Votekick/Voteban
MoFo1
United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
I'm sure we've all had to put up with them at one time or another. A troll on a server who instead of playing the game, makes it their mission in life to be as annoying/troublesome as possible. Screaming into the mic, spamming text with nonsense, sitting around base for a chance to hop into the hive/chair and blow all the res/recycle the ip's, etc...
Of course in most cases an admin is present and they can be swiftly removed, however what happens when there is no admins online? Well we have to turn to the vote kick feature. Oh but wait, they can instantly rejoin the server (especially with an SSD) and continue their trolling until they are kicked again. In some cases (like a game I played yesterday) they are kicked 20+ times before they FINALLY grow tired of rejoining and give up.
Which brings me to the reason I made this thread... What are the chances of either adding a temporary ban to vote kick, or adding in a vote ban feature? That way when players vote to remove a problematic individual, it would actually keep them out for at least the rest of that game. Yes it has a slight potential to be abused (when enough trolls are in one server) but for the most part I think it would be a welcome addition for those times when an admin isn't online or can't be reached.
Agree or Disagree? Thoughts?
Of course in most cases an admin is present and they can be swiftly removed, however what happens when there is no admins online? Well we have to turn to the vote kick feature. Oh but wait, they can instantly rejoin the server (especially with an SSD) and continue their trolling until they are kicked again. In some cases (like a game I played yesterday) they are kicked 20+ times before they FINALLY grow tired of rejoining and give up.
Which brings me to the reason I made this thread... What are the chances of either adding a temporary ban to vote kick, or adding in a vote ban feature? That way when players vote to remove a problematic individual, it would actually keep them out for at least the rest of that game. Yes it has a slight potential to be abused (when enough trolls are in one server) but for the most part I think it would be a welcome addition for those times when an admin isn't online or can't be reached.
Agree or Disagree? Thoughts?
Comments
I've noticed that on the Trello Board. Excellent idea to make sure trolls cannot come back instantly. Personally, this kind of issue is pretty rare but still exists.
Agreed, that would be awesome too. So many boring people stay near the CC after being ejected and of course, it most of time prevents the player that really wants to command to get access to the chair.
This needs to happen. So many times either a troll or rookie takes the chair after I hop out to defend base or build something and if they get ejected, they just stand there waiting. You can still get access to the chair currently but sometimes it can be hit or miss which can be a huge problem.
"If a server is getting players who are trolling then contact that server owner. If it's official servers you can contact me or Hugh.
Like ANY multiplayer game with community ran servers it is entirely up to those server owners to do something about it - not game developers."
"Take this issue for instance.. what is your solution beyond a better votekick? Anything you'd suggest wouldn't work because there are no resources available to dedicate to NS2 development, let alone micro issues like individual users. As a customer you just want things to work and probably don't understand why you can't post info about a bad user to be handled"
So if you want to get something done, contact a server owner is his suggestion. Track down the server owner, plead your case, and show some evidence that you've surely gathered, right? Waste of time and completely illogical.
Votekick then if the player rejoins within 15 minutes its a voteban option. make it 75% yes to pass.
But there should be no perma-ban when it's a votekick.
Change the designation then.
The first kick should be a simple kick as Decoy has mentioned. And if that guy keeps joining and trolling the server, the second kick should ban 10-15 minutes.
You cannot create a voteban anyway if you want to make sure nobody in your server is going to abuse with that. So let's modify the current votekick.
The need for this emerges from a low number of instances, yet even now there's abuse and random calling of the votekick just as much as there's trolling.
It doesn't really help create a friendly atmosphere either.
There's a need to come up with better ideas to solve the problem.
A smart voteban. It needs all the advantages without all of the disadvantages.
Can voteban be a double vote, meaning the first confirms intention (with some sort of anti random calling mechanism) and the second is one where every positive vote adds 5 minutes to the ban?
Can you use the hive skill data to determine someone's vote calling/voting worthyness?
Can there be a database of how many times someone was votekicked?
Back in the days, chat output of a server was routed into an IRC channel and there admins had their clients sound an alarm when certain words were typed, such as "admin" or "troll".
That still leaves the mini trolls where votekick/ban never succeed. Thought they are usually well known by the respective administrators.
Please don't hide a voteban behind votekick. It needs to be clear as day that you are voting to ban someone.
That being said, the effect of a full/popular server where someone getting kicked is instantly (or on the second try!) replaced by another person trying to get a slot is quite powerful.
First they get 15+ yes votes slapped in their face, then cannot rejoin because their slot got taken.
It's like a temp ban but not issued by a single person where the offender can be mad at the admin. Instead the offender is moved to actually re-evaluate their actions.
It'd be nice if we can take as much negativity out of votekick/ban as possible, while having it still be a harsh weapon precisely when it's needed.
Also, there needs to be a better way to identify players on the vote kick menu. A while ago, some guy was trolling, AND changing his name to other people's name. In the vote kick menu, those names show up exactly the same, and we don't know who to kick. Show their steam name on the votekick menu if they have changed their names in the middle of a round.
A while ago it was still possible to make names visibly the same, as some chars were hidden. That's fixed afaik.
QFT. /thread
Nice job taking sentences out of context to serve your post, as well as not posting your own words or the multiple reasons why your thread was closed, or even the part where I said
"I do agree however that votekick is useless. There is something that is in the works to address this. Similar to the examples you gave."
OR Most importantly when this occurred : That was my response before the CDT was formed - when we actually didn't have resources do develop NS2.
So why are you bringing it up now exactly like it's relevant?... I am assuming it's a disgruntled attempt at denigration, so cease your attempt at derailing a thread with a personal issue you have. (Angry at me because UWE did not have resources at the time to develop a certain feature you wanted..)
You were warned.
A lot of admins will just ban or kick you without warning, anyway.
Votekick should NOT have a ban entailed. EVER. If you want someone out for several games, use voteban. urgh.
Keeps it simple w/ vote kicks as only the only necessary vote and ban takes effect automatically if repeat offenders are detected.
Similar to @Decoy's idea, but the first 2 kicks do not carry a ban, however the 3rd kick is a more severe ban.
The same people that vote-kicked them will revote if the person rejoins, usually. So it'd just force people to vote a bunch of times to get a ban.
If you want a vote-ban then avoid sugar-coating it.
Either way, I see people banning others because they simply...can. if this goes on the trello list and moves to an update... well, I see nothing good of it. There are admins for a reason...
I have found it to be far more effective to let everything minor slip. Someone wants to spectate on a full server, LET HIM. He'll leave or join up eventually. Someone wants to bite a wall, LET HIM. Once a marine passes he is likely to stop and bite the marine, passively getting involved back into the game and forgetting about biting the wall. You've just turned a troll into a normal player.
If a kidmin warns and pushes him around, negative thoughts emerge.
Sorry, just wanted to get this out there because it is a real problem in NS2: Restrictive server settings and kidmins.
Regarding the voteban, agreed with Rapgod. In general the (non-adolescent) server operators are a much better judge for a temp ban than a crowd of players. However it's a fact that even they need sleep and have a life, well most of them.. and won't always be around. Letting those really bad trolls have their way is no good.
Random shower thought: Someone who massively disrupts the game and empties servers... if it's a cheater they get VAC banned by steam globally. So a troll that effectively does the same damage, may need to be dealt with in a similar global manner ?
It's a really bad idea. It has already been stated in the messages above but adding a voteban on the vanilla game cannot be a good thing. There are already people abusing with the votekick. Remember the ton of people that vote F1 just 'cause this is a vote, those that don't care and so vote F1/F2 randomly. + if there are people not so smart that have no idea what's happening on the server and decide to vote YES. It is already obvious to find out plenty of abuses from players with the votekick, quite rare of course but that's definitely why a voteban is going to be worse.
I think this is the reason UWE didn't allow voteban on the servers. I suppose the admins can if needed disable this option (like the other votes) or even fit the time/delay that occurs after being banned through that vote. But let's be honest, people will abuse of this, depending of the community or the servers I guess.
There's no good solution in my opinion, people can abuse using votekick (if a ban delay is added) and voteban. That's why votekick is the perfect option 'cause even if it was a mistake, it was a troll from the one who started the vote, that said guy can join again the server though. But if I have to choose, be sure the votekick changes are really better regarding the various abuses with that voteban.
I never said I wanted a vote ban. And yes, I said enough vote kicks should equal a ban that's not just a slap on the wrist like 15 min. It would indeed force people to vote a few times, that's the whole point. I'd rather do it 3 times than like 20 over and over.
The other day I was on a server, this troll was getting kicked CONSTANTLY and rejoining over and over. Everybody else on the server was playing legit and there wasn't a time the vote didn't pass. Had to have been at least 10+ kicks. If this were in effect, we wouldn't have to vote ban him. Just kick him 3 times, and he cant come back for a day or 2. He's done it to himself really. There's other servers he can go mess with. Seems fair to me.
To abuse someone into ban in this way would really take a whole server full of trolls/idiots to revote to kick successfully 3 times. Wouldn't be "just because they simply can" in this manner because it would take time, and by the 2nd kick, if the victim has a brain, and wants to actually play (i.e. serious player w/ different opinions who enflames team and gets kicked) he won't go back to the server where he's not welcome, he'd find another. Not extraordinarily simple IMO, unless the player is actually a troll, in which case, it should be an easy decision for the rest of the server.
I see far less potential for abuse this way.
i still dislike the whole votekick bans people though (on account i've been votekicked for un-things, before)
There are voteban systems in other games, too. It's not like this is a unique thing. If anything, it's kind of strange that NS2 doesn't have it. Basically it's just a deterrent for trolling players. I think that doing a 24-48 hour ban on a player after three kicks is way too far. 24-48 hours is a long time. It's also way more difficult and much more of a pain for players to have to pass three votes and explain three times why this player needs kicked. It's much cleaner and easier for everyone to just have a short ban vote.
Most trolls, if they get banned for 30 minutes, will move on and find a new server to play on. Unlike now where they can just rejoin repeatedly. However, if a player gets mistakenly votebanned, it's not a huge deal - they can come back to the server later if they so desire.
I appreciate the arguments here though - it's raising some good points. Keep it up!