I have now been waiting 8 weeks for this latest patch released today so i can at least launch this game i paid you for at launch and you still have not fixed it!!!!!!!
8 weeks and it still does not work?????
This is beyond a joke now and i am left with a purchase that does not work at all now on XP even though the game was sold to me as being compatible with XP.
Yeah yeah, I could install 7 and dual boot but why should i mess about??
When is this getting fixed and if it is not being fixed i feel its only fair that i am refunded the cost of my purchase.
Sorry for my post, but you're playing under WinXP for too long. It was supported almost a 2 years. But NS2 evolves constantly, it needs to support a new OSs' WinVista, Win7, Win8, Win8.1 and upcoming Win10. It was clear from the start that it is hard to keep wasting limited resources to keep legacy running. No offence just a reality.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
As other people have stated, XP is extremely out-of-date. However, if I can track down the problem, and address it without impacting other Windows versions, we'll get a fix in.
I won't make any promises / guarantees however.
If you look on the Steam store page for NS2 right now you will see it is still sold as supporting XP.
This is false as it is not working for XP for at least the past 2 months, this is a fact.
I have already said if i was so inclined i could set up a dual boot and run this under W7 but i do not feel that i should go out of my way and invest the time just to get this one game running when i purchased it as being compatable with XP which it is now not.
I cant really be any clearer????
I have managed to repoduce the issue on a WIndows XP Virtual Machine, and have passed off the dumps to the programmers. However, none of the Community development team run Windows XP anymore, as it is about to be a 14 year old OS that is no longer supported by Microsoft.
Guys, we are doing our best with the limited resources. There is no-one getting paid to look at this issue, only volunteers and we can only do the best we can. McGlaspie said he and the others will try and look into it. Thanks for your understanding.
Good that McGlaspie is looking into this so respect where it is due but i was told a simalar thing weeks ago by Ironhorse and so far the game is still broken so i dont know how much faith i have that this can be fixed to be honest as its already been ongoing for 2 months.
Yes, yes, XP is old and the CDT team are not currently being paid a wage from Uwe but i paid you lot already when i bought the game at launch for the full retail price and so far you have managed to break the game with patches as often as you actually fix issues with them.
Stating that no one is getting paid today to sort this out is irrelevant as Uwe have had my money for 12 months or more for a working game and all i have is data on my harddrive......
I am happy at present to give the guys some more time to sort this out.
What i do not accept is the usual "OS is old, its your own fault" line or "nobody is getting paid" crap, it does not fly at all.
However, none of the Community development team run Windows XP anymore, as it is about to be a 14 year old OS that is no longer supported by Microsoft.
So, you can expect that NS2 builds are no longer been tested under WinXP. Bugs can happen. Just look at this:
Everyone has already given the helpful information, so I'll be the one to put things more bluntly.
It has already been suggested that the depreciated 14 year old OS you're using needs updating as it has become old and insufficient for modern gaming, which has unreasonably fallen on deaf ears. I mean, you didn't expect Half-life to run on DOS 3.0 did you? (The same 14 year OS difference) It's amazing that NS2 even ran on XP at launch, but it's just not surprising that after multiple years of constant updating it has not been able to be maintained. Many many unfortunate sacrifices in quality were made for all users just in attempts to keep those few XP users playing - a percentage fewer than the 4% of all steam users.
This may or may not be the moment when we can no longer maintain it for those few users. Regardless, while being upset is understandable, your view on the matter is misinformed and unreasonable.
Legally, UWE nor Steam is under any legal obligation to acquiesce your request for a refund for said software, based upon the End License User Agreement as well as Subscriber Agreement that you have willingly consented to by downloading said software.
Observe:
"The Steam client software and any other software, content, and updates you download or access via Steam, including but not limited to Valve or third-party video games and in-game content, and any virtual items you trade, sell or purchase in a Steam Subscription Marketplace are referred to in this Agreement as “Software”
For reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Steam may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Software may change over time"
You can legitimately upgrade to Win 7 for ~$50 (which pays for itself in the extra memory and performance you get) on sites like ebay etc to cease being the last remaining 4% of the PC gaming crowd.
But in any case, Mcglaspie is a clever guy and very much cares about such issues, so you could just wait and pray as before.. just don't be surprised if he can't pull a rabbit out of a hat for such a dinosaur of a system.
"missinformed and unreasonable"
Are you trolling now or do you actually believe that????
You guys sold to me a game that was at the time of purchase and still is according to the Steam store page compatable with Windows XP.
This is a fact plain and simple.
The game does not even boot up let alone work to any degree at all on an a XP machine and has not done so for the past few months, period. So the game is being sold as being compatable with XP when it clearly is not.
An oversite??
A misrepresentation??
A complete false hood??
How am i "missinformed and unreasonable"??
If you read what i have posted you will see that i have already said that i am willing to accept you need more time to fix it beyond the 2 months you have already had.
Let's say for example you had sold 10,000 copys of this game, according to the Steam user figures posted above there are a little over 4% of XP users, that still equates to more that 400 of your customers you would be leaving hanging.
For such a small start up company as Uwe alienating such a portion of its tiny user base is not a good strategy if it expects to grow in the future.
Do you honestly believe all of the people who feel screwed by this are going to jump on board the next game???
I would not really call it anger, i dont know your experience with anger so i dont know what you would compare it with but expressing it in written form in some way you would need to be me responding with malice or speaking in caps or being disrespectful and threatening which i am not at all.
I disagree with a lot of the things that are being spouted and expressing a different opinion to someone else is not anger, i disagree that being in the minority is no excuse and volunteers not getting paid for the work so therefor support XP users will no longer continue, this i disagree on having already paid for the game to run on XP.
Its not a question of wnating to upgrade to play NS2 its the point of being sold software that does not work on the system as advertised and being told basically XP is old its your own fault, that is my concern.
A couple of weeks back i was searching through a couple of sites on the web out of curiosity to see how much a legit copy of W8 was being sold for. Without too much effort i could have bought W8.1 for about 16 bucks.
Did i??? No. Why???
I have used W8 and i do not like it, the same i can say for Vista. I do however use and enjoy using W7 on another system and consider this to be a great OS, by Microsoft standards anyway.
If i come across a copy of W7 for a few dollors i might pick it up but to be fair W10 is due out in a few months so why bother as i plan on building a new system soon anyway and if Microsoft dont screw up 10 like they did with 8 i will go with W10 on the new machine then.
It's amazing that NS2 even ran on XP at launch, but it's just not surprising that after multiple years of constant updating it has not been able to be maintained. Many many unfortunate sacrifices in quality were made for all users just in attempts to keep those few XP users playing - a percentage fewer than the 4% of all steam users.
Well we all know what happened with that reinforced/the hitcher update.. Time to ditch all the 32 bit users for good, sorry had to say that
XP died years ago (for me XP died when Vista 64 SP1 came), if people really want use that bsod system thats fine, but dont expect any miracles. XP was good for old pc's and right now it would be okay for netbooks. XP support finally died 8.4.2014 and after that people just can't demand any support for games/software.. NS2 description is outdated
IF there ever will be THEN people should be damn glad that somebody have time or any motivation to support "for nothing".. any new update can destroy that work
Thank god there is only about 2% of Vista users but i am horrified so many use 8.1, my god man, its spreading quicker than Ebola.
Now you see, that shows your ignorance. Windows 8.x is by far the best OS microsoft has so far released.
Sure, there are one or two complaints about the UI, but FFS, all this horseshit I read about 8.1 is doing my head in.
8.1 is a fantastic OS, with about 2-3% faster performance in NS2 than Win7 (personal testing figures, your system mileage may vary).
All this whining about the 8.1 interface isn't even valid any more now the start menu has been re-added, but still, those users, the majority of which seem to be still in the XP dark ages, take the piss out of 8.1. Ignorance is bliss I guess...
Let me tell you just thing that makes 8.1 a better OS than XP - It can run NS2!!
There are millions more things that are better about 8.1 than XP, but that seemed the most relevant to this thread.
WinXP is not only a dinosaur, but if you run it on your home network, you are risking infecting your whole network.
XP should automatically be uninstalled from any machine capable of running a better OS, unfoturnately, I still have to use XP on this ancient laptop I have, but hey, we don't live in a perfect world.....
Also, you claim the issue occurred in 269, then you are claiming you want your money back, for a 2 year old game. You had plenty of time to play NS2 on XP before 269...
"Thank god there is only about 2% of Vista users but i am horrified so many use 8.1, my god man, its spreading quicker than Ebola."
Did you not get that comment was light hearted ???
I run 7 on another system as i have said and its a good OS, 8 i do not like at all, sorry, same with Vista so i wait for 10 to arrive unless they balls that one up too.
"automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Software may change over time"
You are NOT guaranteed any maintained compatibility for any product on steam, and have consented to such an agreement. System requirements MAY change - especially if the game is updated years and years after.
And while I don't speak for the whole CDT, I can safely say that many of us want to drop support for XP (and have for a long time) for a myriad of reasons. This would include updating the store page.
We have stats on exactly how many users are using XP currently and it's just not justifying the upkeep / development time or sacrifices in quality for the rest of the playerbase.
For such a small start up company as Uwe alienating such a portion of its tiny user base is not a good strategy if it expects to grow in the future...
Do you honestly believe all of the people who feel screwed by this are going to jump on board the next game???
...Really?.. "alienated" and "screwed"?? Because they wanted to have the game available to as many people as possible, years ago? Your tone and word choices are precisely why I have attempted to speak more bluntly with you.
However, the fact that your next post has you explaining that you are upgrading anyways tells me that none of this is actually news to you, and that you know how unreasonable your expectation are, along with your responses like those. So we'll leave it at that, and if there's any update to this issue Mcglaspie or myself will drop in with something.
Ok, i did intend to let this post lie for a while and see if a fix is posted in a few weeks but Ironhorse thinks i am being unreasonable so i will bite.
Expecting software to work on my machine for a couple of years is being unreasonable is it???
The Steam sub agreement has always left a lot to be desired and has already been challenged numerous times in courts around the world for some of its dictates. Because something is written down in said agreement does not make it ethical or even right but businesses have always hidden behind there like and will continue to do if they can get away with it.
I better way of doing things but these days unfortunately less mainstream example would use GOG.com as a standard, shopping with them i am guaranteed my purchase will work or i can receive a no quibble refund, i dont need to sign up to any suspect "Agreement".
So far after using them for years all the sofware i bought through them works on my XP and 7 machine, though i use the 7 machine for business not games.
For the record as things seem to have be taken to the letter i have no intention of pushing to get a refund if this game cannot be made to work again on XP, it was i point i was making that i would be within my rights to do so regardless of the wording in the Steam Subscriber Agreement.
I dont know what country your from, Uwe i think is Australia but here in the UK any such Agreement takes a backseat to the Law.
Anyway hope this has cleared some things up for those who were confused
GhoulofGSG9Join Date: 2013-03-31Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
edited November 2014
Sorry but looking at your logs your system is clearly outdated as you are still using xp sp2 32bit (ns2 needs at least xp sp3) and your are even below the minimum specs of ns2 following the steam store page ( your CPU might has a higher base frequency than 2.6 GHz but Pentiums are weaker than Core Duos)
Therefore don't get me wrong but we can't and won't support an outdated systems like any other IT company which doesn't even fit to the needed minimum specs.
So overall if you really want to play ns2 consider a pc hardware upgrade to reach at least the required minimum specs!
Great , so its a no ? After i have buy NS2 from 2012 , minimum spec on Steam Store is "WindowXP"
Now you guys act like Microsoft >> abandon XP and force people have to buy Windows7 ,8,9,10 ?
Basically I'm saying that your spec doesn't even fit to those min specs at the store. So you can't expect ns2 to run. If it did in the past, well lucky you. But today your spec has to fit to those minimum requirements at least.
And btw there are good reasons why Microsoft isn't supporting XP anymore. If they would do so we would never see any progress at all in the pc world.
Comments
yeah its not working anyway , but thanks
8 weeks and it still does not work?????
This is beyond a joke now and i am left with a purchase that does not work at all now on XP even though the game was sold to me as being compatible with XP.
Yeah yeah, I could install 7 and dual boot but why should i mess about??
When is this getting fixed and if it is not being fixed i feel its only fair that i am refunded the cost of my purchase.
(but XP realllly??)
I won't make any promises / guarantees however.
This is false as it is not working for XP for at least the past 2 months, this is a fact.
I have already said if i was so inclined i could set up a dual boot and run this under W7 but i do not feel that i should go out of my way and invest the time just to get this one game running when i purchased it as being compatable with XP which it is now not.
I cant really be any clearer????
NS2:combat and Subnautica seem make developers not care about us =='
Sad ......
Guys, we are doing our best with the limited resources. There is no-one getting paid to look at this issue, only volunteers and we can only do the best we can. McGlaspie said he and the others will try and look into it. Thanks for your understanding.
Yes, yes, XP is old and the CDT team are not currently being paid a wage from Uwe but i paid you lot already when i bought the game at launch for the full retail price and so far you have managed to break the game with patches as often as you actually fix issues with them.
Stating that no one is getting paid today to sort this out is irrelevant as Uwe have had my money for 12 months or more for a working game and all i have is data on my harddrive......
Can you see the point???
What i do not accept is the usual "OS is old, its your own fault" line or "nobody is getting paid" crap, it does not fly at all.
Everyone has already given the helpful information, so I'll be the one to put things more bluntly.
It has already been suggested that the depreciated 14 year old OS you're using needs updating as it has become old and insufficient for modern gaming, which has unreasonably fallen on deaf ears. I mean, you didn't expect Half-life to run on DOS 3.0 did you? (The same 14 year OS difference) It's amazing that NS2 even ran on XP at launch, but it's just not surprising that after multiple years of constant updating it has not been able to be maintained. Many many unfortunate sacrifices in quality were made for all users just in attempts to keep those few XP users playing - a percentage fewer than the 4% of all steam users.
This may or may not be the moment when we can no longer maintain it for those few users. Regardless, while being upset is understandable, your view on the matter is misinformed and unreasonable.
Legally, UWE nor Steam is under any legal obligation to acquiesce your request for a refund for said software, based upon the End License User Agreement as well as Subscriber Agreement that you have willingly consented to by downloading said software.
Observe:
For reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Steam may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Software may change over time"
You can legitimately upgrade to Win 7 for ~$50 (which pays for itself in the extra memory and performance you get) on sites like ebay etc to cease being the last remaining 4% of the PC gaming crowd.
But in any case, Mcglaspie is a clever guy and very much cares about such issues, so you could just wait and pray as before.. just don't be surprised if he can't pull a rabbit out of a hat for such a dinosaur of a system.
Are you trolling now or do you actually believe that????
You guys sold to me a game that was at the time of purchase and still is according to the Steam store page compatable with Windows XP.
This is a fact plain and simple.
The game does not even boot up let alone work to any degree at all on an a XP machine and has not done so for the past few months, period. So the game is being sold as being compatable with XP when it clearly is not.
An oversite??
A misrepresentation??
A complete false hood??
How am i "missinformed and unreasonable"??
If you read what i have posted you will see that i have already said that i am willing to accept you need more time to fix it beyond the 2 months you have already had.
Let's say for example you had sold 10,000 copys of this game, according to the Steam user figures posted above there are a little over 4% of XP users, that still equates to more that 400 of your customers you would be leaving hanging.
For such a small start up company as Uwe alienating such a portion of its tiny user base is not a good strategy if it expects to grow in the future.
Do you honestly believe all of the people who feel screwed by this are going to jump on board the next game???
At the very least, the XP support on the steam store page needs to look like this:
"OS:Windows 7 32/64-bit / Vista 32/64 / XP " !
After you've calmed down, realise that and now, frankly, XP support is the sacrifice.
Decide for yourselves if you want to upgrade to play NS2. I would.
I disagree with a lot of the things that are being spouted and expressing a different opinion to someone else is not anger, i disagree that being in the minority is no excuse and volunteers not getting paid for the work so therefor support XP users will no longer continue, this i disagree on having already paid for the game to run on XP.
Its not a question of wnating to upgrade to play NS2 its the point of being sold software that does not work on the system as advertised and being told basically XP is old its your own fault, that is my concern.
A couple of weeks back i was searching through a couple of sites on the web out of curiosity to see how much a legit copy of W8 was being sold for. Without too much effort i could have bought W8.1 for about 16 bucks.
Did i??? No. Why???
I have used W8 and i do not like it, the same i can say for Vista. I do however use and enjoy using W7 on another system and consider this to be a great OS, by Microsoft standards anyway.
If i come across a copy of W7 for a few dollors i might pick it up but to be fair W10 is due out in a few months so why bother as i plan on building a new system soon anyway and if Microsoft dont screw up 10 like they did with 8 i will go with W10 on the new machine then.
XP died years ago (for me XP died when Vista 64 SP1 came), if people really want use that bsod system thats fine, but dont expect any miracles. XP was good for old pc's and right now it would be okay for netbooks. XP support finally died 8.4.2014 and after that people just can't demand any support for games/software.. NS2 description is outdated
IF there ever will be THEN people should be damn glad that somebody have time or any motivation to support "for nothing".. any new update can destroy that work
Now you see, that shows your ignorance. Windows 8.x is by far the best OS microsoft has so far released.
Sure, there are one or two complaints about the UI, but FFS, all this horseshit I read about 8.1 is doing my head in.
8.1 is a fantastic OS, with about 2-3% faster performance in NS2 than Win7 (personal testing figures, your system mileage may vary).
All this whining about the 8.1 interface isn't even valid any more now the start menu has been re-added, but still, those users, the majority of which seem to be still in the XP dark ages, take the piss out of 8.1. Ignorance is bliss I guess...
Let me tell you just thing that makes 8.1 a better OS than XP - It can run NS2!!
There are millions more things that are better about 8.1 than XP, but that seemed the most relevant to this thread.
WinXP is not only a dinosaur, but if you run it on your home network, you are risking infecting your whole network.
XP should automatically be uninstalled from any machine capable of running a better OS, unfoturnately, I still have to use XP on this ancient laptop I have, but hey, we don't live in a perfect world.....
Also, you claim the issue occurred in 269, then you are claiming you want your money back, for a 2 year old game. You had plenty of time to play NS2 on XP before 269...
Did you not get that comment was light hearted ???
I run 7 on another system as i have said and its a good OS, 8 i do not like at all, sorry, same with Vista so i wait for 10 to arrive unless they balls that one up too.
And while I don't speak for the whole CDT, I can safely say that many of us want to drop support for XP (and have for a long time) for a myriad of reasons. This would include updating the store page.
We have stats on exactly how many users are using XP currently and it's just not justifying the upkeep / development time or sacrifices in quality for the rest of the playerbase.
...Really?.. "alienated" and "screwed"?? Because they wanted to have the game available to as many people as possible, years ago? Your tone and word choices are precisely why I have attempted to speak more bluntly with you.
However, the fact that your next post has you explaining that you are upgrading anyways tells me that none of this is actually news to you, and that you know how unreasonable your expectation are, along with your responses like those. So we'll leave it at that, and if there's any update to this issue Mcglaspie or myself will drop in with something.
Expecting software to work on my machine for a couple of years is being unreasonable is it???
The Steam sub agreement has always left a lot to be desired and has already been challenged numerous times in courts around the world for some of its dictates. Because something is written down in said agreement does not make it ethical or even right but businesses have always hidden behind there like and will continue to do if they can get away with it.
I better way of doing things but these days unfortunately less mainstream example would use GOG.com as a standard, shopping with them i am guaranteed my purchase will work or i can receive a no quibble refund, i dont need to sign up to any suspect "Agreement".
So far after using them for years all the sofware i bought through them works on my XP and 7 machine, though i use the 7 machine for business not games.
For the record as things seem to have be taken to the letter i have no intention of pushing to get a refund if this game cannot be made to work again on XP, it was i point i was making that i would be within my rights to do so regardless of the wording in the Steam Subscriber Agreement.
I dont know what country your from, Uwe i think is Australia but here in the UK any such Agreement takes a backseat to the Law.
Anyway hope this has cleared some things up for those who were confused
I just want someone with respondbilty + capabilty can solve this Black Screen for me , thats all !!
Mr.Flayra as one of UWE founder and developers , what do you think about your customer complain ?
how long we have to wait ? (no offense here)
Therefore don't get me wrong but we can't and won't support an outdated systems like any other IT company which doesn't even fit to the needed minimum specs.
So overall if you really want to play ns2 consider a pc hardware upgrade to reach at least the required minimum specs!
Now you guys act like Microsoft >> abandon XP and force people have to buy Windows7 ,8,9,10 ?
Basically I'm saying that your spec doesn't even fit to those min specs at the store. So you can't expect ns2 to run. If it did in the past, well lucky you. But today your spec has to fit to those minimum requirements at least.
And btw there are good reasons why Microsoft isn't supporting XP anymore. If they would do so we would never see any progress at all in the pc world.