Close spawns

philogl

This hasn't been brought up for a while, but it is widely acknowledged that close spawns is not balanced and is not fun to play for either team in public games. Competitive matches have forced cross-spawns for so long that I guess people stopped complaining about it. It seems like such an easy thing to fix that would drastically affect the way UWE measures their balance statistics. Is there any reason this couldn't be quickly introduced for the official maps?

Jekt

www.NaturalSelection2.com wrote:

Random start locations mean you must scout your enemy and before committing to a build. Every game is different.

The thrill of not knowing where the other team has spawned for the first 5 seconds of a round far outweighs any balance implications.

Since sarcasm is lost on people on these forums, I agree with the OP. I would say the majority of experienced players prefer a cross spawn game.

philogl

Well I guess that's OK then. I got what I paid for.

Edit: Wait, is that a direct quote from the website? Bad English and all? May as well remove that while they are at it, kill 2 birds with 1 stone

elodea

philogl wrote: »

Is there any reason this couldn't be quickly introduced for the official maps?

Dear Philogl,
Yes there is a reason. Not enough community momentum, interest, or awareness to spark action counter to the developers interests.

Just another ns2 mechanic that you shouldn't ever expect to change because it's bypassed where it matters, so there's never any spotlighting effect.

philogl

Oh OK. I'm genuinely interested in the disagree @MuckyMcFly . I honestly thought this would be one of the few things everyone agreed on. Could you please elaborate because I cannot think of a single good thing about close spawns.

Mouse

I don't mind it too much in pub games. It adds some variety and I don't feel that its unbalanced per se, it just requires different play.
Definitely don't want to see it in competitive games.

MuckyMcFly

Yeah sorry was going to reply but got distracted.

I enjoy that intense area of action when there are close spawns, makes it exciting and opens up new tactics for taking ground elsewhere. Had some zero upgrade arc rush games that failed and the claw back was brilliant. How do you feel about fixed marine starts like the ever so moaned about NS2_Veil when aliens start in Sub?

Ive not played competitive so can't comment on that, but anything that mixes up the dynamic I enjoy. I'd love to see eclipse with mixed spawns...*insert evil laugh.

[AwE]Sentinel

I think everything that leads to even more repetitive rounds is bad. And in balanced public close spawn rounds I normaly see this: both teams kick each other in the nuts at the nearest RT until they decide it is a waste of time and they start fighting over the rest of the map. Then things go wrong and someone remembers that you could rush the enemy base around the corner again If you don't forget about that threat, you are fine and if you remember faster to attack the close spawn then you have an opportunity.
Close spawns lead only to frustrating rounds if one side (most likely the one with ranged weapons) aims that good that the aliens have no chance. But I don't see that happen very often. And if it happens people force teams and settle things. There is no reason IMO to force cross-spawns for everyone. There are also mods that enables you to enable cross-spawns on your server. Where is the problem?

Mestaritonttu

I don't really care, the only thing I've seen come from cross-spawns only (HBZ servers in EU have this) is that it's easier to expand in start as khammander, because you know you can cyst to the nearest harvesters and not have either swarmed by marines 2 sec later.

Other than that, I've never felt much desire for x-spawns. Or the lack of them. *shrugs*

Omega_K2

To be fair the only map I'd adjust is docking; removing alien spawn in locker if marines spawn in cafe.

Also adjustment the spawn in biodome, it feels like aliens spawn at a 80% rate in platform.

Zainy

Close spawns aren't as imbalanced as people say, and it actually increases the game's intensity.

I find them extremely fun, in fact I think they should removed locked spawns completely and make start spawns utterly random.

Keep comp balance in comp games only, if you only want to play 3-4 league approved maps with crosspawns there are servers that do this, please don't make the game less interesting for everyone else.

Roobubba

Every pub game I'm had with close spawns has been a total stomp one way or the other. Usually 2 good marines hold down the harvester position on the opposite side of alien spawn from where marines started, and it's up to the rest of the pub marines to work out whether they want to win the game by holding the other side of alien spawn on marine spawn side, or lose by milling off in random directions because they have no clue how this game works.

I could quite happily lose close spawns, specifically on summit and biodome (despite its size, it's very easy to get to agri or filtration). It's still a problem, but not quite so severe on descent.

The 'working out which start they have' thing still applies on tram, jambi, veil, eclipse... and that's fine. But data core + sub/atrium is just a horrible horrible game in the making, likewise with hydroponics or platform starts on biodome.

bonage

I agree with roo, definately summit and biodome that are the biggest offenders of horrible close spawn games. I have seen plenty of pub players complain about how unfair and unfun close spawn games are - so the notion that its limited to comp players is silly.

I would rather people have less variety of spawns on 2 maps (biodome summit) than playing games which may ultimately turn them off the game completely. Player retention trumps very small gameplay elements that are only fun for a minority.

nezz

+1 to agree, close spawns on any map is retarded. Even worse if there are 1-2 competent marines.

joshhh

In all honestly, I don't really care about close spawns in pubs since large player count servers are imbalanced as hell anyway. I do see the upside of enforcing cross spawns in pubs though. We could obtain more accurate data on alien/marine W/L ratios. Maybe I am biased.

*shrug*

NeXuS

Docking isn't the only one. Take Summit as an example. If Marines spawn Flight and Aliens spawn Sub, Comp Lab and Maintenance Access have long hallways that make it too easy for Marines to pick off skulks. Leading to as OP said, a stomp fest. Pretty sure Joshhhy and I played a game yesterday on Summit where we held just outside Sub and locked them out from the entire left side all game and led to the Alien team F4ing.

Brad2810

also if you have a team of rookies on a close spawn, good luck trying to get them to go somewhere other than suicideing into the alien hive over and over

Kouji_San

Brad2810 wrote: »

also if you have a team of rookies on a close spawn, good luck trying to get them to go somewhere other than suicideing into the alien hive over and over

Reminds me of a clog wall outside main base with hydra's, 2 Georges and crag+shift central. It's like a shiny bright light, I hear shooty stuff there, must go and also shoot stuff there, oh wait I died :P

Cee Colon Slash

Spoiler: as marines, dropping a medpack on a hive location will reveal whether or not there's a hive there.