HMG where?

Gorgenapper

I could have sworn that someone did a diff of the Lua files and discovered a HMG. Or was that just a dream?

GhoulofGSG9

There is no HMG in the source yet. Maybe Beta Mod?

Gorgenapper

No idea. All I know is that I read one of the news items on the front page prior to the release of Reinforced, and someone did a diff of the Lua files. There was mention of a HMG with 15dmg (piercing dmg).

Narfwak

There was a reference to it in the code but the heavy rifle was not added in reinforced. It was very unpopular in testing.

Vigilantia

Narfwak wrote: »

There was a reference to it in the code but the heavy rifle was not added in reinforced. It was very unpopular in testing.

Overpowered?

Blarney_Stone

HMG is not a good idea. This isn't NS1, what worked there won't necessarily work here.

Kbpringle

It wasn't necessarily overpowered it just filled a niche that was already taken. Once HMG is unlocked LMG basically becomes worthless as they fill the same role (long range damage). It's very hard to make HMG feel worthwhile or a substantial upgrade without making players carrying an LMG feel worthless.

If you don't have the res for a shotty, no big deal you just adapt and position yourself for longer shooting lanes and expect to do less burst damage. Intelligent play can make up for not having the pres. When it's HMG vs LMG you simply feel ineffective without the HMG.

deathshroud

but the lmg is free so it should be made to feel worthless compared to something a player used res for.

Wisp

deathshroud wrote: »

but the lmg is free so it should be made to feel worthless compared to something a player used res for.

Agreed. I think a late game option for straight damage that isn't a Shotgun is needed. Not everyone wants to play Exo either.

tarquinbb

Vigilantia wrote: »

Narfwak wrote: »

There was a reference to it in the code but the heavy rifle was not added in reinforced. It was very unpopular in testing.

Overpowered?

it's been discussed many times before... the issue is balancing aliens against HMG without making the game stupidly tough for people with LMG. people argue that it worked in NS1, but different times - games used to have 3 lives and no save checkpoint - most gamers these days wouldn't have the patience to play a 'challenging' game.

Mattk50

tarquinbb wrote: »

but different times - games used to have 3 lives and no save checkpoint - most gamers these days wouldn't have the patience to play a 'challenging' game.

This argument is entirely worthless and quite frankly you have just lost all credibility for making it: That said, i think the main problem for the HMG is actually exos.

One suggestion: If HMG had peircing similar to railgun but only did slightly more damage, it doesnt overbuff HMG in 1v skulk engagements but provides some horde control and seige capability.

Vigilantia

Blarney_Stone wrote: »

HMG is not a good idea. This isn't NS1, what worked there won't necessarily work here.

Kbpringle wrote: »

It wasn't necessarily overpowered it just filled a niche that was already taken. Once HMG is unlocked LMG basically becomes worthless as they fill the same role (long range damage). It's very hard to make HMG feel worthwhile or a substantial upgrade without making players carrying an LMG feel worthless.

If you don't have the res for a shotty, no big deal you just adapt and position yourself for longer shooting lanes and expect to do less burst damage. Intelligent play can make up for not having the pres. When it's HMG vs LMG you simply feel ineffective without the HMG.

Well, frankly the Fade was like that for the last... 6 months? Although, granted this was changed 253 so that it was only good at killing marines and less so against structures.

kk20

If hmg did mainly armour damage and virtually no health damage it would fill a role vs higher lifeforms and still be very vulnerable to lower lifeforms.

That being said the flamer does this so probably no need for hmg now.

Apollo10000

Mattk50 wrote: »

tarquinbb wrote: »

but different times - games used to have 3 lives and no save checkpoint - most gamers these days wouldn't have the patience to play a 'challenging' game.

This argument is entirely worthless and quite frankly you have just lost all credibility for making it: That said, i think the main problem for the HMG is actually exos.

One suggestion: If HMG had peircing similar to railgun but only did slightly more damage, it doesnt overbuff HMG in 1v skulk engagements but provides some horde control and seige capability.

He has a point that games were harder in the past, way more harder, but I agree he shouldn't have said in quite general terms modern gamers couldn't handle it, especailly in this game where difficulty is quite high.

There is a core of gamers who do like easy games, hands being held, Call of Duty style games, but there are still games like Dark Souls and Europa Universalis 4 for more challenging gameplay and they're doing fine.

But about the HMG, how about it just giving people more choice about weapons, let's be honest the only relevant gun is the shotgun, when that comes out most of the team gets it also at-least with HMG you can take a few hits and get out, quite of lot of the time the shotgun makes aliens feel like they're being one shotted, and gets frustrating for people.

meatmachine

Just make HMG standard weapon (instead of rifle) for marines at weapons tech 3 (or weapons tech 4 ooooyeaaah)

Could even have a cool nano-transformation animation for the rifle for when w3 is researched

Gorgenapper

If no HMG, I'll settle for increased magazine size upgrade, and depleted uranium rounds to add additional damage (only for shotgun and rifle)

50 -> 75 bullets per magazine
13dmg -> 15 dmg

Voila, you retain the LMG and everyone gets the upgrade and won't feel useless.

Mattk50

the damage upgrade already exists: its called weapon upgrades 1-3. Its pointless to add a redundant version.

Daphisto

One option is to just make the HMG *slightly* more powerful (more damage + larger clip size + longer reload) than the LMG and make it cost 10 or 12 res, so balancing isn't disrupted too much.

With creative thought, UWE can make the HMG work and not disrupt the intended flow of the gameplay.

Narfwak

meatmachine wrote: »

Just make HMG standard weapon (instead of rifle) for marines at weapons tech 3 (or weapons tech 4 ooooyeaaah)

Could even have a cool nano-transformation animation for the rifle for when w3 is researched

Honestly, the rifle kind of is an HMG at L3 weapons already. There's enough threads about how quickly the onos gets shredded in long games as it is. :P

Generally, though, the exosuit minigun is more or less what the HMG was in NS1. Sure, you don't get the dreaded HMG/JP combo of yore, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. There's other weapons in NS2 that weren't in NS1 either (*cough* flamethrower *cough*).

Enhance89

The HMG worked in NS1 because it was the only end game, automatic weapon option. The exo minigun is, at least by my interpretations, the replacement for the HMG. I always associated the HMG and heavy in NS1, even though a non-heavied marine could carry one. I can see an argument either way. Personally, if they don't bring it back, I'll be unphased.

tarquinbb

Mattk50 wrote: »

tarquinbb wrote: »

but different times - games used to have 3 lives and no save checkpoint - most gamers these days wouldn't have the patience to play a 'challenging' game.

This argument is entirely worthless and quite frankly you have just lost all credibility for making it: That said, i think the main problem for the HMG is actually exos.

One suggestion: If HMG had peircing similar to railgun but only did slightly more damage, it doesnt overbuff HMG in 1v skulk engagements but provides some horde control and seige capability.

...

99% of games these days are a piece of cake complete with an intimate favour compared to older generation games. why is this? because it was decided by hundreds or even thousands of researchers that appealing to a wider market (making games easier) was a better choice.

you are one against thousands, and i doubt you've actually done any research.

from my perspective i want games to be challenging like the old days - but i'm being pragmatic - those days are long gone.

Nazo

If you want HMG's play NS2:c (when its updated for 255 that is)

(I totally ment for that to rhyme btw)

coolitic

Even though I like it when marines turtle, adding an HMG would just be too much as it would cause extremely unfair advantage.

coolitic

Nazo wrote: »

If you want HMG's play NS2:c (when its updated for 255 that is)

(I totally ment for that to rhyme btw)

What rhyme?

BentRing

coolitic wrote: »

Even though I like it when marines turtle, adding an HMG would just be too much as it would cause extremely unfair advantage.

*insert Fry squinting meme here*


IMO the marine turtle is by far the worst part of this game, regardless of which team I'm on.


On topic, it would be kinda neat if the marines LMG would level up in looks as the upgrades came. Imagine when the power failed and the NS1 HMG sized rifle warped back to the pea shooter you start out with.

ritualsacrifice

Narfwak wrote: »

meatmachine wrote: »

Just make HMG standard weapon (instead of rifle) for marines at weapons tech 3 (or weapons tech 4 ooooyeaaah)

Could even have a cool nano-transformation animation for the rifle for when w3 is researched

Honestly, the rifle kind of is an HMG at L3 weapons already. There's enough threads about how quickly the onos gets shredded in long games as it is. :P

Generally, though, the exosuit minigun is more or less what the HMG was in NS1. Sure, you don't get the dreaded HMG/JP combo of yore, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. There's other weapons in NS2 that weren't in NS1 either (*cough* flamethrower *cough*).

This has less to do with weapon upgrades and more to do with the fact that the Onos is pretty squishy and doesn't have the ability to charge anymore. I don't really know who's idea it was to make charge an "upgrade," or what their reasoning is... but I feel like that is one of the main reason onii die so quickly now.

Evil_bOb1

From what people are saying I picked this up. It could be a fancy thing to see weapons change with the upgrades. The lvl 0 LMG becomes a HMG at Lvl 3 yet with same stats. Its just a model representation of what weapon level you're on. This would bring some work if it's to be done with all the weapons though.

kk20

Hmg had a bigger mag

Blarney_Stone

ritualsacrifice wrote: »

Narfwak wrote: »

meatmachine wrote: »

Just make HMG standard weapon (instead of rifle) for marines at weapons tech 3 (or weapons tech 4 ooooyeaaah)

Could even have a cool nano-transformation animation for the rifle for when w3 is researched

Honestly, the rifle kind of is an HMG at L3 weapons already. There's enough threads about how quickly the onos gets shredded in long games as it is. :P

Generally, though, the exosuit minigun is more or less what the HMG was in NS1. Sure, you don't get the dreaded HMG/JP combo of yore, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. There's other weapons in NS2 that weren't in NS1 either (*cough* flamethrower *cough*).

This has less to do with weapon upgrades and more to do with the fact that the Onos is pretty squishy and doesn't have the ability to charge anymore. I don't really know who's idea it was to make charge an "upgrade," or what their reasoning is... but I feel like that is one of the main reason onii die so quickly now.

The Onos is actually not too bad when it has the upgrades, but it isn't even worth playing if it hasn't been upgraded. Seriously, anyone who tries that will die in like .5 seconds. Agree with you on charge, don't see why that needed to become an upgrade. Boneshield + stomp is enough for the onos, skulks and lerks only have 2 upgrades and it works fine.