Concede
Chagui
Join Date: 2008-03-01 Member: 63773Members
Join Date: 2008-03-01 Member: 63773Members
This is getting ridiculous.
I CAN NEVER PLAY A FULL GAME!!
For me, it takes the magic of this game from happening!
This vote should be used exclusively when there is no other option.
I CAN NEVER PLAY A FULL GAME!!
For me, it takes the magic of this game from happening!
This vote should be used exclusively when there is no other option.
Comments
Being more serious, there is an obvious need for concede, but there is a lack of concerted effort from pub teams to explore all options before resorting to concede. This stems from a lack of team play in pubs, and a general lack of experience - or lack of willingness to listen to teammates who do have experience.
In competitive games, you have a good idea of how capable your opponent is of finishing the game. In pubs, there are so many more mistakes, and pub teams are not as good at finishing games.
For this reason, it's worth trying one or two last-ditch attempts to sneak the win by rushes, for example. However, the real challenges are a) persuading everyone to take part in the same effort and b) persuading everyone to give up if those efforts are unsuccessful.
I understand your frustration leading to this thread. I think the answer lies in education (by example), rather than changing a much needed mechanic.
1 epic comeback > 100 hours of time saved by conceding
Games that should have ended by concede (when even I thought so, and I'm not a fan of concede) and they didn't and we won eventually are those epic games that I play for. The most drama is in comeback.
And I find last stand to be fun as well.
The example that I always fall back on when this thread inevitably comes back every month is chess. Probably 0.1% of all chess matches between experienced players are played to a checkmate, because it simply isn't necessary. Once it becomes clear to both sides who is almost assured to win, it's time for the game to end.
Also, the whole idea of getting rid of concede goes against the entire idea of democracy... If the majority of your team wants to concede, it's not fair of you to force them all to keep playing just to fulfill your own selfish desires.
There are times were concede may be needed.
I wish there is a badge that simbolizes people that love playing a game to its full extent (concede haters). This way i would stay in servers with many of these people.
Often when the other team has enough momentum, the only option is to attempt to pull off some high-risk strategy like a rush. However, this requires coordination and thus is extremely rare for your average losing team in a pub to pull off. From my own personal experience, 99% of the time if you try and do a last resort push, less than half of the team responds.
For this reason I will generally concede before even suggesting a rush - but would much rather try and win the game. It also allows the other team to strike the winning blow if they counter rush your rush - which is a lot less tedious a way to gain a victory than breaking a turtle in a pub, and a lot more rewarding than winning via surrender.
You cannot change the fact that players don't like to lose, it's only human and further more have the agonizing treatment of being eaten by a sarlacc pit; slowly being digested over 1000 years.
Other games do have systems in place to encourage playing, and/or frown upon abandonment. League of Legends and Guns of Icarus have such a thing like:
"Thumbs up-ing" your teammates at the end of a round and voting for end-of-round team MVP's for those people to show who stick it out or those who really put in the effort, and to have something to show for this (a "Team Player" score on Hive/Main Menu/In-Game Scores?)
The other hand could be the negative side of things... if people leave/disconnect but don't rejoin within 5 minutes, they get a Deserter Status and can't join another game for a few minutes (Like LoL, but I don't think this would work for NS2).
It would take a bit of re-working, but I think the Positive reinforcement choice would both encourage people to fight to their fullest and stick around. It would be a cosmetic symbol that shows THIS GUY can be counted on.
Perhaps this should be brought to the Dev's attention, it could be worth looking into
Perhaps if someone reaches a high "Team work" score they can receive bronze/silver/gold versions of a Teamwork Badge?
Let's face it, we all know we love Badges, I binged on Commanding until I got my badge, at least we can now pick out who are best suited to commanding, why not take it further.
Since there was never a "achievement" system set in NS2, perhaps this could encourage people to play more cooperatively to achieve victory?
Marines concede:
Marines no longer spawn. A phasegate appears in a random location on the map. If the remaining marines make it to the phasegate in 1 minute, the game ends with a less glorious alien victory.*
Aliens concede:
Aliens no longer spawn. A gorge tunnel appears at a random location on the map, blah blah blah.
(*maybe something as simple as a text announcing "xxxxxxx has escaped the Kharaa threat!" would suffice for a nice mental treat in this mechanic.)
Point of all the above would be to give the losing team something fun to do while the winning team would get 1 minute to finish the game in a more satisfying fashion.
Ya, I'm happy with this one. Off to wait for the next concede thread. :P
And by the way, the things that will really improve concede is all of your base go boom when vote is successful. Just this and I am happy. Two birds with one stone: game ends under normal winning conditions (all base structures down), and other team gets at least some show as a reward.
Ah, and also, people ragequitting make 'those' matches drag for even longer, since you can't spawn to finish them off. What if auto-balance that prevents you from spawn would be disabled after some time into the game? Say, x1.5 concede time. It's not like anyone is going to switch teams after playing for other team for 15 minutes and securing victory. It's huge problem, when team is not coordinated enough even to concede, sane people start quitting, preventing players on other side from spawning and this makes game that should have ended even longer.
Suggestion: Add a "soft" concede that changes the objective; the conceding team can now force a draw (but no longer win). This can be portrayed by the conceding team having to achieve some objective before a timer reaches zero. For instance reach map position X or Y with at least half the team within 1 minute. The map positions are predefined and can be a dropship, an elevator, tram station, gates, auto-placed Gorge tunnel entrance etc and the position is picked somewhat randomly, perhaps based on the teams map presence. Ideally, the result would be that the conceding team indeed loses 9 times out of 10, but there's still that 10th time to keep things interesting - and whatever happens the game is over a minute after the concede vote ends.
PS: 150 builds and years of Beta testing went into arriving at the need for votes in the game. The concede vote vastly reduces people quitting/f4ing and also leads to more consistent time 'in game' by players, as opposed to extreme server skipping and people only playing for one game. Concede lets us lose and still have enough 'game energy' to play another round.
Perhaps have the Concede vote operate the same way as the other votes, where your teammates simply are prompted to press F1 if they wish to surrender, or F2 continue playing instead of them having to find it buried in the "X" menu.
#makeWinOrLoseModOfficial
I wish I could concede at the start of the game, not going to waste time in NS2 at all when this shit game is already over. Play any amount of games in NS2 is a waste of time and they add up. Could have spent that precious time playing games that are actually worth playing (and don't require 4ghz CPUs to get 60 FPS).
Please don't troll.
Some polish issues (mostly trolling):
Smaller teams have a harder time pulling off their victory.
Being surrendered to is harder on marines then aliens.
Aliens have no stress over time to win at one minute (DPS difference and travel time).
Aliens have no worry about being caught without ammo (minor).
Winning team players can troll their team by killing aliens (on purpose or otherwise).
Still, it would be an improvement as is.
Some features:
Surrendering team cant fight back (till chair/hive is dead, and then all heck breaks loose).
Time to kill the tech point is reduced per surrendered enemy dispatched. Creates a mini-game where the surrendering team tries to throw their lives in between the other team('s bullets or bites) and the tech point.
One minute for the winning team to get their elusive satisfaction.
Can't concede if you have 2 or more tech points or control 3 or more res towers.
I don't get why people are so allergic to losing. If you can't have fun while not stomping on your opponent, go play with bots or something. It's like most people gauge their odds of winning, and if it drops below maybe one in three or so, they vote concede and just loaf around and don't try to help their team. At least F4 took you out of the game, so most people didn't actually F4 unless the game really was over. Concede is not reserved for spawn camps and other circumstances where it might be warranted; it is used early and often.
Perhaps a quarter of the games where my team was close to conceding (one or two votes from it) we won. Why people really were voting concede was "the opposite team has more icons" or some frivolous bullshit. Not infrequently the game gets into a tug-of-war type stalemate, and the team that wins is chosen by random as the team with fewer people willing to concede.
Edit: @Soylent_green Bad idea to put that kind of restriction with tech points. A lot of games I've seen drag on too long when aliens were stuck on 2 hive, unable to expand while marines slowly strangled them. The current system is fine, most games that have a surrender option will always have games where the surrender was premature.
A, the horrible lag you get,
B, the strain on the server due to the amount of objects in the game. (espcially when marines are turtling
C, The fact that other people don't wanna play anymore
D, The neverending story of lvl 3 marines with sg's jp's and gl's where they just keep spamming their shit.
If the marines refuse to surrender in that occasion, I even turn on friendlyfire so they get raped by their own nades