What I wana see is something for the commander when they drop a cyst. Like a ring around the cyst showing how far out it will reach when attempting to put it down. Kind of like the ring around the obs but you get to make sure the cyst you put down reaches everywhere you want it to.
I guess you mean it's effect of infestation ? Or other cysts (links)? Or both?
Anyway: these are all things you could just call 'commander skill', part learning curve, part talent for estimating.
What I wana see is something for the commander when they drop a cyst. Like a ring around the cyst showing how far out it will reach when attempting to put it down. Kind of like the ring around the obs but you get to make sure the cyst you put down reaches everywhere you want it to.
I guess you mean it's effect of infestation ? Or other cysts (links)? Or both?
Anyway: these are all things you could just call 'commander skill', part learning curve, part talent for estimating.
I mean when I'm about to drop a single cyst, I want a circle hovering around it so that I know everything in that circle will have infestation.
cysts should be made stronger and be made more important for the aliens such as for structure building/destruction, give flamethrower an even more cost reduction in pres. Doing this may actually give an incentive for other weapons to be used and possibly even in comp play. Gives more variety and more variety for tactics.
cysts should be made stronger and be made more important for the aliens such as for structure building/destruction, give flamethrower an even more cost reduction in pres. Doing this may actually give an incentive for other weapons to be used and possibly even in comp play. Gives more variety and more variety for tactics.
I like the thought of balancing the game to allow more diversity on marines seems kind of like we went from fade balls to jp/shotty balls. But I do not think that is the best way.
Flamethrowers already have enough benefits (hard counter to bile/lerk gases/drifter clouds/whips) that keeping 1-2 (pending game size) around is really a good idea. Of course if the marines are not having issues with any of those they would not really be necessary. I also fear giving much more incentive to use a FT would exacerbate the issue of 3 man marine squads running around around all using FTs in pubs and losing them instantly because they have no burst damage.
And yes, a single cyst is not too much to kill next to a node or anything. It's when the kham has cysted every room with 10 fucking cysts it becomes rediculous. You simply CAN'T clear the whole room before either A. aliens show up and either stall you indefinitely or kill you after you use bullets, or B. the kham echos whips onto you.
Also, @F0rdPrefect I really hate the auto cyst system as it makes precise cysting so much harder, half the time it wants to connect to some other chain and the other half it just tries to put one in between the cyst you want and the last cyst you have. You should be able to turn it off as an option in the kham UI and use only manual cysting if you wish.
Also the fact that if you drop two chains out of your hive in two different directions only one chain will start growing, the other will not start until the first chain has completely finished, is pretty dumb. But that's for another thread.
That's why you get a flamethrower (yes those have uses!)
This is the only good counter argument. Unfortunately they're very expensive and unless you have a JP you're effectively unable to defend yourself if you need to. Better hope your buddies don't miss and don't wander. Perhaps if they were reduced to 15pres like the GL? It's always confused me that the GL can be so damn cheap and yet SOOO damn good at its job and yet the FL is no the completely opposite side of the scale. It can do its job, but compared to how easy it is with the GL (massive range aoe building smack down vs close range cyst popper/energy regen killing/passive building effect stopping)?
Cysts are alright. There are just strong enough to make you not want to attack them at all unless the situation calls for it. Which is a good balance, objectively speaking.
They are also just strong enough to be irritating to shoot/whack at. I can't trust random pubbers to watch my back while I have my face on the floor. I also can't trust random pubbers to cover me when I have to reload shells after shooting a few cysts.
Cysts are alright. There are just strong enough to make you not want to attack them at all unless the situation calls for it. Which is a good balance, objectively speaking.
They are also just strong enough to be irritating to shoot/whack at. I can't trust random pubbers to watch my back while I have my face on the floor. I also can't trust random pubbers to cover me when I have to reload shells after shooting a few cysts.
The problem is, the situation always calls for it. There's no reason not to (unless going for ninja moves).
Er - 1 tres, 1 tres, see the connection? We could make Gorges cost 25 res, as both they and Lerks are killed by 1 mag too - oh wait, the cost of the cyst is rather relevant to how much of an effect on the game it has. Does this help you understand how redundant the 'one mag' argument is?
I have the feeling you haven't really considered your own question, G3 ... early game immature cyst not killed by one mag apparently not a problem to you, but mature cysts, which *are* killed within 1 mag by weapons upgraded, which as you are talking 6v6 happens very early, is a problem?
Infact, do you Khamm? Because cysts die easily enough to confound the Khamm, even on 2v2.
Er - 1 tres, 1 tres, see the connection? We could make Gorges cost 25 res, as both they and Lerks are killed by 1 mag too - oh wait, the cost of the cyst is rather relevant to how much of an effect on the game it has. Does this help you understand how redundant the 'one mag' argument is?
/facepalm that's a new level of stupid right there.
EDIT: Just so you know, you just said 1 marine tres is equal to 1 alien tres.
Cysts are like hair, if you're always taking care of it, it doesn't become an issue. However if you neglect it for a long period of time, suddenly it becomes a huge pain to deal with.
Having a single player roaming and chopping away at cysts pisses the alien khammander off and keeps the cyst from maturing making them easy to kill whenever they're replaced. Not to mention things like welders and flamethrowers exist and are stupidly effective at dealing with cysts.
Remember, the game is being balanced around 8v8ish.
EDIT: Just so you know, you just said 1 marine tres is equal to 1 alien tres.
Last I checked, marines and aliens gained res at an equal rate assuming an equal number of resource towers. This means 1 marine TRES is equivalent to 1 alien TRES. it's just that uwe decided to make alien commanding one stupidly giant res sink, which is why there seems to be a res discrepancy between marine and alien TRES spending.
Last I checked, marines and aliens gained res at an equal rate assuming an equal number of resource towers. This means 1 marine TRES is equivalent to 1 alien TRES. it's just that uwe decided to make alien commanding one stupidly giant res sink, which is why there seems to be a res discrepancy between marine and alien TRES spending.
Which is why they're not equal. You gain at the same rate yes, but one is worth more than the other per unit.
Last I checked, marines and aliens gained res at an equal rate assuming an equal number of resource towers. This means 1 marine TRES is equivalent to 1 alien TRES. it's just that uwe decided to make alien commanding one stupidly giant res sink, which is why there seems to be a res discrepancy between marine and alien TRES spending.
Which is why they're not equal. You gain at the same rate yes, but one is worth more than the other per unit.
They're both worth 1 res.
If two people living in the same household are given $1, and one spends 75cents on rent, and the other spends 50cents on rent. that doesn't mean the person who spent 50cents has a better $1, it just means cost allocation is different. I know what you're trying to say, but 1 tick of res is exactly 1tick of res. if it was any different aliens would gain res at a different rate than marines.
Marines are balanced around the commander dropping meds and ammo periodically (which is a terrible decision in my opinion), if you were to play a game where you dropped very little, if any at all, medpacks and ammopacks you'd probably end up with armour 2, weapons 2, and phase gates by the 5 or 6 minute mark, assuming your marines won more engagements than they lost.
A lot of commanders spend ridiculous amounts of res on those, Personally I only drop medpacks and ammo packs if the marine is holding a forward position, and would be capable of continuing to hold it with limited ammo/medpack support, or (in the case of ammo) harassing the alien economy/upgrades. otherwise it's much cheaper to drop an armory. After the moment it heals and resupplies marines a total of 5 times it has paid itself off, every heal afterwards is saved res. (if you lose the position you can recycle it and get between 5 and 7.5 res back)
Last I checked, marines and aliens gained res at an equal rate assuming an equal number of resource towers. This means 1 marine TRES is equivalent to 1 alien TRES. it's just that uwe decided to make alien commanding one stupidly giant res sink, which is why there seems to be a res discrepancy between marine and alien TRES spending.
Which is why they're not equal. You gain at the same rate yes, but one is worth more than the other per unit.
They're both worth 1 res.
If two people living in the same household are given $1, and one spends 75cents on rent, and the other spends 50cents on rent. that doesn't mean the person who spent 50cents has a better $1, it just means cost allocation is different. I know what you're trying to say, but 1 tick of res is exactly 1tick of res. if it was any different aliens would gain res at a different rate than marines.
Marines are balanced around the commander dropping meds and ammo periodically (which is a terrible decision in my opinion), if you were to play a game where you dropped very little, if any at all, medpacks and ammopacks you'd probably end up with armour 3, weapons 2, and phase gates by the 5 or 6 minute mark, assuming your marines won more engagements than they lost.
A3W2 and PGs at 5-6 minutes? You'd have to hold, like, 8-9 extractors to do that. Even then it probably isn't possible.
But that's the point, while marines have been balanced around meds and ammo drops aliens can get ups and still cyst spam the map without an issue, therefore the expenditure of tres is not equal so tres, is not equal. If instead of it being 1tres and 1tres and instead was called 1nanite and 1goo would you agree they are not equal? Because they are different? Pretty sure you would, and nothing changed but the name. They are not equal.
I'd be fine with mature cysts having less health as long as new cysts start with more health. I've begun so many games running straight to alien start and popping many cysts and crippling their start it isn't funny. Don't matter if I die, the early cripple to res expansion is well worth it.
A3W2 and PGs at 5-6 minutes? You'd have to hold, like, 8-9 extractors to do that. Even then it probably isn't possible.
correct, that should be armor 2 not 3, my mistake. assuming you won more engagements than you lost, you'd have 4 or 5 extractors. and you could have all those before the 1 minute 30 second mark, assuming you won all first engagements. It would only cost about 175 resources.
A3W2 and PGs at 5-6 minutes? You'd have to hold, like, 8-9 extractors to do that. Even then it probably isn't possible.
correct, that should be armor 2 not 3, my mistake. assuming you won more engagements than you lost, you'd have 4 or 5 extractors. and you could have all those before the 1 minute 30 second mark, assuming you won all first engagements. It would only cost about 175 resources.
Yes holding 5 extractors and not medding can get you 3/2 ups with pg by 6 minutes or something. Gotta take into account time to research though, and while thats happening you just keep getting more res.
I agree that cysts should have less HP when mature, but I also think the mentioned red circle of doom should go again; newly dropped cysts are easy to kill anyway
cysts should be made stronger and be made more important for the aliens such as for structure building/destruction, give flamethrower an even more cost reduction in pres. Doing this may actually give an incentive for other weapons to be used and possibly even in comp play. Gives more variety and more variety for tactics.
I like the thought of balancing the game to allow more diversity on marines seems kind of like we went from fade balls to jp/shotty balls. But I do not think that is the best way.
Because Shotty/JP is the ONLY choice to deal damage late game whilst staying mobile. FT/GL is purely support, LMG does less dmg and exos are as not as mobile and pretty weak. Also on a side note Fades seem to have ridicous HP now (and are too slow)
^^^ Yea red circle is stupid, and could use with maybe a tiny bit more starting hp. But I do think it should have less health at 100% maturity - low enough to kill with an LMG clip.
IMO a good player should always carry a welder to weld his fellow marine's armor. Cysts are easily enough killed with a welder, you don't even have to crouch.
Some time ago I saw a suggestion about infesting (destroyed) powernodes with cysts. I think this would also work out with one of my ideas: increasing/reducing the infest radius of cysts based on alien map control. The idea is to have less but also more durable, expensive and meaningful cysts. Therefor placing them would also require a bit more thinking.
Comments
I guess you mean it's effect of infestation ? Or other cysts (links)? Or both?
Anyway: these are all things you could just call 'commander skill', part learning curve, part talent for estimating.
I mean when I'm about to drop a single cyst, I want a circle hovering around it so that I know everything in that circle will have infestation.
I like the thought of balancing the game to allow more diversity on marines seems kind of like we went from fade balls to jp/shotty balls. But I do not think that is the best way.
Flamethrowers already have enough benefits (hard counter to bile/lerk gases/drifter clouds/whips) that keeping 1-2 (pending game size) around is really a good idea. Of course if the marines are not having issues with any of those they would not really be necessary. I also fear giving much more incentive to use a FT would exacerbate the issue of 3 man marine squads running around around all using FTs in pubs and losing them instantly because they have no burst damage.
This is the only good counter argument. Unfortunately they're very expensive and unless you have a JP you're effectively unable to defend yourself if you need to. Better hope your buddies don't miss and don't wander. Perhaps if they were reduced to 15pres like the GL? It's always confused me that the GL can be so damn cheap and yet SOOO damn good at its job and yet the FL is no the completely opposite side of the scale. It can do its job, but compared to how easy it is with the GL (massive range aoe building smack down vs close range cyst popper/energy regen killing/passive building effect stopping)?
They are also just strong enough to be irritating to shoot/whack at. I can't trust random pubbers to watch my back while I have my face on the floor. I also can't trust random pubbers to cover me when I have to reload shells after shooting a few cysts.
The problem is, the situation always calls for it. There's no reason not to (unless going for ninja moves).
No.
Gotta love the amount of ammo 1 tres gets a marine ...
That comparison is not fair or even to the point of the original statement in any way whatsoever. It actually hurt me to read.
I have the feeling you haven't really considered your own question, G3 ... early game immature cyst not killed by one mag apparently not a problem to you, but mature cysts, which *are* killed within 1 mag by weapons upgraded, which as you are talking 6v6 happens very early, is a problem?
Infact, do you Khamm? Because cysts die easily enough to confound the Khamm, even on 2v2.
/facepalm that's a new level of stupid right there.
EDIT: Just so you know, you just said 1 marine tres is equal to 1 alien tres.
Having a single player roaming and chopping away at cysts pisses the alien khammander off and keeps the cyst from maturing making them easy to kill whenever they're replaced. Not to mention things like welders and flamethrowers exist and are stupidly effective at dealing with cysts.
Remember, the game is being balanced around 8v8ish.
Last I checked, marines and aliens gained res at an equal rate assuming an equal number of resource towers. This means 1 marine TRES is equivalent to 1 alien TRES. it's just that uwe decided to make alien commanding one stupidly giant res sink, which is why there seems to be a res discrepancy between marine and alien TRES spending.
Which is why they're not equal. You gain at the same rate yes, but one is worth more than the other per unit.
If two people living in the same household are given $1, and one spends 75cents on rent, and the other spends 50cents on rent. that doesn't mean the person who spent 50cents has a better $1, it just means cost allocation is different. I know what you're trying to say, but 1 tick of res is exactly 1tick of res. if it was any different aliens would gain res at a different rate than marines.
Marines are balanced around the commander dropping meds and ammo periodically (which is a terrible decision in my opinion), if you were to play a game where you dropped very little, if any at all, medpacks and ammopacks you'd probably end up with armour 2, weapons 2, and phase gates by the 5 or 6 minute mark, assuming your marines won more engagements than they lost.
A lot of commanders spend ridiculous amounts of res on those, Personally I only drop medpacks and ammo packs if the marine is holding a forward position, and would be capable of continuing to hold it with limited ammo/medpack support, or (in the case of ammo) harassing the alien economy/upgrades. otherwise it's much cheaper to drop an armory. After the moment it heals and resupplies marines a total of 5 times it has paid itself off, every heal afterwards is saved res. (if you lose the position you can recycle it and get between 5 and 7.5 res back)
A3W2 and PGs at 5-6 minutes? You'd have to hold, like, 8-9 extractors to do that. Even then it probably isn't possible.
Need to rerail the thread however.
Yes holding 5 extractors and not medding can get you 3/2 ups with pg by 6 minutes or something. Gotta take into account time to research though, and while thats happening you just keep getting more res.
Because Shotty/JP is the ONLY choice to deal damage late game whilst staying mobile. FT/GL is purely support, LMG does less dmg and exos are as not as mobile and pretty weak. Also on a side note Fades seem to have ridicous HP now (and are too slow)
The only thing that bothers me is the redundant anti-spam features :
_ red circle of death
_ super low life when dropped
The game is multiplayer, so there is another team that does not want cysts to be destroyed so quickly.