I think making a ladder or even just a climbable box in skylights to access the vent, would fix most peoples frustrations with this particular vent. It's still going to be strong with hydras and clogs while spitting in the vent, but with proper medpack support a single marine should be able to take care of a single gorge.
I think people are underestimating how much of an impact something like this could have on the game. For instance when Aliens start in Sub.
I think making a ladder or even just a climbable box in skylights to access the vent, would fix most peoples frustrations with this particular vent. It's still going to be strong with hydras and clogs while spitting in the vent, but with proper medpack support a single marine should be able to take care of a single gorge.
I think people are underestimating how much of an impact something like this could have on the game. For instance when Aliens start in Sub.
Yea I see what you mean. Then I'd suggest that you make a level drop in the vent, so that a marine cannot travel from skylights to overlook through the vent, but he can still access it and kill off a potential gorge.
I think the problem is not the marine's accessibility but that a gorge can bilebomb the sky RT. Obstruct the vent exit somehow (or move it) and it should be fine.
I love trick jumps - I loved them in cstrike and I love them in ns2. There's something very satisfying about getting in to places that others can't, or take shortcuts others aren't able to, to get that little edge.
And for that reason I love the skylights vent as well. It's actually one of my favourites, because there are many different ways and approaches to get in to it. However, this is a vent that even I have to admit does need to be accessible to new players - as it is undeniably too easy to deny those 2 rts on veil otherwise.
I think making a ladder or even just a climbable box in skylights to access the vent, would fix most peoples frustrations with this particular vent. It's still going to be strong with hydras and clogs while spitting in the vent, but with proper medpack support a single marine should be able to take care of a single gorge.
Agreed that getting into places your not supposed to be is awsome.
As others have said, the main problem with the skylights-overlook vent is that 1 gorge (or skulk) can deny and dsestroy 2 RTs (a full side of the map) with relative impunity.
A ladder in skylights would make the vent almost useless for aliens, a ladder in overlook would allow marines access if they can get around to overlook. Aliens would still have an advantage, but marines could still defend reasonably well.
@F0rdPrefect I prefere maintaining the option to do the tactic, while offering a counter that can be applied without having obscure knowledge about the map.
Because it's not a problem in any kind of competetive setting, for various reasons. That alone should tell you, that it's actually rarely worth the trouble in the first place. As others have pointed out already, it's not actually the fact that you lose an rt that's the problem, it's that it works as a huge distraction for rookies.
I've noticed lately that it's pretty much impossible to evolve in any vent (unless it has a vertical shaft), which is freakin annoying as shit. And yet again, this wasn't happening in pre 267 builds. I really don't see a point in denying aliens to exploit vents. Then why not just remove them entirely while we're at it eh?
Aliens get early access to them and marines by pushing eachother up or by using jetpacks. It's a tactical advantage that doesn't always work, but it's there. So why fuck it up if there is no need to?
I've noticed lately that it's pretty much impossible to evolve in any vent (unless it has a vertical shaft), which is freakin annoying as shit. And yet again, this wasn't happening in pre 267 builds. I really don't see a point in denying aliens to exploit vents. Then why not just remove them entirely while we're at it eh?
Aliens get early access to them and marines by pushing eachother up or by using jetpacks. It's a tactical advantage that doesn't always work, but it's there. So why fuck it up if there is no need to?
You've never been able to evolve in vents unless they had good vertical clearance. It's been like this for a good time (months, perhaps a year), it's not from this patch.
No. You could evolve pretty much anywhere, except in very rare places. Now you can't evolve anywhere except in few places.
I know i could easily evolve in Skylights vent anyhwere. Now you can only at those junctions and shafts. Same for 99% of other vents around Veil. Haven't checked others. And it certainly wasn't months or even years...
I've noticed lately that it's pretty much impossible to evolve in any vent (unless it has a vertical shaft), which is freakin annoying as ****.
Obscure fact of the day: There are a few vent locations where you usually can't evolve, but you can while holding "crouch". Sometimes you can't evolve in a vent because you're actually wall-walking. Press crouch to make sure you're on the floor, then try evolving again. (Proper explanation provided by @Mendasp.)
Even I hate gorges in vents but its part of the game and be countered properly in most cases. There are also not many maps where vent gorges are an issue. Containment for example isn't an issue if you keep your structures out of bile range. On Veil you can boost each other in, use that trick that BeigeAlert showed you (even though its cryptic and hard to find) and on other maps, you're better off ignoring the gorge and poking him every now and then with the marines who spawn if he's near your base and then clear him out later with advanced tech.
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This is not gonna change anyway, it is a part of the game. Adding ladder or everything else helping Marines to jump into the vents more easily is just going to remove the special ability from Aliens to hide & use ventilations whenever they need to ambush or go behind Marines to kill them.
Anyway, if you know the map & are pretty good for platform game, you'll be able to go into these vents by yourself & kill that said gorge. This is not so hard if your Commander is willing to help you with some medpacks to do it, so yes it can take a few minutes but when it's done, in general, the gorge won't do it again (for the same round at least).
And Veil is the only issue in that case. Whether people think this needs to be changed, what's your idea? You have your point but it also needs a solution to counter this or to improve it. Reduce ventilations size to avoid gorge to jump in? Or something else, dunno. This is not a gameplay issue but definitely a map issue and it only occurs for Containement on Refinery 'cause as already said, gorge is able to spit all the room & this is a tech point for Marines too.
The last solution is: find who's this gorge & kick him. (joke) --> although I know some servers & admins that won't hesitate to do this.
what's your idea? You have your point but it also needs a solution to counter this or to improve it.
There are really only 3 vents I feel get abused.
The containment one should exit either somewhere else, use a vent cover like at nano, or just point the exit down instead of out!
Cargo could be fixed with putting some debris in the way, or perhaps some extra barrels so marines can hop onto one of the large shipping containers. It's not as tacky as a ladder but it would give marines access to the gorges without being acrobats.
If the vent at skylights went down and exited near the ground, it would make it just as hard for marines to get in, easier for skulks to use, and about useless for a gorge to hole up in.
So, give mariens even more advantage and nerf aliens completely. When will marines get a nerf on JP GL rushing? You can take down pretty much any hive with 3 people and some support from comm. No one addressing that eh? But somehow, aliens in the vents are a bigger issue. Sometimes i just don't understand players...
Gorges in vent's are not the Issue here, Its how marines Deal with them that is, there is many many ways to get the dam dirty sneaky gorge out, if marines have good RT's they can go for advanced weapons and GL the gorge out, they can research grenades and flush him out, or my own personal Fave, climb into the vent and axe the little shit!
This is not gonna change anyway, it is a part of the game. Adding ladder or everything else helping Marines to jump into the vents more easily is just going to remove the special ability from Aliens to hide & use ventilations whenever they need to ambush or go behind Marines to kill them.
Anyway, if you know the map & are pretty good for platform game, you'll be able to go into these vents by yourself & kill that said gorge.
Make a level drop in the vent, like you have in for example crossroads/maintenance vent. The marine can get in to the vent from crossroads side, but he can't exit it from the maintenance side.
This way, you can deny the gorge from skylights side, without wasting all that travel time running to west junc or overlook - and you don't change the aliens abillity to hide in the vent. As I said earlier, I love trick jumps, but you can not design a map in such a way that a popular and strong tactics only counter, is a trick jump that you:
1) have to have obscure map knowledge to even know about
2) have the skill to perform the trick jump
Because this ^ removes the abillity for a rookie to counter the tactic, and that's not ok when we're talking about the denial of TWO resource towers. Moreover, if the aliens lock down overlook (maybe they started sub), the marines don't have access to overlook - it seems unfair that they'd have to sac the skylights rt on default. I know you can get in from west junc side as well, but you are really vulnerable during that jump.
Keep in mind, nobody is suggesting this is a problem in competetive games, this is only a problem in pubs - so the whole argument about trick jumps doesn't belong here.
The problem with that solution is it makes it easier for skulks to harass the RT, which may not happen in pubs, but the extended travel time to the vent allows for kills before they escape in comp.
I made the jumps in Overlook and West easier, however. I also closed those minivents in East (which I think I had closed before?). And I also made the RT location in Pipeline wider so you can put cysts and drifters in non-exposed positions, also adjusted the initial cysts there according to the change.
The problem with that solution is it makes it easier for skulks to harass the RT, which may not happen in pubs, but the extended travel time to the vent allows for kills before they escape in comp.
I made the jumps in Overlook and West easier, however. I also closed those minivents in East (which I think I had closed before?). And I also made the RT location in Pipeline wider so you can put cysts and drifters in non-exposed positions, also adjusted the initial cysts there according to the change.
What minivents? You mean those that are at the top on the Nanogrid wall? By the way, there's nothing to do about vents in Nano for Marines, I mean, it's kinda easy to jump into these vents from East & West Junction but once you're in, this is just impossible to go out. So yeah, of course, the best solution is just to avoid these vents as Marines & don't be retard enough to jump in.
As Santa said, this is only a public issue, I don't even imagine seeing a gorge in these vents to harass Marines. Except maybe the one in Y Junction just near the node when Marines attempt to build a PG here & even there, it's pretty easy to kill the gorge or anything else.
Is there a perfect idea or solution for this problem? I don't think so anyway, some will be for Aliens advantages and others will be for Marines advantages, and the original idea was to make easier the way to kill gorges in problematic vents for Marines.
The problem with that solution is it makes it easier for skulks to harass the RT, which may not happen in pubs, but the extended travel time to the vent allows for kills before they escape in comp.
I made the jumps in Overlook and West easier, however. I also closed those minivents in East (which I think I had closed before?). And I also made the RT location in Pipeline wider so you can put cysts and drifters in non-exposed positions, also adjusted the initial cysts there according to the change.
That's great. It definetely remedies my second issue. It's probably good enough, but..
I'm not sure what you're saying is true. You don't have to change the entrance to the vent in skylights at all to implement my suggestion. You can just add a sort of "pit" well within the vent - it doesn't need to be at the entrance. Sort of like the reverse of what you did in reactor core vent on summit.
Idk perhaps it's not necessary now that you made it easier to jump in from the other side, I'd just still prefere being able to approach from skylights personally, to allow for saving travel time.
Like seriously, even if you can't make the jump from overlook or W.Junction all it takes it "hey buddy boost me in please" problem solved in 5 seconds. Oh yeah make sure you have armour and the comm's attention spit is a wee bit powerful in vents
Like seriously, even if you can't make the jump from overlook or W.Junction all it takes it "hey buddy boost me in please" problem solved in 5 seconds. Oh yeah make sure you have armour and the comm's attention spit is a wee bit powerful in vents
Pretty easy to do from Overlook yeah, a tiny bit harder from W Junction (personally i'm too bad to jump in there). It also depends if the gorge placed some clogs to block your vision. The best thing is to trap the gorge with one from Overlook & another one from Skylight, it takes time for say, but at least, it's cleaned.
That is a good point. If it was really such a big issue to have access to the skylights side vent, then why are we not seeing more boosts in competetive?
If anyone would like to maintain that it is a big problem in comp, then I think we have to reconsider the level drop / pit suggestion.
That is a good point. If it was really such a big issue to have access to the skylights side vent, then why are we not seeing more boosts in competetive?
I thought it was pretty routine to boost your first man up there at the start while the other builds the RT - which is why I've been getting people doing it more in pubs
That is a good point. If it was really such a big issue to have access to the skylights side vent, then why are we not seeing more boosts in competetive?
If anyone would like to maintain that it is a big problem in comp, then I think we have to reconsider the level drop / pit suggestion.
Can take to long, 2 marines facing the wall trying to jump, 1 mistake, and they could have 4-5 skulks rushing them from sub hive, now if they get there fast, do it on 1st attempt, then it can work out,
Skylights vent has changed a little, as the marine ducking then standing was enough to boost into the vent before, but was seen as quite OP for on rushing skulks that got killed because a marine was in the vent faster than the skulk could get out
Like seriously, even if you can't make the jump from overlook or W.Junction all it takes it "hey buddy boost me in please" problem solved in 5 seconds. Oh yeah make sure you have armour and the comm's attention spit is a wee bit powerful in vents
Super intuitive for people to figure out without being told.
I think that's the primary thing here. To a rookie, this is simply a stupidly annoying "ganky" strategy that costs very little, has low risk, and reasonably high reward. There's no intuitive way to get into some of these vents. It doesn't matter how easy it might be for people like us who know what we're doing. It really doesn't matter if it "forces marines to use teamwork." This strategy simply shouldn't be effective.
It's not what the Gorge's role is, it's not how Gorge is designed to be played. Gorges are a support role that are supposed to be supported by skulks to do the heavy lifting. A lone gorge should be a dead gorge (unless the gorge is really good, but that exception applies to all things NS2). Allowing a lone gorge to single-handedly deny resnodes, tech-points, etc in such a way that the gorge isn't even in real danger simply shouldn't exist.
There are a grand total of two possible fixes:
1. Change the Map so that the Vents in question (Veil's Skylights, Refinery's Containment, Veil's East Junction non-vent) cannot be biled from effectively but still can be used as alien specific transportation. (Like what happened to Veil's Nano and Sub).
or
2. Change the Map so that marines can access the vents in question in a more intuitive fashion.
From the tone of voice here, It sounds like #1 would be far less objectionable.
Like seriously, even if you can't make the jump from overlook or W.Junction all it takes it "hey buddy boost me in please" problem solved in 5 seconds. Oh yeah make sure you have armour and the comm's attention spit is a wee bit powerful in vents
Super intuitive for people to figure out without being told.
I think that's the primary thing here. To a rookie, this is simply a stupidly annoying "ganky" strategy that costs very little, has low risk, and reasonably high reward. There's no intuitive way to get into some of these vents. It doesn't matter how easy it might be for people like us who know what we're doing. It really doesn't matter if it "forces marines to use teamwork." This strategy simply shouldn't be effective.
It's not what the Gorge's role is, it's not how Gorge is designed to be played. Gorges are a support role that are supposed to be supported by skulks to do the heavy lifting. A lone gorge should be a dead gorge (unless the gorge is really good, but that exception applies to all things NS2). Allowing a lone gorge to single-handedly deny resnodes, tech-points, etc in such a way that the gorge isn't even in real danger simply shouldn't exist.
There are a grand total of two possible fixes:
1. Change the Map so that the Vents in question (Veil's Skylights, Refinery's Containment, Veil's East Junction non-vent) cannot be biled from effectively but still can be used as alien specific transportation. (Like what happened to Veil's Nano and Sub).
or
2. Change the Map so that marines can access the vents in question in a more intuitive fashion.
From the tone of voice here, It sounds like #1 would be far less objectionable.
Yea, I don't agree with your initial premise, that it's not part of the gorge's role. You are correct, that currently it is low risk, high reward. It is the low risk that's the problem, not the high reward. If you simply make it a risky strategy, but maintain the high reward, you remedy the problem without limiting player decision making. It's rarely worth it to waste the pres a gorge costs for a single rt.
So no, I don't agree that #1 is less objectionable. It's the easier fix, I'll admit, but why limit strategies when we can balance them out?
Like seriously, even if you can't make the jump from overlook or W.Junction all it takes it "hey buddy boost me in please" problem solved in 5 seconds. Oh yeah make sure you have armour and the comm's attention spit is a wee bit powerful in vents
Super intuitive for people to figure out without being told.
I think that's the primary thing here. To a rookie, this is simply a stupidly annoying "ganky" strategy that costs very little, has low risk, and reasonably high reward. There's no intuitive way to get into some of these vents. It doesn't matter how easy it might be for people like us who know what we're doing. It really doesn't matter if it "forces marines to use teamwork." This strategy simply shouldn't be effective.
It's not what the Gorge's role is, it's not how Gorge is designed to be played. Gorges are a support role that are supposed to be supported by skulks to do the heavy lifting. A lone gorge should be a dead gorge (unless the gorge is really good, but that exception applies to all things NS2). Allowing a lone gorge to single-handedly deny resnodes, tech-points, etc in such a way that the gorge isn't even in real danger simply shouldn't exist.
There are a grand total of two possible fixes:
1. Change the Map so that the Vents in question (Veil's Skylights, Refinery's Containment, Veil's East Junction non-vent) cannot be biled from effectively but still can be used as alien specific transportation. (Like what happened to Veil's Nano and Sub).
or
2. Change the Map so that marines can access the vents in question in a more intuitive fashion.
From the tone of voice here, It sounds like #1 would be far less objectionable.
Yea, I don't agree with your initial premise, that it's not part of the gorge's role. You are correct, that currently it is low risk, high reward. It is the low risk that's the problem, not the high reward. If you simply make it a risky strategy, but maintain the high reward, you remedy the problem without limiting player decision making. It's rarely worth it to waste the pres a gorge costs for a single rt.
So no, I don't agree that #1 is less objectionable. It's the easier fix, I'll admit, but why limit strategies when we can balance them out?
Dunno if we can call a gorge camping in a vent a strategy
Is this a change that is going to happen or are you saying the jump in overlook used to be harder? I feel if that jump in overlook was a more obvious/easier that would be a great solution. It forces marines to get all the way to overlook, so skulks could still have a big advantage, but marines wouldn't be completely hosed if a gorge gets holed up in there. win/win.
Now if you could kindly point that containment vent downward ever so slightly...
Comments
I think people are underestimating how much of an impact something like this could have on the game. For instance when Aliens start in Sub.
Yea I see what you mean. Then I'd suggest that you make a level drop in the vent, so that a marine cannot travel from skylights to overlook through the vent, but he can still access it and kill off a potential gorge.
Agreed that getting into places your not supposed to be is awsome.
As others have said, the main problem with the skylights-overlook vent is that 1 gorge (or skulk) can deny and dsestroy 2 RTs (a full side of the map) with relative impunity.
A ladder in skylights would make the vent almost useless for aliens, a ladder in overlook would allow marines access if they can get around to overlook. Aliens would still have an advantage, but marines could still defend reasonably well.
Because it's not a problem in any kind of competetive setting, for various reasons. That alone should tell you, that it's actually rarely worth the trouble in the first place. As others have pointed out already, it's not actually the fact that you lose an rt that's the problem, it's that it works as a huge distraction for rookies.
Aliens get early access to them and marines by pushing eachother up or by using jetpacks. It's a tactical advantage that doesn't always work, but it's there. So why fuck it up if there is no need to?
I know i could easily evolve in Skylights vent anyhwere. Now you can only at those junctions and shafts. Same for 99% of other vents around Veil. Haven't checked others. And it certainly wasn't months or even years...
Obscure fact of the day: There are a few vent locations where you usually can't evolve, but you can while holding "crouch". Sometimes you can't evolve in a vent because you're actually wall-walking. Press crouch to make sure you're on the floor, then try evolving again. (Proper explanation provided by @Mendasp.)
Haven't noticed a difference in 267 so far.
Anyway, if you know the map & are pretty good for platform game, you'll be able to go into these vents by yourself & kill that said gorge. This is not so hard if your Commander is willing to help you with some medpacks to do it, so yes it can take a few minutes but when it's done, in general, the gorge won't do it again (for the same round at least).
And Veil is the only issue in that case. Whether people think this needs to be changed, what's your idea? You have your point but it also needs a solution to counter this or to improve it. Reduce ventilations size to avoid gorge to jump in? Or something else, dunno. This is not a gameplay issue but definitely a map issue and it only occurs for Containement on Refinery 'cause as already said, gorge is able to spit all the room & this is a tech point for Marines too.
The last solution is: find who's this gorge & kick him. (joke) --> although I know some servers & admins that won't hesitate to do this.
There are really only 3 vents I feel get abused.
The containment one should exit either somewhere else, use a vent cover like at nano, or just point the exit down instead of out!
Cargo could be fixed with putting some debris in the way, or perhaps some extra barrels so marines can hop onto one of the large shipping containers. It's not as tacky as a ladder but it would give marines access to the gorges without being acrobats.
If the vent at skylights went down and exited near the ground, it would make it just as hard for marines to get in, easier for skulks to use, and about useless for a gorge to hole up in.
Make a level drop in the vent, like you have in for example crossroads/maintenance vent. The marine can get in to the vent from crossroads side, but he can't exit it from the maintenance side.
This way, you can deny the gorge from skylights side, without wasting all that travel time running to west junc or overlook - and you don't change the aliens abillity to hide in the vent. As I said earlier, I love trick jumps, but you can not design a map in such a way that a popular and strong tactics only counter, is a trick jump that you:
1) have to have obscure map knowledge to even know about
2) have the skill to perform the trick jump
Because this ^ removes the abillity for a rookie to counter the tactic, and that's not ok when we're talking about the denial of TWO resource towers. Moreover, if the aliens lock down overlook (maybe they started sub), the marines don't have access to overlook - it seems unfair that they'd have to sac the skylights rt on default. I know you can get in from west junc side as well, but you are really vulnerable during that jump.
Keep in mind, nobody is suggesting this is a problem in competetive games, this is only a problem in pubs - so the whole argument about trick jumps doesn't belong here.
I made the jumps in Overlook and West easier, however. I also closed those minivents in East (which I think I had closed before?). And I also made the RT location in Pipeline wider so you can put cysts and drifters in non-exposed positions, also adjusted the initial cysts there according to the change.
What minivents? You mean those that are at the top on the Nanogrid wall? By the way, there's nothing to do about vents in Nano for Marines, I mean, it's kinda easy to jump into these vents from East & West Junction but once you're in, this is just impossible to go out. So yeah, of course, the best solution is just to avoid these vents as Marines & don't be retard enough to jump in.
As Santa said, this is only a public issue, I don't even imagine seeing a gorge in these vents to harass Marines. Except maybe the one in Y Junction just near the node when Marines attempt to build a PG here & even there, it's pretty easy to kill the gorge or anything else.
Is there a perfect idea or solution for this problem? I don't think so anyway, some will be for Aliens advantages and others will be for Marines advantages, and the original idea was to make easier the way to kill gorges in problematic vents for Marines.
That's great. It definetely remedies my second issue. It's probably good enough, but..
I'm not sure what you're saying is true. You don't have to change the entrance to the vent in skylights at all to implement my suggestion. You can just add a sort of "pit" well within the vent - it doesn't need to be at the entrance. Sort of like the reverse of what you did in reactor core vent on summit.
Idk perhaps it's not necessary now that you made it easier to jump in from the other side, I'd just still prefere being able to approach from skylights personally, to allow for saving travel time.
Marine 1 crouches.
Marine 2 jumps on his/her head.
Marine 1 releases crouch.
Marine 2 spams jump.
Marine 1 spams jump.
Marine 2 gains access to vent.
Like seriously, even if you can't make the jump from overlook or W.Junction all it takes it "hey buddy boost me in please" problem solved in 5 seconds. Oh yeah make sure you have armour and the comm's attention
Pretty easy to do from Overlook yeah, a tiny bit harder from W Junction (personally i'm too bad to jump in there). It also depends if the gorge placed some clogs to block your vision. The best thing is to trap the gorge with one from Overlook & another one from Skylight, it takes time for say, but at least, it's cleaned.
That is a good point. If it was really such a big issue to have access to the skylights side vent, then why are we not seeing more boosts in competetive?
If anyone would like to maintain that it is a big problem in comp, then I think we have to reconsider the level drop / pit suggestion.
Can take to long, 2 marines facing the wall trying to jump, 1 mistake, and they could have 4-5 skulks rushing them from sub hive, now if they get there fast, do it on 1st attempt, then it can work out,
Skylights vent has changed a little, as the marine ducking then standing was enough to boost into the vent before, but was seen as quite OP for on rushing skulks that got killed because a marine was in the vent faster than the skulk could get out
I think that's the primary thing here. To a rookie, this is simply a stupidly annoying "ganky" strategy that costs very little, has low risk, and reasonably high reward. There's no intuitive way to get into some of these vents. It doesn't matter how easy it might be for people like us who know what we're doing. It really doesn't matter if it "forces marines to use teamwork." This strategy simply shouldn't be effective.
It's not what the Gorge's role is, it's not how Gorge is designed to be played. Gorges are a support role that are supposed to be supported by skulks to do the heavy lifting. A lone gorge should be a dead gorge (unless the gorge is really good, but that exception applies to all things NS2). Allowing a lone gorge to single-handedly deny resnodes, tech-points, etc in such a way that the gorge isn't even in real danger simply shouldn't exist.
There are a grand total of two possible fixes:
1. Change the Map so that the Vents in question (Veil's Skylights, Refinery's Containment, Veil's East Junction non-vent) cannot be biled from effectively but still can be used as alien specific transportation. (Like what happened to Veil's Nano and Sub).
or
2. Change the Map so that marines can access the vents in question in a more intuitive fashion.
From the tone of voice here, It sounds like #1 would be far less objectionable.
Yea, I don't agree with your initial premise, that it's not part of the gorge's role. You are correct, that currently it is low risk, high reward. It is the low risk that's the problem, not the high reward. If you simply make it a risky strategy, but maintain the high reward, you remedy the problem without limiting player decision making. It's rarely worth it to waste the pres a gorge costs for a single rt.
So no, I don't agree that #1 is less objectionable. It's the easier fix, I'll admit, but why limit strategies when we can balance them out?
Dunno if we can call a gorge camping in a vent a strategy
Is this a change that is going to happen or are you saying the jump in overlook used to be harder? I feel if that jump in overlook was a more obvious/easier that would be a great solution. It forces marines to get all the way to overlook, so skulks could still have a big advantage, but marines wouldn't be completely hosed if a gorge gets holed up in there. win/win.
Now if you could kindly point that containment vent downward ever so slightly...