My list of the most problematic features / balancing in b256
Radtoo
Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167726Members
Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167726Members
This:
- Skulk movement is around 20% too slow. Perhaps more. Good marines get too much damage in before you're biting them.
- Regen is around 50% too slow (I feel it was quite balanced before Sewlek re-did the game, now it is not). Smaller life forms should probably get more of a buff than big ones, though.
- Fades are still a bit too healthy, Onos still a bit too weak. (That frontal shielding skill isn't really working well against good players who cease firing when it's being used, or don't usually fire at the front in the first place).
- Crags heal units a bit too slowly. How often don't I want to return to hive to heal? Pretty rarely.
- Alien commander has a bit too much to do, overall.
- Related: Cyst networks are still too vulnerable to attack. This is, of course, also related to skulks being too slow now and thus loosing most fights when they have to rush to defend something against good players... but maybe some tweaks for grenade damage and/or flamer damage are also required to fix it.
- Aliens should be able to spawn eggs somewhere else again.
- People have started scripting 3, 5 shot salvo fire for marine pistols. This is rather unfair. Salvo fire needs to be an option or removed, fast mouse clicking isn't the way here.
- The marine commander being able to power an unpowered phase gate by skill is a terrible idea that makes small alien sneak attacks fail and small marine sneak attacks succeed - as if more of that was needed! I personally see no other real use for the skill, so it'd be good to entirely remove it.
- On some maps there are places where you can put ARCs into range of resources or hives, places that are way too easily defensible.
- The defensive buildings for both sides are too weak in >10 player games.
- Hive rush to egg lock is still terribly effective. Even before Sewlek's changes, the only real counter was spawning eggs nearby but outside the hive... in the hive only just isn't enough.
- The aliens have a terrible tech tree and any progress is strongly bound to having many hives. Besides that, they also need map control for resources. The marines have a very strong / flexible tech tree, extreme mobility, a lot of firepower, and not much of a need for map control beyond some resource points. Marines need fewer resource points the better the average skill level on a server is, too, even if the aliens also get equally better.
Things I also thought about:
- I have strong reservations about how grenades play out. I think they'd be a good element in the game, but it wasn't such a good idea to give organized squads of marines a further buff (a small group of decent marines with some shotguns and GL + maybe jetpacks and some flamer is terribly efficient against average groups of aliens, anyhow - you don't need to nerf large group attacks on them by giving them the ability to deploy MORE AoE damage than the GL already does).
- I also think both MACs and drifters might auto-fight each other when otherwise idle and give LoS to the commanders, but perhaps the MACs should NOT count for ARC targeting.
- Various maps have very strong points for the marines to camp and cut off, places where smaller life forms have trouble to reach and/or attack. A third to half the marine team might very well hold the entire alien team off there, unless they have mostly fades / onos. But things might be better if aliens become a bit faster, I'd have to see then. Maybe not worth fixing right now.
- Marines being allowed to build on infestation was just not a good idea.
- Too much babysitting of MACs (that run after marines that weren't completely welded yet) and Drifters. A toggle to restrict them to a room or roam the (powered/infested) map to construct and assist would be helpful, while not completely taking away all the possible micro-management that *some* commanders also seem to like (for reasons I don't understand - but I accept it, and there could be a compromise like this).
[All values are approximate - they are just by what I'd change first, see if it works, and then revise further.]
Please add your own opinions (even contradicting ones) if you feel like doing so, but don't expect me to change my opinion (/easily), or comment on everything.
- Skulk movement is around 20% too slow. Perhaps more. Good marines get too much damage in before you're biting them.
- Regen is around 50% too slow (I feel it was quite balanced before Sewlek re-did the game, now it is not). Smaller life forms should probably get more of a buff than big ones, though.
- Fades are still a bit too healthy, Onos still a bit too weak. (That frontal shielding skill isn't really working well against good players who cease firing when it's being used, or don't usually fire at the front in the first place).
- Crags heal units a bit too slowly. How often don't I want to return to hive to heal? Pretty rarely.
- Alien commander has a bit too much to do, overall.
- Related: Cyst networks are still too vulnerable to attack. This is, of course, also related to skulks being too slow now and thus loosing most fights when they have to rush to defend something against good players... but maybe some tweaks for grenade damage and/or flamer damage are also required to fix it.
- Aliens should be able to spawn eggs somewhere else again.
- People have started scripting 3, 5 shot salvo fire for marine pistols. This is rather unfair. Salvo fire needs to be an option or removed, fast mouse clicking isn't the way here.
- The marine commander being able to power an unpowered phase gate by skill is a terrible idea that makes small alien sneak attacks fail and small marine sneak attacks succeed - as if more of that was needed! I personally see no other real use for the skill, so it'd be good to entirely remove it.
- On some maps there are places where you can put ARCs into range of resources or hives, places that are way too easily defensible.
- The defensive buildings for both sides are too weak in >10 player games.
- Hive rush to egg lock is still terribly effective. Even before Sewlek's changes, the only real counter was spawning eggs nearby but outside the hive... in the hive only just isn't enough.
- The aliens have a terrible tech tree and any progress is strongly bound to having many hives. Besides that, they also need map control for resources. The marines have a very strong / flexible tech tree, extreme mobility, a lot of firepower, and not much of a need for map control beyond some resource points. Marines need fewer resource points the better the average skill level on a server is, too, even if the aliens also get equally better.
Things I also thought about:
- I have strong reservations about how grenades play out. I think they'd be a good element in the game, but it wasn't such a good idea to give organized squads of marines a further buff (a small group of decent marines with some shotguns and GL + maybe jetpacks and some flamer is terribly efficient against average groups of aliens, anyhow - you don't need to nerf large group attacks on them by giving them the ability to deploy MORE AoE damage than the GL already does).
- I also think both MACs and drifters might auto-fight each other when otherwise idle and give LoS to the commanders, but perhaps the MACs should NOT count for ARC targeting.
- Various maps have very strong points for the marines to camp and cut off, places where smaller life forms have trouble to reach and/or attack. A third to half the marine team might very well hold the entire alien team off there, unless they have mostly fades / onos. But things might be better if aliens become a bit faster, I'd have to see then. Maybe not worth fixing right now.
- Marines being allowed to build on infestation was just not a good idea.
- Too much babysitting of MACs (that run after marines that weren't completely welded yet) and Drifters. A toggle to restrict them to a room or roam the (powered/infested) map to construct and assist would be helpful, while not completely taking away all the possible micro-management that *some* commanders also seem to like (for reasons I don't understand - but I accept it, and there could be a compromise like this).
[All values are approximate - they are just by what I'd change first, see if it works, and then revise further.]
Please add your own opinions (even contradicting ones) if you feel like doing so, but don't expect me to change my opinion (/easily), or comment on everything.
Comments
When you say regen was changed, do mean from when it couldn't work in combat? because it was really bad then.
-crags can get heal wave (with krag). Ask your com for it if you are onos. It would be nice for healing to stack however...
-Alien commander does NOT have "too much to do". Ask the other dragon if he posts. Even if you had extreme drifter mirco and used contam to wage biological warfare, you still do not micro as much as the marine com.
-Cysts... need a rework. I think.
-Lucky for you, aliens can spawn eggs, either at hive, or echo eggs using a shift.
-Scripts are cheap, but I haven't seen any, so I don't know how bad the problem is.
-Its just a ninja PG, if you let a marine slip past defenses, they get a reward. While powering structures could be more useful, its not useless.
-Arcs are like that. Its hard in a pub game, but try and get a lerk to spores, a gorge to bile and a drift to cloud and arcs are gone. Or, try a base rush on them.
-Games are not really balanced for greater than 6v6 I think. It need work.
-rush tactics for both teams work, skulk rush on CC is a game winner. Luckily, most players don't rush.
-Aliens don't really need many res points either. It's possible to win on two hives. That said, biomass could use some love
I might not comment on your thoughts :P
You seem to think marines are OP, which might they might be, but aliens still win more games. Try doing this for aliens, see if you find anything.
Still, well thought out post.
*Grabs the fire extinguisher in preparation*
It's the same for the marines only they need less res to get everything, there aren't really any choices in either tech tress that have meaningful consequences or reward forethought aside from maybe crag vs shift or a1 vs w1. I really think you should have to invest into life forms in a less universal way, and I think the same of JP vs Exo, we see too much of both tech trees on the ground even in short/even games.
As to not be completely negative I think lerks and lerk timings exactly where they need to be, I just think marine shotgun timing needs to be a little later. I also think the grenades were a great addition, they just need to be toned down or raised to 5 res to discourage spam.
Not sure if serious?
Considering some of their opinions are the genuine opinions of a lot of people on the forums, I'd say it's not. Aside from that at least a troll post has the potential to get productive discussion going, and off-topic post does not....
Just because you may share some of the opinions of the OP doesn't mean "a lot of people" on the forums have the same opinion. In my experience "a lot of people" with the same opinion are of the noobish quality and not worth it. If you want my productive discussion give me a topic with something other than the horse shit opinion of some one who seems to not understand basic game play. I chose not to argue with people who don't have a platform to stand on as it would be an unfair and completely bullshit debate.
- Skulk movement is around 20% too slow. Perhaps more. Good marines get too much damage in before you're biting them.
* You are supposed to use walljumps for speed and get of the floor when in melee combat, change directions a lot etc. If you run in a straight line on the ground only, you deserve to get shot. Skulks can climb for a reason.
- Regen is around 50% too slow (I feel it was quite balanced before Sewlek re-did the game, now it is not). Smaller life forms should probably get more of a buff than big ones, though.
* regen now works in combat and is much much stronger then it was before the rework due to that ability.
- Fades are still a bit too healthy, Onos still a bit too weak. (That frontal shielding skill isn't really working well against good players who cease firing when it's being used, or don't usually fire at the front in the first place).
* To early to tell I think. Many are still grasping the new fade/onos. Also making a fade weaker will get it closer to a oneshot which most folk I have seen posting find unacceptable.
Onos I cant say, see them rarely.
- Crags heal units a bit too slowly. How often don't I want to return to hive to heal? Pretty rarely.
* Overheal ability on the crags exists if there is a crag hive. If kham picked another hive type well... being faster in moving to the hive could work.
- Alien commander has a bit too much to do, overall.
* While still rather boring in my opinion the kham has far far far far far less to do then the marine commander ever does. Khams have free time, and lots of it.
If you think the kham has to much to do, you are doing it wrong. (although a kham can fill up his/her time with more driter use and more micro, its not 'needed' as much as the work a rine comm does.)
(no, the kharaa comm guide on the wiki isnt updated yet either.. working on it.. time etc)
- Related: Cyst networks are still too vulnerable to attack. This is, of course, also related to skulks being too slow now and thus loosing most fights when they have to rush to defend something against good players... but maybe some tweaks for grenade damage and/or flamer damage are also required to fix it.
* cysts are fairly cheap but I have yet to experience real problems with the cyst network. Just get the focus away from cysts to marine targets.
- Aliens should be able to spawn eggs somewhere else again.
* echo
- People have started scripting 3, 5 shot salvo fire for marine pistols. This is rather unfair. Salvo fire needs to be an option or removed, fast mouse clicking isn't the way here.
* Many high lvl players do a lot like this by hand and surely not scripts. Also, there is a delay which weakens any form of script last I heared.
- The marine commander being able to power an unpowered phase gate by skill is a terrible idea that makes small alien sneak attacks fail and small marine sneak attacks succeed - as if more of that was needed! I personally see no other real use for the skill, so it'd be good to entirely remove it.
* one of the best additions in the game. Aliens before the rework had 0 need to defend or check there hive areas. It was just, infest away and you are good to go. Now they need to scout, defend, attack just like marines need to do.
- On some maps there are places where you can put ARCs into range of resources or hives, places that are way too easily defensible.
* Thats how arcs work, its the entire point never to let marines get into such positions in the first place.
- The defensive buildings for both sides are too weak in >10 player games.
* They are ment for chip damage & warnings, not to actually be automated defences. If you use whips, hydras and turrets as automated defenses, then thats the problem. Its mainly a player vs player game.
- Hive rush to egg lock is still terribly effective. Even before Sewlek's changes, the only real counter was spawning eggs nearby but outside the hive... in the hive only just isn't enough.
* you could technicly echo eggs before they all get shot. Or spawn more eggs before they can shoot the ones you have. Also helps to have aliens defend intime.
- The aliens have a terrible tech tree and any progress is strongly bound to having many hives. Besides that, they also need map control for resources. The marines have a very strong / flexible tech tree, extreme mobility, a lot of firepower, and not much of a need for map control beyond some resource points. Marines need fewer resource points the better the average skill level on a server is, too, even if the aliens also get equally better.
* Aliens always needed more RTs and more hives.. thats the whole point. Asymetric balance!
As for the tech tree, aliens got a wide variety of choices, even more after the change. The simplest choice is shells giving both regen and cara for example. Also they can use crag/shift/shade regardless of hive type. And on most patches, aliens come out on top.
Things I also thought about:
- I have strong reservations about how grenades play out. I think they'd be a good element in the game, but it wasn't such a good idea to give organized squads of marines a further buff (a small group of decent marines with some shotguns and GL + maybe jetpacks and some flamer is terribly efficient against average groups of aliens, anyhow - you don't need to nerf large group attacks on them by giving them the ability to deploy MORE AoE damage than the GL already does).
* if marines have all that then aliens should have many upgrades and high lifeforms to wreck the marines. If aliens do not have all that, you were losing to begin with.
- I also think both MACs and drifters might auto-fight each other when otherwise idle and give LoS to the commanders, but perhaps the MACs should NOT count for ARC targeting.
* I dont care on this point as there dps was low to begin with.
- Various maps have very strong points for the marines to camp and cut off, places where smaller life forms have trouble to reach and/or attack. A third to half the marine team might very well hold the entire alien team off there, unless they have mostly fades / onos. But things might be better if aliens become a bit faster, I'd have to see then. Maybe not worth fixing right now.
* welcome to chokepoints. Thats the entire purpose of a chokepoint, to stop the alien advance.
- Marines being allowed to build on infestation was just not a good idea.
* it opens up a whole array of startegies and a need for aliens to defend so yes, it was a very good idea.
- Too much babysitting of MACs (that run after marines that weren't completely welded yet) and Drifters. A toggle to restrict them to a room or roam the (powered/infested) map to construct and assist would be helpful, while not completely taking away all the possible micro-management that *some* commanders also seem to like (for reasons I don't understand - but I accept it, and there could be a compromise like this).
* while I do think rine comm has loads to do, I see no problem with having macs follow marines. risk/reward.
So yes, I strongly disagree with almost everything you said. its simply not true.
That's why you ambush and use some advanced movement, as a skulk you should get a bite in before the marine knows you're there most of the time.
2. play for 1 week.
3. Come back and look at your thread.
4. ?????
5. Post back.
Sure you don't mean disagree? :-/
Good effort commenting each single point, btw. Quite rare instead of just a "disagree".
yes I ment disagree. lols @ the typo. *goes to edit*
Yes, let's "fix" all those things so we get alien win rates >95% again.
That made me feel good for the rest of the day. Thanks for the lols.
Bone shield is incredibly annoying to deal with as a Marine because the Onos can essentially block an entire approach indefinitely. They don't even need back up, and they can still slow down a marine advance to a crawl just by itself.
Besides, isn't the ns2stats showing that win rate is still alien-friendly?
Boneshield requires huge amounts of energy.
Currently NS2 stats shows a 57% winrate for the aliens.
You could never oneshot a fade in ns2. Fade used to have 200/50 with invincibility within "Fading", which was fine really. Now Fade has semi-tanking capabilites and is impossible to take down with LMG, unless the fade is a complete derp.
I'm all for good movement/mobility fade with lower hp, so good marines can take down a bad fade even with a single LMG like they used to be able to, but an equally good fade can just avoid the damage and take on the marines, including shotgunners too. Used to be good long before, now fade is crappy to play and not fun to play against.
Now fades tank 2 full hits with shotty LV3 (3 to take down) and even 4 with LV0. On a weapon that only has 6 shots to use.
As for Onos, I'd agree onos is on the weak side, but I don't really like more health onoses. It feels quite cheap.
But maybe some adjustments to boneshield could fix that:
- lower energy cost when standing still
- ability to move [slowly!] with boneshield, at the cost of it draining energy quickly
I only said that reducing fade health brings it much closer to being oneshot, which should not happen.