DX11 already does a lot of this itself. But seeing as NS2 uses no DX11 shaders you should only use DX11 if it gives you better FPS or responsiveness due to it being more optimized for multithreading.
I don't really care about increasing my FPS. I just want my FPS to be more reflective of what I'm experiencing. I would say I average anywhere between 50-60 range and it seems like I'm playing at 20 FPS. If that wasn't bad enough, I get micro lag randomly throughout gameplay.
After the last sweep of changes in the past week and a half (mostly just reverting the addition of Asian fonts) the framerate has become so smooth that it's like playing a completely different game. With any luck (and without promising anything!) I think you'll be pleased with 267.
Can't await the smoother gameplay. Do you think skulks will have a difficult time ahead due to better tracking or do the skulks profit enough as well to balance for better shooting?
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Well, we can't really keep frame quality bad just to keep skulks alive ... if it changes balance, tweaking will ensue.
I would presume that with better performance at least lerk play COULD be affected since it relies on its particular movement. This is something I as a lerk player really want to test as it could change the approach how lerk is going to be played in the future.
Look at the world cup when they played over lan which reduced interp time. Marines dominated for both teams for the majority of the games. That is a different kind of lag being removed but its just a taste of how much better marines can aim.
Everyone remember the Build when Descent was released? Skulk animations were fixed/smoothed and marine wins shot up.
Marines that had learned to play with the broken had a much simpler time of hitting things once they were fixed. After a bit though Aliens came back and things balanced out. I imagine something similar to that will happen, if anything.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
As a predominantly Lerk player.. I can say that yes, it is now more difficult to play as a lerk against marines who are average aimers or better.
You really do have to duck and weave more. (Time for carapace to actually scale for the lerk!)
I wouldn't worry about this issue too much though, considering the consistent win rates aliens have enjoyed over the past months.
And as a marine... it really feels like you can take on 2 or 3 skulks at once now - as if your bullets actually work better than before.
There's less of a "floaty" or "trailing" feel to the ebb and flow of combat, and much more of a "connected" feel. It's subtle though.. and I doubt every single player will notice it.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Well, large part of them comes form the skulk landing his killing blow on you on the server, before your meatshot move lands at the server.
Once you are dead, you are not allowed to shoot, so the server just discards it.
Those ... won't change.
But apart from those, I would expect it to become rarer.
My only problem in 267 is realizing that I'm running out of excuses for my sucky aim ... I unloaded a whole clip at a dodging skulk the other day, and all I got was a single little lonesome 'chirp' back from the hitsound feedback.
Well, large part of them comes form the skulk landing his killing blow on you on the server, before your meatshot move lands at the server.
Once you are dead, you are not allowed to shoot, so the server just discards it.
Those ... won't change.
But apart from those, I would expect it to become rarer.
My only problem in 267 is realizing that I'm running out of excuses for my sucky aim ... I unloaded a whole clip at a dodging skulk the other day, and all I got was a single little lonesome 'chirp' back from the hitsound feedback.
Well, large part of them comes form the skulk landing his killing blow on you on the server, before your meatshot move lands at the server.
Once you are dead, you are not allowed to shoot, so the server just discards it.
Those ... won't change.
But apart from those, I would expect it to become rarer.
My only problem in 267 is realizing that I'm running out of excuses for my sucky aim ... I unloaded a whole clip at a dodging skulk the other day, and all I got was a single little lonesome 'chirp' back from the hitsound feedback.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2014
20% more fps @ endgame on a 120 tick server with smooth responsive gameplay tracked by a real skill system.
Wow.
Sad thing is: This had to be implemented much earlier before all the sales.
Now its a bit to late.
I was talking with andi (sewlek) ages ago about implementing new features before optimizing the core of the game.
New features are fine, but in the end people stop playing cause horrible performance not cause missing babblers.
Maybe UWE learned from there mistakes, well at least i hope so.
To be 100% honest with you, this would make all the difference for someone like me. When I played NS2 I wouldn't complain too much about it, but I could say with no hesitation that tons and tons of my shots weren't hitting just because I had problems like input delay. I like to play on my native resolution and unfortunately play max fov as well, my framerate wasn't atrocious but it got quite bad towards later on in the game where it become 'unplayable' in a competitive environment (not unplayable as in literally cannot be played)
Plus there was always a feeling like I didn't have my 'real' framerate, and that wasn't even end-game that was just as soon as I started playing. I got use to it and adapted though :P
@depara, where did you hear anything about 120 tick? I think that's a bit of an excessive leap for the server.... unless it performs under that condition - then I'd assume it'd be possible under a 6v6 on the nsl maps to keep that framerate throughout
The rates are unlocked in 267, so a 500 tick server would be posssible in theory (im sure we see some funny new servertitles soon: "42 slots, NO LAGG!! 500 ticks")
But im optimistic to have higher server and update rates on my server without any problems after a bit testing.
I've been a hobby programmer for a long time, spending many hours meditating over problems and developing algorithms. I was never good at it, and often required forum help. People who helped me were basically math geniuses, who I used to think of as boring people with no interest in spirituality, and bad social skills. Such people are my heroes when it comes to coding, and also as a gamer.
I'm not that stereotypical btw, I just enjoy the discussions.
The rates are unlocked in 267, so a 500 tick server would be posssible in theory (im sure we see some funny new servertitles soon: "42 slots, NO LAGG!! 500 ticks")
But im optimistic to have higher server and update rates on my server without any problems after a bit testing.
Just to help the general confusion a little, a 500 tickrate server would make absolutely no sense. anything above 30 reall makes not much sense (at least not above 60, but 30 is totally fine).
The tickrate in ns2 is the rate at which AI units, like drifters, whips etc are updated. Yes, you will have slightly more reactive whips, but thats not what you are looking for. What you are looking for are faster update rates, on the one hand the update rate at which the client sends his updates (the current mr (movement rate) command) and on the other hand how often the server sends updates to a client (which is a fixed 20 updates per second right now). This will have a much bigger effect. Of course it will increase the serverload pretty much linearly (if you double those rates, you double the cpu used), so until further optimizations are done, this will only be an option for comp play (small playercount) or very costly servers. But unlocking is the first step before optimization.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited July 2014
Woah, a Tweadle post.
My concern for this patch isn't how awesome the configurable update rate and move rate can be, but what servers will actually be capable of a sizable increase without crippling performance problems. Multiplay servers already struggle without any changes. Aus net won't permit servers put up by community members with meaty enough machines, I want to try this!
My concern for this patch isn't how awesome the configurable update rate and move rate can be, but what servers will actually be capable of a sizable increase without crippling performance problems. Multiplay servers already struggle without any changes. Aus net won't permit servers put up by community members with meaty enough machines, I want to try this!
a while back dragon was able to get a moverate of 50 i think, and it didn't cripple his server in 6v6 setting
Comments
And what about D3D11?
DX11 already does a lot of this itself. But seeing as NS2 uses no DX11 shaders you should only use DX11 if it gives you better FPS or responsiveness due to it being more optimized for multithreading.
Looks like the patch will launch while I am on vacation. :P
Everyone have a good time enjoying its wonders!
After the last sweep of changes in the past week and a half (mostly just reverting the addition of Asian fonts) the framerate has become so smooth that it's like playing a completely different game. With any luck (and without promising anything!) I think you'll be pleased with 267.
Para is getting nervous and might collapse under the pressure! Have mercy and give him his patch please!
....
So skulks finally get shotguns?
I would presume that with better performance at least lerk play COULD be affected since it relies on its particular movement. This is something I as a lerk player really want to test as it could change the approach how lerk is going to be played in the future.
Look at the world cup when they played over lan which reduced interp time. Marines dominated for both teams for the majority of the games. That is a different kind of lag being removed but its just a taste of how much better marines can aim.
Marines that had learned to play with the broken had a much simpler time of hitting things once they were fixed. After a bit though Aliens came back and things balanced out. I imagine something similar to that will happen, if anything.
You really do have to duck and weave more. (Time for carapace to actually scale for the lerk!)
I wouldn't worry about this issue too much though, considering the consistent win rates aliens have enjoyed over the past months.
And as a marine... it really feels like you can take on 2 or 3 skulks at once now - as if your bullets actually work better than before.
There's less of a "floaty" or "trailing" feel to the ebb and flow of combat, and much more of a "connected" feel. It's subtle though.. and I doubt every single player will notice it.
Once you are dead, you are not allowed to shoot, so the server just discards it.
Those ... won't change.
But apart from those, I would expect it to become rarer.
My only problem in 267 is realizing that I'm running out of excuses for my sucky aim ... I unloaded a whole clip at a dodging skulk the other day, and all I got was a single little lonesome 'chirp' back from the hitsound feedback.
49 misses, 1 hit.
I died. Of course and of shame... :-/
--> pistol time.
Wow.
Sad thing is: This had to be implemented much earlier before all the sales.
Now its a bit to late.
I was talking with andi (sewlek) ages ago about implementing new features before optimizing the core of the game.
New features are fine, but in the end people stop playing cause horrible performance not cause missing babblers.
Maybe UWE learned from there mistakes, well at least i hope so.
To be 100% honest with you, this would make all the difference for someone like me. When I played NS2 I wouldn't complain too much about it, but I could say with no hesitation that tons and tons of my shots weren't hitting just because I had problems like input delay. I like to play on my native resolution and unfortunately play max fov as well, my framerate wasn't atrocious but it got quite bad towards later on in the game where it become 'unplayable' in a competitive environment (not unplayable as in literally cannot be played)
Plus there was always a feeling like I didn't have my 'real' framerate, and that wasn't even end-game that was just as soon as I started playing. I got use to it and adapted though :P
@depara, where did you hear anything about 120 tick? I think that's a bit of an excessive leap for the server.... unless it performs under that condition - then I'd assume it'd be possible under a 6v6 on the nsl maps to keep that framerate throughout
The rates are unlocked in 267, so a 500 tick server would be posssible in theory (im sure we see some funny new servertitles soon: "42 slots, NO LAGG!! 500 ticks")
But im optimistic to have higher server and update rates on my server without any problems after a bit testing.
I've been a hobby programmer for a long time, spending many hours meditating over problems and developing algorithms. I was never good at it, and often required forum help. People who helped me were basically math geniuses, who I used to think of as boring people with no interest in spirituality, and bad social skills. Such people are my heroes when it comes to coding, and also as a gamer.
I'm not that stereotypical btw, I just enjoy the discussions.
Just to help the general confusion a little, a 500 tickrate server would make absolutely no sense. anything above 30 reall makes not much sense (at least not above 60, but 30 is totally fine).
The tickrate in ns2 is the rate at which AI units, like drifters, whips etc are updated. Yes, you will have slightly more reactive whips, but thats not what you are looking for. What you are looking for are faster update rates, on the one hand the update rate at which the client sends his updates (the current mr (movement rate) command) and on the other hand how often the server sends updates to a client (which is a fixed 20 updates per second right now). This will have a much bigger effect. Of course it will increase the serverload pretty much linearly (if you double those rates, you double the cpu used), so until further optimizations are done, this will only be an option for comp play (small playercount) or very costly servers. But unlocking is the first step before optimization.
My concern for this patch isn't how awesome the configurable update rate and move rate can be, but what servers will actually be capable of a sizable increase without crippling performance problems. Multiplay servers already struggle without any changes. Aus net won't permit servers put up by community members with meaty enough machines, I want to try this!
a while back dragon was able to get a moverate of 50 i think, and it didn't cripple his server in 6v6 setting