You could check out the Steelseries Rival, that one is pretty big too and has a good sensor (I'm using it right now and I don't have any complaints). The Razer Deathadder 2013 is a viable option as well.
DecoyJoin Date: 2012-09-11Member: 159037Members, Super Administrators, Playtest Lead, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts, Retired Community Developer
@Roobubba Razer products are great until they break.... which they seem to do quickly. I had a Deathadder... I went through three of them, each lasting me under 6 weeks. It was awful. My thumb buttons kept caving in. I've never had an issue with mice before.
I've gotten 3x longer life out of my Zowie already. The problems I was having with my Deathadder? Haven't had a single issue like it with my Zowie. I also love that the Zowie is plug and play and doesn't need a ton of bulky software like Razer. I got the Zowie EC-2 Evo because my hands are so tiny I need a small mouse. The EC1-Evo is the same size as a Deathadder. I'm a big big fan of the company. I'll be buying Zowie again for sure. Though really I'll buy anything that isn't Razer. Awful experience with their products & their customer service.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Heh, I've had the opposite experience with the Deathadder (not the 2013 model) to my G400s. I've only ever had one and its endured unspeakable things. Still works perfectly.
Yeah the logitechs are good mice. My issue however is with the size of them - they're at least 25% too small. It means that after a while of gaming, I get hand cramps because there's no room for my 4th finger or pinky.
I've now ordered a deathadder (and here's hoping the quality issues don't affect me, it seems like pot luck...) and we'll see if that's any better.
@Decoy, thanks for the heads up on Zowie, I will go straight there if I have issues with the DA!
i had a g400s which was great until it started cutting out all the time, probably like six months after i got it. so i got another g400s. no regrets. it's my perfect mouse.
So I've had a little go with the Deathadder, and it is smooth and responsive for sure. It's not really any bigger than the G400, though the shape is slightly different - instead of tapering to the top of the buttons, the deathadder spreads out a little at the top end, giving the impression of more room than there really is, and it isn't as tall from the desk as the G400 (I favour this more squat form, I think).
There are some rubber grips on the side, which help both with comfort and control - it's well thought out and seems to be nicely designed.
However, it's small! Such a shame that there aren't really any manufacturers catering to the larger-handed gamer crowd, at least with the top-end optical sensor that is in the deathadder and G400s. I'll get used to it, though it won't solve the issues with neither my 4th and 5th fingers fitting on the mouse. If it were about 20% larger in both length and width (but not height), it would be perfect.
G400 suffers from an easily fixable problem that is so common and so odd I'm almost sure it's planned obsolescence.
When you've had it for a year or two, very likely windows will start "losing connection" and then finding the mouse again after a few seconds (brief interrupt in mouse movement and then hardware found noise). It seems utterly random and not connected to the movement of your mouse in any way. It even happens when you don't move the mouse. You can tug the cord and it won't cause noticable glitches. Sometimes it won't happen for hours, sometimes it will be every few minutes.
The problem is an easily "damaged" bit of cord inside the mouse. You just open it up, move the cord a few centimeters back into the mouse and close it back up again (the mousewheel and its little springs are a pain in the ass to reseat correctly, so make sure you remember how it goes toghether before you take it appart). Now it works fine; never any problem. I know three people with G400 mice and they've all had exactly this problem and fixed it in exactly this way.
The other alternative that i've seen was to simply replace it with a cord from another mouse. I was under the impression that problem was the material of the cord, so would you need to repeat the process eventually @Soylent_green ?
I (less than 24 hours) just got the Logitech G502(new) and wow... I've never been in love with a mouse before. I've gone through 3 Deathadder 2013 with wrist problems, and a 2 G400 with wrist problems (slightly better than DA) and both of those mice always felt like they had a bit of jitter whenever I was trying to precisely aim at a small target far away. Not to mention, both of those mice are incredibly light-weight for me, and the G502 weighs quite a bit and that's without the added weights you can put in.
I haven't had any wrist problems, the grip is great, the sensor is hyped and kept company secret atm, and I've never felt something feel more accurate/responsive before.
The other alternative that i've seen was to simply replace it with a cord from another mouse. I was under the impression that problem was the material of the cord, so would you need to repeat the process eventually @Soylent_green ?
Can confirm, G402 one of the best mice in who knows how long. G502 is good as well if you are willing to shell out the extra 20 bucks or whatever it is.
I'm not sure if i'm getting old or what, but fuck me most of the mouse/keyboard look childish as fuck. It's like the design job is made by a friggin anime fan.
no my preference is sleak and clean, i'm using logitech illuminated keyboard, and mx518 which are both awesome for me, not just be how they are designed but how they function, i hate all these mechanical keyboards. I was checking out the booths for razer/steelseries and some others i dont recall names of at a local store last week, and it's like the the only model of keyboard i liked were wireless by logitech, since i shouldn't really keep using illuminated keyboard due to its ghosting issues. But yeah, g402 that you promoted is right there on the limits from the pictures at least, i haven't seen or tested one in person so can't say for sure.
@Ots - MX518 is a good mouse, I had it for years, until I found out that the angle snapping is throwing my aim off in NS2. I don't think a mouse with angle snapping can be ever called "perfect" from a FPS player's point of view.
As for keyboards, you are lamenting the garish design, not the mechanical keys. Mechanical keys are superior, because they provide consistent tactile feedback over the years, while rubber domes degrade over the years. It's like squishing jelly bears, no thanks.
Comes down to preference, i have no problem buying a new keyboard if it's "degrading" as you say, in hopes of preference. But yeah maybe when this one fails i might consider buying something with out the angle snapping issue.
G400s is amazing for FPS games. It's solid sensor and simple design make it awesome. G400s is so cheap on ebay that if it were to break once a year I would be content that I got my money's worth and just buy another one. I modded the switches on mine to make them silent and remove the "click" sound so that it's less fatiguing but I'm OCD like that.
As for keyboards, you are lamenting the garish design, not the mechanical keys. Mechanical keys are superior, because they provide consistent tactile feedback over the years, while rubber domes degrade over the years. It's like squishing jelly bears, no thanks.
Also superior to make awful noise, price + size. If people want a good rubber dome (scissor type) keyboard with quality better to buy apple keyboard. And that mind-game which mx switch is for me ..
Correct about price, incorrect about noise and size. Noise is totally dependent on the type of switch and size is up the manufacturer, size isn't affected by the switch type.
Correct about price, incorrect about noise and size. Noise is totally dependent on the type of switch and size is up the manufacturer, size isn't affected by the switch type.
Well about the key-cap size, couple funny photos
and every switch have bad noise when/if you hit the bottom. Well in my opinion red switch with O ring is quite good (black even better) for noise wise.. That new logitech Romer G switch is interesting..
EDIT:
Logitech well, quality wise cheapest of them all... Keycaps are smooth ABS (smudge magnet), really fragile thin plastic keycaps with rough laser printing and small font (have to use led lighting during the evening), plastic frame + glossy dust magnet and cable is cheap rubber... brown switch is great for typing while feeling quite cheap and noiser than red.
Corsair other hand is great all around keyboard but I prefer "Quickfire TK" layout more cos keypad is great... Still waiting O-rings shipment from china (I hope that helps because I love to hit them while typing) . Red switch have more quality feel but typing can be troublesome..
I still like the apple, mostly the quality and minimalist design. Quality rubber hose, aluminium frame, white keys really don't need any more lighting than your monitor + keycap quality is great and not printed like in k65 and that silence I think K70 have best "overall" layout and that alu frame while keycap quality isn't great (almost same than in g710+) and leds are gimmick mostly (bad longevity) + overpriced .. With iso layout I could buy better keycaps but well maybe I need to wait "RAW" K70
Biggest win against rubber dome is key registration speed. Mechanical is simply faster than rubber dome even when using 125hz mode. While using k65 bios compatibility switch mode it have same "slow feeling" response like apple scissor rubber dome..
For the record I hate normal membrane keyboards but I love ultra flat scissor keyboards... But the there is big variance to find "good scissor" Like my gf laptop scissor is junk like many others out there... I tried cherry strait + couple apple copys and they were junk when comparing to apple .. My last resort is to try O-rings + cherry mx black or just forget normal mechanical keyboards and try topre switch like this
Comments
Perfect! Thanks for the info!
I've gotten 3x longer life out of my Zowie already. The problems I was having with my Deathadder? Haven't had a single issue like it with my Zowie. I also love that the Zowie is plug and play and doesn't need a ton of bulky software like Razer. I got the Zowie EC-2 Evo because my hands are so tiny I need a small mouse. The EC1-Evo is the same size as a Deathadder. I'm a big big fan of the company. I'll be buying Zowie again for sure. Though really I'll buy anything that isn't Razer. Awful experience with their products & their customer service.
I've now ordered a deathadder (and here's hoping the quality issues don't affect me, it seems like pot luck...) and we'll see if that's any better.
@Decoy, thanks for the heads up on Zowie, I will go straight there if I have issues with the DA!
There are some rubber grips on the side, which help both with comfort and control - it's well thought out and seems to be nicely designed.
However, it's small! Such a shame that there aren't really any manufacturers catering to the larger-handed gamer crowd, at least with the top-end optical sensor that is in the deathadder and G400s. I'll get used to it, though it won't solve the issues with neither my 4th and 5th fingers fitting on the mouse. If it were about 20% larger in both length and width (but not height), it would be perfect.
Thanks to all for your responses
When you've had it for a year or two, very likely windows will start "losing connection" and then finding the mouse again after a few seconds (brief interrupt in mouse movement and then hardware found noise). It seems utterly random and not connected to the movement of your mouse in any way. It even happens when you don't move the mouse. You can tug the cord and it won't cause noticable glitches. Sometimes it won't happen for hours, sometimes it will be every few minutes.
The problem is an easily "damaged" bit of cord inside the mouse. You just open it up, move the cord a few centimeters back into the mouse and close it back up again (the mousewheel and its little springs are a pain in the ass to reseat correctly, so make sure you remember how it goes toghether before you take it appart). Now it works fine; never any problem. I know three people with G400 mice and they've all had exactly this problem and fixed it in exactly this way.
ps. Still using mx518 and i'm happy.
I haven't had any wrist problems, the grip is great, the sensor is hyped and kept company secret atm, and I've never felt something feel more accurate/responsive before.
Its quite nice.
I haven't had to repeat it yet.
As an example, these things are childish.
so ye i was just ranting randomly.
As for keyboards, you are lamenting the garish design, not the mechanical keys. Mechanical keys are superior, because they provide consistent tactile feedback over the years, while rubber domes degrade over the years. It's like squishing jelly bears, no thanks.
Yeah, I had a G500 before as well. I didn't like it and got different mouse.
Also superior to make awful noise, price + size. If people want a good rubber dome (scissor type) keyboard with quality better to buy apple keyboard. And that mind-game which mx switch is for me
Correct about price, incorrect about noise and size. Noise is totally dependent on the type of switch and size is up the manufacturer, size isn't affected by the switch type.
EDIT:
Logitech well, quality wise cheapest of them all... Keycaps are smooth ABS (smudge magnet), really fragile thin plastic keycaps with rough laser printing and small font (have to use led lighting during the evening), plastic frame + glossy dust magnet and cable is cheap rubber... brown switch is great for typing while feeling quite cheap and noiser than red.
Corsair other hand is great all around keyboard but I prefer "Quickfire TK" layout more cos keypad is great... Still waiting O-rings shipment from china (I hope that helps because I love to hit them while typing)
I still like the apple, mostly the quality and minimalist design. Quality rubber hose, aluminium frame, white keys really don't need any more lighting than your monitor + keycap quality is great and not printed like in k65 and that silence
Biggest win against rubber dome is key registration speed. Mechanical is simply faster than rubber dome even when using 125hz mode. While using k65 bios compatibility switch mode it have same "slow feeling" response like apple scissor rubber dome..
For the record I hate normal membrane keyboards but I love ultra flat scissor keyboards... But the there is big variance to find "good scissor" Like my gf laptop scissor is junk like many others out there... I tried cherry strait + couple apple copys and they were junk when comparing to apple