As I said on this post it doesn't take too much to run ns2. The total cost of the MB, CPU and Vid card in that setup was just over $200. Get the same mb/cpu spend an extra $100 and you'd have pretty good and steady fps.
However you are correct about this game and some of the effects. IMO, they should have been set to off by default. They may look nice, but they eat fps.
@Alf90
You talk about casual player while i'm talking about first timers.
Facts since 2012:
A SteamSale comes up
Buyers install, go to server browser, get the best server in their opinion (while they know little about the game) and connect. usually they end up on high capacity (slots) servers.
They get obliterated, frustrated and finally disconnect. Eventually never to come back.
Try this exercise/challenge. Try to convince vets player from a 24 slot server to help and teach the rookies that just installed the game. Some have tried as i did. It ends up in bloodshed not because the rookies can't handle this. But veteran just are here for their taste of meat. The best i saw was 6 minutes, then the game goes on...
A. Make a 16 slot server. There you have more options.
B. With a 16 slot (and lower) server you'll nearly die when the end is near and 3 ppl just leave to a different server instead of wait 5 mins for the round to end. Then you'll have people who are tired of not being able to spawn on the other team leave that server for another so they can actually play the game instead of watch others play.
I agree that the spawn limitation (on player leaving (F4) the other team) is more or less bad. I vote for the game to finish like that (teamwork failed on "F4ers team" so be it). Then as it finishes faster, everybody won't wait long before a new one starts. The only issue would be disconnection (accidentally) but in any case, there nothing to do about it. In comp you have "pause" don't worry. It can be an abuse as vote surrender did, but better play more games than no games at all.
For myself, I like smaller games, 8v8 is good. However with a 10v10+ server you don't get hit by the people leaving all at once without enough time for others to join. If you watch, most people leave when the "round is over" (aka, one team starts winning). And more people will leave at the map change. A fair amount of people still load slowly (I timed someone take 7 mins yesterday to load on a map change). Those with SSDs or just load semi fast will leave if too many people are still loading after a min (I guess they think the others have left the server).
There are all example available. It depends on who is on the server, also what timezone there in, etc. I saw players quitting on large server too and have it die. Fast and cheap games aren't the thing in NS2. A resource game is about time.
Having a bigger server means the chance of it dying out is less likely to happen than a smaller server has.
There are people who like to play the bigger 10v10+ games. There are those who like smaller. The idea of hiding servers based on their size not only hurts the server op (and there aren't "that" many), but also takes away from the player base who enjoy bigger games. And we all know there aren't enough players in this game that we (mainly you) should be taking a fair number of servers away (aka, hidden).
And bigger servers don't always equal bad server side performance. There are A LOT of smaller servers that play bad daily, each round. Yet people still play on those servers, after more than a year. Would you say those people do not know better still?
On my side of the world there is no big issue on server performance. It may be different on other places. Ok fine. That said why throwing tons of "under 20hour players" in this kind of large server ? Well they click on connect but you get the point. They usually ignore the message, click on "don't bother me again" checkbox, then click "OK". They just gonna get frustrated in the end. I don't understand why some large server owner whine about player retention.
I don't say CDT/UWE have to remove/hide items from the server list permanently. Just, let the new comers get used to the game, play with the same kind of player for a while, get the basics, train a little, get comfortable. Having a good start will definitely be better than getting raped. Then they'll go wherever they want. 40 slots server if they like! Eventually, leave if they don't like NS2. At least they got the proper introduction.
My focus is solely on new player and how to make them like and playing the game more. In fact i just count "who has what in the pockets at the end of the story" (Direct French translation). I just wish for them to get a proper and good NS2 experience (discovery). So far, there are some issues.
As I said on this post it doesn't take too much to run ns2.
not saying you are wrong, but i'd like to point something out: it might be rather cheap by todays standards, but it can take a few years until the status quo has reached all the gamers (i guess same goes for servers).
e.g. personally, i intentionally "fall behind" as it saves me a ton of money for hardware and also games (as they get cheaper over time too). all you need to do is resist the hype long enough to find out which games you still really want to play once their hype wears off. yes, you might miss some pioneering spirit, but older games are also more polished, e.g. i was unable to play ns2 during early stages.
There's a pretty huge difference between "able to run ns2" and "good performance", then again i don't really know what specs you'd need to be right in the middle, i just bought the best i could get, and i'm trying to fight the irritation when i see my fps drop from 200(i want to say what it goes down to but i dont remember or its just so random in past patches due to varying issues with the game)because of subpar coding, to put it bluntly.
I agree with the options set to default, i remember some games used to have a feature that they would try to override graphical settings inregards to how well the game had run previously. Something like that could be useful.
I have played on a (since I never have seen it before new?) server yesterday that not only hat 30+ slots but also had it's own balance mod that made playing on that server next to impossible. I am sure the maker of that mod had the intention to make the game better but for me as an experienced player it just seemed like random changes on a lot of numbers in the game. Some examples:
1. Parasite damage increased to 30 and instead of 30 seconds it remains 90 (pretty much meaning that once you got aparasite as marine you can't sneak anywhere within that specific life and it's likely that you get parasited to death from one or more skulks)
2. Lerk adrenaline cost changed, basically nerfing the lerk to completely useless. You could fly to a marine flapping twice, shooting some spikes and biting ones and then you sat on the floor next to the marine because you had 0 adrenaline.
3. Marine lmg clip size reduced to 35 meaning if you fight two or more skulks you run out of ammo. But thats no problem, you still got your pistol, right? Wrong! Pistol shooting delay was so high, that the pistol was nearly useless.
4. One pack of mines (15pres) gives 6 mines. We had a hilarious game where we rushed mines and the comm just kept dropping mines. In the end the whole map was mined and the aliens couldn't move anywhere. (I was standing in our base getting kill after kill just because some skulk jumoed on one of my 100 mines on the map)
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with modded servers or even high slot servers (although I don't like to play on them and personally think it's not the way the game should be played, but that is just my kind of taste). But in my opinion the higher number of servers should be <20 slot servers without weird balance chaning mods, so that new players learn how this game really plays. In my opinion high playercount servers and servers with ridiculous mods like described above should be shown in a different way. At least with a very serious warning about what the player is gonna experience there or maybe show up in a seperate (experimental/modded/whatever) server browser.
@the_tick :
If by any chance, the universe would grant everyone the ultimate and delightful pleasure... no; better yet, the exquisite delicacy of : you to just get lost. I'll accept that. You're more a collection of "disagree" than anything else lately. And you thought you could look cool throwing that ? Please step in the wagon of the useless launched on the railroad to oblivion.
I have played on a (since I never have seen it before new?) server yesterday that not only hat 30+ slots but also had it's own balance mod that made playing on that server next to impossible. I am sure the maker of that mod had the intention to make the game better but for me as an experienced player it just seemed like random changes on a lot of numbers in the game. Some examples:
1. Parasite damage increased to 30 and instead of 30 seconds it remains 90 (pretty much meaning that once you got aparasite as marine you can't sneak anywhere within that specific life and it's likely that you get parasited to death from one or more skulks)
2. Lerk adrenaline cost changed, basically nerfing the lerk to completely useless. You could fly to a marine flapping twice, shooting some spikes and biting ones and then you sat on the floor next to the marine because you had 0 adrenaline.
3. Marine lmg clip size reduced to 35 meaning if you fight two or more skulks you run out of ammo. But thats no problem, you still got your pistol, right? Wrong! Pistol shooting delay was so high, that the pistol was nearly useless.
4. One pack of mines (15pres) gives 6 mines. We had a hilarious game where we rushed mines and the comm just kept dropping mines. In the end the whole map was mined and the aliens couldn't move anywhere. (I was standing in our base getting kill after kill just because some skulk jumoed on one of my 100 mines on the map)
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with modded servers or even high slot servers (although I don't like to play on them and personally think it's not the way the game should be played, but that is just my kind of taste). But in my opinion the higher number of servers should be <20 slot servers without weird balance chaning mods, so that new players learn how this game really plays. In my opinion high playercount servers and servers with ridiculous mods like described above should be shown in a different way. At least with a very serious warning about what the player is gonna experience there or maybe show up in a seperate (experimental/modded/whatever) server browser.
Hahaha I saw you on that server the other night and had a little chuckle to myself.
I had the misfortune of joining some friends on there recently. It's the prime example of what happens when someone with absolutely no idea about the game tries to 'improve' it. Gorges can drop something like 99 clogs & up to 30 hydras, lerks are essentially useless, shotguns have 8 rapid-fire shots, the mine packs you already mentioned... Oh my god.
As a feat of making a hilarious experience, it should be commended. For services to the community, that server should be physically wiped off the face of the planet for the good of humanity.
@the_tick :
If by any chance, the universe would grant everyone the ultimate and delightful pleasure... no; better yet, the exquisite delicacy of : you to just get lost. I'll accept that. You're more a collection of "disagree" than anything else lately. And you thought you could look cool throwing that ? Please step in the wagon of the useless launched on the railroad to oblivion.
Awww, how sad that you think that way, anyways, stop whining now.
I'm still not. I just point out some facts about player base. Those things you obviously don't care. If i was less gentle i would say you deliberately try to kill the game... since a long time.
@SupaFred, everytime i play on your servers(or any other 20/+20 slot one), i eventually get really frustrated that i have to play such small maps that just simply put play horribly with so many people, rounds are decided by who has the least experiences players instead of actual teamplay. The vanilla game and more importantly lifeform/tech is balanced at 6v6 - 8v8 at the most, not at 10v10 and higher. You want to keep using such high slot sizes, please start using modifications that don't make the gameplay as gruesome for every veteran in the scene.
You and possibly others as well(i dont remember all the posts by heart now in this topic), are mistaking bad performance servers with, game balance effects. Most of the servers, in EU at least are run on good hardware, it runs as good as i can, of course they could run better with the smaller lot sizes, but really due to the fact we are not able to play with 0-10 ping, as we could in other games the problems we face are exponental as a result, and we can only really affect how the game plays out, and that is why huge slot sizes are 'bad'.
I'd rather have more lower slot sized servers, than a few with +20. Give the people more options to play on, as you can probaly understand that most of us don't really want to play on Russia servers as an example.
But as closing, it is the responsibility of server admins to provide good gaming experience, and as such i feel they should be pushing towards balanced gameplay rather than trying to please people who have no idea how the game works.
I don't want to use modifications that affects balance (except for maybe a mod that nerfs GL damage against lifeforms) because I don't think I would be able to get it right. I'm afraid that if I change something then I have to change something else to compensate and then we end up with 99 mines or something. I'm sorry to hear that you find the gameplay gruesome on larger servers. The easiest solution might simply be for you to play on smaller servers?
I am not mistaking server performance with client performance. I am just saying that as long as the server can handle the load it's up to the player to decide if it's a good experience.
If you want more options then you will be happy to hear that since I did that survey I mentioned earlier I have been testing different server configurations and I currently run five servers with 16, 18, 20, 22 and 24 player slots respectively.
In my country we have a custom. We still talk even to peasant and troll like yourself. Don't fool yourself everybody knows you're a troll since a long time. We (in my country) do still talk because there is something universal that comes along. It's a life matter, something like that. I followed my customs as long as i was doing it for you.
In my country we have a custom. We still talk even to peasant and troll like yourself. Don't fool yourself everybody knows you're a troll since a long time. We (in my country) do still talk because there is something universal that comes along. It's a life matter, something like that. I followed my customs as long as i was doing it for you.
You can see how many servers are full, how big they are, how full they have been. Do you know what suprises me? Most people play on large servers, Not because they don't have a choice, But because they find the game with few ppl BORING. And believe me, that is a fact.
Now go away with your hillbilly whining, set up some kind of 12/14 player server and invite the few forum friends that want to play on it. because that is the only way you will be able to populate your server.
(and by the way, you started to troll, check topic history)
@the_tick I suspect that most players sort their browser by number of players (no-one wants to join an empty server, right?). For new players especially, I doubt they'd want to jump into smaller games, as there tends to be anonymity in larger groups - this is true of every online game you'll find.
The bad thing is, they find servers like yours that a) can't handle that many players, b) give them terrible client performance and c) where the admin is likely to kick you just for saying "Ouch, this server is struggling to hold 20 ticks" and/or killing his lerk.
You've also modified the game, so now those people don't even know what vanilla NS2 is actually like.
That is why you get a hard time on here, because frankly what you do for this community is more harm than good.
Comments
However you are correct about this game and some of the effects. IMO, they should have been set to off by default. They may look nice, but they eat fps.
You talk about casual player while i'm talking about first timers.
Facts since 2012:
A SteamSale comes up
Buyers install, go to server browser, get the best server in their opinion (while they know little about the game) and connect. usually they end up on high capacity (slots) servers.
They get obliterated, frustrated and finally disconnect. Eventually never to come back.
Try this exercise/challenge. Try to convince vets player from a 24 slot server to help and teach the rookies that just installed the game. Some have tried as i did. It ends up in bloodshed not because the rookies can't handle this. But veteran just are here for their taste of meat. The best i saw was 6 minutes, then the game goes on...
@Ots : +1
I agree that the spawn limitation (on player leaving (F4) the other team) is more or less bad. I vote for the game to finish like that (teamwork failed on "F4ers team" so be it). Then as it finishes faster, everybody won't wait long before a new one starts. The only issue would be disconnection (accidentally) but in any case, there nothing to do about it. In comp you have "pause" don't worry. It can be an abuse as vote surrender did, but better play more games than no games at all.
There are all example available. It depends on who is on the server, also what timezone there in, etc. I saw players quitting on large server too and have it die. Fast and cheap games aren't the thing in NS2. A resource game is about time.
On my side of the world there is no big issue on server performance. It may be different on other places. Ok fine. That said why throwing tons of "under 20hour players" in this kind of large server ? Well they click on connect but you get the point. They usually ignore the message, click on "don't bother me again" checkbox, then click "OK". They just gonna get frustrated in the end. I don't understand why some large server owner whine about player retention.
I don't say CDT/UWE have to remove/hide items from the server list permanently. Just, let the new comers get used to the game, play with the same kind of player for a while, get the basics, train a little, get comfortable. Having a good start will definitely be better than getting raped. Then they'll go wherever they want. 40 slots server if they like! Eventually, leave if they don't like NS2. At least they got the proper introduction.
My focus is solely on new player and how to make them like and playing the game more. In fact i just count "who has what in the pockets at the end of the story" (Direct French translation). I just wish for them to get a proper and good NS2 experience (discovery). So far, there are some issues.
e.g. personally, i intentionally "fall behind" as it saves me a ton of money for hardware and also games (as they get cheaper over time too). all you need to do is resist the hype long enough to find out which games you still really want to play once their hype wears off. yes, you might miss some pioneering spirit, but older games are also more polished, e.g. i was unable to play ns2 during early stages.
I agree with the options set to default, i remember some games used to have a feature that they would try to override graphical settings inregards to how well the game had run previously. Something like that could be useful.
Stop whining,
The end...
1. Parasite damage increased to 30 and instead of 30 seconds it remains 90 (pretty much meaning that once you got aparasite as marine you can't sneak anywhere within that specific life and it's likely that you get parasited to death from one or more skulks)
2. Lerk adrenaline cost changed, basically nerfing the lerk to completely useless. You could fly to a marine flapping twice, shooting some spikes and biting ones and then you sat on the floor next to the marine because you had 0 adrenaline.
3. Marine lmg clip size reduced to 35 meaning if you fight two or more skulks you run out of ammo. But thats no problem, you still got your pistol, right? Wrong! Pistol shooting delay was so high, that the pistol was nearly useless.
4. One pack of mines (15pres) gives 6 mines. We had a hilarious game where we rushed mines and the comm just kept dropping mines. In the end the whole map was mined and the aliens couldn't move anywhere. (I was standing in our base getting kill after kill just because some skulk jumoed on one of my 100 mines on the map)
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with modded servers or even high slot servers (although I don't like to play on them and personally think it's not the way the game should be played, but that is just my kind of taste). But in my opinion the higher number of servers should be <20 slot servers without weird balance chaning mods, so that new players learn how this game really plays. In my opinion high playercount servers and servers with ridiculous mods like described above should be shown in a different way. At least with a very serious warning about what the player is gonna experience there or maybe show up in a seperate (experimental/modded/whatever) server browser.
I guess we can all agree that the server browser just simply put sucks.
If by any chance, the universe would grant everyone the ultimate and delightful pleasure... no; better yet, the exquisite delicacy of : you to just get lost. I'll accept that. You're more a collection of "disagree" than anything else lately. And you thought you could look cool throwing that ? Please step in the wagon of the useless launched on the railroad to oblivion.
Hahaha I saw you on that server the other night and had a little chuckle to myself.
I had the misfortune of joining some friends on there recently. It's the prime example of what happens when someone with absolutely no idea about the game tries to 'improve' it. Gorges can drop something like 99 clogs & up to 30 hydras, lerks are essentially useless, shotguns have 8 rapid-fire shots, the mine packs you already mentioned... Oh my god.
As a feat of making a hilarious experience, it should be commended. For services to the community, that server should be physically wiped off the face of the planet for the good of humanity.
Awww, how sad that you think that way, anyways, stop whining now.
I don't want to use modifications that affects balance (except for maybe a mod that nerfs GL damage against lifeforms) because I don't think I would be able to get it right. I'm afraid that if I change something then I have to change something else to compensate and then we end up with 99 mines or something.
I am not mistaking server performance with client performance. I am just saying that as long as the server can handle the load it's up to the player to decide if it's a good experience.
If you want more options then you will be happy to hear that since I did that survey I mentioned earlier I have been testing different server configurations and I currently run five servers with 16, 18, 20, 22 and 24 player slots respectively.
LOL
/sarcasm
Yours saddens me
In my country we have a custom. We still talk even to peasant and troll like yourself. Don't fool yourself everybody knows you're a troll since a long time. We (in my country) do still talk because there is something universal that comes along. It's a life matter, something like that. I followed my customs as long as i was doing it for you.
Now you can consider yourself...
I wonder what people prefer, (the players) not the 10 forum donks here, https://www.gametracker.com/search/ns2/ http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/index.php
You can see how many servers are full, how big they are, how full they have been. Do you know what suprises me? Most people play on large servers, Not because they don't have a choice, But because they find the game with few ppl BORING. And believe me, that is a fact.
Now go away with your hillbilly whining, set up some kind of 12/14 player server and invite the few forum friends that want to play on it. because that is the only way you will be able to populate your server.
(and by the way, you started to troll, check topic history)
The bad thing is, they find servers like yours that a) can't handle that many players, b) give them terrible client performance and c) where the admin is likely to kick you just for saying "Ouch, this server is struggling to hold 20 ticks" and/or killing his lerk.
You've also modified the game, so now those people don't even know what vanilla NS2 is actually like.
That is why you get a hard time on here, because frankly what you do for this community is more harm than good.
Closed.