fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I understand that this needs to be done before new years to secure favorable travel arrangements, but there has to be some way to organize/schedule this so that the most critical matches aren't played in what's pretty much the worst week of the year.
Awesome schedules! NOOOOT! Really, people DO have a life,relatives and actual holiday, and you have to spend that infront of the computer and play NS2? This seems to be decided by one person only.. and the guy who thought that the Tournament in UK should've been... Close spawns,no NSL maps, and no mods at all...
Good luck with that schedules. People have vacation time, journeys, traveling and meeting the families so called life. Sorry this timing was failure and people who have kid/s have less time to even thinking to play this. Community driven event I don't think so, more like forced cologne date (sorry I needed to say that ). Dunno how the holidays are in America.. Should have ask more before thinking to force to play in december.
World cup for the people who have time to do this. Sad that teams cannot give 100% performance for this event
A load of us just helped you raise a shedload of cash for this tourney and we are not particularly happy with it being at a time of year where it is hard for us to watch or take part. This is a poor use of the money we trusted you with really.
This is meant to be a spectacle to make NS2 standout to the rest of the gaming community too and potential new blood, but everyone is going to be out socialising or doing family stuff rather than watching. This devalues the tourney.
A load of us just helped you raise a shedload of cash for this tourney and we are not particularly happy with it being at a time of year where it is hard for us to watch or take part. This is a poor use of the money we trusted you with really.
This is meant to be a spectacle to make NS2 standout to the rest of the gaming community too and potential new blood, but everyone is going to be out socialising or doing family stuff rather than watching. This devalues the tourney.
Wonder how many will watch the streams under these dates.. TROLOLOL
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Just consider the Team Liquid event calendar for December for a minute. There's basically nothing on for the entire month of December.
I think it is crazy to run this tournament over Christmas. When you guys are sitting down wondering why attendance was less than expected don't forget that people warned you.
As an example, figure out how many of the UWE team will get a chance to watch the group stages. Then remember that we in Europe don't celebrate thanksgiving and that Christmas/New Years is the only winter holiday here.
I agree that if at all possible the scheduling should be moved to January for the Qualifiers for the reason everyone has posted above. THAT SAID, there is one other large issue lurking that will come with scheduling issues. The roster lock/no ringers rule except for exceptional circumstances. If this rule is going to be loosened it better be loosened NOW. Admins should not be deciding the day of a match whether they like a team enough to grant them exceptional circumstances because a player is at an Xmas party and they want to use a new player. Something teams should know about 3 weeks in advance is NOT an exceptional circumstance. Either allow players to be added up until the point they've played in a match for a team, or please make very clear so nobody is crying how an unavailable player is going to be handled NOW rather than later because I can gurantee you teams will be asking for this exception in 2 weeks.
"3. Players and Teams
(a) Players must enter the contest as a member of only a single team.
(b) Players may not play as a member of a team other than the single team they entered the contest as a part of.
(c) Players must use only a single SteamID during the contest.
(d) A team must be at all times during the contest composed only of the players originally registered at the point of registration as the constituents of that team.
(e) In exceptional circumstances, the organiser may at its discretion permit a team to change its roster of registered players during the contest after a representation from that team as to why such a change is justified. For example, illness or incapacitation of a team member.
4. Registration for Participation
(a) Teams may register only via the form found at the web page http://www.ns2wc.com/?page_id=2059 (‘registration form’)
(b) A team must be registered wholly and fully in the first instance"
Just consider the Team Liquid event calendar for December for a minute. There's basically nothing on for the entire month of December.
I think it is crazy to run this tournament over Christmas. When you guys are sitting down wondering why attendance was less than expected don't forget that people warned you.
As an example, figure out how many of the UWE team will get a chance to watch the group stages. Then remember that we in Europe don't celebrate thanksgiving and that Christmas/New Years is the only winter holiday here.
God damnit @puzl can you unretire please and try to save what is left of this game? I would buy a shadow badge for that!
honestly the dates aren't bad at all for the people who have time to do this.
I bet sponsors and donators loves to see downgraded tourney, just because the wrong timing. Nothing Good Ever Happens When You're in a Hurry , remember that @Hugh
The date announcement pretty much killed the whole event for me. I know I won't be playing in it because of it, and I probably won't be able to even find time to watch the matches .
The matches can be played earlier. I know my team has several members that will be gone between xmas and new years including myself. The timing isnt really ideal, but I am sure we will figure something out.
14. Special Form of Finals Series
The four winning teams from the Winners Bracket Quarterfinals will each select 6 players from their roster. Those selected will receive airfare and accommodations to the live event. Only those selected players will be permitted to play at the live event. All other players on the roster may attend but may not be allowed to be used as a substitute.
Why not allow substitutions in the finals? As opposed to what you may be thinking, it's actually a disadvantage because the new players are not warmed up.
So you qualify with 7-8 players, but the extra cannot play, that seems unfair...
Also I didn't see any notification of this change anywhere... should be more open with these changes so we can give feedback on them.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2013
Archaea brought 8 players and swapped out players between maps during both previous Cologne events. The swaps took 5 minutes max and did not cause any delays. It would also be possible to restrict swaps to only happen between matches, which would eliminate any and all delays. Swapping out players certainly isn't an advantage, as mendasp says, not just because of the swapped players coming in cold, but also because most teams have a "best 6".
This particular rule change therefore makes little sense. Given that the NS2WC is a "community event" for amateur players, I'm surprised at how rigid and cold the tournament setup is. This should be a chance for the community to come together, instead it almost feels like the players are just cattle to be herded around by some distant FIFA-like entity of admins.
Conspiracy theorists might be inclined to suspect that this is another attempt at preventing eissfeldt from playing, since Godar was planning on bringing eight players to the event. Cutting a player that played in the quarter final for someone who didn't play will certainly be difficult for them.
bonageJoin Date: 2012-10-13Member: 162230Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I would say the only reason why they're not allowing subs at the event is so that it is an even playing field for the teams coming from countries outside of EU would have to pay more to fly subs in.
I agree with fana though, It shouldn't matter if some teams have subs or not -- i think the core 6 players will be the best a team has anyway, and i don't see any major advantages of some teams having subs and some not for this reason.
I'm really not sure about the rule change either as I personally don't think it matters a whole lot.
I definitely don't think it is a conspiracy towards Eissfeldt, it was already discussed in private with himself and whoever was involved.
If anything it's just to make sure that both teams are on equal playing grounds. For example, teams coming from further away, may only be able to have 6 members go to the event. What if 1 of those members are not performing and wants to sit, or he eats a bad sausage the day before, well too bad for that team, they need to continue to use him. While the other team even if they have 1 or 2 players who are performing badly, yet their players lived nearby, and were able to drive to the tournament, they can switch out and replace those players.
That scenario to me at least does not seem fair, for those who are unable to substitute. Yes, they may not be as warmed up, but if a players is performing badly (which we all have our days), then even without a warmup that player will probably still do better. Imagine if the tournament was held in North America, and you were only able to afford to bring 6, then what?
Even if this rule was to stay in place, I think adding something about how if a player is ill or in certain circumstances it will be allowed to make a single substitute.
AiorosJoin Date: 2003-03-24Member: 14850Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2013
this tournament is a come together for people a "community event".
If you are scared about 8 people got an advantage over 6 people ... change the rule: The 6 players must be announced before a game, you can change the players befor your next match (opponent). You could also change it to the whole day, so even if one player isnt performing well you cant replace him.
So you would not gain any advantage @Syknik and you would also need to announce the players one day before.
Like saunaman versus snails they have to tell the players who are playing and they are not allowed to change them.
Because 95% of the teams and the same amount of the community dont care if its a few hundred dollar less or more in the prize pool. Or am i wrong?!?!
if its just about the fear @Syknik has, the rule change i suggested would fix it.
My only concern is that we are not able to see as many players as we could in RL.
I don't believe it has anything to do with the prize pool. I hadn't even thought about that, i'm assuming even if 8 went, they'd give the amount as if it were 6 only, and have the team divide up the amount to make it equal, with the addition of the other 2 players.
And also, don't forget the studio can only fit so many people, from what I heard the tickets were already sold out. No clue about what would happen if teams who have more than 6 players decided to go, and some of the players did not have a ticket to the event.
AiorosJoin Date: 2003-03-24Member: 14850Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2013
The arena can handle more players, because they have areas for the teams to warmup when other teams are playing. 2 or even 10 more players of a team dont matter. i changed my post and the rules i would suggest.
I only want to be able to see as many people as possible there, since i life close to "cologne".
They should change the rule in favor to have as many people there as possible, but have the teams an equal terms.
Yeah, having a static six for each match sounds the most fair and a good compromise, all the players still get to go (only 6 paid) and even if some don't play at least they can be there...
There a few rules i don't agree with also. Like the once you send your roster list in, it cant be changed and if someone wanted to build another team they cant there on a list that has been sent in. But sign up's are not finsihed till the 1st. I think changes should be let. You guys are making changes as we speak to rules.......
1. It in some way caters to the wider community (not completely, so calm down pedants)
2. It caters to the more competitive people
I don't think anyone cares enough to say that one or two people cannot be substituted in the semi-finals, just for the sake of allowing others to get involved. The only counter I could muster is to say, "well if you want to play, play for another team" - but what if that is your team and group of friends? You wouldn't want to risk playing against them (improbable but plausible).
Relax that rule. As Fana and Tane point out, we're doing this isn't the Olympics or the World Cup - this is a community event. As they say, let the man have a drink.
In addition to things already mentioned, rules regarding the player roster and its use should be set to stone as soon as possible. Demanding teams to register permanent rosters and then making changes to the rules regarding the roster is a no-go.
For example I can very easily see someone deciding to drop out of a lineup and looking for possibilities elsewhere if they're in the 7th or 8th slot in the team and not necessarily allowed to play in the LAN lineup.
It's really rough to start competition inside your clan when you have seven or eight active players who all wants to play. These kind of rules makes people literally cry. Don't really understand the rule because like Fana said it's always better use as small roster as possible.
This is starting to feel less and less like a community tournament, the rules keep getting harsher and harsher. They are already way past most other official tournaments that other games have and this just makes it even more ridiculous.
The timing is a complete joke as the matches are played at times where gaming is the least important thing to do. But now we also have to consider that 2 players have to sacrifice their chance to play in the studio. I thought this was an event for people to have fun in but somehow I keep getting less motivated for it.
Also I didn't see any notification of this change anywhere... should be more open with these changes so we can give feedback on them.
This bears repeating by the way. Right now people are building rosters according to the rules, later on they'll be playing games and practising according to the rules. It's no good if people have to be paranoid about ninja changes.
"Anyone can be a part of it"... except:
- if you don't want to spend your Xmas playing matches and practicing hard.
- if you are not one of the 28 teams it is limited to.
- if you are not one of the team members chosen to be on the roster.
- if you didn't have time to find a team in the pointlessly short amount of time given to do so.
Comments
So we can have real christmas holidays...
Admins, think again, and do it right plz..
AS we say in Sweden, "Gör om, gör rätt"
World cup for the people who have time to do this. Sad that teams cannot give 100% performance for this event
This is meant to be a spectacle to make NS2 standout to the rest of the gaming community too and potential new blood, but everyone is going to be out socialising or doing family stuff rather than watching. This devalues the tourney.
Wonder how many will watch the streams under these dates.. TROLOLOL
I think it is crazy to run this tournament over Christmas. When you guys are sitting down wondering why attendance was less than expected don't forget that people warned you.
As an example, figure out how many of the UWE team will get a chance to watch the group stages. Then remember that we in Europe don't celebrate thanksgiving and that Christmas/New Years is the only winter holiday here.
"3. Players and Teams
(a) Players must enter the contest as a member of only a single team.
(b) Players may not play as a member of a team other than the single team they entered the contest as a part of.
(c) Players must use only a single SteamID during the contest.
(d) A team must be at all times during the contest composed only of the players originally registered at the point of registration as the constituents of that team.
(e) In exceptional circumstances, the organiser may at its discretion permit a team to change its roster of registered players during the contest after a representation from that team as to why such a change is justified. For example, illness or incapacitation of a team member.
4. Registration for Participation
(a) Teams may register only via the form found at the web page http://www.ns2wc.com/?page_id=2059 (‘registration form’)
(b) A team must be registered wholly and fully in the first instance"
God damnit @puzl can you unretire please and try to save what is left of this game? I would buy a shadow badge for that!
I bet sponsors and donators loves to see downgraded tourney, just because the wrong timing. Nothing Good Ever Happens When You're in a Hurry , remember that @Hugh
14. Special Form of Finals Series
The four winning teams from the Winners Bracket Quarterfinals will each select 6 players from their roster. Those selected will receive airfare and accommodations to the live event. Only those selected players will be permitted to play at the live event. All other players on the roster may attend but may not be allowed to be used as a substitute.
Why not allow substitutions in the finals? As opposed to what you may be thinking, it's actually a disadvantage because the new players are not warmed up.
So you qualify with 7-8 players, but the extra cannot play, that seems unfair...
Also I didn't see any notification of this change anywhere... should be more open with these changes so we can give feedback on them.
This particular rule change therefore makes little sense. Given that the NS2WC is a "community event" for amateur players, I'm surprised at how rigid and cold the tournament setup is. This should be a chance for the community to come together, instead it almost feels like the players are just cattle to be herded around by some distant FIFA-like entity of admins.
Conspiracy theorists might be inclined to suspect that this is another attempt at preventing eissfeldt from playing, since Godar was planning on bringing eight players to the event. Cutting a player that played in the quarter final for someone who didn't play will certainly be difficult for them.
I agree with fana though, It shouldn't matter if some teams have subs or not -- i think the core 6 players will be the best a team has anyway, and i don't see any major advantages of some teams having subs and some not for this reason.
I definitely don't think it is a conspiracy towards Eissfeldt, it was already discussed in private with himself and whoever was involved.
If anything it's just to make sure that both teams are on equal playing grounds. For example, teams coming from further away, may only be able to have 6 members go to the event. What if 1 of those members are not performing and wants to sit, or he eats a bad sausage the day before, well too bad for that team, they need to continue to use him. While the other team even if they have 1 or 2 players who are performing badly, yet their players lived nearby, and were able to drive to the tournament, they can switch out and replace those players.
That scenario to me at least does not seem fair, for those who are unable to substitute. Yes, they may not be as warmed up, but if a players is performing badly (which we all have our days), then even without a warmup that player will probably still do better. Imagine if the tournament was held in North America, and you were only able to afford to bring 6, then what?
Even if this rule was to stay in place, I think adding something about how if a player is ill or in certain circumstances it will be allowed to make a single substitute.
Just my opinion.
If you are scared about 8 people got an advantage over 6 people ... change the rule: The 6 players must be announced before a game, you can change the players befor your next match (opponent). You could also change it to the whole day, so even if one player isnt performing well you cant replace him.
So you would not gain any advantage @Syknik and you would also need to announce the players one day before.
Like saunaman versus snails they have to tell the players who are playing and they are not allowed to change them.
Because 95% of the teams and the same amount of the community dont care if its a few hundred dollar less or more in the prize pool. Or am i wrong?!?!
if its just about the fear @Syknik has, the rule change i suggested would fix it.
My only concern is that we are not able to see as many players as we could in RL.
And also, don't forget the studio can only fit so many people, from what I heard the tickets were already sold out. No clue about what would happen if teams who have more than 6 players decided to go, and some of the players did not have a ticket to the event.
I only want to be able to see as many people as possible there, since i life close to "cologne".
They should change the rule in favor to have as many people there as possible, but have the teams an equal terms.
1. It in some way caters to the wider community (not completely, so calm down pedants)
2. It caters to the more competitive people
I don't think anyone cares enough to say that one or two people cannot be substituted in the semi-finals, just for the sake of allowing others to get involved. The only counter I could muster is to say, "well if you want to play, play for another team" - but what if that is your team and group of friends? You wouldn't want to risk playing against them (improbable but plausible).
Relax that rule. As Fana and Tane point out, we're doing this isn't the Olympics or the World Cup - this is a community event. As they say, let the man have a drink.
For example I can very easily see someone deciding to drop out of a lineup and looking for possibilities elsewhere if they're in the 7th or 8th slot in the team and not necessarily allowed to play in the LAN lineup.
The timing is a complete joke as the matches are played at times where gaming is the least important thing to do. But now we also have to consider that 2 players have to sacrifice their chance to play in the studio. I thought this was an event for people to have fun in but somehow I keep getting less motivated for it.
- if you don't want to spend your Xmas playing matches and practicing hard.
- if you are not one of the 28 teams it is limited to.
- if you are not one of the team members chosen to be on the roster.
- if you didn't have time to find a team in the pointlessly short amount of time given to do so.