Suggestions for the editor
UncleCrunch
Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
Here are my notes from my own experience with the editor. See it as suggestions.
I decided to give an evaluation on what's easy to do and what is more difficult.
1 * = easy
5 * = difficult
Here we go
Interface
General
* Show if "pathing tool" is working or not.
** Apparently you can create note in-game for the map but not while in the editor. Would be great. Create a note and attach to a face / prop etc.
Sound selector and player
* Add the length of sound in the list
* Add a stop button on the interface.
** Modify a vertex by entering the numeric values. Sometimes it's better.
** Open several file at the same time.
View-ports
** Grid should always be under the objects. Boxes like entities are just close to invisible sometimes.
* Light, sounds : A 3D model for entities instead of a single face object. Sometime they re just to damn hard to catch.
* Rulers are good. Sometime you just need it. period.
*** When a lot of object aren't hidden it become impossible to see anything. Sometimes you have to let them visible. It would be great to have a focus option on the 2D view-ports so you only see the surrounding of the selection. So while it move amongst the $|||t load of props you can see where it goes.
** Show vertexes that can be welded together automatically.
** A shortcut that prevents the use of the square in the helpers. So only arrows are active.
* make the 3 arrow helper always face the camera. Some angles are just impossible.
Layer box
**Group layer like folders (hierarchy).
***Option to lock a layer (no modification)
* Doubleclick on layer selects every "child" of this layer.
Groups box
*Moving up and down groups isn't possible...
**group ... groups like folders.
Movement
*Option to redefine keys dedicated to "right+movement key". WASD not good on AZERTY keyboards.
** Instead of 1 zoom key : 2 zoom keys. 1 for close/centered 1 other for far away. Sometimes you have to "go in" and "go out" rapidly and for a good deal of props/entities.
Spot light
* Cone should be visible when rotating.
** But better than that. A spot is an origin point and a target. It would be far better to have to manipulate only two points. Spots needs a great deal of time to set up while a 2 dot systems will be make us saving many minutes if not hours. It doesn't change how the engine manage it. It just a dummi in the editor that is more human friendly.
** Zooming on a spot should not zoom on the single face but the entire cone.
Selection
interface
* Using shift + click to exclude any other.
* On "vertex / line / face / light / props/ entities" button : Select one and exclude all other button
* On layers Eye (or lock) : Display/lock only the layer selected or all other layer except the clicked one.
View-ports
*** Selection with circle or N-Gon (hmmmmm) and / or Lasso.
** Selection +CTRL should only add and not invert. It's better to have a Add selection key and a remove from selection key.
Library stuff (filter text field)
*** Texture, props can be tricky to find. If you want a yellow checker marble with cracks... the names can get really long. Instead of having big names what about a tag system ? Sticking tag on texture, props etc, is a good way to do it.
Texture
*** Instead of giving a ratio for the texture, i prefer to set how many time i want it on the height or width.
ex: Instead of writing 0.25 (as a ratio) i write 4 (times) for the width and the editor resize it to make sure it appears 3 times in the face width.
Functions
General
** Being able to set the origin point (temporarily) of any selection to have better possibility. The actual function only allow to change origin for "move" and only for center and corners of the selected items.
** By holding a key and move the mouse; center view on the selection and turn around the selection.
*** Put it / Blow it up : put an object on a table only works if origin points are set properly (ALT key). It would be good to have a function that just put objects (props) depending on 3D and not on origin points.
**** Also being able to blow up things in order to render some kind of mess in the room.
*** A ribbon for measuring distances. or an option to have a indication of the length of the lines. Especially big ones.
** Copy and paste close to the view location. Sometime it's annoying to get back (or zoom out) where the copied stuff is and move.
** Texture alignment grid on faces. So it's easier to align. Sometime you can't see it clearly.
Check tools
*** Definitely need to highlight what wrong in the map. The invalid triangle in-game while ok in the editor just tells a lot about checks in the editor.
Props
Prefab maker
*** Actually you only have props and that's it. It would be good to be able to assemble several props in the editor and make new props with it. I'm thinking about catwalk + 2 set of rails. This system would allow to make any combination easily instead of making a 3D import for each.
Alignment anchors
**** Tarp + crate means alignment. Sometimes you have to take time to do that while an anchor system can help. If props have anchors so you can align easily the tarp and the crate. (Need a lot of time to do it so many stars)
** Every prop spawned in the perspective view-port should face the camera when it is applied/created on a wall (face). You often have to rotate 180° to bring it back.
--- 3 D ---
As the game is based on props (3d objects) and the so called "geometry" it would be interesting to have some real 3D functions.
Let's go for :
** -a shaper that can store shapeS in the .level file. So we can re-use the shapes anytime. Cleaner than having this in the map itself.
*** -skew tool
**** -a bender tool (haaaa yes)
****-a boolean tool (hooo lalala , lusty)
*****-a planar cut tool. If i want to cut a cylinder with a diagonal i end up doing it with vertexes... Draw a line, cut selection, period.
** Array copy of selection. Including radial options. Sometimes replicating on line is useful especially in industrial environment.
-- 2D to 3D --
If a shaper exists we can create geometry with simple radial function... Some would say it's not a 3D modeler. Well, most of the maps are made from pure 3D sculpting...
*** Programmable entities that can control props. I'm thinking of door. but we can do more like in smelting or better. Animation is a key in giving life to maps.
***What about a dedicated cloud for mapper that can be used for project like "cooperative mapping". It won't hurt the FTP, better than steam workshop as it's not public. Restricted access (serious minds).
in-game:
*** A file selector for launching a map easaaaaay. Command line sux sometimes.
Bugs (not sure):
Duplicating (the function) apparently makes duplicated objects blue. And if you clone it again it gets blue-er and blue-er.
Sound interface seem broken and plays whatever it wants...
Feel free to add more. I know devs may not invest time in it but at least it shows where dev should put a little more attention. Once the editor is good, everything go smoothly.
Edit: A lost page of notes added.
I decided to give an evaluation on what's easy to do and what is more difficult.
1 * = easy
5 * = difficult
Here we go
Interface
General
* Show if "pathing tool" is working or not.
** Apparently you can create note in-game for the map but not while in the editor. Would be great. Create a note and attach to a face / prop etc.
Sound selector and player
* Add the length of sound in the list
* Add a stop button on the interface.
** Modify a vertex by entering the numeric values. Sometimes it's better.
** Open several file at the same time.
View-ports
** Grid should always be under the objects. Boxes like entities are just close to invisible sometimes.
* Light, sounds : A 3D model for entities instead of a single face object. Sometime they re just to damn hard to catch.
* Rulers are good. Sometime you just need it. period.
*** When a lot of object aren't hidden it become impossible to see anything. Sometimes you have to let them visible. It would be great to have a focus option on the 2D view-ports so you only see the surrounding of the selection. So while it move amongst the $|||t load of props you can see where it goes.
** Show vertexes that can be welded together automatically.
** A shortcut that prevents the use of the square in the helpers. So only arrows are active.
* make the 3 arrow helper always face the camera. Some angles are just impossible.
Layer box
**Group layer like folders (hierarchy).
***Option to lock a layer (no modification)
* Doubleclick on layer selects every "child" of this layer.
Groups box
*Moving up and down groups isn't possible...
**group ... groups like folders.
Movement
*Option to redefine keys dedicated to "right+movement key". WASD not good on AZERTY keyboards.
** Instead of 1 zoom key : 2 zoom keys. 1 for close/centered 1 other for far away. Sometimes you have to "go in" and "go out" rapidly and for a good deal of props/entities.
Spot light
* Cone should be visible when rotating.
** But better than that. A spot is an origin point and a target. It would be far better to have to manipulate only two points. Spots needs a great deal of time to set up while a 2 dot systems will be make us saving many minutes if not hours. It doesn't change how the engine manage it. It just a dummi in the editor that is more human friendly.
** Zooming on a spot should not zoom on the single face but the entire cone.
Selection
interface
* Using shift + click to exclude any other.
* On "vertex / line / face / light / props/ entities" button : Select one and exclude all other button
* On layers Eye (or lock) : Display/lock only the layer selected or all other layer except the clicked one.
View-ports
*** Selection with circle or N-Gon (hmmmmm) and / or Lasso.
** Selection +CTRL should only add and not invert. It's better to have a Add selection key and a remove from selection key.
Library stuff (filter text field)
*** Texture, props can be tricky to find. If you want a yellow checker marble with cracks... the names can get really long. Instead of having big names what about a tag system ? Sticking tag on texture, props etc, is a good way to do it.
Texture
*** Instead of giving a ratio for the texture, i prefer to set how many time i want it on the height or width.
ex: Instead of writing 0.25 (as a ratio) i write 4 (times) for the width and the editor resize it to make sure it appears 3 times in the face width.
Functions
General
** Being able to set the origin point (temporarily) of any selection to have better possibility. The actual function only allow to change origin for "move" and only for center and corners of the selected items.
** By holding a key and move the mouse; center view on the selection and turn around the selection.
*** Put it / Blow it up : put an object on a table only works if origin points are set properly (ALT key). It would be good to have a function that just put objects (props) depending on 3D and not on origin points.
**** Also being able to blow up things in order to render some kind of mess in the room.
*** A ribbon for measuring distances. or an option to have a indication of the length of the lines. Especially big ones.
** Copy and paste close to the view location. Sometime it's annoying to get back (or zoom out) where the copied stuff is and move.
** Texture alignment grid on faces. So it's easier to align. Sometime you can't see it clearly.
Check tools
*** Definitely need to highlight what wrong in the map. The invalid triangle in-game while ok in the editor just tells a lot about checks in the editor.
Props
Prefab maker
*** Actually you only have props and that's it. It would be good to be able to assemble several props in the editor and make new props with it. I'm thinking about catwalk + 2 set of rails. This system would allow to make any combination easily instead of making a 3D import for each.
Alignment anchors
**** Tarp + crate means alignment. Sometimes you have to take time to do that while an anchor system can help. If props have anchors so you can align easily the tarp and the crate. (Need a lot of time to do it so many stars)
** Every prop spawned in the perspective view-port should face the camera when it is applied/created on a wall (face). You often have to rotate 180° to bring it back.
--- 3 D ---
As the game is based on props (3d objects) and the so called "geometry" it would be interesting to have some real 3D functions.
Let's go for :
** -a shaper that can store shapeS in the .level file. So we can re-use the shapes anytime. Cleaner than having this in the map itself.
*** -skew tool
**** -a bender tool (haaaa yes)
****-a boolean tool (hooo lalala , lusty)
*****-a planar cut tool. If i want to cut a cylinder with a diagonal i end up doing it with vertexes... Draw a line, cut selection, period.
** Array copy of selection. Including radial options. Sometimes replicating on line is useful especially in industrial environment.
-- 2D to 3D --
If a shaper exists we can create geometry with simple radial function... Some would say it's not a 3D modeler. Well, most of the maps are made from pure 3D sculpting...
*** Programmable entities that can control props. I'm thinking of door. but we can do more like in smelting or better. Animation is a key in giving life to maps.
***What about a dedicated cloud for mapper that can be used for project like "cooperative mapping". It won't hurt the FTP, better than steam workshop as it's not public. Restricted access (serious minds).
in-game:
*** A file selector for launching a map easaaaaay. Command line sux sometimes.
Bugs (not sure):
Duplicating (the function) apparently makes duplicated objects blue. And if you clone it again it gets blue-er and blue-er.
Sound interface seem broken and plays whatever it wants...
Feel free to add more. I know devs may not invest time in it but at least it shows where dev should put a little more attention. Once the editor is good, everything go smoothly.
Edit: A lost page of notes added.