My point of view as a new player and as a veteran esport gamer
NJNaoned
France Join Date: 2013-12-04 Member: 189773Members
France Join Date: 2013-12-04 Member: 189773Members
First of all, I am not a native english person so, I am sorry for my english level and all the mistakes I will make in the following book 
I have been playing online video games for around 15 years. I have organized a Starcraft 2 league with most of the best European teams in 2011. I think I have quite a respectable point of view regarding the development of a video game community even if what I am going to say is certainly not perfect and may be the middle of argue.
I started to play NS2 like 4 days ago and I have already seen a lot of lack in the game. Not precisely the game itself but more around the game.
I think NS2 was made to be an esport game. It has all the requirement necessaries, what is the most needed right now is a community and a proper organization around this community.
Let's be honnest, there are not a lot of players on NS2. Even if I think this game deserves more than an average of 1K players. And what the game need the most right now is not content, is not competition but players, a community. Now the question is why are there such a low number of players ?
Today, NS2 offer only one possible kind of match : FFA. To be able to play the real game (6 vs 6) which is I think is the most interesting and fun mode, you need to find by yourself 5 other players to play with and 6 opponents. When you are a new player on the game, it's kinda impossible to do. To be honnest, FFA is fun but it gets borring quite fast. It helps you to learn about the game, to play better but it won't make people stay very long on the game (except gamers who felt inlove with the game).
Today, a random player (not a pro), will play only to make some frags and try to win a random game which has no impact on anything. It means that the player wil have no significant result from the game he has just played except "win or loose", "point", "kill", "assist" and "death". And then ? What happen ? Nothing. He starts a new game and keep playing to get a win, some points, some kills which will be forgotten by everybody and by himsleft 5 minutes after the game ended. Plus, when a player wants to play, he will join a server which will make him arrive in a middle of a game. Sometime this game has started like 15 to 20 minutes ago. The new player is not really in touche with what happen in the game which will give him a less important taste of winning a match. If in every game the player play from the begining to the end of a game, he will have a feeling of being a part of something. On the other hand, if he arrives in the middle of a game, he won't really feel include and even if the player plays from the begining, because new players arrive, it makes the game more like a playground than an actual serious game. This kind of video games were able to work 15 years ago at the begining of online multiplayers games.
Today, this kind of video games can't work. Let's have a look at an other esport video game : League of Legend. I know, we talk a lot about this game but I think this is one of the most successfull video game ever made right now (not only regarding the content but also around the game). Today, what NS2 need to offer to players is not content but a way for a random player to have an impact on something like a ranking system. So when he plays a game, win a game, what he did is not forgotten and stays "alive". Plus, if he plays from the begining to the end, he will be more motivated to communicate and do his best to make his team win. League of Legend do that perfectly with its ranking system and matchmaking system. A player will wants to climb its division, be in gold, be in diamond, be in challenger division. He will want to see his rank go up every time he scores some wins. The player need a reward according to how he plays and he needs an impact on something. Today NS2 offer nothing for a random players and especially for new players except a FFA mode which does not have a long expectation life for 99% of gamers.
Now, what would be nice is a mode where you wait in a queue to find 11, 13, 15 other players to play a game. Those players must have a similare level in order to make a balanced game. At the end of the game, the players in the winner team earn points, the players in the looser team loose points and you make a ranking system according to thoses points (basic ELO system). With this kind of system, I think players will be more inclined to keep playing and invest more time to increase their level. Then, more player will play the game, which will make the community grow and make NS2 a real esport game.
I don't know if the developpers have the necessaries ressources to organize this kind of thing. But I think before organizing world championship, having a complete video game and a larger stable community is more important in the long run.
I have been playing online video games for around 15 years. I have organized a Starcraft 2 league with most of the best European teams in 2011. I think I have quite a respectable point of view regarding the development of a video game community even if what I am going to say is certainly not perfect and may be the middle of argue.
I started to play NS2 like 4 days ago and I have already seen a lot of lack in the game. Not precisely the game itself but more around the game.
I think NS2 was made to be an esport game. It has all the requirement necessaries, what is the most needed right now is a community and a proper organization around this community.
Let's be honnest, there are not a lot of players on NS2. Even if I think this game deserves more than an average of 1K players. And what the game need the most right now is not content, is not competition but players, a community. Now the question is why are there such a low number of players ?
Today, NS2 offer only one possible kind of match : FFA. To be able to play the real game (6 vs 6) which is I think is the most interesting and fun mode, you need to find by yourself 5 other players to play with and 6 opponents. When you are a new player on the game, it's kinda impossible to do. To be honnest, FFA is fun but it gets borring quite fast. It helps you to learn about the game, to play better but it won't make people stay very long on the game (except gamers who felt inlove with the game).
Today, a random player (not a pro), will play only to make some frags and try to win a random game which has no impact on anything. It means that the player wil have no significant result from the game he has just played except "win or loose", "point", "kill", "assist" and "death". And then ? What happen ? Nothing. He starts a new game and keep playing to get a win, some points, some kills which will be forgotten by everybody and by himsleft 5 minutes after the game ended. Plus, when a player wants to play, he will join a server which will make him arrive in a middle of a game. Sometime this game has started like 15 to 20 minutes ago. The new player is not really in touche with what happen in the game which will give him a less important taste of winning a match. If in every game the player play from the begining to the end of a game, he will have a feeling of being a part of something. On the other hand, if he arrives in the middle of a game, he won't really feel include and even if the player plays from the begining, because new players arrive, it makes the game more like a playground than an actual serious game. This kind of video games were able to work 15 years ago at the begining of online multiplayers games.
Today, this kind of video games can't work. Let's have a look at an other esport video game : League of Legend. I know, we talk a lot about this game but I think this is one of the most successfull video game ever made right now (not only regarding the content but also around the game). Today, what NS2 need to offer to players is not content but a way for a random player to have an impact on something like a ranking system. So when he plays a game, win a game, what he did is not forgotten and stays "alive". Plus, if he plays from the begining to the end, he will be more motivated to communicate and do his best to make his team win. League of Legend do that perfectly with its ranking system and matchmaking system. A player will wants to climb its division, be in gold, be in diamond, be in challenger division. He will want to see his rank go up every time he scores some wins. The player need a reward according to how he plays and he needs an impact on something. Today NS2 offer nothing for a random players and especially for new players except a FFA mode which does not have a long expectation life for 99% of gamers.
Now, what would be nice is a mode where you wait in a queue to find 11, 13, 15 other players to play a game. Those players must have a similare level in order to make a balanced game. At the end of the game, the players in the winner team earn points, the players in the looser team loose points and you make a ranking system according to thoses points (basic ELO system). With this kind of system, I think players will be more inclined to keep playing and invest more time to increase their level. Then, more player will play the game, which will make the community grow and make NS2 a real esport game.
I don't know if the developpers have the necessaries ressources to organize this kind of thing. But I think before organizing world championship, having a complete video game and a larger stable community is more important in the long run.
Comments
For now, it is in test phase, it will include, ranks and matchmaking.
I think it will be active next year.
It's still in the making.
Imho it should've been in the game on day 1 (just like the tutorial system and other stuff), but there have always been other issues, which had higher priorities (like performane and balance).
You can't really blame UWE though, they just didn't have the resources (programmers) to do it.
I worry that the implementation of the hive stats will be too little and far too late. NS2 is already being sold for $1 a copy, I worry that people will see the game as only being worth $1
2nd, as previously said, matchmaking is a work-in-progress feature so just keep playing
And i totally agree with you that end of round are currently... lacking something.
He said he comes from a competitive background and been around esports for the past 15 years. Shortly after playing this game and realizing he enjoys it at some level why on earth wouldn't he look into what the comp side is about?
Use common sense man...
A new player would find into a game way faster in a 6vs6 environment than a freaking 12vs12 zerg shit.
There are two reasons why new players prefer higher slot counts:
1) the general thinking that higher player counts equal more fun
2) his lacking knowledge (/skill) means less of a weight for his team
Both are not true. I'm not arguing that higher slot (>=20) servers are not enjoyable (they are not for me, but that's just my opinion), but they completely differ from a 6v6 environment. It's basically a different game. The thing is that other games (like league of legends) don't even offer the option to play anything but 5vs5, which means you play the game like it is meant to be played right from the start.
Reason number 2 is just a matter of team strength balancing. If both teams only have rookies, there would be no problem.
The real problem with 6vs6 is just that you can not keep a 12 slot server filled. I guess I don't need to explain why.
My point is that 6v6 isn't just for competitive gaming. It is just the minimum of players required and (depending on the size of the map) the best amount of players for a match. If anyone drops out in a 6vs6, that match is broken. If someone drops out in a 9vs9, you still have 8 players, which is still perfectly playable.
For general competative games, NSL offers that, including gatherers and other stuff.
UWE is currently developing matchmaking, rankings and other goodies. (Still in beta)
Yes I come from competitive background and what make me really enjoy a multiplayer game is to play it seriously, I have some trouble to play with a minimum of serious on a server with more than 18 players. Plus, playing 6vs6 will make the players use more their brain, they'll be more serious and try to find solution to issue they encounter. That's the beauty of esport.
Bicsum, I am new here and I would like to know why it would be impossible to keep 12 slot server filled if it's only for 1 game (20-30 minutes ?) ? Honestly, I'm quite surprised about the maturity of all the answers here. I was more expecting 0 replies or some semi replies from kids who wouldn't understand my point of view. It appears that the community behind this game is quite mature which is a BIG advantage from other games (hello League of Legend). So if the problem about the 12 slot server filled is because players would leave in the middle of the game, if you give penalty points to those players, they won't leave anymore. Look at League of Legend where there is the worst community I've ever seen (I did not played a lot of counter strike so I can't really compare with it), players do not really leave games.
nice to hear some fresh input about the game
and after thinking about it you might be right
would it be mod wise possible to implanment some match making system where you wait with like 12 players in a room later on ofc based on skill but even without it could be possible cause you might name the server/match 12 players mid ?
Next to that we have that feeling of teaming up with random people and doing something coordinated and succesfull. Especially because they are random people that feeling is all the more special. Welcome to the community frenchie, hope you grow up to be a real snail (or something similar) some day.
The reason is just the lacking match making system. In Lol you click play and it'll find you 9 other guys to play with. If someone leaves he would a penalty or at least not get +elo or whatever. In current ns2 public, you only have your dedicated servers. This means someone has to fill a server until you have your 12 players on it. If it ever fills, you probably have already waited for a long time. Now if someone leaves the game, you only have 11/12, which breaks the game. Someone might join the server at that point, but not only would that take too long, that new player would also start with his 20 pres.
That makes it impossible to have a decent public 6vs6. The workaround are gathers / pugs, but they are generally seen like they are just for the "competitive elite".
It is kind of sad that 6vs6 (or at least 7vs7) did not become the standard for public. You do get the most fun out of it, but for some reason those player counts became "competitive exculsive" in peoples heads..
I know that because I've been playing since day 1 (alpha) and I had the most fun in public when 14 slot servers were the absolute maximum of possible players.
Dude, LOL is free ...
In any case, an in-game gather system is still in the works.
I would LOVE to see this though or some form of easy "Click Play" to experience 6v6 and how this game is meant to be played. I would queue up as comm all the time to help out. Rankings are fun also. Look at Hearthstone and their system. More care bear on never going down in rank but still a good system.
@NJNaoned thank you for the post. You will find this community is VERY passionate about this game and generally well behaved. The best avenue is inspiring some talented modders and getting this dream off the ground. UWE is a little task saturated and spread thin. Again thanks for the great post.
Of course before that you need a reliable system to gauge player ability.
Such a system is beyond the ability of the dev team for one reason or another.
So we're screwed. Same story as SMNC.
The higher the skill ceiling, the lower the new player retention given no play balance.
An issue only visible to actual gamers who have mained games like this in the hourly quad digits. Which also explains the lack of comprehension by developers who don't have the time to develop such understandings. Of course they could take a leap of faith and trust these players, but it's a gamble discerning who's views are on point, and who's aren't. An unfortunate process.
On it's way..
AFAIK,although i've barely played either due to not liking the genre, Lol & DOTA2 both have a single game mode, yet have massive numbers of players. As a competitive game it could actually benefit from such focus on one game mode.
Looking back at some of the best selling games in the FPS genre, it's apparent that players want certain things...In fact there have been numerous studies on the psychology of gamers;
Progression: Look at COD,BF3/4 or a myriad of other AAA titles and you'll see that they have some form of progression such as "levelling up". This style of progression is just the latest trick developers use to fire off our reward pathways in our brains. Seeing a score pop up when you kill an enemy or complete a task is a trick almost as old as gaming itself. Top selling AAA FPS's today use a dual progression system. Over the course of a match, you'll have a tally of your stats build up (scoreboard) HUD displays of score/kills when completing something (usually accompanied by a congratulatory sound effect) and access to better weapon/equipment over the match
Additionally, titles such as LoL,DOTA,TF2,COD,Battlefield all have an out-of-match progression system. Over time, you level up (or increase in rank) and have access to a wealth of stats about your performance, which leads us nicely onto...
Rewards: Games today give players rewards for investing time in the game beyond a higher number (rank/level) next to their name. Getting something in return for doing a task makes you feel good. I've categorized it into 3 layers.
In-game rewards - sound effects,map control,hud displays ("Control point A Secured!") new equipment or a simple "good job" by your commander can be enough to make players feel good about what they accomplished.
Post Match - Music,Victory screen, match awards/stats such as MVP award and/or weapon stats
Overarching rewards - detailed stats, access to new equipment/characters/customization or other unlocks or achievments.
By using both rewards and progression techniques together you can extend the time a player spends with the game massively as he/she always feel that they're moving forward and getting "goodies" as they do even if they're not very good at the game.
Balance: I could write a 10,000 word essay on this (and others already have done) but i've gone on longer than I planned too already, so i'll keep it brief. As much as losing sucks, you can still find a lot of enjoyment from all those in game rewards IF it's been a balanced match. Losing badly, repetitively, will drive players away as it's simply not enjoyable. Matchmaking is now common and I think that option should be included in a competitive game, it's effectiveness will always be debated, but it'd have to be very poor to actually decrease the chances of balanced matches and anything is better than nothing...As long as it's optional
Now I could go on to talk about game play, accessibility, difficulty, variety, map design and a whole bunch of other areas of importance but I'll stop here as they've not really been discussed in this topic.
Some of the examples i've used are already used in NS2, others aren't appropriate. This is by no means a list of suggestions, but examples of possible triggers to create a sense of enjoyment.
TL:DR
The key to player retention and enjoyment is to understand the psychology of gamers and to exploit reward pathways in the brain to make the player feel good thus improving the odds of them enjoying the game.
Yes, 10 years ago. The old-style of free for all half-life-esque servers used to be the norm, but these days we have the technology to have much better systems in place. Games which are years old e.g. WC3 have matchmaking systems in place in addition to free for all servers. There's no reason modern games even FPS games such as NS2 couldn't make it work if the implementation is good enough. I think it would be great to have a system where PUG like games are the norm. For example, I would envision something along the lines of joining a queue for a 6v6 game through a matchmaking system. Once all players are found, teams are made based on a ranking system, lifeform preferences, comm's etc. teams would then have 2 minutes to form strats, then the game automatically begins.
Some things I hate about pubs:
- Joining a server takes forever. In AUS/NZ servers are almost always full. Sometimes I login, spend 10 minutes trying to join a server, then give up and quit because I am bored. Once I do get into the server, as OP mentioned the game can be anywhere from halfway done, to endgame turtle, to not even ready yet. I would have to wait even longer before I can start a game from the beginning.
- Most times no one wants to comm, therefore the game takes forever to start. Everyone just sits on the map bouncing around for 10 minutes until someone reluctantly goes into the comm chair. The fact that you need two comms in NS2 makes this problem much more prevalent and time consuming. I just want to play, and yes I do go comm most games.
- No strats in pub. There is never a strat in pub, such as 3 guys go lerk, 2 fades etc. the game develops organically as players do their own thing independent of each other.
- Team numbers. The most popular server in AUS/NZ is a 24 player server. The game is not balanced around 12v12, and most maps e.g. cavern produce some of the worst games with these high team numbers. Playing a game from beginning to end with a fixed format and team e.g. 6v6 or 8v8 is so much better.
Having a MM system as described above, would solve almost all of my most hated things about pubs. Teamwork and communication can never be guaranteed even in properly structured games, but that is isn't really the systems job to force communication between players.
Great post OP.
While I'm all for ranking so that we can have similarly skilled people playing together, I've a small nagging worry that implementing it in a very obvious way, portraying a rank that gives immediate feedback after the end of a round, might make people want to win a little too much, resulting in frustration and venting out, making the whole game a bit darker. JUST A BIT, mind you. Then again if it *really* helps with player retention I'mma throw my hands up "F*ck it lets do it! Gimme those f**king ribbons or whatever the sh*t they have in BF3!".
That's a double edged sword as well. Focus too much on the skinner boxes, and your playerbase will consist mainly of players who are only still in it for the "rewards" rather than the game itself. Best example are f2p games, which rely very heavily on skinner boxes, and also tend to bring out the worst in people.
Quite frankly I can't even understand the appeal of getting skins and other bling items. I would rather the community be small and consist of quality individuals that like the game for what it is, and want to improve their skill as part of their personal development, than consist of skin loving peasants that have nothing more to contribute than filling server slots while they chase achievements.
So true. Having "gun unlock" in NS2 would be such a terrible move.
Still, i wouldn't mind having my (awful) stats recorded and displayed on game menu.