As long as the Shadow tier stays just as black armor stays. Taking a small part of the Shadow tier for resale..okay by me. Why is it that current Shadow tier 'supporters' are being "...emailed a complimentary Steam key for the Reinforcement Pack", if it contains the same stuff we received in the $75 Shadow tier? To give as a gift maybe?
As one who have supported the reinforcement program. Then I don't care about the skins. And I think it would be great to make a DLC like reaper.
In regards to the future of NS2. Then I would in generally like to see improvements. But they are coming thanks to the CDT team.
Beyond that I would like to see an expansion of the franchise. Natural Selection can be so much more than just a stand alone game based on a mod. So far NS2 is a great FPS game. But I would like to see the game evolve into a franchise with several games in the same universe. Along with history and stories. Just as warhammer, halo and warcraft.
Also, don't forget Gorge plushies.
I think this is a good idea, but you need to give the new DLC reinforcement pack a badge of some kind. Maybe use the blue one? People want to show-off in game on the scoreboard that they have paid for DLC.
DLC, especially the fluff kind, is the death of this industry. Profit over pleasure is the new mantra, and I know I'm not the only one completely done with it. Even something minor like this creates the feeling for a new player that one can't buy a game and get the entire experience, one must shell out even more money. And for those there since the beginning, it seems like begging more nickels and dimes at best.
If you stop the program, just end it.
I see you disagreed with me, I am assuming based on my support of it as DLC.
I agree with your sentiment about dlc for new content like a new gamemode. This is a skin though. You are not missing out on anything if you don't have it. If you do have it, you don't even get to see it. You can experience it if other people have it, but most already do. What experience are you missing out on?
If this goes to DLC I don't see it making much money. A good portion of the active player base already has the shadow skins. The benefit I see for this going to a steam DLC is for it to be visible. New players, yes the few who join us, if they wanted shadow skins they can't easily find them in their current place.
As a steam dlc it becomes more visible, hopefully bringing in some nickels and dimes. Nickels and dimes to support ns2 is a lot more than nothing.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I don't feel the need to keep any of it exclusive. Sell all of them.
I paid to support the game's development, and if selling all of those assets in a more streamlined way will help the game's development, that's entirely in the spirit of my original contribution.
As a 75$ tier owner, why do the babbler icons have to go exclusive again? I really liked them. I feel like my babbler per dollar ratio has not been met :P
Seriously though, I'm all for this. It's a well thought out idea and it's nice for people to have access to some minor shadow content at a big discount. I just wonder why the babbler icons have to go along with the RP program, you know? Why not just keep it up for any new-found, deep-pocketed veterans.
DLC, especially the fluff kind, is the death of this industry. Profit over pleasure is the new mantra, and I know I'm not the only one completely done with it. Even something minor like this creates the feeling for a new player that one can't buy a game and get the entire experience, one must shell out even more money. And for those there since the beginning, it seems like begging more nickels and dimes at best.
If you stop the program, just end it.
Cosmetic enhancements or adjustments, which is what the NS2 DLC have primarily been, do not change the base gameplay. Everything you enjoy in NS2, the gameplay, the maps – they are all included free with the base game. Having micro transactions or DLC with cosmetics is what keeps communities and games (especially multiplayer ones) alive – to say they are the death of the industry is a bit of an over-reaction.
I want the CDT to have the chance to try things. I want them to have the opportunity to make more decisions, both good and bad. I want them to have the ability to break things, change things, improve things, and learn things. Over time I am confident that the accumulation of ideas and decisions that CDT makes could yield changes to NS2 that help it live into 2015, 2016, and beyond.
For this to happen, UWE needs to remain involved in NS2. We need to continue to be the conduit through which updates make it to Steam, provide occasional technical advice, set up and maintain financial systems for initiatives like Kodiak, Reaper, and more, provide baseline funding for big events, act as adjudicator of last resort in community disputes, offer our social media and marketing assets, and shoulder the risk of customer service issues when things go wrong.
In short, yes I am happy for this DLC to exist if it is a means tidying up shop and offering continued UWE support. There are several questions which are raised by this though:
1. Will this DLC be as successful as the other packs?
- Given that the content available in this DLC pack is reduced and has been available for some time now – I don’t forsee this pack having many sales at all. It should be sold with this assumption from the get-go, and shouldn’t be considered indicative of the performance of NS2 DLC content.
2. How will the funds of a Reinforced Pack be divvied up?
- Will all of the funds from this pack go directly to UWE or will CDT receive a percentage of it?
3. Is the renewed interest in NS2’s longevity by UWE due to the sales of the reaper pack? How successful was it, and is it indicative that future cosmetic DLC can help sustain player numbers and the community?
In my mind – this is a crossroads for NS2. Decisions need to be made by UWE and the CDT to decide what they want the future of NS2 to be. First and foremost – is the intent of these future DLC packs allowing experimentation to occur to increase the player base of the game, or is it to sustain the current player base on life support until people move on?
The current competitive scene for NS2 is not going to last much longer without some sort of new influx of players or specific content/improvements that will be enticing to keep players in the game. The public scene will linger around until the next big game like overwatch or evolve comes around, at which point the player base will diminish even more than it has now.
In this light, I would rather UWE/CDT experiment by setting up new DLC initiatives that directly goes towards building the future of NS2. That is – money for the following:
• General Cosmetic skin packs that support community artists like Rantology and CDT/UWE via 50/50 split (or there abouts)
• New reinforced type DLC that offers a few new skins for player models for both marine and aliens that works towards a very specific goal like increasing performance. Eg the “Performance Pack” – big skin pack that offers avenue for players to directly help get performance increases into the game via things like rewrite of the LUA code into C++ and other means etc.
• Implementation of ingame store to buy said DLC/micro transactions from – this is to work in tandem with the planned main menu revamp.
But then again, it may be better to take NS2 off life-support and do a reboot of the franchise with NS3 down the line, which launches with a greater potential to keep a healthy player base from the get-go. If the mistakes from NS2 can be learned from and systems/features implemented properly with an adequate marketing budget, the future of the NS franchise could be quite bright.
Sounds like a good idea, but does this mean there won't be shadow badges/gorge skins for the people who donated anymore? If you have to remove my shadow perks, I understand
Woops, to clarify, under this propsal all existing perks would absolutely be maintained. No one would lose abything at all.
Why not retire the reinforcement program...period. Don't take content from the Shadow tier. Instead, make new content for your DLC. I could care less to have the content (free) from the new DLC if it contains that which I already have. Instead, start a fresh DLC that I would actually like to buy and further support the game. It appears there nothing at all new for current reinforcement supporters and everything to gain from this new and very CHEAP DLC for new customers. Further, why is one of the 'most played' skins (Shadow skulk) being taken from "my Shadow skins" and bundled into a DLC for 7 bucks? Everyone running around with Shadow skulk skins now...even folks with 2hrs gameplay. I remember seeing a Shadow skulk running the corridor and somewhat "fearing" what might happen to me. Not anymore! It's Joe Bob Noob running straight at me sporting my shadow skulk skin. It's akin to..."sweet, I just picked up this game and I have black armor like many of the play testers & premier guys have. Bottom line: Shadow skulks are special as well as the rest of the Shadow tier. Make new content for me and for those who have yet to buy the game.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
I'm fine with having the shadow tier being split up, but if it is successful and more shadow edition content is created then it would be nice if shadow tier and above owners could get them as part of currently standing program. All you'd need to do is update the dlc to include them. (aka shadow fade/onos)
Though I doubt there will be much revenue change without the game going f2p.
I'd suggest just retiring the Shadow tier skins and working on something new. Rehashing old stuff isn't going to pull in numbers. You need a different approach.
Also, look to supporting community created content. Split profits with the community creators and work to make awesome things that capture the feel of NS2 but also give a bit of variety. CS:GO and TF2 have all these things, but NS2 is sorely lacking it.
I also hope you guys would eventually release the shadow onos / fade for the people who bought the badge. I believe some people from CDT actually promised that they'd be released at some point.
Not that it's a big deal anyways, the proposed suggestion is fine as it is.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
The full set of alien would have been an option. But that would have cost money. Existing shadow tier owners would have gotten it for free of course. So to generate so income, a dlc would have been needed, that dlc had to include all alien skins, for cheaper than 75$. On a personal level i would have been fine myself wih an alien skinpack on steam in that pricerange. Unlike black armor, no exclusivity was ever promised on the shadow skins.
that said, i voiced my opinion a few times because i believe that some people would have a big problem with the idea that somebody could buy the skins they have for 6$ instead of 75$. The badge and other stuff would have stayed exclusive, but some people might still get angry. So in that scenario there doesnt seem to be a viable way to do shadow fade and onos.
i dont speak for the cdt, but maybe that gives you some insight.
Though I doubt there will be much revenue change without the game going f2p.
Go for it and NOW . Then new deal in Christmas with classic pack ... the long waited f2p with server variable option sv_skins false/true. I don't know but there is hard times inc (already is, you can look ensl site), evolve from Left 4 Dead creators & overwatch from blizzard...
I bought the Shadow tier and I have no problem even if you guys release all the skins for free for regular users. I mostly bought the tier to help the developpers, and I can care less if what I bought $75 is now $6 or $0. We knew this would happen eventually so... it there even a problem here?
Now if you devs wanna make money from this, and sell all the tiers for a low price, why not. $6 sounds good enough to me. Either way, I have no problem. At all. Look, these skins exists, they were made so it would be a waste to either not release them for everyone, or make everyone pay too much.
I consider it's like Killing Floor DLCs skins. They are first expensive for novelty, and then they end up costing nothing. Just releasing everything for free would be I'd be doing.
I played NS since NS1 on Half Life 1. I bought NS2 for me and my brother. I think I bought some expansion, with the special marine skin and stuff. Let me make that clear, I think I bought it, I'm not fully sure if I did buy that. I'm kinda sure though. Love the game, NS1 and NS2. Love the work you put into it.
I want to state this. If you release official DLCs on steam, I will buy them, with money. I'd buy micropayment stuff. I'd buy lvl boosters, bonus skins, that kind of stuff.
What I would like is this: some kind of coop version. Left 4 Dead variety, whatever. Something that lets me and other pals or pugs play against some bots. Four marines vs a swarm of aliens, or 4 aliens vs a swarm of marines, whatever. I would pay full price for this. I can't speak for anyone else, only myself. But I speak for myself when I say I would absolutely pay more money for this.
For the work you already did, you guys deserve a lot of money. I think you guys don't get a lot of money because you don't exploit the modern moneymaking techniques (hat fortress exploitation stuff, micropayment things, lvling up, etc).
as a special edition supporter you have my support to go one up and release a reinforcement pack with the black ops marine model, a different black ops texture skin, completely new shoulder pad, shadow skulk and expanded soundtrack. an alternate rifle model (from ns2 combat).
. stealth (shadow) marine (reskinned black ops)
. standard shoulder decal
. shadow skulk
. ns1 rifle
. expanded soundtrack.
Realy good idea! Im not even using my shadow skulk model. Pr0 knows that thay should hit it first! more ppl should be able to use thouse great looking models.
I've been a supporter for an amazing percentage of my life now. Anything you make I will buy. But I would like to see it made as easy as possible for new players to enjoy the game and enhance their experience through $1-$10 add-ons. The Reaper Style packs seem perfect to me. For less than $10 I can get cool stuff, show support and keep NS development going. So if those packs keep coming I will keep buying(and hopefully a lot of others will too).
But here's a thought; Name the patch that you are working on and get us to pre-fund it with pre-orders. i.e. - "Blue Steel Patch 278 is coming, pre-order now to help us do X, X, X to NS2 and get the new Blue Steel skins for the low price of $5. Or wait till the patch is released and get the skins for $10"
That way you front load the cash and give people a pretty nice benefit for early support. But those that come in later can still get the cool stuff if they would like. If you can net at least 20,000 early takers then you have $100k to work with and hopefully another $50-100k will come in after the release through people buying the "premium patch DLC".
But I'm supportive no matter which way it goes. THANKS FOR A GREAT GAME!!! /Epic
I've bought the deluxe edition, support the RP and even NS2 Combat to support the modders. But I have never told you how much I love the game.
NS2 is clearly one of my favorite game of all time, and it is still the case 2 years after the release. You have done such an amazing job, the community has done the rest and gave me tons of awesome moments.
NS2 is difficult, but has so much depth, so much fun and even with 149 hours on steam I have still so much to learn... Yeah i'm still a noob. UW I really wanna thank you.
For your concern about a DLC RP it's totally fine for me. After all, I and I'm sure many people trough the RP wanted to help you, to thank you. So what's the matter ?
If there is other people on steam directly that want to do the same, great !
The community of NS2 is great because she's welcoming and helpful, even during the Free weekend .
Let's welcome steam players that want to help UW.
Many thanks and best of luck for your new game.
By a french student, sorry for all the mistake i could have done.
I´m also support with the Shadow-Tier and play since the early NS1 days. I dont pay 75€ for the shoulderads or the shadowskulk but rather to support you an the Game and as a little "Thank you" for hundreds and hundrets hours of fun playing NS1+2. In my oppinion the Skins (Black Armor, Shoulder Pads & Shadowlifeforms) are a sign for even this core-player believe in this Project as noone else did. The DLC looks okay for me in consideration of the fact. Just make the best for you and the game, i trust you in this case.
I think its fine, just one thing why is there no shadow fade/onos and why is this not a perfect chance to add them, I mean id buy the shadow pack on steam just to complete the set
Comments
In regards to the future of NS2. Then I would in generally like to see improvements. But they are coming thanks to the CDT team.
Beyond that I would like to see an expansion of the franchise. Natural Selection can be so much more than just a stand alone game based on a mod. So far NS2 is a great FPS game. But I would like to see the game evolve into a franchise with several games in the same universe. Along with history and stories. Just as warhammer, halo and warcraft.
Also, don't forget Gorge plushies.
I see you disagreed with me, I am assuming based on my support of it as DLC.
I agree with your sentiment about dlc for new content like a new gamemode. This is a skin though. You are not missing out on anything if you don't have it. If you do have it, you don't even get to see it. You can experience it if other people have it, but most already do. What experience are you missing out on?
If this goes to DLC I don't see it making much money. A good portion of the active player base already has the shadow skins. The benefit I see for this going to a steam DLC is for it to be visible. New players, yes the few who join us, if they wanted shadow skins they can't easily find them in their current place.
As a steam dlc it becomes more visible, hopefully bringing in some nickels and dimes. Nickels and dimes to support ns2 is a lot more than nothing.
I paid to support the game's development, and if selling all of those assets in a more streamlined way will help the game's development, that's entirely in the spirit of my original contribution.
Seriously though, I'm all for this. It's a well thought out idea and it's nice for people to have access to some minor shadow content at a big discount. I just wonder why the babbler icons have to go along with the RP program, you know? Why not just keep it up for any new-found, deep-pocketed veterans.
Cosmetic enhancements or adjustments, which is what the NS2 DLC have primarily been, do not change the base gameplay. Everything you enjoy in NS2, the gameplay, the maps – they are all included free with the base game. Having micro transactions or DLC with cosmetics is what keeps communities and games (especially multiplayer ones) alive – to say they are the death of the industry is a bit of an over-reaction.
In short, yes I am happy for this DLC to exist if it is a means tidying up shop and offering continued UWE support. There are several questions which are raised by this though:
1. Will this DLC be as successful as the other packs?
- Given that the content available in this DLC pack is reduced and has been available for some time now – I don’t forsee this pack having many sales at all. It should be sold with this assumption from the get-go, and shouldn’t be considered indicative of the performance of NS2 DLC content.
2. How will the funds of a Reinforced Pack be divvied up?
- Will all of the funds from this pack go directly to UWE or will CDT receive a percentage of it?
3. Is the renewed interest in NS2’s longevity by UWE due to the sales of the reaper pack? How successful was it, and is it indicative that future cosmetic DLC can help sustain player numbers and the community?
In my mind – this is a crossroads for NS2. Decisions need to be made by UWE and the CDT to decide what they want the future of NS2 to be. First and foremost – is the intent of these future DLC packs allowing experimentation to occur to increase the player base of the game, or is it to sustain the current player base on life support until people move on?
The current competitive scene for NS2 is not going to last much longer without some sort of new influx of players or specific content/improvements that will be enticing to keep players in the game. The public scene will linger around until the next big game like overwatch or evolve comes around, at which point the player base will diminish even more than it has now.
In this light, I would rather UWE/CDT experiment by setting up new DLC initiatives that directly goes towards building the future of NS2. That is – money for the following:
• General Cosmetic skin packs that support community artists like Rantology and CDT/UWE via 50/50 split (or there abouts)
• New reinforced type DLC that offers a few new skins for player models for both marine and aliens that works towards a very specific goal like increasing performance. Eg the “Performance Pack” – big skin pack that offers avenue for players to directly help get performance increases into the game via things like rewrite of the LUA code into C++ and other means etc.
• Implementation of ingame store to buy said DLC/micro transactions from – this is to work in tandem with the planned main menu revamp.
But then again, it may be better to take NS2 off life-support and do a reboot of the franchise with NS3 down the line, which launches with a greater potential to keep a healthy player base from the get-go. If the mistakes from NS2 can be learned from and systems/features implemented properly with an adequate marketing budget, the future of the NS franchise could be quite bright.
Woops, to clarify, under this propsal all existing perks would absolutely be maintained. No one would lose abything at all.
Why not retire the reinforcement program...period. Don't take content from the Shadow tier. Instead, make new content for your DLC. I could care less to have the content (free) from the new DLC if it contains that which I already have. Instead, start a fresh DLC that I would actually like to buy and further support the game. It appears there nothing at all new for current reinforcement supporters and everything to gain from this new and very CHEAP DLC for new customers. Further, why is one of the 'most played' skins (Shadow skulk) being taken from "my Shadow skins" and bundled into a DLC for 7 bucks? Everyone running around with Shadow skulk skins now...even folks with 2hrs gameplay. I remember seeing a Shadow skulk running the corridor and somewhat "fearing" what might happen to me. Not anymore! It's Joe Bob Noob running straight at me sporting my shadow skulk skin. It's akin to..."sweet, I just picked up this game and I have black armor like many of the play testers & premier guys have. Bottom line: Shadow skulks are special as well as the rest of the Shadow tier. Make new content for me and for those who have yet to buy the game.
Though I doubt there will be much revenue change without the game going f2p.
Also, look to supporting community created content. Split profits with the community creators and work to make awesome things that capture the feel of NS2 but also give a bit of variety. CS:GO and TF2 have all these things, but NS2 is sorely lacking it.
Actually, you've got one. You just need to enable it!
I think you just need to do this and viola!
Not that it's a big deal anyways, the proposed suggestion is fine as it is.
Not a promise but it's planned. May or may not be done or finished.
that said, i voiced my opinion a few times because i believe that some people would have a big problem with the idea that somebody could buy the skins they have for 6$ instead of 75$. The badge and other stuff would have stayed exclusive, but some people might still get angry. So in that scenario there doesnt seem to be a viable way to do shadow fade and onos.
i dont speak for the cdt, but maybe that gives you some insight.
Go for it and NOW
Now if you devs wanna make money from this, and sell all the tiers for a low price, why not. $6 sounds good enough to me. Either way, I have no problem. At all. Look, these skins exists, they were made so it would be a waste to either not release them for everyone, or make everyone pay too much.
I consider it's like Killing Floor DLCs skins. They are first expensive for novelty, and then they end up costing nothing. Just releasing everything for free would be I'd be doing.
I want to state this. If you release official DLCs on steam, I will buy them, with money. I'd buy micropayment stuff. I'd buy lvl boosters, bonus skins, that kind of stuff.
What I would like is this: some kind of coop version. Left 4 Dead variety, whatever. Something that lets me and other pals or pugs play against some bots. Four marines vs a swarm of aliens, or 4 aliens vs a swarm of marines, whatever. I would pay full price for this. I can't speak for anyone else, only myself. But I speak for myself when I say I would absolutely pay more money for this.
For the work you already did, you guys deserve a lot of money. I think you guys don't get a lot of money because you don't exploit the modern moneymaking techniques (hat fortress exploitation stuff, micropayment things, lvling up, etc).
Those are just my thoughts.
. stealth (shadow) marine (reskinned black ops)
. standard shoulder decal
. shadow skulk
. ns1 rifle
. expanded soundtrack.
this would sell even better. i would buy it
I also want to thank you for the way you went about communication of this news!
Two thumbs up here.
But here's a thought; Name the patch that you are working on and get us to pre-fund it with pre-orders. i.e. - "Blue Steel Patch 278 is coming, pre-order now to help us do X, X, X to NS2 and get the new Blue Steel skins for the low price of $5. Or wait till the patch is released and get the skins for $10"
That way you front load the cash and give people a pretty nice benefit for early support. But those that come in later can still get the cool stuff if they would like. If you can net at least 20,000 early takers then you have $100k to work with and hopefully another $50-100k will come in after the release through people buying the "premium patch DLC".
But I'm supportive no matter which way it goes. THANKS FOR A GREAT GAME!!! /Epic
I've bought the deluxe edition, support the RP and even NS2 Combat to support the modders. But I have never told you how much I love the game.
NS2 is clearly one of my favorite game of all time, and it is still the case 2 years after the release. You have done such an amazing job, the community has done the rest and gave me tons of awesome moments.
NS2 is difficult, but has so much depth, so much fun and even with 149 hours on steam I have still so much to learn... Yeah i'm still a noob. UW I really wanna thank you.
For your concern about a DLC RP it's totally fine for me. After all, I and I'm sure many people trough the RP wanted to help you, to thank you. So what's the matter ?
If there is other people on steam directly that want to do the same, great !
The community of NS2 is great because she's welcoming and helpful, even during the Free weekend
Let's welcome steam players that want to help UW.
Many thanks and best of luck for your new game.
By a french student, sorry for all the mistake i could have done.