Name one. I've played on basically all the servers that show up on my list that have a green latency which includes TG. I've seen consistently stacked games on every single server. It seriously just boils down to that this game has no ability to balance by skill and the players arn't willing to remove the player or groups of players that stack their server.
It's not about being the best, but rather about always improving. Winning is only so satisfactory, over time.
I do think, when/if your community's (or your personal) priority is getting the euphoric high of victory, it is fitting to remove those which keep you from that.
But it's fitting because it's your community (or your personal experience, which is yours and yours alone to design), not for any other reason.
I do think, when/if your community's (or your personal) priority is getting the euphoric high of victory, it is fitting to remove those which keep you from that.
Glad you don't share his opinion on that one Wyz...
I dont know how you two are getting the idea of removing people because I lose all the time. Complaining about not winning and complaining about not having fun because of skill stackage are pretty mutually exclusive. Its not fun being on the stacked team. Its boring winning by default. Its boring having teams surrender or F4 out early games. Its boring having that one person get all the kills. And its horrible to be stomped all over.
That may be your prerogative but some of us dont care about being the very best. Some of us just want to have fun. I mean, if you were hosting a community football game and an NFL player showed up and proceeded to stomp all over the other team do you think its wrong to tell them to leave?
IMHO, being a sports fan, I'd be honored to get smashed by a pro... "Yeah, Mr. Manning, sorry this community wants you to leave cuz you're a future HOF and this is a super serious, super important COMMUNITY FOOTBALL GAME. Real football players not welcome."
Yeah right... You wont get any better playing against scrubs all the time.
I don't think it's right to kick someone just because they're good at the game, unless the server specifically states that it's geared towards new/lower skilled players.
However, I also think that good players shouldn't go out of their way to play on the same team as other good players, as that just ruins the fun for anyone (including, I would think, the good players themselves - I mean, if you're a competitive-level player do you really gain satisfaction from killing people who have 20 hours logged?). It's unfortunate that so often players with badges or clan tags will purposefully play on the same team, it would be so much better if they tried to keep the game fair and balance each other out
EDIT: and before some L2Per jumps down my throat, I think that there should also be requirements and expectations of new players too... for example, someone who has 2 hours and jumps into the comm chair is just as capable of ruining the balance of a game as a couple of clan members stacking the same team
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I don't mean to put words in your mouth, @Incabin.
I think I get it. It's not the skill you're offended by, but the selfish, inconsiderate manner in which it's relentlessly thrown at you.
We require communication at TG. You don't have to have a mic, but you must hear them and respond when your team tries to collaborate with you. If you can't manage that, you're removed after warnings without ceremony.
It's common that these players you're talking about -- who seemingly prioritize winning above all else and have the means to provide it for themselves fairly unconditionally -- fail at communication. Perhaps they're not used to working with a team (why bother, right?). Perhaps it's beneath them. Perhaps they're on the phone with their girlfriend. I dunno. But we don't tolerate extended communication failures.
But our intolerance is born of a lack of communication, not their skill.
And I said it's common, but it's not representative, really. Most of the players (and, of course, all of the regulars) who have this all-dominant skill DO communicate, and they ARE welcome.
Maybe it's because you/your team has no skill?
This game is geared towards skilled players. Not-skilled-enough players can still enjoy the game if they are not sore-losers.
Also please do not take this as an insult, that's just how this game works.
I actually don't remember a point in his first post that inferred that he was tired of losing. Is there a reason why you typed up your reply? It seems to miss the point, either way.
I find stacking annoying too - and I'm usually on the winning side. Stacking is something that, even with a total randomisation, will never completely go away (though it will improve it somewhat). But that is quite different to what the OP is mentioning - deliberate stacking.
So, please, learn to read. And before you say, "well you should still improve your skill" - what if you can't? Boohoo go play another game? How about just implement a system whereby deliberate stacking can't really happen? "But what if I want to play on the same team as my buddy? Two counters: 1. Have the system be on some servers only. Or 2. More convoluted, have buddies say who they want in their buddy system and upon a random, so long as both teams are balanced you will get to be on the same team as them.
As for the elo system mentioned by dePara - while it is better I have typed "b_ranks" into the console only to see the shuffle present with one overall rank being a few hundred above the other - that should never happen. It should always be within around 100 points.
I don't think it's right to kick someone just because they're good at the game, unless the server specifically states that it's geared towards new/lower skilled players.
However, I also think that good players shouldn't go out of their way to play on the same team as other good players, as that just ruins the fun for anyone (including, I would think, the good players themselves - I mean, if you're a competitive-level player do you really gain satisfaction from killing people who have 20 hours logged?). It's unfortunate that so often players with badges or clan tags will purposefully play on the same team, it would be so much better if they tried to keep the game fair and balance each other out
I go out of my way to lose, so I join Mendasp no.3 gorge EU
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
The game is rather unenjoyable from a low skill perspective, and the game periodically punishes players with lower skill the further a match goes on. You may tell players that they just need to train better, but let's be honest, there are limits to the personal skill level of each individual player. After a while they will just get frustrated and go play another more accessible game.
It doesn't help that the community pushes down competitive play down our throats when the game itself doesn't even support competitive play. We don't have a Dota2 like system where teams can face off against other teams, with matchmaking and all that. An elo ranking system or whatever it's called would probably be beneficial in reducing the chances of a total stomp happening for new players.
Some people bought the game to have fun... it aint fun if you dont have a single, little chance to win.
@ people who love to play with high skilled pro players to get better:
let play a match & somebody activate an aimbot (even more skilled aim) with 95% perfect aim.
question:
1. would it be fun for you ?
2. would you feel honored to get killed ?
3. would you learn something from it ? (to get better)
let people just play EQUAL skilled matches to have fun,
when they are coming home and want to play a match after work as a casual player WITHOUT:
- lets analyse pro skilled players
- lets watch competitive matches to get better tactics / more skill
- lets create a thread in the competitive forum to learn more about skill in this game
is "hugh jeremy" as a casual player interested in a fun / equal skilled match ?
or would he like to play "only" against stacked skilled player with a competitive skill in mind ?
poeople are buying games to have fun:
- its no fun to lose because of stacked teams
- but yes its fun to win if your in a stacked team (sometimes)
- even more fun is to win with equal skilled teams in a match with a back & forth and so on
in my opinion:
its not about low, mid or high skill...
its just about balanced teams for a good long match with back & forth, switching map control and so on.
as i understand the first post, the thread is about stacked teams not about high skilled players.
all in all: i hate stacked teams too, no fun more me either.
It's not about being the best, but rather about always improving. Winning is only so satisfactory, over time..
So much truth in this, when I play I actually get angry when I die or mess up something, not at the game, but at myself. Demanding of myself that I always play better and playing so that I can do that.
Honestly, on the rare occasions when I do play on an american server (all australian ones are unpopulated after a certain hour or until afternoon most week days) I don't really care if the only server I could manage to get into (due to ping, reserved slots or known ABYSMAL performance, srsly, why do all american servers go under 30 ticks mid/late game?) is filled with average players that I'm going to slaughter. I'm just glad I have the chance to have some form of practice. I'd PREFER more challenging enemies, but when the range of servers to pick from is so small there's not much I can do about that.
If OP (or whoever said it) really has NO drive at all to be better at the game, why even play? For whatever reason you do choose to, why is it ok for you to have fun "playing" the game but not ok for us to try and "play" our way too?
No player should be forbidden from playing on a server (UNLESS THE SERVER NAME SAYS ROOKIE ONLY) unless they are trolling in some way. That sort of discrimination is just going to break up the community into small groups which will then die out because they're so small.
The game is rather unenjoyable from a low skill perspective, and the game periodically punishes players with lower skill the further a match goes on. You may tell players that they just need to train better, but let's be honest, there are limits to the personal skill level of each individual player. After a while they will just get frustrated and go play another more accessible game.
It doesn't help that the community pushes down competitive play down our throats when the game itself doesn't even support competitive play. We don't have a Dota2 like system where teams can face off against other teams, with matchmaking and all that. An elo ranking system or whatever it's called would probably be beneficial in reducing the chances of a total stomp happening for new players.
I agree that the community is not entirely to blame for low player retention rates, there are certain gameplay aspects that simply aren't rookie-friendly no matter which way you cut it. It's hard to learn how to play the fade when you normally only get one chance to play it during a game, and if you die you need to wait until next time. I have a friend who aim-wise is better at shooters than I am but has never been able to get into this game, despite his respect for its depth and design choices, because it's simply too unforgiving.
What I find odd is how little attention Combat has been given. It's a very natural setting for new players to learn how to use higher level tech without fear of losing it permanently when they die. If UWE hyped up combat half as much as they hype up the competitive scene player retention might very well improve.
The game is rather unenjoyable from a low skill perspective, and the game periodically punishes players with lower skill the further a match goes on. You may tell players that they just need to train better, but let's be honest, there are limits to the personal skill level of each individual player. After a while they will just get frustrated and go play another more accessible game.
I actually entirely disagree. There IS a difference between the maximum potential of players, but I think it is actually quite small and no where NEAR what many people say it is. I think it almost entirely comes down to time, effort, and will. You take any player that has played this SINCE RELEASE and is STILL quite average or less, and I assure you, they COULD be just as good as any other pro player if they wanted it bad enough. If they really took the time to get better, and I don't mean a little bit of "I'm going to start trying to kill things more". THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, they would have to really MEAN it, if they're not completely into it then it won't go far. They WILL improve, but not even close to their maximum potential. I've seen pro players (not in this game) that became members of a professional high tier team only 6 MONTHS after starting a game, and MORE than pulling their weight. It's because they actually WORKED FOR IT. It's not EASY to do that but it IS possible if you want it enough.
What numbers are you refering to? "Low rates", compared to what? What other game has higher rates and why exactly? You simply speculate.
there are certain gameplay aspects that simply aren't rookie-friendly no matter which way you cut it. It's hard to learn how to play the fade when you normally only get one chance to play it during a game, and if you die you need to wait until next time.
There are -dozens- of guides, you can play combat, you can watch competitive fade players, you can train in the sandbox with cheats, there are people everywhere offering their help as personal trainers, what else do you need? If you want an easy-to-learn game that every new player can become good in within 30 minutes, go and play CoD, BF4 and all the other mainstream games, there are a lot of them if they satisfy you.
I have a friend who aim-wise is better at shooters than I am but has never been able to get into this game, despite his respect for its depth and design choices, because it's simply too unforgiving.
Did he say this? "Too unforgiving"? Play combat. Not losing your lifeform when you die would simply destroy the entire sense of the game. What about chess? You make one mistake and boom - queen gone. Chess is such an unforgiving game, and so hard to learn, *Cry cry*
What I find odd is how little attention Combat has been given. It's a very natural setting for new players to learn how to use higher level tech without fear of losing it permanently when they die. If UWE hyped up combat half as much as they hype up the competitive scene player retention might very well improve.
This can be true, combat was much better in NS1. But on NS1 there were also many combat-only players who where missing for the normal game. If this would've improved "player retention" or not is pure speculation again.
This is just turning in another "I just had a few bad games and now I cry and moan about things I have no clue about, and I - as the most experienced person here - know why exactly <the game is dying>"-thread.
The game is rather unenjoyable from a low skill perspective, and the game periodically punishes players with lower skill the further a match goes on. You may tell players that they just need to train better, but let's be honest, there are limits to the personal skill level of each individual player. After a while they will just get frustrated and go play another more accessible game.
I actually entirely disagree. There IS a difference between the maximum potential of players, but I think it is actually quite small and no where NEAR what many people say it is. I think it almost entirely comes down to time, effort, and will. You take any player that has played this SINCE RELEASE and is STILL quite average or less, and I assure you, they COULD be just as good as any other pro player if they wanted it bad enough. If they really took the time to get better, and I don't mean a little bit of "I'm going to start trying to kill things more". THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, they would have to really MEAN it, if they're not completely into it then it won't go far. They WILL improve, but not even close to their maximum potential. I've seen pro players (not in this game) that became members of a professional high tier team only 6 MONTHS after starting a game, and MORE than pulling their weight. It's because they actually WORKED FOR IT. It's not EASY to do that but it IS possible if you want it enough.
I think you are quite delusional. You basically come off saying "well I'm good so why can't everyone be as good as me".
And my answer to that is also the one to your other question.
If OP (or whoever said it) really has NO drive at all to be better at the game, why even play? For whatever reason you do choose to, why is it ok for you to have fun "playing" the game but not ok for us to try and "play" our way too?
Seriously, how condescending and stuck up are you? Do you really think the sole reason people participate in hobbies is exclusive to "getting better"? Yes, it is ok for me and the general public to have fun "playing" and it is not ok for you to "play your way" when it is ruining the enjoyment of other people.
The game is rather unenjoyable from a low skill perspective, and the game periodically punishes players with lower skill the further a match goes on. You may tell players that they just need to train better, but let's be honest, there are limits to the personal skill level of each individual player. After a while they will just get frustrated and go play another more accessible game.
I actually entirely disagree. There IS a difference between the maximum potential of players, but I think it is actually quite small and no where NEAR what many people say it is. I think it almost entirely comes down to time, effort, and will. You take any player that has played this SINCE RELEASE and is STILL quite average or less, and I assure you, they COULD be just as good as any other pro player if they wanted it bad enough. If they really took the time to get better, and I don't mean a little bit of "I'm going to start trying to kill things more". THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, they would have to really MEAN it, if they're not completely into it then it won't go far. They WILL improve, but not even close to their maximum potential. I've seen pro players (not in this game) that became members of a professional high tier team only 6 MONTHS after starting a game, and MORE than pulling their weight. It's because they actually WORKED FOR IT. It's not EASY to do that but it IS possible if you want it enough.
I think you are quite delusional. You basically come off saying "well I'm good so why can't everyone be as good as me".
And my answer to that is also the one to your other question.
If OP (or whoever said it) really has NO drive at all to be better at the game, why even play? For whatever reason you do choose to, why is it ok for you to have fun "playing" the game but not ok for us to try and "play" our way too?
Seriously, how condescending and stuck up are you? Do you really think the sole reason people participate in hobbies is exclusive to "getting better"? Yes, it is ok for me and the general public to have fun "playing" and it is not ok for you to "play your way" when it is ruining the enjoyment of other people.
1. I'm not good.
2. I literally can not comprehend not wanting to do whatever it is you are doing at any given time better than you are currently doing it. Obviously HOW MUCH better varies, but I cannot understand how someone could not want to do ANY better at all. I'm almost certain people do not think that way.
3. Thanks for letting me know I'm not allowed to play the game. That's cool I guess. I mean it goes both ways, you not allowing me to play is ruining my (and anyone like me)'s enjoyment too, but it's good to see you only see your half of it.
2. I literally can not comprehend not wanting to do whatever it is you are doing at any given time better than you are currently doing it. Obviously HOW MUCH better varies, but I cannot understand how someone could not want to do ANY better at all. I'm almost certain people do not think that way.
Yeah, a lot of people enjoy just playing a game at a casual level and arn't worried about increasing their skill level, fyi.
2. I literally can not comprehend not wanting to do whatever it is you are doing at any given time better than you are currently doing it. Obviously HOW MUCH better varies, but I cannot understand how someone could not want to do ANY better at all. I'm almost certain people do not think that way.
Yeah, a lot of people enjoy just playing a game at a casual level and arn't worried about increasing their skill level, fyi.
Even at a casual level though people want to be better. If you really are saying that you do not want to get ANY better at all. Then what you are saying is that YOU won't advance, so the whole world has to come down to your level and STAY there.
Even at a casual level though people want to be better. If you really are saying that you do not want to get ANY better at all. Then what you are saying is that YOU won't advance, so the whole world has to come down to your level and STAY there.
Yeah. Ok.
Yes, speak for everyone and put words in my mouth. Condescending and stuck up to the extreme.
what developers are doing on ns2:
-Cory (Graphics Artist) is working on eclipse assets
-mappers are working on the eclipse map
-sewlek is working on game balance
but yes: the other devs are working on a new project
Even at a casual level though people want to be better. If you really are saying that you do not want to get ANY better at all. Then what you are saying is that YOU won't advance, so the whole world has to come down to your level and STAY there.
Yeah. Ok.
Yes, speak for everyone and put words in my mouth. Condescending and stuck up to the extreme.
as i know: there are no game breaking flaws, issues
Whips? No research for tunnels?
The former being irritating as fuck in competitive play (except at the HIGHEST level) and also annoying in pubs (thank god they don't know how to spam them yet). The latter completely destroying pubs due to the high player count and as such how many tunnels can be put down.
The game is rather unenjoyable from a low skill perspective, and the game periodically punishes players with lower skill the further a match goes on. You may tell players that they just need to train better, but let's be honest, there are limits to the personal skill level of each individual player. After a while they will just get frustrated and go play another more accessible game.
I actually entirely disagree. There IS a difference between the maximum potential of players, but I think it is actually quite small and no where NEAR what many people say it is. I think it almost entirely comes down to time, effort, and will. You take any player that has played this SINCE RELEASE and is STILL quite average or less, and I assure you, they COULD be just as good as any other pro player if they wanted it bad enough. If they really took the time to get better, and I don't mean a little bit of "I'm going to start trying to kill things more". THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, they would have to really MEAN it, if they're not completely into it then it won't go far. They WILL improve, but not even close to their maximum potential. I've seen pro players (not in this game) that became members of a professional high tier team only 6 MONTHS after starting a game, and MORE than pulling their weight. It's because they actually WORKED FOR IT. It's not EASY to do that but it IS possible if you want it enough.
Listen, I was in bi-weekly competitive test matches for nearly a year with some of the greatest players of this game. You can say I chickened out because I lost the drive to continue in that environment, but you need to understand that not everyone can justify going the extra mile to try to get better at a game that is already treating you like a burden.
The game is rather unenjoyable from a low skill perspective, and the game periodically punishes players with lower skill the further a match goes on. You may tell players that they just need to train better, but let's be honest, there are limits to the personal skill level of each individual player. After a while they will just get frustrated and go play another more accessible game.
I actually entirely disagree. There IS a difference between the maximum potential of players, but I think it is actually quite small and no where NEAR what many people say it is. I think it almost entirely comes down to time, effort, and will. You take any player that has played this SINCE RELEASE and is STILL quite average or less, and I assure you, they COULD be just as good as any other pro player if they wanted it bad enough. If they really took the time to get better, and I don't mean a little bit of "I'm going to start trying to kill things more". THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, they would have to really MEAN it, if they're not completely into it then it won't go far. They WILL improve, but not even close to their maximum potential. I've seen pro players (not in this game) that became members of a professional high tier team only 6 MONTHS after starting a game, and MORE than pulling their weight. It's because they actually WORKED FOR IT. It's not EASY to do that but it IS possible if you want it enough.
Listen, I was in bi-weekly competitive test matches for nearly a year with some of the greatest players of this game. You can say I chickened out because I lost the drive to continue in that environment, but you need to understand that not everyone can justify going the extra mile to try to get better at a game that is already treating you like a burden.
I totally get that, and you've missed my point, those people don't WANT to be better, they kinda do, but when it comes down to it, they just don't care enough. That's OK, not everything is for everyone, but those people can't do that and then complain about not being good enough or other people being better.
The game is not aimed at casual players, if you're here to just have fun then your going to get smashed. Casual players put up with this because they enjoy the game as a whole and can take loosing. If you don't like being smashed and have no drive to better yourself, find another game. I heard CoD/BF3 has mechanics that help shit players get kills
If you have been gaming since the 90's... I do not understand how you don't know this fact. You are from the Quake / Wolf ET / HL1 generation, where skill > everything else.
I totally get that, and you've missed my point, those people don't WANT to be better, they kinda do, but when it comes down to it, they just don't care enough. That's OK, not everything is for everyone, but those people can't do that and then complain about not being good enough or other people being better.
No one is missing your point. The problem is that you are speaking on behalf of people on an invalid assumption.
The game is not aimed at casual players, if you're here to just have fun then your going to get smashed. Casual players put up with this because they enjoy the game as a whole and can take loosing. If you don't like being smashed and have no drive to better yourself, find another game. I heard CoD/BF3 has mechanics that help shit players get kills
If you have been gaming since the 90's... I do not understand how you don't know this fact. You are from the Quake / Wolf ET / HL1 generation, where skill > everything else.
You are a perfect example of why the community is killing this game.
Comments
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133155/me-my-elo-and-i#latest
I dont know how you two are getting the idea of removing people because I lose all the time. Complaining about not winning and complaining about not having fun because of skill stackage are pretty mutually exclusive. Its not fun being on the stacked team. Its boring winning by default. Its boring having teams surrender or F4 out early games. Its boring having that one person get all the kills. And its horrible to be stomped all over.
IMHO, being a sports fan, I'd be honored to get smashed by a pro... "Yeah, Mr. Manning, sorry this community wants you to leave cuz you're a future HOF and this is a super serious, super important COMMUNITY FOOTBALL GAME. Real football players not welcome."
Yeah right... You wont get any better playing against scrubs all the time.
However, I also think that good players shouldn't go out of their way to play on the same team as other good players, as that just ruins the fun for anyone (including, I would think, the good players themselves - I mean, if you're a competitive-level player do you really gain satisfaction from killing people who have 20 hours logged?). It's unfortunate that so often players with badges or clan tags will purposefully play on the same team, it would be so much better if they tried to keep the game fair and balance each other out
EDIT: and before some L2Per jumps down my throat, I think that there should also be requirements and expectations of new players too... for example, someone who has 2 hours and jumps into the comm chair is just as capable of ruining the balance of a game as a couple of clan members stacking the same team
I think I get it. It's not the skill you're offended by, but the selfish, inconsiderate manner in which it's relentlessly thrown at you.
We require communication at TG. You don't have to have a mic, but you must hear them and respond when your team tries to collaborate with you. If you can't manage that, you're removed after warnings without ceremony.
It's common that these players you're talking about -- who seemingly prioritize winning above all else and have the means to provide it for themselves fairly unconditionally -- fail at communication. Perhaps they're not used to working with a team (why bother, right?). Perhaps it's beneath them. Perhaps they're on the phone with their girlfriend. I dunno. But we don't tolerate extended communication failures.
But our intolerance is born of a lack of communication, not their skill.
And I said it's common, but it's not representative, really. Most of the players (and, of course, all of the regulars) who have this all-dominant skill DO communicate, and they ARE welcome.
I actually don't remember a point in his first post that inferred that he was tired of losing. Is there a reason why you typed up your reply? It seems to miss the point, either way.
I find stacking annoying too - and I'm usually on the winning side. Stacking is something that, even with a total randomisation, will never completely go away (though it will improve it somewhat). But that is quite different to what the OP is mentioning - deliberate stacking.
So, please, learn to read. And before you say, "well you should still improve your skill" - what if you can't? Boohoo go play another game? How about just implement a system whereby deliberate stacking can't really happen? "But what if I want to play on the same team as my buddy? Two counters: 1. Have the system be on some servers only. Or 2. More convoluted, have buddies say who they want in their buddy system and upon a random, so long as both teams are balanced you will get to be on the same team as them.
As for the elo system mentioned by dePara - while it is better I have typed "b_ranks" into the console only to see the shuffle present with one overall rank being a few hundred above the other - that should never happen. It should always be within around 100 points.
I go out of my way to lose, so I join Mendasp no.3 gorge EU
It doesn't help that the community pushes down competitive play down our throats when the game itself doesn't even support competitive play. We don't have a Dota2 like system where teams can face off against other teams, with matchmaking and all that. An elo ranking system or whatever it's called would probably be beneficial in reducing the chances of a total stomp happening for new players.
@ people who love to play with high skilled pro players to get better:
let play a match & somebody activate an aimbot (even more skilled aim) with 95% perfect aim.
question:
1. would it be fun for you ?
2. would you feel honored to get killed ?
3. would you learn something from it ? (to get better)
let people just play EQUAL skilled matches to have fun,
when they are coming home and want to play a match after work as a casual player WITHOUT:
- lets analyse pro skilled players
- lets watch competitive matches to get better tactics / more skill
- lets create a thread in the competitive forum to learn more about skill in this game
is "hugh jeremy" as a casual player interested in a fun / equal skilled match ?
or would he like to play "only" against stacked skilled player with a competitive skill in mind ?
poeople are buying games to have fun:
- its no fun to lose because of stacked teams
- but yes its fun to win if your in a stacked team (sometimes)
- even more fun is to win with equal skilled teams in a match with a back & forth and so on
in my opinion:
its not about low, mid or high skill...
its just about balanced teams for a good long match with back & forth, switching map control and so on.
as i understand the first post, the thread is about stacked teams not about high skilled players.
all in all: i hate stacked teams too, no fun more me either.
So much truth in this, when I play I actually get angry when I die or mess up something, not at the game, but at myself. Demanding of myself that I always play better and playing so that I can do that.
Honestly, on the rare occasions when I do play on an american server (all australian ones are unpopulated after a certain hour or until afternoon most week days) I don't really care if the only server I could manage to get into (due to ping, reserved slots or known ABYSMAL performance, srsly, why do all american servers go under 30 ticks mid/late game?) is filled with average players that I'm going to slaughter. I'm just glad I have the chance to have some form of practice. I'd PREFER more challenging enemies, but when the range of servers to pick from is so small there's not much I can do about that.
If OP (or whoever said it) really has NO drive at all to be better at the game, why even play? For whatever reason you do choose to, why is it ok for you to have fun "playing" the game but not ok for us to try and "play" our way too?
No player should be forbidden from playing on a server (UNLESS THE SERVER NAME SAYS ROOKIE ONLY) unless they are trolling in some way. That sort of discrimination is just going to break up the community into small groups which will then die out because they're so small.
I agree that the community is not entirely to blame for low player retention rates, there are certain gameplay aspects that simply aren't rookie-friendly no matter which way you cut it. It's hard to learn how to play the fade when you normally only get one chance to play it during a game, and if you die you need to wait until next time. I have a friend who aim-wise is better at shooters than I am but has never been able to get into this game, despite his respect for its depth and design choices, because it's simply too unforgiving.
What I find odd is how little attention Combat has been given. It's a very natural setting for new players to learn how to use higher level tech without fear of losing it permanently when they die. If UWE hyped up combat half as much as they hype up the competitive scene player retention might very well improve.
I actually entirely disagree. There IS a difference between the maximum potential of players, but I think it is actually quite small and no where NEAR what many people say it is. I think it almost entirely comes down to time, effort, and will. You take any player that has played this SINCE RELEASE and is STILL quite average or less, and I assure you, they COULD be just as good as any other pro player if they wanted it bad enough. If they really took the time to get better, and I don't mean a little bit of "I'm going to start trying to kill things more". THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, they would have to really MEAN it, if they're not completely into it then it won't go far. They WILL improve, but not even close to their maximum potential. I've seen pro players (not in this game) that became members of a professional high tier team only 6 MONTHS after starting a game, and MORE than pulling their weight. It's because they actually WORKED FOR IT. It's not EASY to do that but it IS possible if you want it enough.
There are -dozens- of guides, you can play combat, you can watch competitive fade players, you can train in the sandbox with cheats, there are people everywhere offering their help as personal trainers, what else do you need? If you want an easy-to-learn game that every new player can become good in within 30 minutes, go and play CoD, BF4 and all the other mainstream games, there are a lot of them if they satisfy you.
Did he say this? "Too unforgiving"? Play combat. Not losing your lifeform when you die would simply destroy the entire sense of the game. What about chess? You make one mistake and boom - queen gone. Chess is such an unforgiving game, and so hard to learn, *Cry cry*
This can be true, combat was much better in NS1. But on NS1 there were also many combat-only players who where missing for the normal game. If this would've improved "player retention" or not is pure speculation again.
This is just turning in another "I just had a few bad games and now I cry and moan about things I have no clue about, and I - as the most experienced person here - know why exactly <the game is dying>"-thread.
I think you are quite delusional. You basically come off saying "well I'm good so why can't everyone be as good as me".
And my answer to that is also the one to your other question.
Seriously, how condescending and stuck up are you? Do you really think the sole reason people participate in hobbies is exclusive to "getting better"? Yes, it is ok for me and the general public to have fun "playing" and it is not ok for you to "play your way" when it is ruining the enjoyment of other people.
1. I'm not good.
2. I literally can not comprehend not wanting to do whatever it is you are doing at any given time better than you are currently doing it. Obviously HOW MUCH better varies, but I cannot understand how someone could not want to do ANY better at all. I'm almost certain people do not think that way.
3. Thanks for letting me know I'm not allowed to play the game. That's cool I guess. I mean it goes both ways, you not allowing me to play is ruining my (and anyone like me)'s enjoyment too, but it's good to see you only see your half of it.
They've practically abandoned the game with so many exploits/flaws/issues.
Yeah, a lot of people enjoy just playing a game at a casual level and arn't worried about increasing their skill level, fyi.
Even at a casual level though people want to be better. If you really are saying that you do not want to get ANY better at all. Then what you are saying is that YOU won't advance, so the whole world has to come down to your level and STAY there.
Yeah. Ok.
Yes, speak for everyone and put words in my mouth. Condescending and stuck up to the extreme.
what developers are doing on ns2:
-Cory (Graphics Artist) is working on eclipse assets
-mappers are working on the eclipse map
-sewlek is working on game balance
but yes: the other devs are working on a new project
please name some - as i know: there are no game breaking flaws, issues and i dont know exploits.
I don't like you.
Whips? No research for tunnels?
The former being irritating as fuck in competitive play (except at the HIGHEST level) and also annoying in pubs (thank god they don't know how to spam them yet). The latter completely destroying pubs due to the high player count and as such how many tunnels can be put down.
Listen, I was in bi-weekly competitive test matches for nearly a year with some of the greatest players of this game. You can say I chickened out because I lost the drive to continue in that environment, but you need to understand that not everyone can justify going the extra mile to try to get better at a game that is already treating you like a burden.
I totally get that, and you've missed my point, those people don't WANT to be better, they kinda do, but when it comes down to it, they just don't care enough. That's OK, not everything is for everyone, but those people can't do that and then complain about not being good enough or other people being better.
If you have been gaming since the 90's... I do not understand how you don't know this fact. You are from the Quake / Wolf ET / HL1 generation, where skill > everything else.
No one is missing your point. The problem is that you are speaking on behalf of people on an invalid assumption.
You are a perfect example of why the community is killing this game.