Are two upgrade chambers enough? [tactic]
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Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
I was wondering that for a while now. I see more and more comms that refuse to drop a 3rd upgrade chamber (UC) until they run out of stuff they can place with two hives. If I ask why, they say it costs a lot of money that is used better on other stuff and 2/3 UCs are enough of a boost. The 3rd UC is almost meaningless.
Is that right? I thought every UC gives about 33% of the full potencial. Is that still the case, cause if it is still like this I would really feel cheated if I have to upgrade a fade with 2 and 2 UCs and get 66% less boost for the same pres. The 3rd UC is expensive, but is the res really better invested in other places? I mean those comms even go shade first and drop only two UCs...that makes no sense in my book.
What do you think, enlight me! Is that a valid tactic and what would you use the saved res on, a fast 2nd hive? o.O
Is that right? I thought every UC gives about 33% of the full potencial. Is that still the case, cause if it is still like this I would really feel cheated if I have to upgrade a fade with 2 and 2 UCs and get 66% less boost for the same pres. The 3rd UC is expensive, but is the res really better invested in other places? I mean those comms even go shade first and drop only two UCs...that makes no sense in my book.
What do you think, enlight me! Is that a valid tactic and what would you use the saved res on, a fast 2nd hive? o.O
Comments
In case of shade first, I might leave 1 veil for some time, because one veil still grants you special powers. But then, when resflow is good, always upgrade to full, because silence is boss.
In all the other cases, it always three chambers as soon as we have res (unless we agreed to stick to some special tactics, that doesn't involves upgrades at all in favor of other fun things).
2 hives usually give most of the important upgrades, but it's true that sometimes comms refuse to get 3rd tp when other things are not as important.
and it turns out upgrade chamber means shells, veils, and spurs. Disregard this.
Why the hell are you here if you dont even play the sodding game
By upgrade chambers he means shells, veils and spurs.
LOL, while I lubb coolitic for his thick skin, persistence, and sometimes entertaining posts, I do think sometimes he spends more time on the forums than in game. Hehehe
1st
If one goes shift first its because you view shift to be the best hive (perhaps only for this round) as such then youv established that celerity>cara and as each shell is 33% of max improvement then choosing anything over 33% more celerity is sub optimal.
2nd
Player Res! While 20 t-res is 20 t-res it is not the case for players as a skulk who cares... but when you look at the opposite side of the spectrum (onos) it becomes clear. If you go onos odds are your doing it asap to increase effectiveness, having 3spurs vs 2 spurs and 1 shell saves you 8 res and still gives you access to all upgrades (assuming you have 8 res for shell at that time)
3rd
Lack of linearity... While each upgrade does count for 33% of total potential max this does not mean that they are equal. I would contend that as you reach the higher end of the spectrum you begin to push opponent limits. Speed everyone has a max tracking speed as you approach it its going to get significantly harder to track. Health you never know when its their last bullet if your investing in being a spunge you should maximize that.
conclusion... 2 upgrades->hive is fine... but the 3rd upgrade should be the same as the first 2, if your wishing you had cara at this point maybe you chose the wrong hive...
****Exception (because there always is one) **** Are you about to lose your new hive? well maybe you should grab an upgrade from it now before it dies...
But For Shells and Spurs, pretty much always go 3
If you absolutely need (as in you will lose without it) that res on something like biomass/hive/gorge upgrade.
A example would be the marines have too many turrets or phasegates, and you need to get Bile Bomb up to deal with that, that last spur's priority would drop for me too.
right away: why not 1 spur? because there is overhead (selection/evolution time and pres cost).
so yea, ofc it makes sense to have 3 spurs in the end and while i agree that the 3rd should be done before placing any shells or veils (maybe except a single veil for camo), i don't think the 3rd spur is as important as some people claim it to be: for skulk celerity or leap adrenaline it is nice, yes.
but for higher lifeforms which you'll want to keep alive (ignoring onos, because by the time those are up, 3rd spur should be as well), people tend to pick adrenaline. and for adrenaline, the benefit seems a bit diminishing for lerk, gorge and fade because there is only so much time they'll remain in an engagement.
that said, i can relate if people disagree with my view here; i merely want to point out that it's not a no-go and depends on the given circumstances: while saving up 60 tres for a single purpose, chances are that other needs emerge during that time.
I dunno I find it to be the exact opposite for me..
1 Veil does pretty much nothing... You are spotted super easily while cloaked, and you still make more than enough noise while running. 3 Veils asap is incredibly important primarily because it renders Skulks completely silent. (by far the most useful upgrade in the game imo) Plus the range of aura on 1 or 2 veils is ridiculously small.
For Spurs and Shells you get more of a boost with just one, and it seems the difference between 2 and 3 is very minimal.
Oh, well then I retract my post.
I would be spending more time in-game but dell is being cumbersome with getting me my replacement gpu, and we all know NS2 can't be played on igp (unless it's at 360x360)
Depends on igp. I played on intel 4600 with a 4770k and it was actually very playable. 1080p.
If you get ALL veils early, the silent skulks can just run around the map and always get the drop on marines, even if not ambushing (aliens can hear marines running, marines cant hear skulks)
Moving into mid/late, game aura lets higher lifeforms maximize their efficiency by picking off the near dead marines and avoiding traps like a marine standing around a corner with a shotgun.
Also, Halicinations are ridiculous.
But yeah, in order to actualy use Shade well, you need all three veils ASAP. Shell/Spur can be delayed somewhat since they still give decent buffs, but should still be a high-ish priority.
I've seen a lot more shade first since the hallucination update
In response to OP - @maD_maX_ speak the truth.
2 Ups should be a temporary thing, its completely acceptable to delay the 3rd in order to get biomass / a crag / 2nd hive or something, but you sure as shit are going to need that 3rd one up before you start even thinking about 2nd hive upgrades.
Benefits of up #3 per hive -
Spurs - Increased distance-closing ability for skulks, more bile / heals from gorges, faster distance closing and disengagement for fades (you ARE going celerity fade, right?). 3 spurs is good.
Veils - Usable aura range, oh yeah and your aliens are completely silent. You can engage marines in the most obvious fashion without them having any idea. You can run around the map at full speed nibbling RTs and they wont know where you are until the next one starts flashing red on their HUD. Get 3 veils.
Shell - Remember all those times you left an engagement with fade sporting a whopping 7hp? One less shell and you would be long dead. Get 3 shells.
IMO spurs are the lowest return for #3 but that does not in any way imply you should not make it a priority before your 2nd hive starts chuggin'
The only thing I can understand - if it has to be one UC - is regen 1. One shell early on gives you at least regeneration, but I would naturally prefer three shells or better no shells at all. Cara doesn't help against good players, they still kill you very fast and since they are masters in close combat teeth avoidance, crag hives give me the feeling that they are faster than a skulk in melee. And that is deadly.
And the comms I'm talking about are not delaying it for gorge upgrades etc. They build two spurs and then two shells. Even built a 3rd hive and veils before a 3rd spur was even in discussion. I thought there might be some genious comp level time and res efficient tactic behind it that I don't see. But it seems to be the assumption that a 3rd UC is not necessary and on top of that expansive.
1 - useless
2 - instant 2 shell is a good opener
3 - good
Spurs:
1 - ehhhh
2 - good
3 - good
Veils:
1 - good (camo)
2 - useless
3 - good (silence)
I'm using 2630qm, so it doesn't work lol
Also, shade starts are my favorites, but there are 2 reasons khamms dont do it:
1) Is a rookie khamm
2) Not all players can effectively use a shade start, and if a good portion of your team can't make enough use of it, there is no point in doing it. (mostly pubs, but sometimes comp players are better with other hives too)