But in that regard, ns2 combat MOD is still there and ready for grabs with ns2 vanilla.
You are not making sense.
You say ns2 is NS2 SA COmbat competitor.
Then you say (in our hypothesis) that MvM would be MvM mod competitor.
But NS2 is not the same as combat in both genre and gameplay. MvM technicly would. Apples and oranges, you are not making fair comparisions.
And NS2 Combat mod vs NS2 SA Combat I would argue SA COmbat is vastly superior still.
Let me unpack what it is I mean.
MvM MOD gives value to NS2, and NS2 gives value to MvM MOD.
Combat MOD gives value to NS2, and Ns2 gives value to Combat MOD.
You may view SA Combat as Combat MODS competitor if you wish, provided that you add the value that NS2 gives.
This value is of course subjective - to a player that does not wish to play vanilla NS2, SA combat is perhaps the better choice, as the value of NS2 would be zero in this case.
But this value you cannot simply ignore, when you compare SA to the MOD as a consumer.
Edit: So, if you wish to release a SA of your mod. You need to make sure that the SA exceeds the value of the mod and the implied value that the original game provides, or adjust the price of your SA accordingly.
@SantaClaws you do realise that both the combat SA as well as the release date ware calls made by UWE. At least according to the OP and Rusty.
First of all. I do not see the relevance quite frankly. But I'll answer your question anyway.
Surely FLG are the authors of their own decisions. Surely they had the choice to turn down UWE's offer to make combat SA in the first place. They took the gamble, that's on FLG.
As for the release date. All I can say towards the unsuccessful launch of the SA, is that it is a demonstration of the poor presentation of the game.
If we agree for the sake of argument, that the b270 patch was truly a main factor in the poor launch of SA combat. - Then that simply means, that SA combat was not able to compete with NS2.
While some of the fault may lie with UWE, it is certainly FLG's responsibility, to launch a product able to compete on the market, not UWE.
Do not forget, launching on halloween can be a smart move, but you're not just competing with NS2 on halloween, you're competing with all the other titles that have flashy new updates and releases and dlc's. So even if b270 was released the week after or what ever, SA combat is still in an extremely competitive market.
The fact of the matter is. SA combat is a mediocre product, in a very competitive market.
@SantaClaws I'm not going to argue because I've already said what I had to say. You want to lay the blame on the developer and absolve the publisher of any responsibility, so be it. I have a different view but in the end it just comes down to opinion. I feel Faultline have been left out to dry and I'll stand up for the little guy because UWE are big boys now and can handle some responsibility.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2014
Heh, I read that last sentence as "SA combat is a competitive product, in a very mediocre market."
Also it's not a mediocre product, it's actually quite polished. But also a very niche game mode, based on an already niche game. Which is not clear to outsiders why it is a standalone game as it simply looks too much like NS2. Seeking out TB was a good idea to get the word out on your game, but his first impression series can backfire for games with such a huge learning curve and skillgap issues.
Remember "WTF is...?" isn't a review platform, instead he goes in with a bit of information about the devs and what the game is about and tells it the way it is and how he experiences the game first hand. The fact is a new player stumbling into pro land will get murdered and as a result not have a very entertaining time as shown in the video. My guess is that it would've been better to seek out other "big" YouTubers who do a more analytic review series. But of the top of my head, I mostly see "WTF is...?" likes. And let's face it, TB is probably the first that springs to mind for placing a spotlight on indie games, in terms of view count and subs...
Youtubers, with somewhat better FPS skills (no diss to TB :P) and also have done NS2 stuff. Would've probably been a better choice for promotional purposes. Like GaLmHD, Northernlion
But even this doesn't do away with the huge skill cap issues and I'm not sure how they could even attempt to fix this due to aliens being very hard to learn when being dominated by players of similar skill on the marine team. The bane of asymmetrical games with aliens that are quite alien to get used to, I guess?
does XP gained from killing skulks fall off as marines level up. I.E. A level 10 marine gaines less Xp from killing a level 1 skulk than a level 10 skulk?
His point of being useless makes sense to me. I shouldn't HAVE to upgrade to a lerk, fade, onos, etc to stay combat relevant.
Skulks can definitely be relevant in late game combat scenarios if you get leap and tons of upgrades. They're better than most at killing exos and with leap JPs aren't that big of an issue. Get close enough to a GL or FT marine and he won't be able to do much. Might be hard to beat shotguns, but just like with any game you have to learn to pick your targets. Xenocide can also be a valuable support ability. Their late game viability is definitely hurt by the removal of RTs but they can still be useful
Skulks can definitely be relevant in late game combat scenarios if you get leap and tons of upgrades. They're better than most at killing exos and with leap JPs aren't that big of an issue. Get close enough to a GL or FT marine and he won't be able to do much. Might be hard to beat shotguns, but just like with any game you have to learn to pick your targets. Xenocide can also be a valuable support ability. Their late game viability is definitely hurt by the removal of RTs but they can still be useful
Get some Ink and Vengeance on Skulky. That stuff is made for trolling
Update from faultlinegames: New weapon coming december
I hate to copy @dePARA here and be cynical. But I can't wait for the forums to blow up again with comments like "UWE took the thunder from FLG AGAIN with their holiday sale - Those bastards!!".
Weapon additions are great for the people who still play and enjoy the game. But it will not bring any new blood. What MAY bring new people in, would be interesting new game modes, like capture the flag or some shit.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2014
Not sure why Faultline Games would waste any development hours on Combat at this point. Escape! Create something small and new! There's no profit to be had here.
The player base is small, mainly due to nobody knowing about the game (FLG is finally doing some advertising), but if you do play and enjoy combat, what would you like to see in the update?
Comments
Let me unpack what it is I mean.
MvM MOD gives value to NS2, and NS2 gives value to MvM MOD.
Combat MOD gives value to NS2, and Ns2 gives value to Combat MOD.
You may view SA Combat as Combat MODS competitor if you wish, provided that you add the value that NS2 gives.
This value is of course subjective - to a player that does not wish to play vanilla NS2, SA combat is perhaps the better choice, as the value of NS2 would be zero in this case.
But this value you cannot simply ignore, when you compare SA to the MOD as a consumer.
Edit: So, if you wish to release a SA of your mod. You need to make sure that the SA exceeds the value of the mod and the implied value that the original game provides, or adjust the price of your SA accordingly.
I'd maintain, that NS2:C does not do this.
While this is true, ultimate responsibility for a product still falls upon the developer. They're the ones taking the bad press for this, not UWE.
First of all. I do not see the relevance quite frankly. But I'll answer your question anyway.
Surely FLG are the authors of their own decisions. Surely they had the choice to turn down UWE's offer to make combat SA in the first place. They took the gamble, that's on FLG.
As for the release date. All I can say towards the unsuccessful launch of the SA, is that it is a demonstration of the poor presentation of the game.
If we agree for the sake of argument, that the b270 patch was truly a main factor in the poor launch of SA combat. - Then that simply means, that SA combat was not able to compete with NS2.
While some of the fault may lie with UWE, it is certainly FLG's responsibility, to launch a product able to compete on the market, not UWE.
Do not forget, launching on halloween can be a smart move, but you're not just competing with NS2 on halloween, you're competing with all the other titles that have flashy new updates and releases and dlc's. So even if b270 was released the week after or what ever, SA combat is still in an extremely competitive market.
The fact of the matter is. SA combat is a mediocre product, in a very competitive market.
Also it's not a mediocre product, it's actually quite polished. But also a very niche game mode, based on an already niche game. Which is not clear to outsiders why it is a standalone game as it simply looks too much like NS2. Seeking out TB was a good idea to get the word out on your game, but his first impression series can backfire for games with such a huge learning curve and skillgap issues.
Remember "WTF is...?" isn't a review platform, instead he goes in with a bit of information about the devs and what the game is about and tells it the way it is and how he experiences the game first hand. The fact is a new player stumbling into pro land will get murdered and as a result not have a very entertaining time as shown in the video. My guess is that it would've been better to seek out other "big" YouTubers who do a more analytic review series. But of the top of my head, I mostly see "WTF is...?" likes. And let's face it, TB is probably the first that springs to mind for placing a spotlight on indie games, in terms of view count and subs...
Youtubers, with somewhat better FPS skills (no diss to TB :P) and also have done NS2 stuff. Would've probably been a better choice for promotional purposes. Like GaLmHD, Northernlion
Or for the funnies seeing newbies having fun with a good dose of humor, Criken2, FRANKIEonPCin1080p
But even this doesn't do away with the huge skill cap issues and I'm not sure how they could even attempt to fix this due to aliens being very hard to learn when being dominated by players of similar skill on the marine team. The bane of asymmetrical games with aliens that are quite alien to get used to, I guess?
His point of being useless makes sense to me. I shouldn't HAVE to upgrade to a lerk, fade, onos, etc to stay combat relevant.
Damn yanks.
Get some Ink and Vengeance on Skulky. That stuff is made for trolling
Im sure this is going raise the average playerbase from 18 to 20. congrats.
I hate to copy @dePARA here and be cynical. But I can't wait for the forums to blow up again with comments like "UWE took the thunder from FLG AGAIN with their holiday sale - Those bastards!!".
Weapon additions are great for the people who still play and enjoy the game. But it will not bring any new blood. What MAY bring new people in, would be interesting new game modes, like capture the flag or some shit.
Some servers have a mod with the lmg skin.
But the LMG is a little bit different than the NS2 one.
It has more spread and should be better in close combat (in theory)