Legitimate query

N@uralBornNoobistN@uralBornNoobist Gorge-N-Freeman,2Gorges1Clog Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176138Members
edited February 2014 in NS2 General Discussion
How difficult is it to implement multi cpu support? will we ever see this happen for such a fun game?
WIll this improve 90+% of peoples gameplay experience?...sarcasm alert D:

I know next to nothing...I dont even want to know...im sure its enough to send a near cray cray persons mind.......cray cray.


Just a little about the real world difficulties that are "hindering" the "progressive" nature of logic handling by the cpu.
Why there isnt a piece of "middleware" that can just be added to your already fantastic piece of hieroglyphic code mastery? that can literally "Terraform" your logic into something with true beauty.

Why just use 1 power ranger? mighty morph dat son!
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Comments

  • tallhotblondetallhotblonde Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174770Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'm sure if it was possible then they would have done it by now
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  • ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
    edited February 2014
    I'm pretty sure the game already has multicore rendering. I know there use to be an option for it, but it's gone now.

    I think the console command is r_mt
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2014
    Ns2 is using about 2.5 cores last I heard, but because of the nature game logic in general and lua, multithreading isn't the magic bullet for more performance, in some cases it can even be slower threading stuff.


    Also... In before the more technical explanations :P
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  • N@uralBornNoobistN@uralBornNoobist Gorge-N-Freeman,2Gorges1Clog Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176138Members
    @ tallhotblonde - I hear ya...every1 else...I CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH.
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  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2014
    Probably because it takes a bunch of effort to do so and I don't see UWE putting that kind of effort into the game. Also the lua portion would also need to have support for multi-cpu.

    The server uses roughly 1.3 cores, which is pretty ridiculous. It needs it even more then the client does.
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2014
    N@uralBornNoobist wrote: »
    @ tallhotblonde - I hear ya...every1 else...I CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH.

    Alright let me try this again... I think we can all agree that the Green Ranger is more powerful than all the other rangers combined right? So in essence, the Green Ranger is an Intel CPU with all the brute force it needs, while the other rangers are a multicore AMD, that require a mighty morphing team to get things done :P
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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Omega_K2 wrote: »
    Probably because it takes a bunch of effort to do so and I don't see UWE putting that kind of effort into the game. Also the lua portion would also need to have support for multi-cpu.

    The server uses roughly 1.3 cores, which is pretty ridiculous. It needs it even more then the client does.

    Afaik lua can handle multicore.
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  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Members
    edited February 2014
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    N@uralBornNoobist wrote: »
    @ tallhotblonde - I hear ya...every1 else...I CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH.

    Alright let me try this again... I think we can all agree that the Green Ranger is more powerful than all the other rangers combined right? So in essence, the Green Ranger is an Intel CPU with all the brute force it needs, while the other rangers are a multicore AMD, that require a mighty morphing team to get things done :P

    And just like the Green Ranger it gets weaker as the game goes on until all thats left is a dude with a ponytail.
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  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Ns2 is using about 2.5 cores last I heard, but because of the nature game logic in general and lua, multithreading isn't the magic bullet for more performance, in some cases it can even be slower threading stuff.
    Quoted for confirmation
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  • BensonBenson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I would think that the largest area for performance increase would be to start changing some of the game code from LUA to a Compiled language.

    IDK if there is an "easy" way to convert or if it has to all be rewritten from scratch, but from all the threads I've seen about performance, it always comes down to the LUA.

    Spark is reportedly fast and efficient, and using 2+ cores is optimal.

    P.S. this is just from other threads on preformance, i dont know the first thing about programming
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  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    edited February 2014
    F0rdPrefect wrote: »
    Omega_K2 wrote: »
    Probably because it takes a bunch of effort to do so and I don't see UWE putting that kind of effort into the game. Also the lua portion would also need to have support for multi-cpu.

    The server uses roughly 1.3 cores, which is pretty ridiculous. It needs it even more then the client does.

    Afaik lua can handle multicore.

    What you mean is Unity engine cant handle multi-core physics. I'm sure there is multi-core rendering on spark.

    Just fyi, unity's linux multi-core physics works fine, but windows one is incredibly unstable.
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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    coolitic wrote: »
    F0rdPrefect wrote: »
    Omega_K2 wrote: »
    Probably because it takes a bunch of effort to do so and I don't see UWE putting that kind of effort into the game. Also the lua portion would also need to have support for multi-cpu.

    The server uses roughly 1.3 cores, which is pretty ridiculous. It needs it even more then the client does.

    Afaik lua can handle multicore.

    What you mean is Unity engine cant handle multi-core physics. I'm sure there is multi-core rendering on spark.

    Just fyi, unity's linux multi-core physics works fine, but windows one is incredibly unstable.

    Uhm... no. That's not what I mean. I don't know where you get Unity from now.

    What I meant is that LUA, as a language, supports working with multiple cores.
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  • N@uralBornNoobistN@uralBornNoobist Gorge-N-Freeman,2Gorges1Clog Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176138Members
    edited February 2014
    Last selfish point, I kinda am an ati fanboy...however all this aside im using an nvidia 550ti which can utilize physx. Now, from an upgrade standpoint..dilema standpoint...

    is better to go with a better nvidia physx capable gpu? or a new motherboard, cpu, ram bam ty you mam setup?

    ive noticed "significant" solid gameplay performance from enabling physx.

    hopefully this makes sense...after reading back my queries i sometimes cant understand what ive put myself ^^,
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I was under the impression that physx actually wasn't used. Maybe I am wrong.
    To answer whether you should upgrade your cpu/motherboard/ram or your gpu we need to know your entire setup.
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  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    james888 wrote: »
    I was under the impression that physx actually wasn't used. Maybe I am wrong.
    To answer whether you should upgrade your cpu/motherboard/ram or your gpu we need to know your entire setup.
    The PhysX SDK is used by the game as its physx library. This runs on the CPU.

    Recently they added an option for Nvidia users to accelerate this on the GPU with an option.

    BUT! If you check to see if the game is using the GPU for any PhysX calculations NVCP reports that NS2 is still using the CPU. Either NS2s GPU physX option is borked... or NVCP is measuring incorrectly.
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  • N@uralBornNoobistN@uralBornNoobist Gorge-N-Freeman,2Gorges1Clog Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176138Members
    edited February 2014
    q6600 2.4 @3.1 "wont go higher on this board" 8g ddr3 Nvidia 550Ti 1g ddr5 "using Physx-Tick" 1030 core 4760 mem. Thinking, this might help a few people decide on full/partial upgrades.
    Basically...hyperthetical dilema is...spend £1xxx on Mboard,cpu,ram,gpu+monitor etc or half/same ammount on Gpu& 1000hz monitor....if ALL the HARDCORE simulations can be done on a "cornered" "forced" to buy Nvidia...patent pending NON FOR U ATI OTHER TUCKERS.

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  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Dictator93 wrote: »
    james888 wrote: »
    I was under the impression that physx actually wasn't used. Maybe I am wrong.
    To answer whether you should upgrade your cpu/motherboard/ram or your gpu we need to know your entire setup.
    The PhysX SDK is used by the game as its physx library. This runs on the CPU.

    Recently they added an option for Nvidia users to accelerate this on the GPU with an option.

    BUT! If you check to see if the game is using the GPU for any PhysX calculations NVCP reports that NS2 is still using the CPU. Either NS2s GPU physX option is borked... or NVCP is measuring incorrectly.

    This was my understanding, too. I noted in the NS2WC there was a video with @Hugh specifically mentioning 'turning physx on if you have an nvidia card' so I was wondering if this has been fixed in one of the more recent patches? @Ironhorse do you know the status of this?
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  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    The option works just fine for me.
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  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    The option works just fine for me.
    Oh it works. You can click it. The game does not crash. The console says "Gpu-Dispatcher dispatched." But does the Nvidia Driver record that it is working? No.

    Makes you wonder how and if it is working is all.
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  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    @roobubba
    My physx visual indicator isnt working in the latest whql for me, and neither is MSI afterburner's OSD, and r_stats isn't yeilding anything helpful.. so i have no way for sure to determine just yet, myself. Not sure how samus is testing.
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  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    N@uralBornNoobist wrote: »
    Last selfish point, I kinda am an ati fanboy...however all this aside im using an nvidia 550ti which can utilize physx. Now, from an upgrade standpoint..dilema standpoint...

    is better to go with a better nvidia physx capable gpu? or a new motherboard, cpu, ram bam ty you mam setup?

    ive noticed "significant" solid gameplay performance from enabling physx.

    hopefully this makes sense...after reading back my queries i sometimes cant understand what ive put myself ^^,

    Can you elaborate on the "significant" do you mean more fps? I have an old CPU (E8400 @3GZ), I play with all eye candy off, so would love to take some load off my poor aging cpu and push some of that load on my gpu (nvidia GTX560).
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2014
    N@uralBornNoobist wrote: »
    q6600 2.4 @3.1 "wont go higher on this board" 8g ddr3 Nvidia 550Ti 1g ddr5 "using Physx-Tick" 1030 core 4760 mem. Thinking, this might help a few people decide on full/partial upgrades.
    Basically...hyperthetical dilema is...spend £1xxx on Mboard,cpu,ram,gpu+monitor etc or half/same ammount on Gpu& 1000hz monitor....if ALL the HARDCORE simulations can be done on a "cornered" "forced" to buy Nvidia...patent pending NON FOR U ATI OTHER TUCKERS.
    Your system is pretty balanced. I would guess a nice 3ghz sandy bridge i3 or better would be a nice upgrade. Maybe even an i5-2400 if you can afford it. At that point I think you would become gpu limited, which in this game I would rather be than cpu.

    To really see what is limiting you, instead of my assumptions, you could use the r_stats command. When you start a game, open console with the tilda key ~ and type "r_stats" without quotes. Which ever one is not 0 the most is the one holding you back.
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