Havester collision model

OnosFactory

Just a quick question, was the harvester collision model changed during the recent model collision updates performed?

It just seems that when one is building it has the hit box of a building harvester but a collision boundary of the full grown model?

elodea

you... mean you...

you've never tried to jump over a growing whip?

madness!

Ghosthree3

OnosFactory wrote: »

It just seems that when one is building it has the hit box of a building harvester but a collision boundary of the full grown model?

That's just lazy, clearly the box has already been made for the growing model, not using it for collision as well is just poor. I'm sure it was just over looked though...right?

xen32

I've always wondered why you can't easily get on top of unbuilt observatory... perhaps it has collision model of built one?

Ghosthree3

Possibly.

Roobubba

Definitely. Same for phase gates.

Mouse

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

OnosFactory wrote: »

It just seems that when one is building it has the hit box of a built harvester but a collision boundary of the full grown model?

That's just lazy, clearly the box has already been made for the growing model, not using it for collision as well is just poor. I'm sure it was just over looked though...right?

It's actually a reasonable decision IMO. When a player is up against something with an expanding/changing hitbox, they'll either become stuck inside it or pushed away. If they get pushed away, there's a chance that they'll be pushed into somewhere otherwise inaccessible or be pushed into (and become stuck in) some geometry.

The easiest way to avoid these possibilities is to make sure the hitbox never expands. For structures in NS2, this means always using their built hitbox.

OnosFactory

LoL, ta! Oh, I have battled seemingly infinitely with growing *shifts* for a hundred and fifty odd builds, how they used to grow from within the ground, small diameter top first, but you can't hit it because of the wider base that is/isn't there yet --- argh, the anguish!

Very well, I shall not question.

Ghosthree3

Mouse wrote: »

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

OnosFactory wrote: »

It just seems that when one is building it has the hit box of a built harvester but a collision boundary of the full grown model?

That's just lazy, clearly the box has already been made for the growing model, not using it for collision as well is just poor. I'm sure it was just over looked though...right?

It's actually a reasonable decision IMO. When a player is up against something with an expanding/changing hitbox, they'll either become stuck inside it or pushed away. If they get pushed away, there's a chance that they'll be pushed into somewhere otherwise inaccessible or be pushed into (and become stuck in) some geometry.

The easiest way to avoid these possibilities is to make sure the hitbox never expands. For structures in NS2, this means always using their built hitbox.

True, a better option still would be to push people out of the zone when it moves.

Mouse

Well the problem then is you have to somehow control where they get pushed too. So they don't get trapped between the structure and a wall or over a cliff or something.
It's one of those problems where you could either develop a comprehensive fix that addresses the consequence of an expanding hitbox or just deny the the player the opportunity to be confronted with an expanding hitbox.

RapGod

problem is engine. prob wrong tho.

Ghosthree3

Mouse wrote: »

Well the problem then is you have to somehow control where they get pushed too. So they don't get trapped between the structure and a wall or over a cliff or something.
It's one of those problems where you could either develop a comprehensive fix that addresses the consequence of an expanding hitbox or just deny the the player the opportunity to be confronted with an expanding hitbox.

I'm not saying it's not the easiest option, but it's definitely not the best. I'm sure it could be done, it may not be worth the effort though I'm not sure.

vartija

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

Mouse wrote: »

Well the problem then is you have to somehow control where they get pushed too. So they don't get trapped between the structure and a wall or over a cliff or something.
It's one of those problems where you could either develop a comprehensive fix that addresses the consequence of an expanding hitbox or just deny the the player the opportunity to be confronted with an expanding hitbox.

I'm not saying it's not the easiest option, but it's definitely not the best. I'm sure it could be done, it may not be worth the effort though I'm not sure.

I hate to tell you that in computer science simplest solution is most likely the best. I agree with you though but your not making it easy for me!

Ghosthree3

We're not talking about the simplest solution to achieve the same end though, so the rule doesn't apply

sotanaht

The best solution is one-way collision. The expanding building does not push players, but any player inside the hitbox of the building can freely pass through that hitbox until they are on the outside again. The collision only works when the player moves at the object from the outside, and not when the object moves at the player or the player moves from inside.

The downside of this approach is that players could hide inside of structure models. I don't think any structures are large enough to completely hide a marine though so it wouldn't really be an issue.

Ghosthree3

Yep that's a good fix. I approve.

SamusDroid

sotanaht wrote: »

The best solution is one-way collision. The expanding building does not push players, but any player inside the hitbox of the building can freely pass through that hitbox until they are on the outside again. The collision only works when the player moves at the object from the outside, and not when the object moves at the player or the player moves from inside.

The downside of this approach is that players could hide inside of structure models. I don't think any structures are large enough to completely hide a marine though so it wouldn't really be an issue.

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

Yep that's a good fix. I approve.

Glad you approve, because this is how it currently is in game. Have you never tried standing on a rt point when com drops an rt, you can walk right through it.

xen32

SamusDroid wrote: »

sotanaht wrote: »

The best solution is one-way collision. The expanding building does not push players, but any player inside the hitbox of the building can freely pass through that hitbox until they are on the outside again. The collision only works when the player moves at the object from the outside, and not when the object moves at the player or the player moves from inside.

The downside of this approach is that players could hide inside of structure models. I don't think any structures are large enough to completely hide a marine though so it wouldn't really be an issue.

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

Yep that's a good fix. I approve.

Glad you approve, because this is how it currently is in game. Have you never tried standing on a rt point when com drops an rt, you can walk right through it.

Uh, I remember being stuck inside freshly dropped CC. Guess it is possible because there is emptiness inside?

IronHorse

Yes.
You can actually drop an RT on a player, (not EXACTLY in the same position, but basically on the player still, given the collision model) they can build while in it.. and then when its fully built still remain in it.. until they walk out of it then the collision is reapplied.

CC's dont do this as well for other reasons (same reason you used to be able to get an arc stuck under a CC)

Ghosthree3

SamusDroid wrote: »

sotanaht wrote: »

The best solution is one-way collision. The expanding building does not push players, but any player inside the hitbox of the building can freely pass through that hitbox until they are on the outside again. The collision only works when the player moves at the object from the outside, and not when the object moves at the player or the player moves from inside.

The downside of this approach is that players could hide inside of structure models. I don't think any structures are large enough to completely hide a marine though so it wouldn't really be an issue.

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

Yep that's a good fix. I approve.

Glad you approve, because this is how it currently is in game. Have you never tried standing on a rt point when com drops an rt, you can walk right through it.

So...why is the collision model so strange then?

RadimaX

well i hate when you kill the harvester and its still a solid wall for atleast 5 extra seconds blocking you mid air when its clearly nothing on screen, not even the ragdoll death animation of the harvester

Sewlek

RadimaX wrote: »

well i hate when you kill the harvester and its still a solid wall for atleast 5 extra seconds blocking you mid air when its clearly nothing on screen, not even the ragdoll death animation of the harvester

thats going to be fixed in next patch

Kouji_San

xen32 wrote: »

SamusDroid wrote: »

sotanaht wrote: »

The best solution is one-way collision. The expanding building does not push players, but any player inside the hitbox of the building can freely pass through that hitbox until they are on the outside again. The collision only works when the player moves at the object from the outside, and not when the object moves at the player or the player moves from inside.

The downside of this approach is that players could hide inside of structure models. I don't think any structures are large enough to completely hide a marine though so it wouldn't really be an issue.

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

Yep that's a good fix. I approve.

Glad you approve, because this is how it currently is in game. Have you never tried standing on a rt point when com drops an rt, you can walk right through it.

Uh, I remember being stuck inside freshly dropped CC. Guess it is possible because there is emptiness inside?

This sound very philosophical somehow :-?

MMZ_Torak

This reminded me of the "Old Days" of hiding an OC on top of an Extractor...

xDragon

Hitboxes and collision models are different, collision uses a less detailed version of the model, where any hit traces use the fully detailed model.

Soul_Rider

The hitbox will always be the siz of the model, as it is tied to the model, the collision is a simple pill (last time i checked) that is used to determine when it is interacting with other objects and players.

IronHorse

@soul_rider
Collision with the world is a pill / oval, and collision with players is an 8 sided cylinder

Soul_Rider

Ahh yes, I think that was changed to stop skulks sliding past marines

AurOn2

SamusDroid wrote: »

sotanaht wrote: »

The best solution is one-way collision. The expanding building does not push players, but any player inside the hitbox of the building can freely pass through that hitbox until they are on the outside again. The collision only works when the player moves at the object from the outside, and not when the object moves at the player or the player moves from inside.

The downside of this approach is that players could hide inside of structure models. I don't think any structures are large enough to completely hide a marine though so it wouldn't really be an issue.

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

Yep that's a good fix. I approve.

Glad you approve, because this is how it currently is in game. Have you never tried standing on a rt point when com drops an rt, you can walk right through it.

You can actually do more than that, you can jump so you're RIGHT ONTOP OF IT. And also build from inside it.

d0ped0g

MMZ_Torak wrote: »

This reminded me of the "Old Days" of hiding an OC on top of an Extractor...

I miss being able to hide almost completely inside an extractor as a marine. Simply jumping into one at the last minute ensured a few ninja phase gates went down undetected. Its pretty funny watching the aliens just move right past you if they're not diligent enough.