You can even jump over a Onos and avoid the 1st hit, im pretty sure I could get 2 jumps in with more practice.
Vid or it didn't happen.
Srsly, it is a mechanic that allows you to react on an attack instead of just standing there and letting the skulk kill you, if you messed up your aim in the 2 seconds he needed to engage you.
And checking corner instead of running in the room? ... Stop, wait, listen? interact with the commander ?
If you get in these situation, you probably forgot something along the way.
No reason to save for fade instead of going lerk anymore
It obvious that vortex and programmable mouse is the uber trends... Everybody want to do that.
Devs wanted ppl not to use mousewheel because of pistol script.
Now we got "supa macroed fade + vortex on site"... great.
Even marines. I've had a kill on some marine that had his back on a wall. He couldn't stop moving as the routine wouldn't stop. That one was funny as he was moving left-tight and backward but blocked by the wall. How dumb ?
I don't think I've played a single round on a server that runs NS2Stats since Reinforced came out. I'm not sure I'd put too much stock in those numbers as the sample size is not large enough nor have the changes been around long enough to accurately judge stats based on them. I'm still seeing servers with as many as 1/4-1/2 of the players being green and not knowing basic mechanics much less the recent changes to the game.
Things like that should be "by default". Especially for a game that need these stats. unbelievable.
UWE has internal stats system, and every single round ever played is recorded into it with 100 percent sample size. NS2stats is unfortunately hosted more often than not on 24player servers where data can be skewed towards one direction.
Can anyone explain to me what is so realistic about a skulk killing a marine in armor in 2 bites, and so unrealistic about a marine wearing a powered suit and jumping?
The game is about teamwork, 2 skulks will easily kill a marine, the same as 2 marines will easily kill a skulk... But it takes ALOT of skill on either side to always win a one on one.
it's not about numbers only, 2 skulks that coordinate well and flank should be able to take 2 marines roughly half the time. 3 marines should be able to take 3 skulks in almost any defensive situation. 1 skulk should be able to take 1 marine the majority of the time if they get the drop on them and nearly never if they don't. positioning matters. 1 v 1 should go to the melee class if the engagement starts in melee range.
Can anyone explain to me what is so realistic about a skulk killing a marine in armor in 2 bites, and so unrealistic about a marine wearing a powered suit and jumping?
The game is about teamwork, 2 skulks will easily kill a marine, the same as 2 marines will easily kill a skulk... But it takes ALOT of skill on either side to always win a one on one.
it's not about numbers only, 2 skulks that coordinate well and flank should be able to take 2 marines roughly half the time. 3 marines should be able to take 3 skulks in almost any defensive situation. 1 skulk should be able to take 1 marine the majority of the time if they get the drop on them and nearly never if they don't. positioning matters. 1 v 1 should go to the melee class if the engagement starts in melee range.
This is an excellent post. Well articulated. This is how I feel the game used to be. I used to be a much better skulk than I was marine, now I can kill skulks all day, and I've gone back to being a cannon fodder skulk just waiting to lerk.
I die over and over again as a marine, many many times vs a skulk one on one.... I have not got on the forums complaining about nerfing the other team... I just try and learn.
I do not agree a skulk should kill a marine on one on one when the marine can aim better. Get the first bite sure, but just get a free kill because you hid in a corner? No.
I die over and over again as a marine, many many times vs a skulk one on one.... I have not got on the forums complaining about nerfing the other team... I just try and learn.
I do not agree a skulk should kill a marine on one on one when the marine can aim better. Get the first bite sure, but just get a free kill because you hid in a corner? No.
That's precisely the point of the game. I mean you have vents and lot of stuff on the ceiling. Otherwise it is like Counter Strike. I believe many NS player just don't want to play CS (or COD ans such) as they probably fled from "dumb land".
-Ranged one on one is supposed to be own by Marines. If a Skulk can't sneak, and is uncovered most of the time, he deserve to get a "lock on", shot at, and killed.
-Close combat one on one is supposed to be own by Alien. If the alien gets there, he should be able to taste the exquisite marine cheek as the guy was not aware and / or smart enough to defuse the ambush. Period!
It would be great to see people get into that instead of whining and compare NS to some classic "war/terro" game (by reflex or not).
Skulk engages over distance = dead Skulk -> NO
Skulk engages over distance = difficult to win -> YES
Marine got ambushed by Skulk = Dead marine -> NO
Marine got ambushed by Skulk = difficult to win -> YES
I simply don't get why people want such a skill-less binary mechanic instead of a minor advantage.
If you ambush as a Skulk, you are in a very good position. You don't need to get the kill gifted to you. If the marine is better than you, he should win. Even if you ambushed him. Come on, how much skill do you think does it take to hide in a corner and hope the marine isn't checking it? This is as skill-based as a round of dice.
Also don't start with "check every corner". Everybody who plays NS2 more than a few hours know, that this isn't practicable at any time of the match. There are times where you don't check a corner. And getting punished this hard just is boring design. If he ambushes you, he has already an advantage and you have a handicap. This is enough. The kill goes to the one that has more skill.
Skulk engages over distance = dead Skulk -> NO
Skulk engages over distance = difficult to win -> YES
If the skulk use the pillars, crates, and stuff only. Otherwise in a clear alley : 1one1 = YES he should die.
The only kind of situation that it should be NO is in some place like Tram/hub and 3 on 2 marines. Numbers tend to naturally change the odds. Still, any decent skulk against decent marine will use anything to stop bullets in Tram/hub.
Marine got ambushed by Skulk = Dead marine -> NO
Marine got ambushed by Skulk = difficult to win -> YES
I simply don't get why people want such a skill-less binary mechanic instead of a minor advantage.
I'm not talking about the guy who waits in a room for an hour. He's not even a player for me. i'm talking about the situation in which the skulk is sneaking in the room when a marine is already there, or seconds before the marine gets in. It's not skill less.
You have to know the map and use every corner. No sound. To find where the prey is looking at and move accordingly. To take your time in a countdown situation. The guy isn't gonna stay here forever is it ? It's just a different set of skills. The whole point of NS.
If you ambush as a Skulk, you are in a very good position. You don't need to get the kill gifted to you. If the marine is better than you, he should win.
Better ? No, because he got in an ambush situation in the first place (knowingly or not). Proper marines get in position properly and / or are backuped by teammate. Even if you're alone building an extractor you look regularly all possible corners you can during that time. You even try to get any advantage possible like jumping from the rail (ex Ventilation) on the extractor to build it. Far easier to see things coming and you have the high ground. With strafe jump let's just say it's too easy.
Even if you ambushed him. Come on, how much skill do you think does it take to hide in a corner and hope the marine isn't checking it? This is as skill-based as a round of dice.
Also don't start with "check every corner". Everybody who plays NS2 more than a few hours know, that this isn't practicable at any time of the match. There are times where you don't check a corner. And getting punished this hard just is boring design. If he ambushes you, he has already an advantage and you have a handicap. This is enough. The kill goes to the one that has more skill.
In any match you know (if commander isn't dumb) very soon where the aliens are starting from. So you know where the first engagements will take place. So there are rooms you can run in. For the next rooms you have to be more and more cautious. Where is it difficult ?
In mid game. Look at your map... Any decent marine should do that regularly. You know where it's hot and where it's cold. Commander is also a good information source. Engagements also. A fade ball is 3 fades in ONE place. Some do use brain, some don't. Let'em die.
What is skill for you in a strategic game ? Aim ? Strafe jump ? Come on... strafe jump... It's a so low skilled maneuver that i doesn't look serious at all. And programmable mouse compliant.
I'm not against balance. But not that way, it's just lame. Everything is against strafe jump especially lag issue.
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
This is correct, but unfortunately not the case at all in public play.
The alien strength lies in outnumbering the enemy in order to dodge bullets efficiently. You need to close distance in a rotation with your team.
Skulk 1 draws fire > Skulk 1 dodges / moves behind cover while Skulk 2 is closing the gap > Marines switch onto Skulk 2 > Skulk 1 closes the gap again.
I rarely see this happening in public. It's usually just "HURR DURR, just gonna go alone into this room while jumping in a straight line right to the marine".
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
Bicsum answered for the pub
For a 6vs6 game it depends on deployment. If marines go :
*1/3/1 you have 2 lone guys (probably caping / harassing rts.
*2/1/2 you have 1 guys always alone, mostly a sneaker for PG and base builder. Usually the two couples suffer casualties. And half the time it's one marine waiting for reinforcement.
You have plenty of time for creating 1on1 situation.
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
Bicsum answered for the pub
For a 6vs6 game it depends on deployment. If marines go :
*1/3/1 you have 2 lone guys (probably caping / harassing rts.
*2/1/2 you have 1 guys always alone, mostly a sneaker for PG and base builder. Usually the two couples suffer casualties. And half the time it's one marine waiting for reinforcement.
You have plenty of time for creating 1on1 situation.
I answered for the pub?
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but it doesn't matter if it's pub or comp. You can only overcome good aim and positioning with clever alien team play.
Of course it's situational, but engaging a marine in a 1on1 should still be avoided. There is always a risk of dying, which you just don't have to take. Most of the times you are better off biting an rt to pull that 1 marine back, keeping him busy.
The 2/2 split should also be countered one after the other. You don't (or shouldn't) split your alien team into two 2on2's, but attack as a whole team on one side.
Ideally you would have the two 2 men teams always coming asynchron.
The whole point of 2/1/2 split is to attack two res towers at the same time. A split alien team will probably lose both sides. A combined attack will save one side more likely and also with less casualties, which gives you more time to clear the other side.
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
This is correct, but unfortunately not the case at all in public play.
The alien strength lies in outnumbering the enemy in order to dodge bullets efficiently. You need to close distance in a rotation with your team.
Skulk 1 draws fire > Skulk 1 dodges / moves behind cover while Skulk 2 is closing the gap > Marines switch onto Skulk 2 > Skulk 1 closes the gap again.
I rarely see this happening in public. It's usually just "HURR DURR, just gonna go alone into this room while jumping in a straight line right to the marine".
Well that's the first problem currently. You need to outmanouver/outskill marines just to get in to the melee range, and after that the true fight begins and u lose unless u outskill the marine second time. Marine can "freeroll" the first stage of the fight because he cannot die in that stage but the skulk can. If the devs want to make the skulk such a slow fatty i hope they would at least make him deadly, give aliens back focus from NS1 so when they do get to the melee range they actually hurt the marines instead of tickle them and watch them frog leaping away. "focus" increases ur attack dmg by 40% and slows ur attack rate by 60% so skulk actually kills a marine with 1 hit if he has no armor, and if he has full armor with armor 1 u need 2 well aimed bites. The 60% attack rate decrease makes sure u have to aim those bites well because u cant bite that often. Nerfing skulks and buffing rines was a stupid way to try balance the game since u spend most of ur alien time as skulk in average so that makes playing the alien side far less enjoyable. Instead u should make skulk as powerful as u can within reason, and nerf the higher lifeforms/alien economy or whatever, but don't make the core gameplay(skulking) painful/unenjoyable.
With focus u could actually do something that marines do all the time: Get a kill and not die yourself. When u go attack any marine that isnt alone as skulk in ns2 and get a kill u most likely die urself too because killing takes too long and skulks are so slow in NS2 atm that escape is rarely an option so the other marine/s kill u after that. But marines can constantly shoot skulks from distance without ever even putting themselves in danger. In ns1 u could actually leap in a group of marines and focuskill that 1 marine with low armor and leap away before those 5 marines would even realize what happened. So u could actually "own" as skulk if u had enough skill. In NS2 that's not possible, u can do "good" and have positive stats, even like 20-5 if u are really good but u can't "own".u can't probably go 30-0 as skulk even if u were best player in the world, but as marine semi-skilled people do it all the time.
As soon as we are after 25 minutes aliens come out big time. Between 25 - 60 minutes aliens have an average win chance of 68%.
Well, given in most cases that if the game has gone to 25+ minutes, one side has won. If it's marines, they can typicaly end the game quickly as aliens get much weaker with each hive down.
But aliens can have four tech points, covered the map in infestation, and if the marines are organized and want to turtle, it's an absolute bitch breaking them. It'll break eventually, but its a hell of a lot harder to take down endgame one tech point marines then aliens.
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
This is correct, but unfortunately not the case at all in public play.
The alien strength lies in outnumbering the enemy in order to dodge bullets efficiently. You need to close distance in a rotation with your team.
Skulk 1 draws fire > Skulk 1 dodges / moves behind cover while Skulk 2 is closing the gap > Marines switch onto Skulk 2 > Skulk 1 closes the gap again.
I rarely see this happening in public. It's usually just "HURR DURR, just gonna go alone into this room while jumping in a straight line right to the marine".
Well that's the first problem currently. You need to outmanouver/outskill marines just to get in to the melee range, and after that the true fight begins and u lose unless u outskill the marine second time. Marine can "freeroll" the first stage of the fight because he cannot die in that stage but the skulk can. If the devs want to make the skulk such a slow fatty i hope they would at least make him deadly, give aliens back focus from NS1 so when they do get to the melee range they actually hurt the marines instead of tickle them and watch them frog leaping away. "focus" increases ur attack dmg by 40% and slows ur attack rate by 60% so skulk actually kills a marine with 1 hit if he has no armor, and if he has full armor with armor 1 u need 2 well aimed bites. The 60% attack rate decrease makes sure u have to aim those bites well because u cant bite that often. Nerfing skulks and buffing rines was a stupid way to try balance the game since u spend most of ur alien time as skulk in average so that makes playing the alien side far less enjoyable. Instead u should make skulk as powerful as u can within reason, and nerf the higher lifeforms/alien economy or whatever, but don't make the core gameplay(skulking) painful/unenjoyable.
With focus u could actually do something that marines do all the time: Get a kill and not die yourself. When u go attack any marine that isnt alone as skulk in ns2 and get a kill u most likely die urself too because killing takes too long and skulks are so slow in NS2 atm that escape is rarely an option so the other marine/s kill u after that. But marines can constantly shoot skulks from distance without ever even putting themselves in danger. In ns1 u could actually leap in a group of marines and focuskill that 1 marine with low armor and leap away before those 5 marines would even realize what happened. So u could actually "own" as skulk if u had enough skill. In NS2 that's not possible, u can do "good" and have positive stats, even like 20-5 if u are really good but u can't "own".u can't probably go 30-0 as skulk even if u were best player in the world, but as marine semi-skilled people do it all the time.
I understand what you are saying, but the the strafe jumping is less of a problem if you engage from different sides.
The skulk is not about owning the marine team, it is a harass and scout unit. You are not supposed to kill the whole marine team all by yourself.
Also, I'm not against the idea of focus, but what exactly is skillful about leaping in and biting once for a kill?
Can anyone explain to me what is so realistic about a skulk killing a marine in armor in 2 bites, and so unrealistic about a marine wearing a powered suit and jumping?
The game is about teamwork, 2 skulks will easily kill a marine, the same as 2 marines will easily kill a skulk... But it takes ALOT of skill on either side to always win a one on one.
Agreed. The problem is when people come from other games that they have been playing where they have been rambo'ing their way to victory, rather than using teamwork tactics.
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
Bicsum answered for the pub
For a 6vs6 game it depends on deployment. If marines go :
*1/3/1 you have 2 lone guys (probably caping / harassing rts.
*2/1/2 you have 1 guys always alone, mostly a sneaker for PG and base builder. Usually the two couples suffer casualties. And half the time it's one marine waiting for reinforcement.
You have plenty of time for creating 1on1 situation.
I answered for the pub?
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but it doesn't matter if it's pub or comp. You can only overcome good aim and positioning with clever alien team play.
Of course it's situational, but engaging a marine in a 1on1 should still be avoided. There is always a risk of dying, which you just don't have to take. Most of the times you are better off biting an rt to pull that 1 marine back, keeping him busy.
The 2/2 split should also be countered one after the other. You don't (or shouldn't) split your alien team into two 2on2's, but attack as a whole team on one side.
Ideally you would have the two 2 men teams always coming asynchron.
The whole point of 2/1/2 split is to attack two res towers at the same time. A split alien team will probably lose both sides. A combined attack will save one side more likely and also with less casualties, which gives you more time to clear the other side.
I didn't say that it should be a equivalent distribution on alien side. Or counter tactics for what it's worth. One way or another you ultimately get 1on1 engagements. With 6 players, whatever the "split" chosen, it's usual.
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
This is correct, but unfortunately not the case at all in public play.
The alien strength lies in outnumbering the enemy in order to dodge bullets efficiently. You need to close distance in a rotation with your team.
Skulk 1 draws fire > Skulk 1 dodges / moves behind cover while Skulk 2 is closing the gap > Marines switch onto Skulk 2 > Skulk 1 closes the gap again.
I rarely see this happening in public. It's usually just "HURR DURR, just gonna go alone into this room while jumping in a straight line right to the marine".
Well that's the first problem currently. You need to outmanouver/outskill marines just to get in to the melee range, and after that the true fight begins and u lose unless u outskill the marine second time. Marine can "freeroll" the first stage of the fight because he cannot die in that stage but the skulk can. If the devs want to make the skulk such a slow fatty i hope they would at least make him deadly, give aliens back focus from NS1 so when they do get to the melee range they actually hurt the marines instead of tickle them and watch them frog leaping away. "focus" increases ur attack dmg by 40% and slows ur attack rate by 60% so skulk actually kills a marine with 1 hit if he has no armor, and if he has full armor with armor 1 u need 2 well aimed bites. The 60% attack rate decrease makes sure u have to aim those bites well because u cant bite that often. Nerfing skulks and buffing rines was a stupid way to try balance the game since u spend most of ur alien time as skulk in average so that makes playing the alien side far less enjoyable. Instead u should make skulk as powerful as u can within reason, and nerf the higher lifeforms/alien economy or whatever, but don't make the core gameplay(skulking) painful/unenjoyable.
With focus u could actually do something that marines do all the time: Get a kill and not die yourself. When u go attack any marine that isnt alone as skulk in ns2 and get a kill u most likely die urself too because killing takes too long and skulks are so slow in NS2 atm that escape is rarely an option so the other marine/s kill u after that. But marines can constantly shoot skulks from distance without ever even putting themselves in danger. In ns1 u could actually leap in a group of marines and focuskill that 1 marine with low armor and leap away before those 5 marines would even realize what happened. So u could actually "own" as skulk if u had enough skill. In NS2 that's not possible, u can do "good" and have positive stats, even like 20-5 if u are really good but u can't "own".u can't probably go 30-0 as skulk even if u were best player in the world, but as marine semi-skilled people do it all the time.
I understand what you are saying, but the the strafe jumping is less of a problem if you engage from different sides.
The skulk is not about owning the marine team, it is a harass and scout unit. You are not supposed to kill the whole marine team all by yourself.
Also, I'm not against the idea of focus, but what exactly is skillful about leaping in and biting once for a kill?
Well u need skill to track ur target which is missing his armor, landing the bite while in high speed leap, and escaping to right direction. Also leaping away as planned if u missed ur bite(surprisingly hard to do). With focus ur aim/skill is rewarded with similiar way like the marines has it.
The skill ceiling of skulk is just way lower currently than it is on a marine. Too often as skulk there comes a situation where u died because there was nothing u could have done but as marine u usually could have just aimed better. That's called "anti-fun" by some game developers :P
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
This is correct, but unfortunately not the case at all in public play.
The alien strength lies in outnumbering the enemy in order to dodge bullets efficiently. You need to close distance in a rotation with your team.
Skulk 1 draws fire > Skulk 1 dodges / moves behind cover while Skulk 2 is closing the gap > Marines switch onto Skulk 2 > Skulk 1 closes the gap again.
I rarely see this happening in public. It's usually just "HURR DURR, just gonna go alone into this room while jumping in a straight line right to the marine".
Well that's the first problem currently. You need to outmanouver/outskill marines just to get in to the melee range, and after that the true fight begins and u lose unless u outskill the marine second time. Marine can "freeroll" the first stage of the fight because he cannot die in that stage but the skulk can. If the devs want to make the skulk such a slow fatty i hope they would at least make him deadly, give aliens back focus from NS1 so when they do get to the melee range they actually hurt the marines instead of tickle them and watch them frog leaping away. "focus" increases ur attack dmg by 40% and slows ur attack rate by 60% so skulk actually kills a marine with 1 hit if he has no armor, and if he has full armor with armor 1 u need 2 well aimed bites. The 60% attack rate decrease makes sure u have to aim those bites well because u cant bite that often. Nerfing skulks and buffing rines was a stupid way to try balance the game since u spend most of ur alien time as skulk in average so that makes playing the alien side far less enjoyable. Instead u should make skulk as powerful as u can within reason, and nerf the higher lifeforms/alien economy or whatever, but don't make the core gameplay(skulking) painful/unenjoyable.
With focus u could actually do something that marines do all the time: Get a kill and not die yourself. When u go attack any marine that isnt alone as skulk in ns2 and get a kill u most likely die urself too because killing takes too long and skulks are so slow in NS2 atm that escape is rarely an option so the other marine/s kill u after that. But marines can constantly shoot skulks from distance without ever even putting themselves in danger. In ns1 u could actually leap in a group of marines and focuskill that 1 marine with low armor and leap away before those 5 marines would even realize what happened. So u could actually "own" as skulk if u had enough skill. In NS2 that's not possible, u can do "good" and have positive stats, even like 20-5 if u are really good but u can't "own".u can't probably go 30-0 as skulk even if u were best player in the world, but as marine semi-skilled people do it all the time.
I understand what you are saying, but the the strafe jumping is less of a problem if you engage from different sides.
The skulk is not about owning the marine team, it is a harass and scout unit. You are not supposed to kill the whole marine team all by yourself.
Also, I'm not against the idea of focus, but what exactly is skillful about leaping in and biting once for a kill?
Well u need skill to track ur target which is missing his armor, landing the bite while in high speed leap, and escaping to right direction. Also leaping away as planned if u missed ur bite(surprisingly hard to do). With focus ur aim/skill is rewarded with similiar way like the marines has it.
The skill ceiling of skulk is just way lower currently than it is on a marine. Too often as skulk there comes a situation where u died because there was nothing u could have done but as marine u usually could have just aimed better. That's called "anti-fun" by some game developers :P
A large part of skulk (/alien) skill is proper team play and timing. It is the reason you feel that skill ceiling is lower, because you won't find the required team play in pub games.
As a marine it is much easier to play as a team. You don't have to communicate at all to play with your team mate effectively.
The marine hopping I can deal with. It only frustrates me against a really good player.
What I can't deal with is jetpackers using the new fade. They practically have more fuel than you do energy, and once they touch the ground they can recharge it about as fast as you do energy and be in the air before you know it. Combine this with the fact that blink doesn't "throw" you as far when you tap it and you get a frustrating dance where half the time you end up dropping like a stone or sitting on the floor while the marine flies away laughing. Even worse when the marine can aim and dodge.
The marine hopping I can deal with. It only frustrates me against a really good player.
What I can't deal with is jetpackers using the new fade. They practically have more fuel than you do energy, and once they touch the ground they can recharge it about as fast as you do energy and be in the air before you know it. Combine this with the fact that blink doesn't "throw" you as far when you tap it and you get a frustrating dance where half the time you end up dropping like a stone or sitting on the floor while the marine flies away laughing. Even worse when the marine can aim and dodge.
The other day I 1v1'd a jetpack/shottie marine in crevice on Summit as a skulk. Didn't matter my KDR was so low it was almost non-existant, I felt like the best player in NS2 at that moment. Needless to say I was in the top 3 on the team for kills so our swift and horrible defeat was guaranteed.
This brings up another point though, almost every game in a pub I've played have been total steamrolls in one direction or the other. It's difficult to balance a game for pubs when one person can and almost always does, make a huge difference. Whether it's a marine that regularily ices skulks three at a time or a lerk that spores and needles marines in one swoop and finishes them off with bites on the return. A player on one team that can reliably hold his own against a small group will always assure victory for the team. It has been a long time since I played a match that was won through clever feints and actual tactics instead of one person simply carrying the team with a 10-1 KDR.
Now this isn't some pro-casual anti-competetive player rant. The only way to get better is to play against people who are better than you and because of that I've definitely improved on my skulking and chasing jumping beans. However because of this though any pub match stat recording is subject to severe doubt to even being pointless. The only useful stat recording should be from strictly competetive matches with stats for each lifeform/weapon/upgrade used. Inflating numbers with pub stats is going to do nothing but mask or exaggerate potential problems in balance.
Can anyone explain to me what is so realistic about a skulk killing a marine in armor in 2 bites, and so unrealistic about a marine wearing a powered suit and jumping?
The game is about teamwork, 2 skulks will easily kill a marine, the same as 2 marines will easily kill a skulk... But it takes ALOT of skill on either side to always win a one on one.
Why doesn't anyone take into account the fact that in almost every encounter there are more aliens than there are marines. The aliens are the ones who decide when to engage and with how many players, not the marines. If the majority of the marine team is in one place and you cannot overwhelm them, attack somewhere else.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
Wait what? No one questioned this? Really?
No, every encounter does not have more aliens than marines. Presuming the teams are even, that's not a thing. 1v1 encounter balance is stupidly important as one of the aliens best means of keeping the marines scattered is to harass backfield RT's, which tends to be responded to by one marine. Even if you outsmart them, bait them into the room, and get the jump on them it's *still* a 50/50 because of the boosted jump. Adding on to this encounter presuming skulks and base marines only, the marines gain an edge for every unit added to the encounter. A group of 4 marines against 4 skulks presuming equal skill has the marines above a 50/50. This is a big reason why large servers swing way out of balance and marine turtles are really hard to break.
The design principle has also been completely reversed in how these units function. To assert that the current state of skulk vs rine isn't bad isn't just and sketchy assertion about balance that could easily be argued against, it's also an assertion that drastic and contradictory change is just fine for UWE to make on a post-release game and doesn't hurt the game, which is also really easy to argue against.
Why not give Aliens arrow indicators that track around the edges of the screen based on the direction of nearbyish enemies? This would allow skulks to track way better in melee situations. Might give them a "hivemind" sort of feel to them that marines wouldn't have. Think of the objective icons in... Battlefield 3? I think it is...
I die over and over again as a marine, many many times vs a skulk one on one.... I have not got on the forums complaining about nerfing the other team... I just try and learn.
I do not agree a skulk should kill a marine on one on one when the marine can aim better. Get the first bite sure, but just get a free kill because you hid in a corner? No.
Comments
That precisely the point of many complaints. you shouldn't 'haaaave' to do it. Plus on some competitive server it can be "banned". Back to ugly land.
And checking corner instead of running in the room? ... Stop, wait, listen? interact with the commander ?
If you get in these situation, you probably forgot something along the way.
It obvious that vortex and programmable mouse is the uber trends... Everybody want to do that.
Devs wanted ppl not to use mousewheel because of pistol script.
Now we got "supa macroed fade + vortex on site"... great.
Even marines. I've had a kill on some marine that had his back on a wall. He couldn't stop moving as the routine wouldn't stop. That one was funny as he was moving left-tight and backward but blocked by the wall. How dumb ?
Things like that should be "by default". Especially for a game that need these stats. unbelievable.
A lot of things are upside down... Unfortunately.
I do not agree a skulk should kill a marine on one on one when the marine can aim better. Get the first bite sure, but just get a free kill because you hid in a corner? No.
That's precisely the point of the game. I mean you have vents and lot of stuff on the ceiling. Otherwise it is like Counter Strike. I believe many NS player just don't want to play CS (or COD ans such) as they probably fled from "dumb land".
-Ranged one on one is supposed to be own by Marines. If a Skulk can't sneak, and is uncovered most of the time, he deserve to get a "lock on", shot at, and killed.
-Close combat one on one is supposed to be own by Alien. If the alien gets there, he should be able to taste the exquisite marine cheek as the guy was not aware and / or smart enough to defuse the ambush. Period!
It would be great to see people get into that instead of whining and compare NS to some classic "war/terro" game (by reflex or not).
Skulk engages over distance = dead Skulk -> NO
Skulk engages over distance = difficult to win -> YES
Marine got ambushed by Skulk = Dead marine -> NO
Marine got ambushed by Skulk = difficult to win -> YES
I simply don't get why people want such a skill-less binary mechanic instead of a minor advantage.
If you ambush as a Skulk, you are in a very good position. You don't need to get the kill gifted to you. If the marine is better than you, he should win. Even if you ambushed him. Come on, how much skill do you think does it take to hide in a corner and hope the marine isn't checking it? This is as skill-based as a round of dice.
Also don't start with "check every corner". Everybody who plays NS2 more than a few hours know, that this isn't practicable at any time of the match. There are times where you don't check a corner. And getting punished this hard just is boring design. If he ambushes you, he has already an advantage and you have a handicap. This is enough. The kill goes to the one that has more skill.
Thankfully mods once again save the day:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=175139523&searchtext=
When i play alien, i like to play using alien vision as funny enough, it makes me feel like an alien, lol
I don't see it as cheating myself.
Some servers don't allow these mods but quite a few do so give them a whirl, you won't regret it
If the skulk use the pillars, crates, and stuff only. Otherwise in a clear alley : 1one1 = YES he should die.
The only kind of situation that it should be NO is in some place like Tram/hub and 3 on 2 marines. Numbers tend to naturally change the odds. Still, any decent skulk against decent marine will use anything to stop bullets in Tram/hub.
I'm not talking about the guy who waits in a room for an hour. He's not even a player for me. i'm talking about the situation in which the skulk is sneaking in the room when a marine is already there, or seconds before the marine gets in. It's not skill less.
You have to know the map and use every corner. No sound. To find where the prey is looking at and move accordingly. To take your time in a countdown situation. The guy isn't gonna stay here forever is it ? It's just a different set of skills. The whole point of NS.
Better ? No, because he got in an ambush situation in the first place (knowingly or not). Proper marines get in position properly and / or are backuped by teammate. Even if you're alone building an extractor you look regularly all possible corners you can during that time. You even try to get any advantage possible like jumping from the rail (ex Ventilation) on the extractor to build it. Far easier to see things coming and you have the high ground. With strafe jump let's just say it's too easy.
In any match you know (if commander isn't dumb) very soon where the aliens are starting from. So you know where the first engagements will take place. So there are rooms you can run in. For the next rooms you have to be more and more cautious. Where is it difficult ?
In mid game. Look at your map... Any decent marine should do that regularly. You know where it's hot and where it's cold. Commander is also a good information source. Engagements also. A fade ball is 3 fades in ONE place. Some do use brain, some don't. Let'em die.
What is skill for you in a strategic game ? Aim ? Strafe jump ? Come on... strafe jump... It's a so low skilled maneuver that i doesn't look serious at all. And programmable mouse compliant.
I'm not against balance. But not that way, it's just lame. Everything is against strafe jump especially lag issue.
This is all extremely basic. Arguing about 1on1 situations will lead nowhere.
This is correct, but unfortunately not the case at all in public play.
The alien strength lies in outnumbering the enemy in order to dodge bullets efficiently. You need to close distance in a rotation with your team.
Skulk 1 draws fire > Skulk 1 dodges / moves behind cover while Skulk 2 is closing the gap > Marines switch onto Skulk 2 > Skulk 1 closes the gap again.
I rarely see this happening in public. It's usually just "HURR DURR, just gonna go alone into this room while jumping in a straight line right to the marine".
Bicsum answered for the pub
For a 6vs6 game it depends on deployment. If marines go :
*1/3/1 you have 2 lone guys (probably caping / harassing rts.
*2/1/2 you have 1 guys always alone, mostly a sneaker for PG and base builder. Usually the two couples suffer casualties. And half the time it's one marine waiting for reinforcement.
You have plenty of time for creating 1on1 situation.
I answered for the pub?
Maybe I misunderstood your post, but it doesn't matter if it's pub or comp. You can only overcome good aim and positioning with clever alien team play.
Of course it's situational, but engaging a marine in a 1on1 should still be avoided. There is always a risk of dying, which you just don't have to take. Most of the times you are better off biting an rt to pull that 1 marine back, keeping him busy.
The 2/2 split should also be countered one after the other. You don't (or shouldn't) split your alien team into two 2on2's, but attack as a whole team on one side.
Ideally you would have the two 2 men teams always coming asynchron.
The whole point of 2/1/2 split is to attack two res towers at the same time. A split alien team will probably lose both sides. A combined attack will save one side more likely and also with less casualties, which gives you more time to clear the other side.
Well that's the first problem currently. You need to outmanouver/outskill marines just to get in to the melee range, and after that the true fight begins and u lose unless u outskill the marine second time. Marine can "freeroll" the first stage of the fight because he cannot die in that stage but the skulk can. If the devs want to make the skulk such a slow fatty i hope they would at least make him deadly, give aliens back focus from NS1 so when they do get to the melee range they actually hurt the marines instead of tickle them and watch them frog leaping away. "focus" increases ur attack dmg by 40% and slows ur attack rate by 60% so skulk actually kills a marine with 1 hit if he has no armor, and if he has full armor with armor 1 u need 2 well aimed bites. The 60% attack rate decrease makes sure u have to aim those bites well because u cant bite that often. Nerfing skulks and buffing rines was a stupid way to try balance the game since u spend most of ur alien time as skulk in average so that makes playing the alien side far less enjoyable. Instead u should make skulk as powerful as u can within reason, and nerf the higher lifeforms/alien economy or whatever, but don't make the core gameplay(skulking) painful/unenjoyable.
With focus u could actually do something that marines do all the time: Get a kill and not die yourself. When u go attack any marine that isnt alone as skulk in ns2 and get a kill u most likely die urself too because killing takes too long and skulks are so slow in NS2 atm that escape is rarely an option so the other marine/s kill u after that. But marines can constantly shoot skulks from distance without ever even putting themselves in danger. In ns1 u could actually leap in a group of marines and focuskill that 1 marine with low armor and leap away before those 5 marines would even realize what happened. So u could actually "own" as skulk if u had enough skill. In NS2 that's not possible, u can do "good" and have positive stats, even like 20-5 if u are really good but u can't "own".u can't probably go 30-0 as skulk even if u were best player in the world, but as marine semi-skilled people do it all the time.
Well, given in most cases that if the game has gone to 25+ minutes, one side has won. If it's marines, they can typicaly end the game quickly as aliens get much weaker with each hive down.
But aliens can have four tech points, covered the map in infestation, and if the marines are organized and want to turtle, it's an absolute bitch breaking them. It'll break eventually, but its a hell of a lot harder to take down endgame one tech point marines then aliens.
I understand what you are saying, but the the strafe jumping is less of a problem if you engage from different sides.
The skulk is not about owning the marine team, it is a harass and scout unit. You are not supposed to kill the whole marine team all by yourself.
Also, I'm not against the idea of focus, but what exactly is skillful about leaping in and biting once for a kill?
Agreed. The problem is when people come from other games that they have been playing where they have been rambo'ing their way to victory, rather than using teamwork tactics.
I didn't say that it should be a equivalent distribution on alien side. Or counter tactics for what it's worth. One way or another you ultimately get 1on1 engagements. With 6 players, whatever the "split" chosen, it's usual.
Well u need skill to track ur target which is missing his armor, landing the bite while in high speed leap, and escaping to right direction. Also leaping away as planned if u missed ur bite(surprisingly hard to do). With focus ur aim/skill is rewarded with similiar way like the marines has it.
The skill ceiling of skulk is just way lower currently than it is on a marine. Too often as skulk there comes a situation where u died because there was nothing u could have done but as marine u usually could have just aimed better. That's called "anti-fun" by some game developers :P
A large part of skulk (/alien) skill is proper team play and timing. It is the reason you feel that skill ceiling is lower, because you won't find the required team play in pub games.
As a marine it is much easier to play as a team. You don't have to communicate at all to play with your team mate effectively.
What I can't deal with is jetpackers using the new fade. They practically have more fuel than you do energy, and once they touch the ground they can recharge it about as fast as you do energy and be in the air before you know it. Combine this with the fact that blink doesn't "throw" you as far when you tap it and you get a frustrating dance where half the time you end up dropping like a stone or sitting on the floor while the marine flies away laughing. Even worse when the marine can aim and dodge.
The other day I 1v1'd a jetpack/shottie marine in crevice on Summit as a skulk. Didn't matter my KDR was so low it was almost non-existant, I felt like the best player in NS2 at that moment. Needless to say I was in the top 3 on the team for kills so our swift and horrible defeat was guaranteed.
This brings up another point though, almost every game in a pub I've played have been total steamrolls in one direction or the other. It's difficult to balance a game for pubs when one person can and almost always does, make a huge difference. Whether it's a marine that regularily ices skulks three at a time or a lerk that spores and needles marines in one swoop and finishes them off with bites on the return. A player on one team that can reliably hold his own against a small group will always assure victory for the team. It has been a long time since I played a match that was won through clever feints and actual tactics instead of one person simply carrying the team with a 10-1 KDR.
Now this isn't some pro-casual anti-competetive player rant. The only way to get better is to play against people who are better than you and because of that I've definitely improved on my skulking and chasing jumping beans. However because of this though any pub match stat recording is subject to severe doubt to even being pointless. The only useful stat recording should be from strictly competetive matches with stats for each lifeform/weapon/upgrade used. Inflating numbers with pub stats is going to do nothing but mask or exaggerate potential problems in balance.
what powered suit? looks just like armor to me (knee pads)
http://www.naturalselection2.com/reinforced/images/rewards/EliteAssualtArmor_full.jpg
http://www.naturalselection2.com/reinforced/images/rewards/AssaultArmor_full.jpg
If we are going for total realism here, I am sure interested in hearing how a skulk turn into an egg and then into an Onos in about a minute.
Wait what? No one questioned this? Really?
No, every encounter does not have more aliens than marines. Presuming the teams are even, that's not a thing. 1v1 encounter balance is stupidly important as one of the aliens best means of keeping the marines scattered is to harass backfield RT's, which tends to be responded to by one marine. Even if you outsmart them, bait them into the room, and get the jump on them it's *still* a 50/50 because of the boosted jump. Adding on to this encounter presuming skulks and base marines only, the marines gain an edge for every unit added to the encounter. A group of 4 marines against 4 skulks presuming equal skill has the marines above a 50/50. This is a big reason why large servers swing way out of balance and marine turtles are really hard to break.
The design principle has also been completely reversed in how these units function. To assert that the current state of skulk vs rine isn't bad isn't just and sketchy assertion about balance that could easily be argued against, it's also an assertion that drastic and contradictory change is just fine for UWE to make on a post-release game and doesn't hurt the game, which is also really easy to argue against.
I dunno, if we do that, then we're opening the door for those alien custom skin mods from before.
if possible, feasibly, I hope they will allow AV mods.