Game quality in an abysmal state. Med spam, explosion spam, jump spam, diagnol movement exploit.
Turbine
Join Date: 2012-09-13 Member: 159160Members
Join Date: 2012-09-13 Member: 159160Members
I've been a long time player, during this time the game has progressed and regressed. The changes around reinforced have brought the game down significantly in terms of gameplay quality. Additionally the balancing has been rather sloppy and poorly solved. Not in terms of which side wins the most, but keeping gameplay of both the teams on their toes rather than a total walkover or a straight forward base rush. The shift of powers made NS1 either sides game, in NS2 it seems like UWE's only balanced both teams to win evenly. There are far too many 10-15min games, if concede was available any earlier the bulk would be below 10mins.
In-game exploitable features which are legitimate, have only become so due to the poor implementation of the content.
Med spamming, this is far too convenient. The only balancing here has been a slightly increased pickup interval. You're doing precision teleporting/deploying of supplies. It would make sense to require a few seconds to materialize, just like the effect of spawning. Commander spamming inputs to create these in vast numbers seem rather ridiculous. Strategies are adopted to make the most use out of this "exploit".
Explosion spam, just what we needed. Reinforced introducing new grenades, ontop of the already generous grenade launcher and in particular mines. Giving someone the ability to take out 3 skulks is generous, especially early game when everyone is. Surely you would atleast have to upgrade for additional mines.
Diagnol movement exploit, due to the motion implementation (which is rather flawed), walking diagnolly maintains your speed and increases your maximum speed. This system really needs to be re-worked. Have you tried running diagonally? It'll slow you down a considerable amount.
Momentum between skulk's and marine's have taken different paths after an update awhile ago, as skulk's have a heck of a lot of momentum compared to before, marine's have little in comparison. 4 legged creatures with their weight distributed across their bodies would have much less momentum, try chase a cheetah and catch him, you'd have to catch him sleeping.
Jumping, due to the rate at which things fall, the in-game gravity is comparable to us on Earth. So there's no reason for it to be any different, additionally the marines have armour which may be upgraded. None of which is an attributing factor to the jump height. Say the in-game male character is a little above the average height (according to wikipedia), say 1.75m, using a random online jump calculator for an 18-29 year old weighing 75kg, the average jump height is 32cm keeping your legs straight.
In NS2 you can jump close to the shoulders of another marine. The span from your lower shoulder line to the top of this persons head would be about 26.5cm. So in effect you're jumping a whopping 1.485 metres.. Yeah right.
UWE has poorly handled the game since release. Ignoring the major updates before a free weekend. Making an update valued at $550,000 including much content the players did not want at all (noboby would be sad without grenades), and biodome receiving mixed reactions, then sending a bill to the players asking for donations was one thing. But what about all the people who were constantly complaining about performance and additional options to improve performance. This would have increased the player base significantly, I bought new parts so I could play NS2 well, friends on the other hand.. aren't so lucky. Soon after you disclosed that the game will not receive major updates in favour of focusing on a new project. Abandoning the game and then adding more badges and content for donators.. Suddenly not the most appealing game to donate to anymore. The lack of quality attention to details white desperately need to be addressed has seriously hurt the games success.
In-game exploitable features which are legitimate, have only become so due to the poor implementation of the content.
Med spamming, this is far too convenient. The only balancing here has been a slightly increased pickup interval. You're doing precision teleporting/deploying of supplies. It would make sense to require a few seconds to materialize, just like the effect of spawning. Commander spamming inputs to create these in vast numbers seem rather ridiculous. Strategies are adopted to make the most use out of this "exploit".
Explosion spam, just what we needed. Reinforced introducing new grenades, ontop of the already generous grenade launcher and in particular mines. Giving someone the ability to take out 3 skulks is generous, especially early game when everyone is. Surely you would atleast have to upgrade for additional mines.
Diagnol movement exploit, due to the motion implementation (which is rather flawed), walking diagnolly maintains your speed and increases your maximum speed. This system really needs to be re-worked. Have you tried running diagonally? It'll slow you down a considerable amount.
Momentum between skulk's and marine's have taken different paths after an update awhile ago, as skulk's have a heck of a lot of momentum compared to before, marine's have little in comparison. 4 legged creatures with their weight distributed across their bodies would have much less momentum, try chase a cheetah and catch him, you'd have to catch him sleeping.
Jumping, due to the rate at which things fall, the in-game gravity is comparable to us on Earth. So there's no reason for it to be any different, additionally the marines have armour which may be upgraded. None of which is an attributing factor to the jump height. Say the in-game male character is a little above the average height (according to wikipedia), say 1.75m, using a random online jump calculator for an 18-29 year old weighing 75kg, the average jump height is 32cm keeping your legs straight.
In NS2 you can jump close to the shoulders of another marine. The span from your lower shoulder line to the top of this persons head would be about 26.5cm. So in effect you're jumping a whopping 1.485 metres.. Yeah right.
UWE has poorly handled the game since release. Ignoring the major updates before a free weekend. Making an update valued at $550,000 including much content the players did not want at all (noboby would be sad without grenades), and biodome receiving mixed reactions, then sending a bill to the players asking for donations was one thing. But what about all the people who were constantly complaining about performance and additional options to improve performance. This would have increased the player base significantly, I bought new parts so I could play NS2 well, friends on the other hand.. aren't so lucky. Soon after you disclosed that the game will not receive major updates in favour of focusing on a new project. Abandoning the game and then adding more badges and content for donators.. Suddenly not the most appealing game to donate to anymore. The lack of quality attention to details white desperately need to be addressed has seriously hurt the games success.
Comments
From pointing out that you may not understand what things are intentional (and not considered an exploit to anybody..) to not understanding the cost impact nor timing involved with either medpack or grenade usage in regards to frequency... or to myself being completely lost on why you are arguing for realism over gameplay? I just.. what?
Med spamming is quite balanced right now, you can out damage it if you don't miss bites (don't miss bites).
There's nothing wrong with grenades right now.
I haven't seen diagonal movement affecting speed in this game as a marine at all. Maybe you confused this game with quake?
Wtf analogy? And how is it relevant to balance?
The marines all wear nanite armour which increases their endurance and power, I don't see anything wrong with jumping here.
The price of $550k wasn't for that patch alone, it was to support the cost of each patch that has been made since release as a lot of time effort and money has gone into supporting the game post-release that really didn't have to be done (well didn't have to by industry standards, release a game? suckers, you got what you payed for). Also to pay for their private jet to fly to germany for the LAN earlier.
I really, REALLY don't understand why you used real life analogies for a video game but ok. Thought I needed to say that again, because it was stupid.
IMO:
Med spamming is not an "exploit", it costs 1 res and means the com must focus on his marines, an investment that might not pay off in the end anyway. Sure its annoying for the marine you spent time fighting is healed, but remember he doesn't get any armor back, only 50(?) health.
It used to have a cooldown at somepoint but it would end up telling marines to "weld target at waypoint" if you lost rhythm
Out of the three nades Reinforced produced, one is a cluster bomb which does so little damage I always go with nerve gas. I can't say I notice much spamming of them, or mines but that could just be people I play with.
Mines, have to be researched by com, can't get "additional mines" at once (what I assumed you meant). At most, you can kill a few skulks, maybe an unlucky lerk/fade.
For jumping, see NS1. Also, how many games have sane jumping? I think all programers secretly want to be birds :P -That was the trouble, they MADE a big update before a free weekend, twice kinda and they confused people. -UWE did try, believe it or not. This game is shit in terms of optimization, but it used to be worse, far worse. Adding Linux option... dunno, but its certainly something.
This is just my thoughts on the matter, which seem to disagree with yours, but could you say these things hurt game success?
PS: they nerfed strafe jump
It now has a pickup delay of 0.53s, that is, a marine cannot pick up another medpack within that time frame.
That is why I said it used to :P
He said the only thing to nerf medkits was delay aforementioned ground pickup, I'm just pointing out they have tried other (not as successful) ideas.
ARMAfield 5: Dark Space Tactics
with spaceships
Do you realize how unbalanced this game would be if marines couldn't receive medpacks in combat? As soon as higher lifeforms came out marines would be finished. Not to mention that there is a delay on how frequently they can be picked up, so it isn't even possible to spam them as you suggest.
It's extremely difficult to kill a skulk with a grenade launcher assuming he has even an inkling of how to play. The hand grenades are extremely weak, and mines aren't a problem if you just don't walk over them.
Walking diagonally has made players move faster in tons of multiplayer games, going back to Quake. It's never been a problem. It's also an intentional gameplay decision and not an "exploit."
and what's with you trying to make everything in the game "realistic?" Last I checked, this is a game that features gigantic freaking space rhinos. Who cares if it isn't "realistic?" Balance decisions should be made based on gameplay, not on what is realistic and what isn't. If you made skulks as slow as you're suggesting it would completely break the game. So spare us the physics lecture
* medspam costs a lot of resources, which are potentially wasted, depending if the marines still die.
* Mines are costly and can also be destroyed safely. The only ability truly close to spamming is a GL, and that thing can only spam. Its a tradeoff I would not even closely call op.
* movement & jumping. Marines bodies are filled with nanites. Its like being on a drug without any downsides.. Marines... bloody druggies.
Using realism as support for your claims in a sci-fi game? Come on
Deus Ex Machina style medpack raining from the ceiling are actually inelegant solution I personally never liked. One can understand that it is going to stay because it's been part of the game for a very long time, but still does not have to like it.
Jumpy gameplay is also something inherited from 90s that does not have universal appeal.
What do you consider long? I’ve been playing NS1 for 10 years, and NS2 for 2 years now. In my experience, the current state of NS2 is the best it’s been.
Alien Lifeform vs Marine engagements are balanced around very accurate, well timed medpack drops. One of the most critical skills of Marine commanding is the reflex to respond to marine medpack calls, accurately place medpacks right on dodging jumping / ad strafing marines.
Without medpack spam, aliens would trample over marines.
In regards to being an exploit? If marine commanders are able to carpet the floor with medpacks, the game was over anyway. It is a massive TRES sink to medpack carpet.
Grenades are basically useless. I’ve never seen someone take out 3 skulks with grenades unless they are all idling around the hive trying to heal / spawning.
In regards to mine packs, marine commanders rushing early mines have to sacrifice fast phase gates or arms lab. It’s a trade off to be safer / get free kills on skulks
Fast Armoury -> Upg Mines. You can afford to drop 2 RT’s and require marine to hover around spawn for mine upgrade to finish. This delays fast phase gates, fast arms lab (-> armour 1 / weapons 1).
Why does it need to be reworked? Because you don’t like marines / skulks moving that tiny 5% faster?
Fyi, never ever use realism in an argument for video games. Does not work…
Once again, using realism in an argument over video games. Does not work…
Apart from biodomes initial poor performance, it is probably one of the most well received maps and follows the proven map format taken from summit / tram. It plays extremely well in competitive and public games.
If the performance worries you, find a server running NSL versions of the official maps. There is tonnes about…