Concede? What's that? Better call a reset vote!

BeigeAlert

FFS people, that's what CONCEDE is for. STOP calling RESET votes!!!!

Suggestion: Reset votes can only be performed in the first 3 minutes of the game. The only time I've ever seen valid reset votes called is for troll comms, mass afk-ing, and other exceptional problems at game start... AT GAME START. I have yet to think of one reason reset should ever be used after ~3 minutes of game time.

Blarney_Stone

Just vote no. Reset votes fill a valuable purpose and there's no need to limit their effectiveness

Roobubba

reset votes on pubs should be ignored if the teams are uneven. so many times I've seen half a team rage quit near the beginning because they lost their first engagement only for some wise crack to insist we need a reset. so it can start 8v4? Really?

mind you, yesterday an alien team lost a gorge tunnel in nano along with 2 gorges and a crag in the first Marine push to nano, then demanded a reset or they would all f4. While I am a big fan of the concede function, I find myself deeply offended that a team should a) not even try to recover from the setback and b) hold the other team to ransom in this way. "accept reset or we all F4" pppf. Either f4 silently and graciously because you lost, or ask politely for a reset...

xen32

Reset might come in handy at any stage, but calling it as alternative to concede is stupid, I agree. Can't see how it can be fixed.

UncleCrunch

Roobubba wrote: »

reset votes on pubs should be ignored if the teams are uneven. so many times I've seen half a team rage quit near the beginning because they lost their first engagement only for some wise crack to insist we need a reset. so it can start 8v4? Really?

mind you, yesterday an alien team lost a gorge tunnel in nano along with 2 gorges and a crag in the first Marine push to nano, then demanded a reset or they would all f4. While I am a big fan of the concede function, I find myself deeply offended that a team should a) not even try to recover from the setback and b) hold the other team to ransom in this way. "accept reset or we all F4" pppf. Either f4 silently and graciously because you lost, or ask politely for a reset...

Simply because Nano is death certificate on this map. Since NS1; Veil has been modified over and over and no one can say that Nano isn't crucial. Marines can wait a little and siege it. At that point the game turns upside down for aliens. I've seen only one time an alien team get back Nano and keep it for good.

You'll see more 'reset/concede' vote on 4TP maps than any other. NS1 (4TPs) maps just aren't good for NS2 (period).

The vote stuff is also due to the egg respawn system. You loose something important (with more than 6 players) it just cripples timings. The Khammander has to choose between eggs and other stuff knowing that in either cases he looses territory or time. Not a good bargain.

3 Marines can guard and build an entire base in Nano by the time you can assemble a 3 skulk attack with normal respawn time/egg availability on a >14 players server.

Especially as public servers usually support >14 players. 16, 18, 24, even 40... while UWE suggets to play 6vs6 the UWE servers are all above 14...

On >16 players servers it is usually death certificate for alien when they loose the first engagements. The first 2 harvesters fall soon after that. Seconds away you have marines at hive doors. In less than 3 minutes the game end is known with 100% accuracy. Add to that; it is usually stacked and other pestilences. Why bother ?

Alien win on >14 players is : they hold their grounds and maybe they got a chance. Marine win is far different. Ninja PG, instant building / recycling, ranged weapons (3 guys shooting at one skulk, etc..).

Respawn for alien is also cranky. You spawn without upgrades (when available). You have to choose between losing time upgrading and having better chances to do something. Or closing the "heat" without upgrade to get there faster but weak. We should be able to choose upgrade before spawning and respawn upgraded. Useful on Egg lock situations which happen more when servers can host more players.

Same for marine. On >8 player in the team, 2 IPs becomes the norm.

As long as balance is static it'll be the case.

MrFangs

BeigeAlert wrote: »

I have yet to think of one reason reset should ever be used after ~3 minutes of game time.

For example when you have nicely balanced teams, and have a good game going... then the Marine comm jumps out for a second, a troll comm jumps in, recycles and wastes all TRes. In that case, starting over with the same teams is a nice option.

I agree that late-game reset votes are silly, but a time limit is the wrong way to fix it. In my experience, these votes rarely pass anyway, so I don't really think it's a problem.

coolitic

Yeah reset votes should not be alternative to concede. IT'S THERE FOR A REASON.

BeigeAlert

MrFangs wrote: »

BeigeAlert wrote: »

I have yet to think of one reason reset should ever be used after ~3 minutes of game time.

For example when you have nicely balanced teams, and have a good game going... then the Marine comm jumps out for a second, a troll comm jumps in, recycles and wastes all TRes. In that case, starting over with the same teams is a nice option.

I agree that late-game reset votes are silly, but a time limit is the wrong way to fix it. In my experience, these votes rarely pass anyway, so I don't really think it's a problem.

That's a good reason I suppose.

I'm also completely opposed to the silly f4ing system that too many people do. Rather than conceding as a team, you have two jerks who will just f4, sealing the rest of the team's fate. No comeback can be made when you're down by two people! If the battle looks hopeless, you should either A) Concede, or leave the server entirely because you can't seem to function as part of a team, even when losing.

Bringing me to my next point...

Concede shouldn't be limited to only after 10 minutes, it should always be available. Now before you all scream the it will be abused, I should point out that the Tactical Gamer servers have no limit on how early you can concede, and I have yet to see it used irresponsibly (ie. conceding <10 seconds in to protest team balance).

Omega_K2

Quite frankly I had to disable the reset votes because people started to abuse them heavily a while, even when they don't succed having them spammed by some people who can't loose is rather annoying; also inbetween other votes people press F1 blindly (actually, I always considered the F1/F2 system to be rather stupid, no matter which game people tend to press just one thing without looking; isn't as bad as in source at the very least).
Same with people trying to reset when teams are uneven, I mean seriously, it's not like it's gonna make teams any better.
I think it's much better to have an admin handle resetting, cases where it's actually needed are rare. And you'd want to have troll coms banned anyway

Much like the kickvotes, seen too many people trying to abuse them as well (let's kick the other teams com/best player), and they don't exactly get rid of abuseive players, as they can just rejoin.

BeigeAlert wrote: »

Concede shouldn't be limited to only after 10 minutes, it should always be available. Now before you all scream the it will be abused, I should point out that the Tactical Gamer servers have no limit on how early you can concede, and I have yet to see it used irresponsibly (ie. conceding <10 seconds in to protest team balance).

I've set it to 3 mins which seems to work fine too.

lwf

How about a "Reset with previous teams" vote, only accessible while the game has not started (or within the first minute, in case two coms started prematurely)? It may not stop the reset spam, but it would let you end the game in a normal way and then start a new with the same teams, if that's what you want.