Also, if someone wishes to learn to command can i become a welding only /heal spray only player who walks them through it?
We had been allowing vets to play 'support only' for that exact purpose, due to the efforts of players like Joederp and a few others, but it's started causing problems with some vets' interpretation of what 'support only' means and racking up 30-40 kills in the process. So we've just reverted to zero tolerance for field vets, but maybe the solution is to whitelist a very small number of trusted individuals instead.
Obviously you're an old hand at this, and I trust your judgment implicitly. I'd like to set you up with admin too if you'll send me / Reckoning your steamID.
We also ran a server that was intended to be 'elites only', the antithesis of the noob server, so that vets and pros would have somewhere other than rookie friendly servers to play. It never got used though, people would rather jump into rookie servers and stomp than be the ones to seed. The more time I spend monitoring the noobs only server, the more apparent this becomes.
No. People don't want to sit and wait on a nearly empty server hoping it fills with competent players. It's silly to wait 30 minutes for a round to start only to hope there is a slightly better chance it will be a decent game. In my experience on that server, it never was.
You can name a server "COMPETITIVE ONLY NOOBS STAY OUT" and you will still get rookies in there, just like naming your server NOOBS ONLY you still get experienced players. The only way to regulate it is to have admins in there constantly, as you have found out.
To infer the majority of veteran players just want to smash rookies over and over and are doing it maliciously is really getting old hat on these forums....
No. People don't want to sit and wait on a nearly empty server hoping it fills with competent players.
I understand that seeding is not super fun, it's something that I have to do on a constant basis for the primary DFA server. It's worth it to me though, because the community that we've developed there yields a better class of game than I get jumping into servers at random. Someone has to be willing to take that step, and everywhere you find an established community, you have that core group that's willing to put in the effort. Nobody was willing to put in the effort to build an elite community around the elite server.
You can name a server "COMPETITIVE ONLY NOOBS STAY OUT" and you will still get rookies in there, just like naming your server NOOBS ONLY you still get experienced players. The only way to regulate it is to have admins in there constantly, as you have found out.
We offered to give out admin powers to any competitive players that were interested. I even approached a few specifically, and they didn't seem to really care.
To infer the majority of veteran players just want to smash rookies over and over and are doing it maliciously is really getting old hat on these forums....
I don't know that I would use the word maliciously, but there certainly seems to be no shortage of vets that enjoy it, or simply don't care about or respect people who are new to the game enough to exhibit some measure of self-control or discretion. I have a few admins and an ever-lengthening ban list you can talk to if you don't believe me. :P
I spectated a few rounds yesterday and it seemed like a good time. Watched a 40+ minute game with a lot of back and forth and I certainly miss that. People weren't dropping from the server the minute they lost nano or an initial engagement.
I was wondering what the stance is on players who want to learn to Com? (like me) I have plenty of time in game but have only Comm'd a few times and would like to get better at it. My hesitation is that while i could certainly direct the newer players there's no way I would be as "on the ball" as an experienced com. What's your preferred experience level for com on your Noob only server.
@palagi
Another hat that's getting old on these forums are the competitive players who can't be asked to seed like the rest of us plebs...
Wanting to seed or not to seed has absolutely nothing to do with being competitive or not. I'd even wager that it's the 'plebs' that seed less than experienced players, as they invest less into the game and can safely join any server without the fear of getting banned.
The point is that for every experienced player there are dozens if not a hundred noobs, so trying to seed a server for elite players only is futile at best, even without taking into account the fact that noobs will join anyway and you'd get the exact same game experience by joining any other already-filled server out there. It's not worth it.
I was wondering what the stance is on players who want to learn to Com? (like me) I have plenty of time in game but have only Comm'd a few times and would like to get better at it. My hesitation is that while i could certainly direct the newer players there's no way I would be as "on the ball" as an experienced com. What's your preferred experience level for com on your Noob only server.
We don't hassle any Com's. Jump in and have at it. It's a learning server and while we restrict players to less than 100 hours in the field we allow commanders of any skill / any playtime level. Since you have a good understanding of the game I think this would be a nice stress free environment to learn in.
Seems pretty harsh to permanently ban pro players who are doing nothing but helping out and talking with the comm.
At the time I was banned I was telling the comm how he can build everything in base and echo them around the map, which is easier then trying to micro manage multiple drifters.
Seems pretty harsh to permanently ban pro players who are doing nothing but helping out and talking with the comm.
I don't think it's harsh. The rule is simple:
"Players with more than 100 hours of game time can only command or spectate."
The way I see it, they're paying the bills, and providing maintenance and support. So... their house... their rules.
The beauty of the free world is that if you would like different rules, such as supporting from the field, you can pay, maintain and support your own server!
How about, UW create a option that can put you into a game, with people of equal skill level to you? While Retaining the current system along side, that way new players may not have such a hard time. <:-P
The point is that for every experienced player there are dozens if not a hundred noobs, so trying to seed a server for elite players only is futile at best, even without taking into account the fact that noobs will join anyway and you'd get the exact same game experience by joining any other already-filled server out there. It's not worth it.
Let me get this straight:
It is futile for a competitive player to seed (which is supporting the point that you quoted of me btw) because people other than those intended/suggested in the server title actually joined? You don't say..
Funny how this issue never stopped those non competitive players from seeding..
Just got kicked from this server. Was Commanding marines and had barely left the chair all match (which was at an excruciating 50+mins). Didn't get any warnings, just "kicked". Cheers for that.
How about, UW create a option that can put you into a game, with people of equal skill level to you? While Retaining the current system along side, that way new players may not have such a hard time. <:-P
A system like that is already in the works. I'm not sure how viable it will be with the current player base though. You'd have to throw in people of lower skill levels or you'll have very long queues for veterans. While skill goes a long way, it's all about team-work in the end and how competitive your commander is.
It's a shame NS2 doesn't have the numbers like DOTA2 or you could do all sorts of fancy balance. You could queue for commander and put em in a game of their skill level along with not needing lower ranked players as a filler. Sure you'll end up with stupid turret games and rookies being rookies but they will enjoy it a lot more then fighting a veteran.
Just got kicked from this server. Was Commanding marines and had barely left the chair all match (which was at an excruciating 50+mins). Didn't get any warnings, just "kicked". Cheers for that.
@Chizzler - I am so sorry. That was totally my fault. I kicked the wrong commander. The Alien commander was afk and they asked me to kick him and I kicked you by mistake. I am truly sorry. It was just a kick not a ban so you can rejoin. I was hoping you would just rejoin and be like WTF... again sorry.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Just played on this server, great times. Played commander for both teams while trying to educate them. I think it's a real save haven for new players to take on a purely learning role and for experienced players to take on a teaching role. A few experienced players do hop in but are regulated as best as can be to stick to commanding or spectating.
I encourage all new players to give this a whirl, we all know NS2 is a tough cookie to learn, but it's a delicious one!
@DGKHaplo
Thanks for the explanation . First time visiting the server, so it did sting a bit in the moment but I've made peace with it now :P . Glad to see I hadn't broke any rules. I did try to rejoin but the slot had filled
I will say that things seemed to be running well there, the teams were fairly balanced and no-one was single-handedly destroying everyone, So you guys are obviously doing a great job policing it and it's fantastic to see such a place for rookies to learn.
The point is that for every experienced player there are dozens if not a hundred noobs, so trying to seed a server for elite players only is futile at best, even without taking into account the fact that noobs will join anyway and you'd get the exact same game experience by joining any other already-filled server out there. It's not worth it.
Let me get this straight:
It is futile for a competitive player to seed (which is supporting the point that you quoted of me btw) because people other than those intended/suggested in the server title actually joined? You don't say..
Funny how this issue never stopped those non competitive players from seeding..
I'm assuming that your original post implied that experienced players are asshats for complaining that the skill level of servers is low without actually seeding a higher-level server themselves.
If not, then your point is moot, as seeding a normal server has absolutely nothing to do with being experienced or not, and everything to do with how much you want to invest into your game session (which correlates with experience though).
If yes, then my argument comes into play, as it's futile for high-skilled players to seed a server to cater to their own skill level, as there aren't enough skilled people playing the game. That's when they're forced to join normal servers and get bashed on.
I spectated a few rounds yesterday and it seemed like a good time. Watched a 40+ minute game with a lot of back and forth and I certainly miss that. People weren't dropping from the server the minute they lost nano or an initial engagement.
I was wondering what the stance is on players who want to learn to Com? (like me) I have plenty of time in game but have only Comm'd a few times and would like to get better at it. My hesitation is that while i could certainly direct the newer players there's no way I would be as "on the ball" as an experienced com. What's your preferred experience level for com on your Noob only server.
I would say just learn the controls in practice, and once you understand the general flow of the game just join a real server, make sure you have a mic and tell everyone its your first time comming. People dont mind new comms as long as they announce it and listen to advice.
DFA, is there possibly a way to add players to a list that would disable them from using certain weapons? Like rifle, bite gun, fade swipe etc? That way you could simply disable vets who abuse the noobs instead of banning? I'm sure it would warrant a mod of sorts.
Also I'm afraid to join now as it sounds like some admins are very liberal with the ban hammer, I would hate to get banned because I got 3-4 kills in rapid succession - circumstances come into play and there have been times where I was commanding, some skulks rush in and then I notice there is a vet skulk coming in eating IPs and everyone who spawns to end the game so I hop out of the chair, whip out my rifle and kill the vet skulk and his 2-3 buddies who were eating the IP so that the game doesn't end at 1:30. This is something I was talking about when I said I would just defend base when a noob commands too. Is this something ban worthy? For that brief moment I was stomping noobs but I feel it was a necessary action to try to allow everyone on both teams to have a good game.
Can admins maybe give warnings to vets to let us know if we continue abusing noobs we will be banned? That way those of us who truly want to help won't get mistaken for someone just beating on noobs for fun.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
The admins have diligence in checking game play hours and tolerance to communicate with vets on the ground asking them to take on a commanding or spec role (or at the very least a supporting role). Some vets have cooperated, ...and some bad apples refused to read or respond. So long as you're not apart of the latter, I doubt any action would be taken
The point is that for every experienced player there are dozens if not a hundred noobs, so trying to seed a server for elite players only is futile at best, even without taking into account the fact that noobs will join anyway and you'd get the exact same game experience by joining any other already-filled server out there. It's not worth it.
Let me get this straight:
It is futile for a competitive player to seed (which is supporting the point that you quoted of me btw) because people other than those intended/suggested in the server title actually joined? You don't say..
Funny how this issue never stopped those non competitive players from seeding..
I'm assuming that your original post implied that experienced players are asshats for complaining that the skill level of servers is low without actually seeding a higher-level server themselves.
If not, then your point is moot, as seeding a normal server has absolutely nothing to do with being experienced or not, and everything to do with how much you want to invest into your game session (which correlates with experience though).
If yes, then my argument comes into play, as it's futile for high-skilled players to seed a server to cater to their own skill level, as there aren't enough skilled people playing the game. That's when they're forced to join normal servers and get bashed on.
Yea you missed my point, and it is not moot because you just misunderstood it and went off on a tangent / separate argument.
All is well tho, lets just end it here.
The point is that for every experienced player there are dozens if not a hundred noobs, so trying to seed a server for elite players only is futile at best, even without taking into account the fact that noobs will join anyway and you'd get the exact same game experience by joining any other already-filled server out there. It's not worth it.
Let me get this straight:
It is futile for a competitive player to seed (which is supporting the point that you quoted of me btw) because people other than those intended/suggested in the server title actually joined? You don't say..
Funny how this issue never stopped those non competitive players from seeding..
I'm assuming that your original post implied that experienced players are asshats for complaining that the skill level of servers is low without actually seeding a higher-level server themselves.
If not, then your point is moot, as seeding a normal server has absolutely nothing to do with being experienced or not, and everything to do with how much you want to invest into your game session (which correlates with experience though).
If yes, then my argument comes into play, as it's futile for high-skilled players to seed a server to cater to their own skill level, as there aren't enough skilled people playing the game. That's when they're forced to join normal servers and get bashed on.
Yea you missed my point, and it is not moot because you just misunderstood it and went off on a tangent / separate argument.
All is well tho, lets just end it here.
I was going to respond a while back (since this kinda started with my comment), but I wasn't sure what point you were trying to make either. :-P
I would say just learn the controls in practice, and once you understand the general flow of the game just join a real server, make sure you have a mic and tell everyone its your first time comming. People dont mind new comms as long as they announce it and listen to advice. also ALWAYS DROP MEDPACKS AND AMMO :>
Sadly, this post will likely be seen by...pretty much no Rookie Comm ever
I was on the server the other day...learning to command/helping aliens players use the gorge (mainly their build hot keys) properly. All while trying to exclusively stay skulk through the game and only occasionally practicing my fade movement. I believe I was kicked/banned, and I'm not sure why as I am under the 100 hours played mark.
Thanks for the future explanation. I would like to continue to practice command on the server in the future.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2013
Had a second night of fantastic games on the NOOB ONLY SERVER. I commanded a few marine games (unfortunately lost every game, but you gotta take some lumps )
But for the majority of the time, I sat in spec enforcing rampaging vets to the rules, giving tips to rookies.
Had quite a few vets hop on, but at least most of them know their place, while a few bad apples get harsher enforcement.
A few vets and I have been thinking about bringing more awareness to the server by doing like a Rookie Version of the NSL Shoutcasting, perhaps we can call it "Pub/Rookie Casting"?
It's quite entertaining to watch rookies battle it out and learning from those honest mistakes we all did back then, but also see them improve! It's like watching little league soft-ball games
I've actually begun streaming games from spectator to help this along, as well as practice shout casting myself. It's fun and casual banter, while still being informative to any rookies who happen to be watching. And just like the rookie's we're watching, we're learning too
I was on the server the other day...learning to command/helping aliens players use the gorge (mainly their build hot keys) properly. All while trying to exclusively stay skulk through the game and only occasionally practicing my fade movement. I believe I was kicked/banned, and I'm not sure why as I am under the 100 hours played mark.
Thanks for the future explanation. I would like to continue to practice command on the server in the future.
It has become quite the task to admin the server. We've recently changed the policy to NO vets in the field Only Com or Spectate. You say you're under the 100 hr mark, the only other reason I could see for banning you is if you have an abnormally high skill level. If you want to PM me your steam ID I'll take a look and unban if it warrants and if it doesn't I'll give an explanation.
Comments
Absolutely.
We had been allowing vets to play 'support only' for that exact purpose, due to the efforts of players like Joederp and a few others, but it's started causing problems with some vets' interpretation of what 'support only' means and racking up 30-40 kills in the process. So we've just reverted to zero tolerance for field vets, but maybe the solution is to whitelist a very small number of trusted individuals instead.
Obviously you're an old hand at this, and I trust your judgment implicitly. I'd like to set you up with admin too if you'll send me / Reckoning your steamID.
No. People don't want to sit and wait on a nearly empty server hoping it fills with competent players. It's silly to wait 30 minutes for a round to start only to hope there is a slightly better chance it will be a decent game. In my experience on that server, it never was.
You can name a server "COMPETITIVE ONLY NOOBS STAY OUT" and you will still get rookies in there, just like naming your server NOOBS ONLY you still get experienced players. The only way to regulate it is to have admins in there constantly, as you have found out.
To infer the majority of veteran players just want to smash rookies over and over and are doing it maliciously is really getting old hat on these forums....
I understand that seeding is not super fun, it's something that I have to do on a constant basis for the primary DFA server. It's worth it to me though, because the community that we've developed there yields a better class of game than I get jumping into servers at random. Someone has to be willing to take that step, and everywhere you find an established community, you have that core group that's willing to put in the effort. Nobody was willing to put in the effort to build an elite community around the elite server.
We offered to give out admin powers to any competitive players that were interested. I even approached a few specifically, and they didn't seem to really care.
I don't know that I would use the word maliciously, but there certainly seems to be no shortage of vets that enjoy it, or simply don't care about or respect people who are new to the game enough to exhibit some measure of self-control or discretion. I have a few admins and an ever-lengthening ban list you can talk to if you don't believe me. :P
Another hat that's getting old on these forums are the competitive players who can't be asked to seed like the rest of us plebs...
That One Newbie Only Server.
23.94.11.53:27015
US West - 16 slot
Server is up now, but won't be "setup" until late tonight.
Looking for a few good admins.
I was wondering what the stance is on players who want to learn to Com? (like me) I have plenty of time in game but have only Comm'd a few times and would like to get better at it. My hesitation is that while i could certainly direct the newer players there's no way I would be as "on the ball" as an experienced com. What's your preferred experience level for com on your Noob only server.
Wanting to seed or not to seed has absolutely nothing to do with being competitive or not. I'd even wager that it's the 'plebs' that seed less than experienced players, as they invest less into the game and can safely join any server without the fear of getting banned.
The point is that for every experienced player there are dozens if not a hundred noobs, so trying to seed a server for elite players only is futile at best, even without taking into account the fact that noobs will join anyway and you'd get the exact same game experience by joining any other already-filled server out there. It's not worth it.
We don't hassle any Com's. Jump in and have at it. It's a learning server and while we restrict players to less than 100 hours in the field we allow commanders of any skill / any playtime level. Since you have a good understanding of the game I think this would be a nice stress free environment to learn in.
At the time I was banned I was telling the comm how he can build everything in base and echo them around the map, which is easier then trying to micro manage multiple drifters.
As alien just go gorge.
I don't think it's harsh. The rule is simple:
"Players with more than 100 hours of game time can only command or spectate."
The way I see it, they're paying the bills, and providing maintenance and support. So... their house... their rules.
The beauty of the free world is that if you would like different rules, such as supporting from the field, you can pay, maintain and support your own server!
Well they set up the skill indicator. I hope that's what they intend to do with it...eventually.
It is futile for a competitive player to seed (which is supporting the point that you quoted of me btw) because people other than those intended/suggested in the server title actually joined?
You don't say..
Funny how this issue never stopped those non competitive players from seeding..
A system like that is already in the works. I'm not sure how viable it will be with the current player base though. You'd have to throw in people of lower skill levels or you'll have very long queues for veterans. While skill goes a long way, it's all about team-work in the end and how competitive your commander is.
It's a shame NS2 doesn't have the numbers like DOTA2 or you could do all sorts of fancy balance. You could queue for commander and put em in a game of their skill level along with not needing lower ranked players as a filler. Sure you'll end up with stupid turret games and rookies being rookies but they will enjoy it a lot more then fighting a veteran.
@Chizzler - I am so sorry. That was totally my fault. I kicked the wrong commander. The Alien commander was afk and they asked me to kick him and I kicked you by mistake. I am truly sorry. It was just a kick not a ban so you can rejoin. I was hoping you would just rejoin and be like WTF... again sorry.
-Reckoning
I encourage all new players to give this a whirl, we all know NS2 is a tough cookie to learn, but it's a delicious one!
Thanks for the explanation
I will say that things seemed to be running well there, the teams were fairly balanced and no-one was single-handedly destroying everyone, So you guys are obviously doing a great job policing it and it's fantastic to see such a place for rookies to learn.
I'm assuming that your original post implied that experienced players are asshats for complaining that the skill level of servers is low without actually seeding a higher-level server themselves.
If not, then your point is moot, as seeding a normal server has absolutely nothing to do with being experienced or not, and everything to do with how much you want to invest into your game session (which correlates with experience though).
If yes, then my argument comes into play, as it's futile for high-skilled players to seed a server to cater to their own skill level, as there aren't enough skilled people playing the game. That's when they're forced to join normal servers and get bashed on.
I would say just learn the controls in practice, and once you understand the general flow of the game just join a real server, make sure you have a mic and tell everyone its your first time comming. People dont mind new comms as long as they announce it and listen to advice.
also ALWAYS DROP MEDPACKS AND AMMO :>
Also I'm afraid to join now as it sounds like some admins are very liberal with the ban hammer, I would hate to get banned because I got 3-4 kills in rapid succession - circumstances come into play and there have been times where I was commanding, some skulks rush in and then I notice there is a vet skulk coming in eating IPs and everyone who spawns to end the game so I hop out of the chair, whip out my rifle and kill the vet skulk and his 2-3 buddies who were eating the IP so that the game doesn't end at 1:30. This is something I was talking about when I said I would just defend base when a noob commands too. Is this something ban worthy? For that brief moment I was stomping noobs but I feel it was a necessary action to try to allow everyone on both teams to have a good game.
Can admins maybe give warnings to vets to let us know if we continue abusing noobs we will be banned? That way those of us who truly want to help won't get mistaken for someone just beating on noobs for fun.
Yea you missed my point, and it is not moot because you just misunderstood it and went off on a tangent / separate argument.
All is well tho, lets just end it here.
I was going to respond a while back (since this kinda started with my comment), but I wasn't sure what point you were trying to make either. :-P
Sadly, this post will likely be seen by...pretty much no Rookie Comm ever
I was on the server the other day...learning to command/helping aliens players use the gorge (mainly their build hot keys) properly. All while trying to exclusively stay skulk through the game and only occasionally practicing my fade movement. I believe I was kicked/banned, and I'm not sure why as I am under the 100 hours played mark.
Thanks for the future explanation. I would like to continue to practice command on the server in the future.
Wolfy
But for the majority of the time, I sat in spec enforcing rampaging vets to the rules, giving tips to rookies.
Had quite a few vets hop on, but at least most of them know their place, while a few bad apples get harsher enforcement.
A few vets and I have been thinking about bringing more awareness to the server by doing like a Rookie Version of the NSL Shoutcasting, perhaps we can call it "Pub/Rookie Casting"?
It's quite entertaining to watch rookies battle it out and learning from those honest mistakes we all did back then, but also see them improve! It's like watching little league soft-ball games
I've actually begun streaming games from spectator to help this along, as well as practice shout casting myself. It's fun and casual banter, while still being informative to any rookies who happen to be watching. And just like the rookie's we're watching, we're learning too
I'll try to do it once a night at http://www.Twitch.tv/ISEGaming
@wolfsuitmischief
It has become quite the task to admin the server. We've recently changed the policy to NO vets in the field Only Com or Spectate. You say you're under the 100 hr mark, the only other reason I could see for banning you is if you have an abnormally high skill level. If you want to PM me your steam ID I'll take a look and unban if it warrants and if it doesn't I'll give an explanation.
-Reckoning