@Kamamura
But you're no lawyer either I hope? As long as you can't proof that he did use a cheat to gain an unfair advantage in an actual match, in my opinion he is not guilty. If you simply say "He installed cheats, so he is a cheater." then you don't regard all the circumstances and arguments.
I find it kinda said how some people of this community deal with renowned veterans.
Indeed, I am not a lawyer, but since law analogies were used by SantaClawz, it's interesting to find out where would they lead us. Law does not define crimes or transgressions based on motives (because those are nigh impossible to prove), but on defining exactly what behavior is unacceptable and considered a crime or transgression. For example, taking an item that belongs to someone is defined as theft - and it is always theft no matter if you "took from the rich to give the poor", or if it was and act of "pure and selfish greed". You are guilty in both cases, though the judge may consider the motive and defendant's statements when determining the sentence. Killing someone maybe justifiable defense, or killing, or premeditated murder, but once again, all these are clearly defined. In our case, playing with cheats installed is considered cheating, such is the definition, and by fulfilling it, you are guilty of cheating (though some forms, like the one you mention, may be considered "justifiable")
One more important principle from the law should be mentioned - equality in the eyes of the law. Laws should apply to lowly peasants as well as to notable citizens in the same measure (though in practice, it is seldom the case). Fanatic in one of his post wrote: "The fact that he got VAC banned is almost proof in itself that he didn't use a hack to cheat -- no one who knows anything about hacking would ever use a wallhack that is old enough to get detected by VAC." which I find to be patently wrong way to think about it. It implies there is a privileged elite who is by any means beyond any suspicion, and catching them red handed ridiculously proves not their guilt, but their innocence. It's like catching a judge during a burglary with pockets full of silverware and hearing him say: "Why should I steal? I am a judge, and I of all people know best how wrong and dangerous it is, so it's ridiculous to imply that I would do something so stupid as to break into someone's house just to steal. No, I am just inspecting those fine spoons to see if they were not stolen from somebody else."
But in real life, judges can steal, and priests can murder, and there is always a group of people around them who refuse to believe they could do something wrong. I knew a top Czech Counterstrike player, and he was cheating as well, I saw it with my very own eyes, models with brightly colored heads and aimbot and wallhacks, and one of the tournament organizers asked me to testify which I did, and some players refused to believe it because of his reputation. That does not mean your guy is guilty, but it CAN happen - no matter what you refuse to accept.
There is a good reason why evidence of criminal behavior is not accepted by courts when obtained by illegal means, because once people start breaking the laws claiming they do it to catch the others doing it, it soon becomes nigh impossible to distinguish who is who.
That said, I agree that adequate official tools should exist, so that people do not have to resort to these extremes, but especially top players should be aware of the terrible risk that just coming near these forbidden tools means for their reputation.
There was even a large ban wave VAC did a while ago for one of the COD games on the launch that were all false positives. Valve retracted the bans and I think even gave the people affected a free gifted game for the trouble. I've also personally seen some steam support ticket screenshots of bans being reversed for things like GoldSRC mods a few times on facepunch.
every single time anyone does anything for this community the community spends the next month(s) shitting on them
This is simply not true. Case and point: The AusNS2 league appears to have run exceptionally smoothly and all done by volunteers. Whilst I no longer play in a team so don't have any inside knowledge, I frequent the boards where discussion is held, and there is practically ZERO shitting on volunteers, figuratively or otherwise. This is because it is, by and large, an extremely well run league. While previously Aussie teams have had major issues with NSL, there has been no significant problems in the locally run league, and thus no cause for complaint.
People don't go around arbitrarily shitting on each other. Sure, it's unbecoming when it's not warranted or people are going overboard, but nobody is above criticism, nor should be. If there are legitimate problems, they should be expressed so that tourny/league organization can be improved upon, as long as it's done in a respectful manner - and I believe that's exactly what's being done here, unless I'm missing something?
The volunteers are big boys. And whilst it's nice, and important, to express our gratitude to remind them we appreciate what they do, they can handle a bit of criticism. Sure, they don't get paid for it, but it's still part of the job.
I believe it to be very obvious that Eissfeldt is not guilty. Not letting him play at this point is ridiculous. It has also been pointed out that the main organizers (wasabi and zefram) are highly associated with Titus, and are possibly purposefully keeping Eissfeldt from playing to improve Titus's chances. There's obviously no direct proof of this, but the fact it has been speculated means something. I would highly encourage the organizers to allow him to play.
First and foremost, I wanted to thank everyone for their input and conversation. It's much appreciated!
Myself, Wasabi, Zefram, and Hugh have discussed the registration rule tonight. Given the very limited number of players affected, and the limited time remaining for registration, it is unlikely that the administrative problems the restriction was intended to prevent will occur should we lift it. The rule has been changed, and any player or team may change their roster until registration closes on Monday at 4:00pm PDT/12:00am GMT.
Once registration has closed there will be no more adjustments to the rules other than those regarding the scheduling of quarter final and horizon bracket matches, and those affecting the four teams qualifying for Cologne.
Thanks so much, everyone!
Edit: forgot to add, if you are modifying an already submitted team, please email info@ns2wc.com
The rule has been changed, and any player or team may change their roster until registration closes on Monday at 4:00pm PDT/12:00am GMT.
I doubt this will help many of the affected players or teams, as 24 hours is a very limited amount of time to figure things out. You have to remember that these players and teams have already resigned themselves to their fate. Some may not even read this thread until it is too late. Given that group play doesn't start until saturday 8th dec, I think you should extend signups until wednesday 4th to give players and teams time to sort things out. That still leaves you thursday to make the groups and publish the matchups for the weekend, as well as friday for the teams to prepare. Scheduling is not disrupted by players who are not currently on a team joining new teams, so such players should be allowed to join a team until midnight friday 6th december.
I should say that I am very happy that you're allowing full roster freedom, at least for a short period of time. I doubt there will be many switches, and I think some of the past projects have been permanently sunk, but I'm sure that the switches that do occur will mean a great deal to the affected players.
I believe it to be very obvious that Eissfeldt is not guilty. Not letting him play at this point is ridiculous. It has also been pointed out that the main organizers (wasabi and zefram) are highly associated with Titus, and are possibly purposefully keeping Eissfeldt from playing to improve Titus's chances. There's obviously no direct proof of this, but the fact it has been speculated means something. I would highly encourage the organizers to allow him to play.
I believe it to be very obvious that Eissfeldt is not guilty. Not letting him play at this point is ridiculous. It has also been pointed out that the main organizers (wasabi and zefram) are highly associated with Titus, and are possibly purposefully keeping Eissfeldt from playing to improve Titus's chances. There's obviously no direct proof of this, but the fact it has been speculated means something. I would highly encourage the organizers to allow him to play.
/tinfoil hat
lol. I personally don't believe that to be the case. I'm only pointing out what others have said.
I'd just like to acknowledge my gratitude towards the NS2WC Admins for their final decision regarding team roster changes.
I find it really unfortunate that the issues had to turn into a cesspool which deters further input from the organizers and administrators who have volunteered a lot of their time for the community. I believe that their were other courses of action available (which were yet to be attempted), fana, before a thread like this would become necessary.
I apologize for being pedantic, but I believe you mean 'moot'
this is why I dont write in the forums much
Nobody's safe from jackass pedants like myself nitpicking tiny mistakes in their posts!
I almost pointed out that the true definition of a 'moot point' is subject to debate, until I realised such a point would in fact be a moot point. Then I just confused myself.
Just to continue my tyrannical reign of jackass pedantry: *there
Anyway, re: your post, whilst as a non-participant it doesn't really effect me, I too appreciate this and commend the admin team's decision to resolve this issue.
You are right there may have been other courses of action that could have been more appropriate. There's pros and cons to having it all in the forums as transparency allows wider and more open discussion, but also invites perhaps overly contentious posts and potential derailment from reasonable discourse. I dunno whether it's better to handle internally or not.
Anyway, re: your post, whilst as a non-participant it doesn't really effect me, I too appreciate this and commend the admin team's decision to resolve this issue.
... whilst as a non-participant it doesn't really affect you ...
Anyway, re: your post, whilst as a non-participant it doesn't really effect me, I too appreciate this and commend the admin team's decision to resolve this issue.
... whilst as a non-participant it doesn't really affect you ...
Members of Titus Attempting to Leave to join new team formed by Bitey:
Locklear
rLine
Total Members on Titus' Roster: 8. (Including Zefram, who doesn't play)
The rule hasn't changed because it would negatively effect the 'home team' of the event leadership. This is plain as day.
Why the absolute head leadership of the leagues and organization is authorized to be a bench-boy on one of the top teams i'll never understand either (as this just screams corruption and scandal from the onset to any sane human being), but with a small community i understand volunteering is important and cheers to you Zefram for putting so much work into the game and community.
Word is that the rule was changed to unlock teams or was in talks to be changed. I don't know for sure either way, though.
I'm sure if there were anyone left in the NS2 community that hasn't been absolutely putoff by this community's treatment of its volunteers, then you could find admins who weren't Zefram/Wasabi. But you can't, because every single time anyone does anything for this community the community spends the next month(s) shitting on them. Since I've stepped back from the game, it is really quite a sight to behold. The competitive community has, at every turn, been a total douche toward the people working for them. And I'm disappointed to have done my part in it. From Flayra to Sewlek and Hugh to Swalk to Wasabi. Just thread after thread of crying and rarely any gratitude.
The community also donated 16,000 USD to their cause, which I believe more than balances out a few harsh words. That isn't to say you don't have a point, but it isn't quite fair to paint these guys as victims.
I am very sorry that I had to make this thread. I would've much preferred that this was solved in a cleaner manner, but I saw no other way.
This is complete and utter bullsh*t - and I'm calling you out on it. You had one conversation with Wasabi, and it didn't go your way or you didn't get the answer that you wanted. So, in high and mighty Fana fashion, you drag it onto the forums and ignite more drama than these guys need to deal with.
You saw no other way? Are you that dense? You know that Wasabi isn't the only admin, right? When you didn't get your way with Wasabi, nothing in that brain of yours thought "Hmm, I should try to meet with all the admins and discuss it in a civil way - maybe even get their side of the story before I blow this up on the forums." No - of course not.
So, yes, Fana - there was another way. You are either extremely selfish or you are doing your best to see this effort fail; which is completely unfair to the guys pouring hours and hours to try to get this off the ground. All you've done was show how much you thrive on creating drama and sticking your nose into everyone's business. Don't give me that 'holier-than-thou' veil - it's extremely thin and people can see right through it.
@RedDog Any update on the Eiss situation? It's been mentioned several times here already that VAC bans are not treated like this in any other game or league. Unless there is proof that Eiss has cheated in an official match, I don't think it's fair to ban him from any portion of this event or future events. Using wall hacks while watching another player's demo is perfectly acceptable and is done in other games, just check YouTube. This post is pretty comprehensive and is probably the most correct way to deal with the situation, but I have yet to see an official response to it.
@BestProfileName - it only has relevance, if the admins actually intend to open their minds on that issue. I think Wasabi was telling us that he wasn't going to do just that. The case is closed in their mind.
bonageJoin Date: 2012-10-13Member: 162230Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
ok so the fixes to the rules so far have been good. As an admin of the ausns league, here is my unbiased advice as to make everyone happy and fix the remaining issues:
1.
Unban Eiss, and make a declaration that anyone else who incurs a vac ban after this point in time during the tournament will not be allowed to play. Everyone will then have warning and not do it.
2.
Watch Eiss closely for the first couple of rounds if necessary, and ask him to stream his perspective, like he has offered to do.
3.
Extend the signup date until Wednesday, allowing everyone enough time to get their team rosters sorted out now that the now changing team ban has been lifted.
4.
push the quarterfinals back a week, or at least give teams the option of playing their quarters on the weekend of the 21st/22nd. Knock 2 days off the week 2 makeup rounds if you need to to accomodate this.
I know its hard to admin a community tournament, and whilst ours was not one of this scale, i appreciate the hard work ns2wc admin team are putting in. Just a few more fixes are needed, and then we can have a good tournament and everyone can be happy and have lots of funs. Otherwise, we will be here talking about conspiracy theories all day (which I do enjoy reading, but i'd rather see the best team compositions possible enter to play off to get to germany).
Any update on the Eiss situation? It's been mentioned several times here already that VAC bans are not treated like this in any other game or league. Unless there is proof that Eiss has cheated in an official match, I don't think it's fair to ban him from any portion of this event or future events. Using wall hacks while watching another player's demo is perfectly acceptable and is done in other games, just check YouTube. This post is pretty comprehensive and is probably the most correct way to deal with the situation, but I have yet to see an official response to it.
The end of that entire thread you are referring to has the official response.
On the topic of the WC. I personally think the problems had are too far gone with the existing play dates. When I first heard there was going to be a WC I assumed that it was going to occur 6 months after it was announced, not 2 weeks. That simply isn't enough time for teams to prepare to take the WC any more seriously than any tournament that has been played thus far. To sign up and play at this point would feel no different than playing ENSL games. Except for the chance of playing LAN.
ok so the fixes to the rules so far have been good. As an admin of the ausns league, here is my unbiased advice as to make everyone happy and fix the remaining issues:
1.
Unban Eiss, and make a declaration that anyone else who incurs a vac ban after this point in time during the tournament will not be allowed to play. Everyone will then have warning and not do it.
2.
Watch Eiss closely for the first couple of rounds if necessary, and ask him to stream his perspective, like he has offered to do.
3.
Extend the signup date until Wednesday, allowing everyone enough time to get their team rosters sorted out now that the now changing team ban has been lifted.
4.
push the quarterfinals back a week, or at least give teams the option of playing their quarters on the weekend of the 21st/22nd. Knock 2 days off the week 2 makeup rounds if you need to to accomodate this.
I know its hard to admin a community tournament, and whilst ours was not one of this scale, i appreciate the hard work ns2wc admin team are putting in. Just a few more fixes are needed, and then we can have a good tournament and everyone can be happy and have lots of funs. Otherwise, we will be here talking about conspiracy theories all day (which I do enjoy reading, but i'd rather see the best team compositions possible enter to play off to get to germany).
There really is no downside to doing this.
I think eissfeldt should stream his games though so there is no doubt.
How this tournament is run is highly relevant to the people who paid for it, and many of those people never visit the competitive forums.
Where people frequent more often does not change nor dictate where a thread belongs, fana.
Even tech support questions that are posted in Gen Disc for "more eyes" to diagnose, are still moved to where they belong.
If the general populous helped pay for a competitive event.. then they can visit the competitive forums to discuss such issues with it.
Besides, it might be good to get a bit of fresh faces around here and experience these parts of the forums.
When you move things around like this, or god forbid lock it like what happened to the eissfeldt ban discussion thread, it makes people question your motives -- it looks like you're trying to hide the discussion.
Lots of tin foil hat thinking going on in this thread..
Ok, now my turn to add one! : maybe you posted a thread in the wrong place just because you wanted to stir up drama with a higher view count? ..*plays X files theme*..
In all seriousness, I know you did it simply because you wanted the issues resolved, and I can respect that.
I am not sure you went about it the best way - seems a bit overkill and dramatic to me.. (did you not contact anyone else?) but i can respect the goal, none the less.
This does not change what i said at the beginning of my response, however.. So it makes me even more happy to see that these issues the community finds to be important are being resolved regardless of where your thread remains. (somewhat? I'm tracking some progress, but not tallying anything - someone should do that, if its the goal of the thread)
@BestProfileName - it only has relevance, if the admins actually intend to open their minds on that issue. I think Wasabi was telling us that he wasn't going to do just that. The case is closed in their mind.
@IronHorse Having put $125 towards this event myself, and agreeing as I do with fana's points (thankfully some of these have been at least partially resolved, which is good), I am of the view that it SHOULD be discussed in the more open, populated general discussion forum. As a regular forum reader (and frequenter of the vet sub-forum), I have only just come across this thread now, myself.
Personally, I'm still very disappointed in the decision taken against Eiss. It has made me regret very much donating the reasonably large sum to this tournament that I did.
@RedDog Any update on the Eiss situation? It's been mentioned several times here already that VAC bans are not treated like this in any other game or league. Unless there is proof that Eiss has cheated in an official match, I don't think it's fair to ban him from any portion of this event or future events. Using wall hacks while watching another player's demo is perfectly acceptable and is done in other games, just check YouTube. This post is pretty comprehensive and is probably the most correct way to deal with the situation, but I have yet to see an official response to it.
I've been following this thread and considered linking that post a couple of times since I felt it did not really have much of a chance to be discussed since the thread was censored closed about an hour after I submitted it. I hope that those of you posting here with zero tolerance statements regarding hacks are able to see the situation from a different perspective and notice how important it is that the decision to ban a player from any competition not be taken lightly.
I see some of the same arguments popping up in this thread and they are arguments that are all to familiar... and I do not just mean regarding hacks. While no administration can ever satisfy 100% of those it governs it is imperative that the basis for each and every decision that said administration makes should be as solid as possible. As the presence of this thread and others demonstrates there were decisions made by the NS2WC team that in the opinion of those under them were not built upon a solid basis. People can make mistakes and it is obvious that more communication was needed in this situation. While some unforeseeable complications occurred it is good to see that all of the controversy has opened up line of communication with the community. While it remains to be seen if the administration and community will reach an amicable agreement on all points being discussed here the fact that the dialogue remains open is good. NS2 is still fairly new compared to most games with solid competitive scenes and it goes with out saying success very rarely comes without adversity so hopefully the NS2 competitive scene is able to mature following this adversity.
Oh, in case it is not clear here I am saying people are always going to disagree with anything you do. The goal is to have a damn good reason for everything you do. Also known as COVER YOUR OWN ASS, a concept that should should be familiar for any one from a service industry worker to an Engineer or politician.
That being said I am with @rline as I am interested in hearing exactly what the line of thought is with the whole Eissfeldt thing is... just curiosity.
Oh funny story, here are a few things that could have possibly gotten you a VAC ban in TFC:
1. Using a plugin to allow for more diversity in HUD colors.
2. Using a plugin to control winamp (or any music player).
3. Using a plugin that was coded such that it coule only be enabled while in spectate mode which containing several tools (aka CHEATS) for use in assessing the legitimacy of other players in real time (could also be used during playback of recorded demos with no risk), Note: this tool was actively distributed among admins responsible for detecting cheats.
Comments
Indeed, I am not a lawyer, but since law analogies were used by SantaClawz, it's interesting to find out where would they lead us. Law does not define crimes or transgressions based on motives (because those are nigh impossible to prove), but on defining exactly what behavior is unacceptable and considered a crime or transgression. For example, taking an item that belongs to someone is defined as theft - and it is always theft no matter if you "took from the rich to give the poor", or if it was and act of "pure and selfish greed". You are guilty in both cases, though the judge may consider the motive and defendant's statements when determining the sentence. Killing someone maybe justifiable defense, or killing, or premeditated murder, but once again, all these are clearly defined. In our case, playing with cheats installed is considered cheating, such is the definition, and by fulfilling it, you are guilty of cheating (though some forms, like the one you mention, may be considered "justifiable")
One more important principle from the law should be mentioned - equality in the eyes of the law. Laws should apply to lowly peasants as well as to notable citizens in the same measure (though in practice, it is seldom the case). Fanatic in one of his post wrote: "The fact that he got VAC banned is almost proof in itself that he didn't use a hack to cheat -- no one who knows anything about hacking would ever use a wallhack that is old enough to get detected by VAC." which I find to be patently wrong way to think about it. It implies there is a privileged elite who is by any means beyond any suspicion, and catching them red handed ridiculously proves not their guilt, but their innocence. It's like catching a judge during a burglary with pockets full of silverware and hearing him say: "Why should I steal? I am a judge, and I of all people know best how wrong and dangerous it is, so it's ridiculous to imply that I would do something so stupid as to break into someone's house just to steal. No, I am just inspecting those fine spoons to see if they were not stolen from somebody else."
But in real life, judges can steal, and priests can murder, and there is always a group of people around them who refuse to believe they could do something wrong. I knew a top Czech Counterstrike player, and he was cheating as well, I saw it with my very own eyes, models with brightly colored heads and aimbot and wallhacks, and one of the tournament organizers asked me to testify which I did, and some players refused to believe it because of his reputation. That does not mean your guy is guilty, but it CAN happen - no matter what you refuse to accept.
There is a good reason why evidence of criminal behavior is not accepted by courts when obtained by illegal means, because once people start breaking the laws claiming they do it to catch the others doing it, it soon becomes nigh impossible to distinguish who is who.
That said, I agree that adequate official tools should exist, so that people do not have to resort to these extremes, but especially top players should be aware of the terrible risk that just coming near these forbidden tools means for their reputation.
Yes it does - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat#False-positive_detections
There was even a large ban wave VAC did a while ago for one of the COD games on the launch that were all false positives. Valve retracted the bans and I think even gave the people affected a free gifted game for the trouble. I've also personally seen some steam support ticket screenshots of bans being reversed for things like GoldSRC mods a few times on facepunch.
This is simply not true. Case and point: The AusNS2 league appears to have run exceptionally smoothly and all done by volunteers. Whilst I no longer play in a team so don't have any inside knowledge, I frequent the boards where discussion is held, and there is practically ZERO shitting on volunteers, figuratively or otherwise. This is because it is, by and large, an extremely well run league. While previously Aussie teams have had major issues with NSL, there has been no significant problems in the locally run league, and thus no cause for complaint.
People don't go around arbitrarily shitting on each other. Sure, it's unbecoming when it's not warranted or people are going overboard, but nobody is above criticism, nor should be. If there are legitimate problems, they should be expressed so that tourny/league organization can be improved upon, as long as it's done in a respectful manner - and I believe that's exactly what's being done here, unless I'm missing something?
The volunteers are big boys. And whilst it's nice, and important, to express our gratitude to remind them we appreciate what they do, they can handle a bit of criticism. Sure, they don't get paid for it, but it's still part of the job.
First and foremost, I wanted to thank everyone for their input and conversation. It's much appreciated!
Myself, Wasabi, Zefram, and Hugh have discussed the registration rule tonight. Given the very limited number of players affected, and the limited time remaining for registration, it is unlikely that the administrative problems the restriction was intended to prevent will occur should we lift it. The rule has been changed, and any player or team may change their roster until registration closes on Monday at 4:00pm PDT/12:00am GMT.
Once registration has closed there will be no more adjustments to the rules other than those regarding the scheduling of quarter final and horizon bracket matches, and those affecting the four teams qualifying for Cologne.
Thanks so much, everyone!
Edit: forgot to add, if you are modifying an already submitted team, please email info@ns2wc.com
I apologize for being pedantic, but I believe you mean 'moot'
I should say that I am very happy that you're allowing full roster freedom, at least for a short period of time. I doubt there will be many switches, and I think some of the past projects have been permanently sunk, but I'm sure that the switches that do occur will mean a great deal to the affected players.
this is why I dont write in the forums much
/tinfoil hat
I find it really unfortunate that the issues had to turn into a cesspool which deters further input from the organizers and administrators who have volunteered a lot of their time for the community. I believe that their were other courses of action available (which were yet to be attempted), fana, before a thread like this would become necessary.
Nobody's safe from jackass pedants like myself nitpicking tiny mistakes in their posts!
I almost pointed out that the true definition of a 'moot point' is subject to debate, until I realised such a point would in fact be a moot point. Then I just confused myself.
Just to continue my tyrannical reign of jackass pedantry: *there
Anyway, re: your post, whilst as a non-participant it doesn't really effect me, I too appreciate this and commend the admin team's decision to resolve this issue.
You are right there may have been other courses of action that could have been more appropriate. There's pros and cons to having it all in the forums as transparency allows wider and more open discussion, but also invites perhaps overly contentious posts and potential derailment from reasonable discourse. I dunno whether it's better to handle internally or not.
... whilst as a non-participant it doesn't really affect you ...
oooh, the irony.
DAMNIT!
Well played... I'll see myself out.
I think what you meant was not "mute", but "moot".
Incidentally:
adjective
1.
subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty.
So it's something to be further debated?
The community also donated 16,000 USD to their cause, which I believe more than balances out a few harsh words. That isn't to say you don't have a point, but it isn't quite fair to paint these guys as victims.
This is what I was trying to avoid!
The popular modern version is closer to "however debatable, has no practical relevance"
In this context I guess it means that there's no point discussing it further.
I cannot believe you typed that.
Do you do anything but attack Fana? lols
Except it does have practical relevance? lols
1.
Unban Eiss, and make a declaration that anyone else who incurs a vac ban after this point in time during the tournament will not be allowed to play. Everyone will then have warning and not do it.
2.
Watch Eiss closely for the first couple of rounds if necessary, and ask him to stream his perspective, like he has offered to do.
3.
Extend the signup date until Wednesday, allowing everyone enough time to get their team rosters sorted out now that the now changing team ban has been lifted.
4.
push the quarterfinals back a week, or at least give teams the option of playing their quarters on the weekend of the 21st/22nd. Knock 2 days off the week 2 makeup rounds if you need to to accomodate this.
I know its hard to admin a community tournament, and whilst ours was not one of this scale, i appreciate the hard work ns2wc admin team are putting in. Just a few more fixes are needed, and then we can have a good tournament and everyone can be happy and have lots of funs. Otherwise, we will be here talking about conspiracy theories all day (which I do enjoy reading, but i'd rather see the best team compositions possible enter to play off to get to germany).
The end of that entire thread you are referring to has the official response.
There really is no downside to doing this.
I think eissfeldt should stream his games though so there is no doubt.
Even tech support questions that are posted in Gen Disc for "more eyes" to diagnose, are still moved to where they belong.
If the general populous helped pay for a competitive event.. then they can visit the competitive forums to discuss such issues with it.
Besides, it might be good to get a bit of fresh faces around here and experience these parts of the forums. And my answer is No. See above. Lots of tin foil hat thinking going on in this thread..
Ok, now my turn to add one! : maybe you posted a thread in the wrong place just because you wanted to stir up drama with a higher view count? ..*plays X files theme*..
In all seriousness, I know you did it simply because you wanted the issues resolved, and I can respect that.
I am not sure you went about it the best way - seems a bit overkill and dramatic to me.. (did you not contact anyone else?) but i can respect the goal, none the less.
This does not change what i said at the beginning of my response, however.. So it makes me even more happy to see that these issues the community finds to be important are being resolved regardless of where your thread remains. (somewhat? I'm tracking some progress, but not tallying anything - someone should do that, if its the goal of the thread)
p.s. I didnt close that thread?
@SantaClaws
They never had an intention to change anything in the first place and yet they did.
Personally, I'm still very disappointed in the decision taken against Eiss. It has made me regret very much donating the reasonably large sum to this tournament that I did.
I've been following this thread and considered linking that post a couple of times since I felt it did not really have much of a chance to be discussed since the thread was censored closed about an hour after I submitted it. I hope that those of you posting here with zero tolerance statements regarding hacks are able to see the situation from a different perspective and notice how important it is that the decision to ban a player from any competition not be taken lightly.
I see some of the same arguments popping up in this thread and they are arguments that are all to familiar... and I do not just mean regarding hacks. While no administration can ever satisfy 100% of those it governs it is imperative that the basis for each and every decision that said administration makes should be as solid as possible. As the presence of this thread and others demonstrates there were decisions made by the NS2WC team that in the opinion of those under them were not built upon a solid basis. People can make mistakes and it is obvious that more communication was needed in this situation. While some unforeseeable complications occurred it is good to see that all of the controversy has opened up line of communication with the community. While it remains to be seen if the administration and community will reach an amicable agreement on all points being discussed here the fact that the dialogue remains open is good. NS2 is still fairly new compared to most games with solid competitive scenes and it goes with out saying success very rarely comes without adversity so hopefully the NS2 competitive scene is able to mature following this adversity.
Oh, in case it is not clear here I am saying people are always going to disagree with anything you do. The goal is to have a damn good reason for everything you do. Also known as COVER YOUR OWN ASS, a concept that should should be familiar for any one from a service industry worker to an Engineer or politician.
That being said I am with @rline as I am interested in hearing exactly what the line of thought is with the whole Eissfeldt thing is... just curiosity.
Oh funny story, here are a few things that could have possibly gotten you a VAC ban in TFC:
1. Using a plugin to allow for more diversity in HUD colors.
2. Using a plugin to control winamp (or any music player).
3. Using a plugin that was coded such that it coule only be enabled while in spectate mode which containing several tools (aka CHEATS) for use in assessing the legitimacy of other players in real time (could also be used during playback of recorded demos with no risk), Note: this tool was actively distributed among admins responsible for detecting cheats.
Edit: Typo