Feedback for NSL Season 3 Requested

Zefram

Please head over to the NSL forums and leave your feedback for last season and thoughts going forward. Thanks!

http://www.ensl.org/topics/1006

joshhh

***Posted here because Zefram is Hitler and I don't follow Hitler's orders.

OP:

Points to consider for Season 4 (may require separate threads):

1) Custom HUD Mod by Mendasp will be included. This is a done deal. I included it in the World Championship (not an NSL sponsored event) and it was met with glee and zero drawbacks. It's also already a part of the AusNS2 (Australian) league.

2) NSL Mod by Dragon. The pause function will work or is working and will be implemented during next season for disconnects. The question is, how many times per round(onece?) or match are you able to use one and how long should the pause last?

3) NO Clean Up Week or reschedules past the allotted time. My vision for the NSL is to have an active league with active teams. I'd like teams to play matches on a weekly basis and not delay matches and have marathon sessions at the end of the season. This is unfair to other teams that want to and are able to play weekly. The rules will reflect this sentiment and allow teams to schedule a match over two possible weekends or forfeit.

4) How do we handle situations where 2 teams can't agree to a time to play? I really don't have a good idea for this one. Suggestions would be helpful.

5) Possible change in merc rule from 2 mercs allowed per match down to 1. To go along with the league value of active teams, I was adamant about allowing only 1 merc per round/match, but considering the state of the competitive community this may not be feasible and it may be better to just allow teams a chance to play. This would be rather disappointing though, because if a team is active, it should be able to field 5 players, especially if it's a confirmed match.

6) Roster changes with locked rosters 2 weeks before the end of the season. This isn't to bar players from joining teams, but keeping the environment fair. Last season, we saw players from teams who had no chance for the playoffs stack teams that were in contention. Also, we saw teams that had complete roster turn overs in the last weeks AND during the playoffs. This is just plain silly.

7) Add ns2_nsl_eclipse into the map rotation for Season 4? I'm kind of lukewarm towards jambi (the community has always been split on it) and hoping to add more maps into the rotation. Please direct your thoughts towards this thread: http://www.ensl.org/topics/1005

8.) Reducing the size of the premier division. Let's be honest, there's really only 5 or 6 teams that are able to compete in it.

1.) Good. Good.

2.) Big thanks to Dragon for making the mod. I personally would love to have a pause function. There needs to be some restrictions to when it can be used though. (ie crashes only)

3.) I am a huge advocate of removing the single end-of-season reschedule week. I am not sure how the S4 schedule will work but I personally would like to see something like a 2 week block for scheduling each match but have a new match each week. You have 1 week after the scheduled match week to play. This way, the maximum games you could possibly play in one weekend would be two.


4. Teams should be able to schedule matches within a two week period.

5. 1 Merc should be enforced imo. Any more than 1 and you can start changing the strength significantly of a team with super-mercs.

6. Good. Good.

7. Jambi, yes. Eclipse, no. Or at least see how it plays out in the Custom Cup first.

8. Keep the size. I know there will be some spots open so move up the top of Div1.

Frozen

Make Tram into two maps, one week alien south spawn, one week alien north spawn.

The map is good if the teams get the same spawns but is a completely different map when rotated.

SammyG

Josshy don't forget teams have the right to deny certain players from playing if the other team wants mercs. So super mercs can be avoided.

joshhh

I know. But it just becomes to the point where multiple mercs on a 6 player team just seem silly. If you have to use more than 1 merc, someone fck'd up with scheduling.

SammyG

I see your point and don't disagree with your reasoning but I have to point out that despite all of some teams best efforts at fielding 6 players it is not always possible, especially for the more casual teams. We currently do not have and not sure if we ever will have, enough players to have the luxury of every team having 6 reliable players on their roster. I can certainly see it being possible in Prem and perhaps some Div 1 teams that want to improve but less and less likely in the lower divisions.

It is a tricky one, but I think that teams will be less inclined to sign up knowing the effort it takes to find 6 players for a team let alone 6 players that can always be there no matter what. From last season alone it took a hell of alot of effort to keep our roster active, we lost 1 player due to motivation and uni, 1 to being hospitalised, 1 to not being online nearly enough, 1 to a internal disagreement..... you can see where I am going with this.

We managed to keep going but we suffered as a team because of this and never really got back to our old selves. We almost considered quitting entirely at one point. Of course not all teams will have the same issues but there is a good chance some of these issues will pop up on every roster.

Zefram

SammyG wrote: »

Josshy don't forget teams have the right to deny certain players from playing if the other team wants mercs. So super mercs can be avoided.

The only time a team can deny a merc is if the merc is a player from a higher division. I don't know where teams get the idea that they can just deny anyone they want. I've seen teams try to do this to force forfeits from other teams, which is unsportsmanlike. As long as a merc fits the criteria of being equal or lowered skilled, they're allowed to play.

SammyG

What if a player who played in Prem the previous Season then plays in Div 1 the next season and someone in Div 1 wants him to merc? Surely you can't judge him as being equal or lower skilled?

Also Quoted from ENSL rules "5. Teams may occasionally use up to 2 mercenaries (mercs). However, said mercs must be of equivalent level of the team (specified by the contest's subrules). The other team can refuse the use of mercenaries in general or of specific players, however it is highly encouraged by ENSL to play all matches as 6vs6."

This is why people feel like they can deny mercs especially if said merc actually gives the opposing team an advantage rather than a disadvantage. And rightly so if you ask me. I realise there are subset rules for each competition/season that have slight variation on the rules and I agree it is unsportsmanlike to deny mercs.

Imagine for example a team that is currently sat third in a division and it is the last match of the season, they need the win to place second. The team they are playing they know they can beat quite comfortably but oh wait 2 wild skilled mercs appear! Both from say the top team in the division that has won every match that season comfortably. This can vastly change the outcome of said match.

Surely you don't disagree that it is wrong for the current third placed team to deny those mercs knowing they have more skill than all the players on the team they are playing and on their own team?

Personally I would never deny a team the use of any merc, and priori (or the players that were in that team) can vouch for me. Yeah I want to win but not enough to accept a forfeit win because players can't field a team. I would sooner throw one of my players on the other team just so we can play some good games but I also do not want the merc system to get abused by teams to create situations like mentioned above.

Zefram

You make a good point. In the end, there's never going to be a rule that extends to every situation and we deal with things as they come. See why we need an overhaul of some of the NSL rules? The language isn't very specific and people find much wiggle room. I wish the only rule was, "Play your matches and be awesome to one another." But we have to spend time thinking and creating rules to deal with poor sportsmanship and decision making.

Therius

Zefram wrote: »

SammyG wrote: »

Josshy don't forget teams have the right to deny certain players from playing if the other team wants mercs. So super mercs can be avoided.

The only time a team can deny a merc is if the merc is a player from a higher division. I don't know where teams get the idea that they can just deny anyone they want. I've seen teams try to do this to force forfeits from other teams, which is unsportsmanlike. As long as a merc fits the criteria of being equal or lowered skilled, they're allowed to play.

ENSL Season 3 rules §6.4:

Subs are allowed only if the other team agrees on the players substituting. Dismissing players of roughly equal skill level with the opposing team is considered unsportsmanlike, a referee or admin can override the decision if nessesary.

I don't know where you get the idea that the teams can't deny anyone they want. This rule has been there for every season in NS2. Unsportsmanlike does not equal prohibited. Sure, "a referee or admin can override the decision if nessesary[sic]", but if the referee agrees for some reason, the opposing team can rule out your mercs.

Kaneh

iounno, maybe change it so that the rule is only one merc unless other team approves? that way the upper teams can keep the integrity of actually playing against a set team, but the lower divs can be more flexible with scheduling and sportsmanship and keep it relatively casual.

joshhh

The merc rule essentially needs to be written so it is more specific.
My opinion still stands that there can be 1 merc max. I feel that the merc should be approved by an the other team. Mass denying of mercs can be overruled by a ref/admin.

TheKarva

I wish you can take a close look and figure out together with all teams who belongs in which division for the next season. I think that div 3&4 were a bit scattered with some teams being in 3 that kind of belong in div4 and some div4 that should be in div 3. just check/ask who has close games usually, who beats who easy etc. Doesn't have to be 100% accurate, there's always room for surprises. But if you put a bit more effort in comparing the skill levels of all the teams, the teams will have much more fun, have more close exiting games and it will be more fun to watch too. And not knowing who will take the div top spot at the end of the season is really exciting. I know it can be a bit hard to place EU vs 'MURICA teams since they rarely play each other, but i think that can be figured out by comparing to teams of the own region first. The ENSL poll says 39 liked their divison and 30 didn't. (okay i know thats not a lot of votes) Now i did like my one and we hade some intense games but it could have been better. And rules state something about placement games after the finals for ups and downs but 3 seasons and never seen one? or did i miss something..

Now that we know the teams better after 3 seasons, ask for help to make the best out of the divisions. It wasn't bad before but i don't think I'm the only one who thinks some adjustments could be made. Since there's no ups and downs to gradually mould the divisions close to perfection over time and 25%+ of the teams are new or newly mixed from old disbanded teams, some effort should be put in the division setups, no?
I know it can be a tedious task and I hope i'm not asking for too much

The least you can do is set up the divisions well in advance and allow the teams to discuss and help out forming them based on their own perceptions. Not a random seeding game where we from div 4/3 play some team thats newly formed but consisting of purely div1 guys that we've had to go through.
I remember that in season 2 for example, we were placed one div higher than our buddies el'pheer who beats us without effort. We we're not having fun getting stomped the whole season in a div too high for us, and they didn't enjoy theirs either i can presume. We even tried asking swalk if we could simply just switch places right before the season officially started, i mean that can't be too much to ask for right? Didn't happen.. Really hits team morale and motivation to play. newbie teams straight out of pub have also not lived for longer than half a season because of this. But i guess the only way to avoid that is getting enough of fresh out of the oven teams to fill their own divison. I wish there would be more new teams, would also make us look better

Lookin forward to season 4!!

Kaneh

hahaha, should've seen the divisions before certain ppl got real angry and made changes happen.

simba

You should have seen the divisions in season 2

joshhh

There will be a rework of the divisions before Season 4 starts.

TheKarva

Thnx thats all i wanted to hear! season 2 seems to have been the low point of ns2nsl