NS2 Time to Kill spreadsheet
SantaClaws
Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Fair warning: This topic contains maths!
The spreadsheet(s) in question: Vanilla sheet and CompMod sheet
This spreadsheet can display things like the number of bullets it takes to kill a lifeform at each biomass and carapace levels or the time it takes to kill the same.
The sheet is fully editable to anons. Feel free to experiment with different settings and values.
Introduction :
I have shown the chart to some people, and some of them were a bit confused or skeptical about the numbers. So this post is an attempt to:
I explained the methodology in detail in the context of nosgoth in this google document. The two games are not that dissimilar that I think it requires a second write-up, hopefully that doc is sufficient. Please feel free to look through that if you are curios how I gathered the numbers, and please feel free to suggest corrections or improvements.
This is by no means a perfect model, there are several factors it does not take in to account, but I believe it's the most accurate model that I have seen so far.
Lastly, the spreadsheet is not updated with all the correct stat values. The values are taken either from memory or the wiki, which I'm aware is notoriously inaccurate. If you find the sheet useful or interesting, please feel free to add the correct values.
The spreadsheet(s) in question: Vanilla sheet and CompMod sheet
This spreadsheet can display things like the number of bullets it takes to kill a lifeform at each biomass and carapace levels or the time it takes to kill the same.
The sheet is fully editable to anons. Feel free to experiment with different settings and values.
Introduction :
As you all know, post build 250, before Sewlek's balance mod became vanilla NS2, the game looked a lot different. In particular, the biomass mechanic was introduced, and the alien traits were divided in to 3 parts. The game was so different that it could hardly be considered the same game at all. It was a time where you basically had to relearn the entire game.
I wanted to know if there was ever a situation where it would be worth it to i.e. stay with 1 or 2 shells, rather than build all 3 - similar to how the current meta is to stay on armor 2 for marines.
In order to analyze this, I could either play thousands of hours and experiment, or I could do the math (I did both obviously). So I made a spreadsheet as early as build 250 that would display the amount of bullets it takes to kill each life form at each carapace level and how many seconds it would take to kill each lifeform with an interactive accuracy variable. This way I could tell exactly what the benefits of each level gained without massive amounts of hours in experimentation.
I did not publish this, because the spreadsheet was ugly, too large and too difficult to read by anyone other than myself.
With each significant balance change, i.e. compmod, I'd revisit the sheet and adjust for the patch notes. This way I was able to quickly expose some of the exploits without a seconds worth of playtime.
Fast forward to a month ago. www.twitch.tv/bitey was discussing on his stream with another Nosgoth player which gun was the best. I recalled that I already did the math and it would be relatively easy to port the logic for Nosgoth in to a new spreadsheet. That way they could discuss the guns with facts and numbers rather than resort to intuition or experience.
Then somebody from the Nosgoth community randomly made a bunch of improvements that allowed me to make it smaller easier to read and to an extent intuitive.
The sheets were well received in the Nosgoth community, so I decided to make a quick NS2 one. I've played many hours of NS2, so although I don't play much anymore, I still feel I owe the community what little I can to help.
I wanted to know if there was ever a situation where it would be worth it to i.e. stay with 1 or 2 shells, rather than build all 3 - similar to how the current meta is to stay on armor 2 for marines.
In order to analyze this, I could either play thousands of hours and experiment, or I could do the math (I did both obviously). So I made a spreadsheet as early as build 250 that would display the amount of bullets it takes to kill each life form at each carapace level and how many seconds it would take to kill each lifeform with an interactive accuracy variable. This way I could tell exactly what the benefits of each level gained without massive amounts of hours in experimentation.
I did not publish this, because the spreadsheet was ugly, too large and too difficult to read by anyone other than myself.
With each significant balance change, i.e. compmod, I'd revisit the sheet and adjust for the patch notes. This way I was able to quickly expose some of the exploits without a seconds worth of playtime.
Fast forward to a month ago. www.twitch.tv/bitey was discussing on his stream with another Nosgoth player which gun was the best. I recalled that I already did the math and it would be relatively easy to port the logic for Nosgoth in to a new spreadsheet. That way they could discuss the guns with facts and numbers rather than resort to intuition or experience.
Then somebody from the Nosgoth community randomly made a bunch of improvements that allowed me to make it smaller easier to read and to an extent intuitive.
The sheets were well received in the Nosgoth community, so I decided to make a quick NS2 one. I've played many hours of NS2, so although I don't play much anymore, I still feel I owe the community what little I can to help.
I have shown the chart to some people, and some of them were a bit confused or skeptical about the numbers. So this post is an attempt to:
-
1) Adequately explain my methodology.
2) Allow you guys to help me find any potential errors.
3) Convince you that my numbers are correct.
4) Provide this information to anyone who might find it useful.
5) Just sharing a fun little math exercise with whomever might appreciate it.
I explained the methodology in detail in the context of nosgoth in this google document. The two games are not that dissimilar that I think it requires a second write-up, hopefully that doc is sufficient. Please feel free to look through that if you are curios how I gathered the numbers, and please feel free to suggest corrections or improvements.
This is by no means a perfect model, there are several factors it does not take in to account, but I believe it's the most accurate model that I have seen so far.
Lastly, the spreadsheet is not updated with all the correct stat values. The values are taken either from memory or the wiki, which I'm aware is notoriously inaccurate. If you find the sheet useful or interesting, please feel free to add the correct values.
Comments
Good idea converting it to ns2 purposes. I do think 50% accuracy is a bit high. I remember hearing comp players average about 25-30% accuracy and average pub players are more like 15%. Maybe having it start out at comp level accuracy might be more accurate for lmg and shotgun. I could be wrong here as I am relying on hearsay information.
I assume this would mostly be used by comp players, so compmod numbers have more utility. Does comp mod kill times differ from vanilla by much or not at all?
Iirc there are some changes to how biomass affects hp in compmod, in particular on the lerk. So yes there will be a difference. I suppose I can make a separate sheet for both modes.
Edit: There's now a separate sheet. Each sheet contains a link to the other. I have not changed the actual stats however.
Vanilla sheet and CompMod sheet
As for the accuracies, that will be different from player to player, there's no reason to make a static value, better to let the users choose at what ever accuracy they want to analyze.
I would make a suggestion though, and as well as having a freely editable one, you could make a locked down sheet with the correct variables, where the only thing the user can alter is their accuracy. That way it is helpful for people who genuinely want to find out what it is going to take them, so they can adjust their game accordingly.
Otherwise, it seems like a bit of fun, but not super useful.
Edit: The problem with locking down parts of the sheet is, it makes these huge crossing lines over the cells, making it more difficult to read than it needs to. Alternatively I can make a script that simply rewrites to an old value if somebody tries to edit an illegal cell, but I think people will just become confused and think the sheet is bugged and useless or something. Moreover, if I did any of the above, people wouldn't be able to make a copy for themselves.
I'm reaaally not interested in keeping this up-to-date. I'm just providing the tool, what the people do with it or don't do with it, I'm not concerned about. If it needs updates other than the raw stat things, like the code needs to be altered or something, I'll do that stuff of course.
If you are personally concerned about it being sabotaged, then I'd recommend you to make a private copy for your own. File -> Make a copy
Are there effective health numbers shown anywhere?
Maybe im just blind and missing them, but if they're not, that'd be a really useful stat to have to hand, mainly for knowing just how low you got that lifeform. Like I know that a fade has roughly 400-500 HP depending on bio/cara levels but having a decent map of these values would be more useful to me than a time-to-kill type number.
Yes, under the big "Configuration" sign there's an option "Return Value". You can change that to "Health Points" and it will show you the effective health points of the life form at each carapace and biomass level.