Entertainment.
One of these things is not like the others.
I completely disagree, I donated because I support the devs and want to see more work go into developing the game, not because I wanted $75 skins.
this.
will probably pick a gold or diamond pack myself soon
IMO, the new shadow skulk is pretty close to the limit for cosmetics that could be applied to the aliens. I don't like the idea of all the aliens having overtly different skin patterns because I feel like it would detract from the idea of the aliens being a hive species. They shouldn't have too much individuality, if any at all.
Potential variations on sci-fi combat armor are also limited. It's implausible for every marine to be wearing different armor. As far as I know, they are not mercenaries. They're part of an army or special task force that would have certain standards.
Isn't it already? With the current content, I'd say 23€ is a *very* good deal.
(That's assuming the lag issues get fixed soon, of course.)
However games which are pay/grind to win I f-king hate!
For those that say art style rules out cosmetics in NS2, I think that player population is more important. I am indifferent to cosmetics, but I do like having people to play with in a multi-player only game. A game with consistent art work with no one playing it isn't much use now is it?
When TF2 went f2p, where I live I went from being able to play the same 4 maps during peak time, to being able to play any map I wanted at almost any time of the day. The boost in player population far outweighed any annoyances of F2P.
If NS2 went F2P I'd think that a "premiums" only tag for servers would be handy. It would mean those who wanted to play with out F2P people could join the premium only servers.
Doing it now would get a lot more players but completely kill the gameplay. This might be overcome in due time as more f2p players become vets but for the first few months it's a pretty bad picture.
Free weekends are a pretty good picture of what would happen and is in general completely unfun to play. If you're lucky you find rookies who listen, more likely you'll end up with players that could go for bots. I can handle this for a few days, constant influx however would be devastating for the current player base.
Some of the above negatives can be solved by adding in matchmaking based on your player rank. A la Dota2. Heck matchmaking like this could even be a good thing for all players concerned if it reaches a player base to sustain it.
Then there's also the problem that a steamid suddenly matters less. Trolling and cheating becomes easier as bans mean jack. F2P also has the side effect of crackers focusing on the game as selling cheats becomes rewarding.
Personally I'm torn between both worlds. F2P could keep NS2 rocking for many years to come and if done right it could become a better game out of it. The problem is that it could easily swing the other way and destroy a great game.
Also making money out of NS2 without throwing hats at it could be problematic. No XP so you can't be selling XP boosters. If they go down the path where you can buy weapons, the game would no longer interest me. Planetside 2 is pretty much a no go for me solely based on this. No matter what people say, whenever I lose weapon choice, it becomes P2W.
Cosmetics is an option but there's only so many different kind of marines you could add without ruining immersion. The best thing they could do is allow people to buy tags, skins, colors so they can customize the marines or lifeforms themselves. Hard to do and needs to be limiting on what colors would be allowed or we'll see rainbow marines.
Also not sure how you'd customize the aliens, adding in another tentacle here and there and changing skin colors wouldn't get you very far.
tl/dr: F2P not likely to work.
Well, let me walk that back a bit - aesthetic additions that fit the theme and setting could work, but it's still a lot of effort to do it well.
And as others have certainly pointed out by now - at 75% off the game is less than seven bucks on steam right now. That's less than what a lot of single items on the MannCo. store cost.
I wouldn't mind it if there were enough cosmetic variations to let you identify specific skulks at a glance.
"Oh shit, it's WildCat!" *recycle base*
some people have spent literally thousands of dollars on keys/unusual hats etc. it's a really addictive and clever system, not unlike the reinforced assault marine/shadow skulk etc, because people like to customise and individualise their 'character'.
i disagree, i did spent 75$ to see ns2 grow and further develop. the skins and special decal is a nice way from uwe to thank you for once again giving them your cash and support
www.quakelive.com
best game ever
free to play
deal with it
I am going to part with $75 not only because I am getting some new models and skins. I am willing to part the $ because UWE has been really good and upfront with what they are doing, and the continual support via balance changes and also new content. I have never paid twice for a game, but I am willing to make an exception to UWE because of their passion, and philosophy. I played TF2 for a while (F2P), but don't bother with it now because the game is such a cluster $%^&. I see more achievement servers and market servers than actual game servers (\cringe). Can't wait til I get paid so I can give UWE my $75.
Quake live ran a deficit for years. I'm not sure that's a great example if UWE wants to make money - I mean, if id struggles to make it work then a relatively tiny indie like UWE is going to have an impossible task with that business model. Besides, I don't think the player count in NS2 is high enough for an advertisement based system to generate remotely sufficient revenue (not to mention how distasteful in-game ads are to most people).
XCOM - Enemy Unknown was awesome.
It's about supporting the devs and not about getting some decals.
Except there are no hat stores there - quake live charges a subscribtion for access to more content, and unfortunately there're not many users playing that content. I had a premium sub for a year and still played mostly on free servers, because only those had players in them.
Quake III is still a great game though, yes.
The model that UWE is adopting is remarkable if they can pull it off. In almost every other game, the developers may support it for a while afterwards, bug squashing, making it more robust and smoother, maybe the odd content patch.
UWE has taken the longer-term approach to refining their game, and that's actually quite ground-breaking.
I supported because I loved NS1 and I love NS2 and I didn't become a constellation member when I always felt I should have done. At least I'm a little richer now than as a poor student and can afford a bit of generosity finally. For the thousands of hours of fun I've had from NS1/NS2 combined, I'm delighted to be able to give something back to UWE.
If the game ever went F2P/hats/buy unlocks and the like, I'm pretty sure NS2 would lose a lot of its hardcore player base. The number of likes/dislikes on the OP's post attests to this.
If they can pull it off. Supporting a game for less than a year after release with a total of 2 major free content patches isn't all that new. I appreciate the sentiment but I won't call it groundbreaking until they are still doing it 5 years later. Odds are the game is going to die out from under them before it reaches that point though unfortunately.
You can't put all people in the same bag. Some, like me, did send a "Thank you" for all these years from NS1 to NS2. In my case i'm not sure it goes up to 1 cent for every NS1/NS2 compiled hours played.
I add : Free2play is just an illusion. There is always something to pay. For example : the mobile phone. You buy a mobile phone with an offer which is engaging you for a year or two. If you put every numbers together you finally pay a more expensive price for the device than if you buy it alone and subscribe to a low budget offer.
The price of the game is actually low.
I see right now on steam 5.94€ (22.99€ - 75% off) and 9.24€ (36.99€ -75% off) for deluxe. A 4pack (4 license that can be given) is 17.24€ (68.99€ - 75% off)...
Even at 22€ (25$) it's not something people can't afford. Anything else like bike(BMX), skateboard and such are costing far much than that just for a decent set of gears (not including hospital bills).
That Troll... It's an arena type game. Nothing to do with NS2. It's like comparing a flat surface and a cube...
It's not because it is dumb that it is better young Padawan.
Whenever there is a free weekend, many of my NS2 veteran friends stay away from the game until the green rush is over. If they make the game free to play there will be very few opportunities for us to enjoy what's left of a once fun game, as all the pro servers will be constantly full of those beta and first release survivors seeking refuge from the deluge.
Making the game free-to-play necessitates purchasable advantages to enable any kind of revenue stream, ruining the game for those of us who have already paid far more than the 75%-off sale price. At least with the once-a-month sales, UWE gets some solid, non-refundable cash flows, the new players having spent some money for the full game will try to stick to it and learn the ropes properly, and the vets can stay away until the intolerable idiots rage quit out, never to be seen again.
Free to play will mean the game descends into anarchy, UWE will have no reliable income as they are at the mercy of the whims of moochers, and UWE will gain an infamy for producing poorly optimized, troll-filled games that will be difficult to shake off.