MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2015
Beta version 3.50 is out on the workshop.
Changelog:
- Rebuilt stuff in Mineral Processing, reflected much of the feedback received lately. - Removed the blue crate in Mineral Processing as it is no longer needed because of the changes to the room. - Moved vent entrances in Generators and lit them better to feel more intuitive. - Rearranged and removed some crates in Storage. - Fixed issue where automatically placed cyst chains would place a cyst inside the generator structures in Generators.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2015
To be honest it wasn't easy to fix it. It required a whole deal of thought and a lot of different approaches were tested over several days. Once the current solution "appeared" to me though it was quite a lot faster to transform than what I originally thought would be required. Glad you like it though, and I hope others find it pleasing as well!
To be honest it wasn't easy to fix it. It required a whole deal of thought and a lot of different approaches were tested over several days. Once the current solution "appeared" to me though it was quite a lot faster to transform than what I originally thought would be required. Glad you like it though, and I hope others find it pleasing as well!
I did not mean to demean your work. By easy, I was thinking something a lot more would change and a lot more geometry work. You are right though, finding a solution in reality is probably a more difficult task than using the editor.
I have not played in it yet, but I just did a few walk through's as marine and skulk. I really want to try some combat. I will let you know how it plays out on tgns.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Oh I didn't think you were demeaning it! Just telling it like it is:) Hoping to have the opportunity to spectate a mineral game on tgns soon, could take feedback and possibly questions directly!
Combat felt alright in it, definitely easier to push as marines (which is a good thing compared to the previous version) and to navigate in to both sides. Flat still complained about railings getting in the way. Haven't heard anyone talk about that, but yeah, in some cases they can be annoying.
Also, as Flat, I've been "stuck" in teh ceiling in Leak, but I already told you about this, and know you'll fix this ceiling height some way or another. Other than that, I don't have much to say.
I have heard complaints about the railings on tgns. As far as I am concerned, all railings are annoying in ns2. Veil and nanogrid is a good example of annoying rails. In mineral processing I just don't go where the railings are. They are easy enough to avoid.
Oh I didn't think you were demeaning it! Just telling it like it is:) Hoping to have the opportunity to spectate a mineral game on tgns soon, could take feedback and possibly questions directly!
Are you European? The best time to do that might be a bit late for you? Maybe even early. I will send you a message with some details to try and organize this. TGNS, although a community, is very decentralized and we vote for maps with no set rotation. I can try to persuade and ask enough people ahead of time to an organize a game of mineral at a specific time. I can say right now Friday Evening NA timezones is when we do captains games and you will get the best games and feedback.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Beta 3.60 is out on the workshop.
Change log:
- Updated theme style for Generators to match the rest of the clean locations in the map. - Redid lighting for Generators. - Moved vent entrance for the Generators/Break Room vent in Generators and made it shine more. Should be more intuitive to enter. - Added the middle vent in Generators back in, but it doesn't connect to any other places. - Toned down lighting in East Path, removed some lights and changed some colors. - Added variation of a Descent door model with red lights instead of blue to help players identify that the doors are in fact closed. - Updated detail in Lockers to match the rest of the clean theme better. - Redid Lockers lighting completely. - Added some detail to the previously boring walls in Automation. - Increased ceiling height in Leak. - Added liquid "mineral"(water) material in Leak. Justifies the location name. - Removed a left over face in Water Flow B. - Removed some stuff around the map from the commander view. - Brightened lights for the vent entrance in Storage to highlight it slightly. - Probably some more random stuff that I forgot about.
I would post some screens of the new details but I really can't be bothered to do it at the moment. Feel free to check it out for yourselves!
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Yes that's the one. Seems weird. The join aliens entity is really close to the broken door though in case you didn't go far enough. Let me know if it keeps being an issue, I will look into it for the next release either way.
When MasterG came to spectate TGNS, we both tested the alien join door. I was wrong. It works, just not how I expected. I usually use j1 or j2 to join so I must not have ever tried the alien door before. Most maps put the join entity right behind the text. I am told this is a design decision. It is there so everything is good.
The best part though was one of the most exciting games I have ever had of ns2 last night happened on mineral. Someone recorded it too. MasterG was there too.
Oh you didn't go all the way to the door ? that explains it. It think he put it way back because the corridor is detailed, and the text is closer because it needs to be seen from the spawning points. I think that's the explanation anyway. Maybe @MasterG could bring the join team entity a little bit closer to avoid confusion in the future
LOL this is the worst tunnel possible in Break room xD I would've understood in the closed door alcove in Pump or next to the RT inside the RT room in Pump, but in Break it was way to vulnerable. Good idea though to put a forward tunnel closer to the center of the map and not actually in Automation (that has no viable tunnel placement btw, which isn't an issue since it's so close to marines base). I'll edit when I finish the video
EDIT : 22mn48 LOL THAT TUNNEL behind the desk in Automation xD nvm me saying "there is no viable tunnel position in Auto" haha
EDIT 2 : OMG commander made a rookie mistake. He dropped a blueprint of a CC in Prod, and said "I have no res to beacon", then went to Prod and said "build the chair". NO NO NO, remove the blueprint, get your res back and beacon.. Too bad he didn't thought of that during the action.
Really nice game, really nice things seen in this round. awesome to watch, thanks @Nordic
Really? I have been under the impression that breakroom is a strong tunnel spot. In that round, I was aliens and it was my idea to put it there. At least on tgns I have seen tunnels go there and so far been pretty strong and hard to root out. In that round the marine sent in nearly their whole team twice and still did not take it. It take our whole team to defend from that through, which allowed the marines to get a lot of res built. They did spend a ton of res on meds for that tunnel push. It may have a long ish line of sight for marines, so I agree it is vulnerable in that way. A few clogs though, and that line of site is gone. The pillars on the side make it a somewhat alien friendly room. I would like to hear more of why it is such a bad spot since in my experience it has been pretty strong. I guess it could be stronger further towards pump control outside of arc range, where there is less of a line of sight.
It was a great game, but credit for the video goes to @rad4Christ
Well, the comm announced a focus but no one listenned during the first push. 4 marines, one tunnel. Wether you have a crag and a gorge or not, there were no clogs so it should've went down. Kill the gorge, then kill the tunnel, or put enough bullet into the gorge so he doesn't come back.
The call to snipe the base tunnel entrance was the way to go though. Sad it didn't happen. But overall it was a pretty weak tunnel position and weak marines push
There were clogs. I did not see them in the video, but there were clogs. I was there as alien. They were put up right after the tunnel was. I watched it happen.
I guess the tunnel could of been stronger if put further towards pump control outside of arc range, where there is less of a line of sight.
"Break room power needs to be on the left wall. It is currently unassailable." Marines had a base in breakroom to put that into context. Aliens could not take the gate with onos because of armories so they wanted to take the power but could not.
Fade got stuck on a lip here much to the marines humor. He did not find it so funny. Edit: Editor being terrible to me. So you just get a image url. http://i.imgur.com/T6ACGXM.jpg
"If you build on the right side it's very difficult to take. Power node is protected and a gorge trying bile from vent will be very exposed. Maybe put it to the left or under the B?"
The marines had quite a strong set up in breakroom with armories that blocked the gate and powernode making the room easy to defend for marines. I can see the exact same base happen just on the opposite side, this time on the left because the room is symmetrical.
In response I was told: "Yeah he could set up on the left and it's still powerful. But now there are options and it has opportunity. What I saw that last game it was locked pretty tight. You can get a direct hit on the powernode. It's glancing damage at best. You also have to move to the far left of the vent to bile and that leaves you over exposed. I'm not saying any room should be able to be biled easily, but that is really difficult. But in the left, or moreover under the b, he can hit and run. either way. Just suggestions."
He also had this to say about generators: "Also maybe move powernode in hen to the left room to make it more vulnerable. Right now marines can lock down the right silo and hold it safely."
Generators is a pretty strong phase gate position. In my experience, and his, it has been pretty hard to get marines out of there. The vent, not shown the map above, that exits near the rt is easily defended by marines just standing in the back. It is a helpful vent though, but not very easy to bile from. If the powernode was moved to the left silo it would give the aliens some options. If they are having problems killing the gate, they have the option to go for the powernode.
Both breakroom and generators had gates in the last games we played. Both 40 minute plus games where the marines had sentries and armory walls. It was very hard to get them out. I say this to give some more context to this feedback. Both areas marines were able to get an incredibly strong base that took 3 onos to take.
Also, another person found it odd that lounge had two powernodes. I have heard many say this map has too many powernodes, but this is the first time I have heard someone gave a specific location.
"Also maybe move powernode in hen to the left room to make it more vulnerable. Right now marines can lock down the right silo and hold it safely."
Generators is a pretty strong phase gate position. In my experience, and his, it has been pretty hard to get marines out of there. The vent, not shown the map above, that exits near the rt is easily defended by marines just standing in the back. It is a helpful vent though, but not very easy to bile from. If the powernode was moved to the left silo it would give the aliens some options. If they are having problems killing the gate, they have the option to go for the powernode.
Also, another person found it odd that lounge had two powernodes. I have heard many say this map has too many powernodes, but this is the first time I have heard someone gave a specific location.
The PN in Gen was placed there on an older version of the map, where you had the vent above that came from Min Pro, so easy to get up there as gorge and bile (without the marines being able to punish such a douchy play). What I noticed while playing or spec-ing the map was that indeed the right "silo" was a pretty strong part to hold for marines. I think it has now been weakened thanks to the return of the vent between the two silos and also the vent that comes from Connection. However, I think putting the PN back to its original location (ie left part of the room, towards East Path entrance) is indeed the way to go. That way you have to have a dynamic defense from the marines and aliens can engage/tackle the situation with a lot more possibilities. So I agree to move the PN back to its original location, I think this is a great idea that could help aliens with the PG in the right silo situation. We'll have to see though, if a gate in Gen is still viable after this change (I'd say having a gorge in comp-format games is less likely, although people do say that gorges on Mineral can be quite effective).
About the Lounge and the two power nodes, it's KingCovert that says that in the video and he's wrong I know, it's not intuitive but the corridor between Lounge and Prod is a room entity called Water Flow B (you can see it at the top left of the video). This corridor has been made a room pretty for the same reasons as Repair or Leak. Arcs, and some pg locations. I won't get into the details because I'm lazy and masterG might wanna give the reasons why this is a room, but basically it's the same reason why Repair and Leak have been created. Solution : get Water Flow B onto the minimap, for less confusion.
Also, I lol'ed pretty hard yesterday while playing mineral during a gather. Hey @MasterG ! You forgot a trim there. Where are them ocds when you need them
EDIT : the hell is going on with the editor ? can't use spoiler tags or img tags anymore ?
I missed him saying that in the video. It was him bringing it up again last night that prompted the comment. Glad you agree on the gen powernode location.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2015
I agree about the power node in Generators now that the vents have been redesigned.
About Break room I need to look harder and longer at it to determine what will be the best approach. The fact is that Break needs an upgrade to the visuals as well so I believe during that process I will come up with a good solution. As for marines blocking Break Room with armories on the stairs there it shouldn't be an issue as any alien lifeform can move through the holes between the pillars and the walls.
Water Flow B(between Lounge and Production) exists because it felt weird to have Lounge connect directly to Production. Being a separate PN location is because of the same reasons stated by MV above. It used to be connected to the Production PN. But because of the potential problem with dropping structures there(during potential pushes) which would require the power in Prod to be up, it was decided that it was better to give it a separate power node instead. It makes no sense to connect it to the Lounge PN because the areas are so different in style and aesthetic purpose. However I'm not sure I want to put its name on the map, at least I would need to drop the name so it doesn't cover anything on the minimap because its name is quite long and the corridor is quite small.
The issue in the image has been fixed, pure memory loss when I was redesigning Automation a while back. Thanks for noticing.
Comments
also, Mineral Pro is getting fixed as I write
Changelog:
- Rebuilt stuff in Mineral Processing, reflected much of the feedback received lately.
- Removed the blue crate in Mineral Processing as it is no longer needed because of the changes to the room.
- Moved vent entrances in Generators and lit them better to feel more intuitive.
- Rearranged and removed some crates in Storage.
- Fixed issue where automatically placed cyst chains would place a cyst inside the generator structures in Generators.
Enjoy!
I have not played in it yet, but I just did a few walk through's as marine and skulk. I really want to try some combat. I will let you know how it plays out on tgns.
Also, as Flat, I've been "stuck" in teh ceiling in Leak, but I already told you about this, and know you'll fix this ceiling height some way or another.
Other than that, I don't have much to say.
Are you European? The best time to do that might be a bit late for you? Maybe even early. I will send you a message with some details to try and organize this. TGNS, although a community, is very decentralized and we vote for maps with no set rotation. I can try to persuade and ask enough people ahead of time to an organize a game of mineral at a specific time. I can say right now Friday Evening NA timezones is when we do captains games and you will get the best games and feedback.
Change log:
- Updated theme style for Generators to match the rest of the clean locations in the map.
- Redid lighting for Generators.
- Moved vent entrance for the Generators/Break Room vent in Generators and made it shine more. Should be more intuitive to enter.
- Added the middle vent in Generators back in, but it doesn't connect to any other places.
- Toned down lighting in East Path, removed some lights and changed some colors.
- Added variation of a Descent door model with red lights instead of blue to help players identify that the doors are in fact closed.
- Updated detail in Lockers to match the rest of the clean theme better.
- Redid Lockers lighting completely.
- Added some detail to the previously boring walls in Automation.
- Increased ceiling height in Leak.
- Added liquid "mineral"(water) material in Leak. Justifies the location name.
- Removed a left over face in Water Flow B.
- Removed some stuff around the map from the commander view.
- Brightened lights for the vent entrance in Storage to highlight it slightly.
- Probably some more random stuff that I forgot about.
I would post some screens of the new details but I really can't be bothered to do it at the moment. Feel free to check it out for yourselves!
screens time :
The best part though was one of the most exciting games I have ever had of ns2 last night happened on mineral. Someone recorded it too. MasterG was there too.
Maybe @MasterG could bring the join team entity a little bit closer to avoid confusion in the future
Video compliments of Rad4Christ
I would've understood in the closed door alcove in Pump or next to the RT inside the RT room in Pump, but in Break it was way to vulnerable.
Good idea though to put a forward tunnel closer to the center of the map and not actually in Automation (that has no viable tunnel placement btw, which isn't an issue since it's so close to marines base).
I'll edit when I finish the video
EDIT : 22mn48 LOL THAT TUNNEL behind the desk in Automation xD nvm me saying "there is no viable tunnel position in Auto" haha
EDIT 2 : OMG commander made a rookie mistake. He dropped a blueprint of a CC in Prod, and said "I have no res to beacon", then went to Prod and said "build the chair". NO NO NO, remove the blueprint, get your res back and beacon.. Too bad he didn't thought of that during the action.
Really nice game, really nice things seen in this round. awesome to watch, thanks @Nordic
It may have a long ish line of sight for marines, so I agree it is vulnerable in that way. A few clogs though, and that line of site is gone. The pillars on the side make it a somewhat alien friendly room. I would like to hear more of why it is such a bad spot since in my experience it has been pretty strong. I guess it could be stronger further towards pump control outside of arc range, where there is less of a line of sight.
It was a great game, but credit for the video goes to @rad4Christ
The call to snipe the base tunnel entrance was the way to go though. Sad it didn't happen. But overall it was a pretty weak tunnel position and weak marines push
I guess the tunnel could of been stronger if put further towards pump control outside of arc range, where there is less of a line of sight.
"Break room power needs to be on the left wall. It is currently unassailable." Marines had a base in breakroom to put that into context. Aliens could not take the gate with onos because of armories so they wanted to take the power but could not.
Fade got stuck on a lip here much to the marines humor. He did not find it so funny. Edit: Editor being terrible to me. So you just get a image url.
http://i.imgur.com/T6ACGXM.jpg
Slightly old picture, but here for reference.
"If you build on the right side it's very difficult to take. Power node is protected and a gorge trying bile from vent will be very exposed. Maybe put it to the left or under the B?"
The marines had quite a strong set up in breakroom with armories that blocked the gate and powernode making the room easy to defend for marines. I can see the exact same base happen just on the opposite side, this time on the left because the room is symmetrical.
In response I was told:
"Yeah he could set up on the left and it's still powerful. But now there are options and it has opportunity. What I saw that last game it was locked pretty tight. You can get a direct hit on the powernode. It's glancing damage at best. You also have to move to the far left of the vent to bile and that leaves you over exposed. I'm not saying any room should be able to be biled easily, but that is really difficult. But in the left, or moreover under the b, he can hit and run. either way. Just suggestions."
"Also maybe move powernode in hen to the left room to make it more vulnerable. Right now marines can lock down the right silo and hold it safely."
Generators is a pretty strong phase gate position. In my experience, and his, it has been pretty hard to get marines out of there. The vent, not shown the map above, that exits near the rt is easily defended by marines just standing in the back. It is a helpful vent though, but not very easy to bile from. If the powernode was moved to the left silo it would give the aliens some options. If they are having problems killing the gate, they have the option to go for the powernode.
Both breakroom and generators had gates in the last games we played. Both 40 minute plus games where the marines had sentries and armory walls. It was very hard to get them out. I say this to give some more context to this feedback. Both areas marines were able to get an incredibly strong base that took 3 onos to take.
Also, another person found it odd that lounge had two powernodes. I have heard many say this map has too many powernodes, but this is the first time I have heard someone gave a specific location.
The PN in Gen was placed there on an older version of the map, where you had the vent above that came from Min Pro, so easy to get up there as gorge and bile (without the marines being able to punish such a douchy play). What I noticed while playing or spec-ing the map was that indeed the right "silo" was a pretty strong part to hold for marines. I think it has now been weakened thanks to the return of the vent between the two silos and also the vent that comes from Connection. However, I think putting the PN back to its original location (ie left part of the room, towards East Path entrance) is indeed the way to go. That way you have to have a dynamic defense from the marines and aliens can engage/tackle the situation with a lot more possibilities.
So I agree to move the PN back to its original location, I think this is a great idea that could help aliens with the PG in the right silo situation.
We'll have to see though, if a gate in Gen is still viable after this change (I'd say having a gorge in comp-format games is less likely, although people do say that gorges on Mineral can be quite effective).
About the Lounge and the two power nodes, it's KingCovert that says that in the video and he's wrong
This corridor has been made a room pretty for the same reasons as Repair or Leak. Arcs, and some pg locations. I won't get into the details because I'm lazy and masterG might wanna give the reasons why this is a room, but basically it's the same reason why Repair and Leak have been created.
Solution : get Water Flow B onto the minimap, for less confusion.
Also, I lol'ed pretty hard yesterday while playing mineral during a gather.
Hey @MasterG ! You forgot a trim there. Where are them ocds when you need them
EDIT : the hell is going on with the editor ? can't use spoiler tags or img tags anymore ?
About Break room I need to look harder and longer at it to determine what will be the best approach. The fact is that Break needs an upgrade to the visuals as well so I believe during that process I will come up with a good solution. As for marines blocking Break Room with armories on the stairs there it shouldn't be an issue as any alien lifeform can move through the holes between the pillars and the walls.
Water Flow B(between Lounge and Production) exists because it felt weird to have Lounge connect directly to Production. Being a separate PN location is because of the same reasons stated by MV above. It used to be connected to the Production PN. But because of the potential problem with dropping structures there(during potential pushes) which would require the power in Prod to be up, it was decided that it was better to give it a separate power node instead. It makes no sense to connect it to the Lounge PN because the areas are so different in style and aesthetic purpose. However I'm not sure I want to put its name on the map, at least I would need to drop the name so it doesn't cover anything on the minimap because its name is quite long and the corridor is quite small.
The issue in the image has been fixed, pure memory loss when I was redesigning Automation a while back. Thanks for noticing.