Remove bio-mass and keep abilities as a hive 1, 2 and 3. Was bio-mass added just to make alien upgrade's this confusing?
Over the last rookie weekend, new alien comms picked up on the biomass system pretty quickly, it was each upgrade being at a different structure that mostly threw people off.
On another point I want to mention another thing that I have forgotten: In late game, when marines have jetpacks and Aliens only have last 1 hive they are farmed at their base until Marines decide to finish it, in this case when you have a maxed biomass hive and only skulk it's very very frustrating because you have no hope to kill a human with JP especially if he has a shotgun. You will say me it's the same thing with Marines and the JP/exos but with only one CC you still have powerful upgrades, not the case of shadowstep or bilebomb.
If the game is over, but marines are taking their sweet time to finish it, you vote concede instead of letting yourselves get farmed, that's what it's for. It's not an argument to put leap on one hive.
On another point I want to mention another thing that I have forgotten: In late game, when marines have jetpacks and Aliens only have last 1 hive they are farmed at their base until Marines decide to finish it, in this case when you have a maxed biomass hive and only skulk it's very very frustrating because you have no hope to kill a human with JP especially if he has a shotgun. You will say me it's the same thing with Marines and the JP/exos but with only one CC you still have powerful upgrades, not the case of shadowstep or bilebomb.
If the game is over, but marines are taking their sweet time to finish it, you vote concede instead of letting yourselves get farmed, that's what it's for. It's not an argument to put leap on one hive.
It's not always over, I lost some games just because a group of 4 marines with JP rushed like pigs the second hive and kill it in few seconds with GL+shotguns but we still had 4-5 RT and a disputed tech point but when half of your team is skulk and you loose the second hive you are just fucked without leap.
You're missing the point I was trying to make. You're arguing to buff the most basic alien lifeform because it's too frustrating to play skulk against teched up marines on one hive. I'm saying that's not the best of arguments, as the whole point of the game is to make sure you get more hives for upgrades/abilities, get higher lifeforms to deal with marines, and damage their economy to prevent them from teching up faster than you. When all of that fails, and you end up with half a team of skulks that are unable to prevent or counter a teched up marine jetpack+shotgun rush, then that's just a fully deserved win for the marines, isn't it? Yes, it can be frustrating, but losing always is...
Anyway, if marine strafejumping is the problem, let's just fix that first and see where we stand instead of switching around alien abilities.
What if biomass unlocks the ability to research an ability, but it's tied to the structure not biomass level. IE if you lose your second hive you don't loss leap but if you lose your only whip you loss leap...
I think I would rather see Leap buffed to have a slightly longer range and and slightly faster acceleration. It is quite challenging to connect with JP marines at the best of times, and when you do, you only have enough time for a single bite. Marines at their most basic can still hit all lifeforms, but if Aliens are reduced to all Skulks, they have little chance against JP Marines even with all upgrades and abilities.
People have been complaining about the Kharaamander being too linear, why not have a choice for your third biomass ability- between leap and bile bomb? The option opted out of would then be defaulted to the first tier of the second hive. That way based on how things are in one's game, the alien comm can actually make an intuitive decision for their team. Crazy amirite?
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What it sounds like to me, is that the frustration is coming from not having the tech to compete against higher tech'd opponents.
Jetpacks could be achieved at around the same time as aliens can get leap. But then, that would come at a great cost, especially if the aliens haven't been taking down extractors regularly.
From the story, it sounds like the marines simply out tech'd the aliens, especially if they are still sitting on a single hive. The same would be true if Marines had 1 Chair with W1/A1 and aliens were rocking two hive decked out Fades/Onos in the same amount of time.
Frustration is to be expected, but the solution isn't "just give aliens more tech sooner" because then it will be the marines who cry about skulks leaping too soon, doesn't change a bloddy thing.
Had the alien team organized, they have many ways to prevent that kind of teching up forcing the marine comm to take a new tech route.
What it sounds like to me, is that the frustration is coming from not having the tech to compete against higher tech'd opponents.
I don't know what other folks are thinking, but I'm more focused on a way for aliens to stay viable in a game after suffering a setback rather than just dropping higher tech to a lower position on the tree.
Considering an even match, if marines have two tech points and aliens have two tech points, the marines have a much, much better chance of continuing to play and win the game if one tech point is lost than aliens currently do. Simply losing one tech point mid game should not be an instant gg on one team if it isn't on the other IMO.
I will not come back on the marines strafejump mechanics, almost everything has been said, particularly the insane combinaison of a perfect timing and the use of shotguns. However a solution could be to invert shadowstep and leap on the actual tech tree:
It could resolve some problems:
- make the fadeplosion a little less effective during the first ten minutes as delay the shadowstep obtention
- add mobility to skulk when marines get shotty and increase the viability of playing skulk during 5-10 minutes of the game
- prevent the obligation to have a shift hive on big maps like Veil by enhancing the overall skulk speed
It will not solve every problems but it could be a good beginning.
So, what do you think about it ?
EDIT: I changed the thread title because I think everyone is against the idea of a leap with 2 biomass.
Are we really playing the same game ?
Fadeplosion isn't part of the game anymore, since it's way too easy to take them down.
Leap would be good on 3 biomass if for nothing else than comeback potential. JP/SG marines shouldn't have too much trouble against 1 hive aliens (even with leap), and if the marines have a significant tech advantage, then leap wont make a big difference.
While I do like the idea of making the 2nd hive very important to alien tech, losing a 2nd hive should NOT be the end of the game, which it currently does as most required alien tech requires 2 hives. If losing the 2nd hive means losing the game, then link all hives into the same HP pool and multiply Hive HP by number of hives.
Doesn't getting 3 biomass costs the same (or more?) as a second hive anyway?
Also, as far as tying marine upgrades to a 2nd CC, I feel a more elegant solution would be to tie it to natural marine tech progression.
i.e.
w1/a1 available from start
w2/a2 available with AA/armory (depending of balance)
w3/a3 available with Prototype lab/AA (depending on balance)
Comments
Over the last rookie weekend, new alien comms picked up on the biomass system pretty quickly, it was each upgrade being at a different structure that mostly threw people off.
If the game is over, but marines are taking their sweet time to finish it, you vote concede instead of letting yourselves get farmed, that's what it's for. It's not an argument to put leap on one hive.
It's not always over, I lost some games just because a group of 4 marines with JP rushed like pigs the second hive and kill it in few seconds with GL+shotguns but we still had 4-5 RT and a disputed tech point but when half of your team is skulk and you loose the second hive you are just fucked without leap.
Anyway, if marine strafejumping is the problem, let's just fix that first and see where we stand instead of switching around alien abilities.
Then I was like, "...and stalling the inevitable loss even further, no thank you."
No.
Compared to infinite supply of 3/3 rines...
Yeah wow how can anything defeat gorges with bile..........except shooting them.
Jetpacks could be achieved at around the same time as aliens can get leap. But then, that would come at a great cost, especially if the aliens haven't been taking down extractors regularly.
From the story, it sounds like the marines simply out tech'd the aliens, especially if they are still sitting on a single hive. The same would be true if Marines had 1 Chair with W1/A1 and aliens were rocking two hive decked out Fades/Onos in the same amount of time.
Frustration is to be expected, but the solution isn't "just give aliens more tech sooner" because then it will be the marines who cry about skulks leaping too soon, doesn't change a bloddy thing.
Had the alien team organized, they have many ways to prevent that kind of teching up forcing the marine comm to take a new tech route.
I don't know what other folks are thinking, but I'm more focused on a way for aliens to stay viable in a game after suffering a setback rather than just dropping higher tech to a lower position on the tree.
Considering an even match, if marines have two tech points and aliens have two tech points, the marines have a much, much better chance of continuing to play and win the game if one tech point is lost than aliens currently do. Simply losing one tech point mid game should not be an instant gg on one team if it isn't on the other IMO.
Are we really playing the same game ?
Fadeplosion isn't part of the game anymore, since it's way too easy to take them down.
However, seeing leap more often would be awesome.
I disagree - if aliens get pushed back to 1 hive, then there's no way to fight back. If marines get pushed back to 1 chair, they still have w3a3.
it was tested and it was bad
While I do like the idea of making the 2nd hive very important to alien tech, losing a 2nd hive should NOT be the end of the game, which it currently does as most required alien tech requires 2 hives. If losing the 2nd hive means losing the game, then link all hives into the same HP pool and multiply Hive HP by number of hives.
Doesn't getting 3 biomass costs the same (or more?) as a second hive anyway?
Also, as far as tying marine upgrades to a 2nd CC, I feel a more elegant solution would be to tie it to natural marine tech progression.
i.e.
w1/a1 available from start
w2/a2 available with AA/armory (depending of balance)
w3/a3 available with Prototype lab/AA (depending on balance)
Oh? okay... why did it fail?