The thread is ALIVE! muhahaha )
Hm well it is a quick fix. But the FT would not still bahave as a flame, when e.g. you flame into vent or such. Doing two low damage tick to lerk instead of one solves nothing. Lerks, Fades and Onoses dont care anyway, and run against FT guy as if he had whipped-cream spray instead. Maybe the FT should do blind, or help more tracking the liveform on flame (fade). Or to be consistent with current system, maybe the energy regen harm needs to be adjusted.
Imagine the webs are not flamable and need that high temperature flame of the welder to be cut. :P
Imagine the flame disperses the bile ball so it does not hit and harm anything in particular and just evaporates causing the poor marines some asthma. But when the acid hits the metal or armor, you can't help it with flame anymore. (I totaly imagined the situation in my head ) : bob: "AAAAH! I spilled acid on my hand" tom:"Oh no! Wait while I get my flamethrower!"
Someone said the FT actually reduce the corrosion, but there is not a visible animation made for that.
@KKyle God no! I don't want everybody making their separate version of the game on every suggestion that has ever been made.
Besides there are many awesome mods, that are not played frequently, simply because they are mods and not core game. If something is ment to gain wide acceptance, shouldn't it at least be discussed on e.g. game forum? When and if some consensus is ever reached of what changes should be made, some modder can pick it up...
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2015
Actually, the Flamethrower:
- Attacks around 4 times per second (for 16 each time), for approx. 64 damage per second, directly. Each canister lasts around 12 seconds.
- Burns for 2 damage per second (non-stacking), for 6 seconds, totaling up to 12 damage per ammo spent.
- Creates a "burning ground" effect when it hits a surface, which deals 8 damage every 0.6 second (13.33 DPS), for 5.6 seconds (10 ticks including initial impact), for up to 80 damage to enemies in contact.
- Deals double damage to structures.
- Deals 250% damage to "flamables", which are usually structures (eg Cyst, Hydra), which take 500% of the listed damage (ouch!).
What this actually means:
- By utilizing the "flaming ground" effect (usually ineffective against Hives, since they're suspended above ground), the Flamethrower can deal up to 158.66 DPS to most structures, or 397 DPS against Bone Walls, Cysts, Contaminations, Eggs, Hydras (Clogs take reduced damage).
- FT deals up to 79 DPS (very rarely) to slow moving players it can hit accurately, who also stay in the flaming puddles all the time (eg Onos, which takes over 22 seconds to kill with Flamethrower, or just under 3 seconds to kill a floor Lerk).
What this actually means:
- By utilizing the "flaming ground" effect (usually ineffective against Hives, since they're suspended above ground), the Flamethrower can deal up to 158.66 DPS to most structures, or 397 DPS against Bone Walls, Cysts, Contaminations, Eggs, Hydras (Clogs take reduced damage).
This isn't logical or consistent. 99% players flame the structure, not the floor. Either inform players somehow, or the mechanic needs to be changed.
- FT deals up to 79 DPS (very rarely) to slow moving players it can hit accurately, who also stay in the flaming puddles all the time (eg Onos, which takes over 22 seconds to kill with Flamethrower, or just under 3 seconds to kill a floor Lerk).
The complaint seen in this thread is that fast-moving targets -- which is most any skulk/fade/lerk -- doesn't trigger this scenario (as stated, it's rare). Hence, a change to damage frequency while reducing damage will see the FT more effective vs fast-moving targets. Which, who knows, might give rines a slight edge with the current 55% alien wins as indicated in that other thread.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
@Martigen We have definitely been talking about increasing the ROF of the FT (the dmg would be adjusted accordingly, to maintain the DPS) to improve ease of use, even before this thread was made
Nothing is finalized at this time, however.
Also, something that has been bugging me.. I know I told you in the past that the FT disabled BB - not just in the air - but also on structures.
This is because it DID work this way at one point, it was a design decision from Sewlek and was in the changelog for 250 and put into the wiki, and we tested it thoroughly (I remember because it created an odd bug that the public never saw).
But for the LIFE OF ME I cannot find where this was reverted!! I can't find any changelog since then that's stated it... and everyone now just pretty much knows it only "stops it in the air" and nothing else.
I assumed it was a bug because of never hearing or reading about this change, but when I've talked to others they can't even remember it ever disabling the BB on structures... so I am pretty much alone in attesting that it's a bug, despite no one able to tell me WHEN it changed or WHY.
Definitely a curious twist down hidden mechanics lane..
@IronHorse Was it reverted? I mean does it work or not in the game? The corrosion animation won't go away by flaming, but does it slow the damage?
The more I think about it, it is pretty nonsensical, that the FL behaves like a high ROF machine gun. It would be cool if the damage and afterdamage depended on how long you spend in the fire cone and what size of the area of your skin were hit. Oh well that does sound hard to implement, for such a small change... I guess I need to learn that modding (bleh. I hate scripting :P ).
@IronHorse Was it reverted? I mean does it work or not in the game? The corrosion animation won't go away by flaming, but does it slow the damage?
The more I think about it, it is pretty nonsensical, that the FL behaves like a high ROF machine gun. It would be cool if the damage and afterdamage depended on how long you spend in the fire cone and what size of the area of your skin were hit. Oh well that does sound hard to implement, for such a small change... I guess I need to learn that modding (bleh. I hate scripting :P ).
I have modded flamethrower to deal increased damage-over-time to burning targets in my Pandora mod. It feels quite good!
BTW being on fire reduces healing received by 50%. It's one of the lesser-known mechanisms of the game.
@twiliteblue
That's one serious rebalance. You did not kept single thing untouched. And hey what did babblers do to you??? only 6 per gorge? :P Good thinking on the multiple marine welding efficiency reduction.
I'm sorry, but it is too easy to put the liveform on fire and then it is too hard to put some extra damage to it if it's already burning. It takes 10 s direct hit to kill skulk and for any advanced liveform you could spray whipped cream at them and the effect would be the same. Based on the changelog, you reduced some other effects of FT making it even weaker. You increased skulk health in the mod, not helping this particular matter.
BTW being on fire reduces healing received by 50%. It's one of the lesser-known mechanisms of the game.
And this is why people go for the damn flamethrowers first :P they make life hell for alien life forms.
i'll say it again - balance-wise flamethrowers themselves are in a good place.
If only heavy armor existed, or perhaps even if exos could use flamethrowers *cough*nevermind*coughcough*
BTW being on fire reduces healing received by 50%. It's one of the lesser-known mechanisms of the game.
And this is why people go for the damn flamethrowers first :P they make life hell for alien life forms.
i'll say it again - balance-wise flamethrowers themselves are in a good place.
If only heavy armor existed, or perhaps even if exos could use flamethrowers *cough*nevermind*coughcough*
They are great, if not amazing support weapons, that is if you can get them where you need to without dying first. One game I had recently, me and another player killed turbine hive by ourselves. He had a shotgun and I had a flamethrower and there were lots of med packs. You would think two shotguns would be better, but I was able to kill 2 or more eggs at a time with a flamethrower and chip damage more than one skulk for the shotgun to finish off easily. Most games I can't even get close to the hive room because aliens picks off the flamethrower first.
BTW being on fire reduces healing received by 50%. It's one of the lesser-known mechanisms of the game.
And this is why people go for the damn flamethrowers first :P they make life hell for alien life forms.
i'll say it again - balance-wise flamethrowers themselves are in a good place.
If only heavy armor existed, or perhaps even if exos could use flamethrowers *cough*nevermind*coughcough*
minigun and a flamthrower, man could server the emperor like he should in that.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
I really just dislike Exos and find them ill fitting in this game even after modding them extensively. Heavy Armor would be a very welcome addition to this game and I hope CDT plan to have it made for the re-release.
I really just dislike Exos and find them ill fitting in this game even after modding them extensively. Heavy Armor would be a very welcome addition to this game and I hope CDT plan to have it made for the re-release.
As far as i understand CDT is allowed to do only minor changes like bug fixing, tiny balance changes, new maps, performance tweaks. Major changes are still decided by UWE.
Comments
Hm well it is a quick fix. But the FT would not still bahave as a flame, when e.g. you flame into vent or such. Doing two low damage tick to lerk instead of one solves nothing. Lerks, Fades and Onoses dont care anyway, and run against FT guy as if he had whipped-cream spray instead. Maybe the FT should do blind, or help more tracking the liveform on flame (fade). Or to be consistent with current system, maybe the energy regen harm needs to be adjusted.
Imagine the webs are not flamable and need that high temperature flame of the welder to be cut. :P
Imagine the flame disperses the bile ball so it does not hit and harm anything in particular and just evaporates causing the poor marines some asthma. But when the acid hits the metal or armor, you can't help it with flame anymore. (I totaly imagined the situation in my head
Someone said the FT actually reduce the corrosion, but there is not a visible animation made for that.
>Everybody demanding someone else do it for them
>Mfw no one else runs a modded server with changes done by whoever is requesting them
Besides there are many awesome mods, that are not played frequently, simply because they are mods and not core game. If something is ment to gain wide acceptance, shouldn't it at least be discussed on e.g. game forum? When and if some consensus is ever reached of what changes should be made, some modder can pick it up...
Also, afaik the fire rate of the FL is at the engine level and could not be modded. I am not 100% sure on that though.
- Attacks around 4 times per second (for 16 each time), for approx. 64 damage per second, directly. Each canister lasts around 12 seconds.
- Burns for 2 damage per second (non-stacking), for 6 seconds, totaling up to 12 damage per ammo spent.
- Creates a "burning ground" effect when it hits a surface, which deals 8 damage every 0.6 second (13.33 DPS), for 5.6 seconds (10 ticks including initial impact), for up to 80 damage to enemies in contact.
- Deals double damage to structures.
- Deals 250% damage to "flamables", which are usually structures (eg Cyst, Hydra), which take 500% of the listed damage (ouch!).
What this actually means:
- By utilizing the "flaming ground" effect (usually ineffective against Hives, since they're suspended above ground), the Flamethrower can deal up to 158.66 DPS to most structures, or 397 DPS against Bone Walls, Cysts, Contaminations, Eggs, Hydras (Clogs take reduced damage).
- FT deals up to 79 DPS (very rarely) to slow moving players it can hit accurately, who also stay in the flaming puddles all the time (eg Onos, which takes over 22 seconds to kill with Flamethrower, or just under 3 seconds to kill a floor Lerk).
Who needs wings when you have face spikes?
This isn't logical or consistent. 99% players flame the structure, not the floor. Either inform players somehow, or the mechanic needs to be changed.
The complaint seen in this thread is that fast-moving targets -- which is most any skulk/fade/lerk -- doesn't trigger this scenario (as stated, it's rare). Hence, a change to damage frequency while reducing damage will see the FT more effective vs fast-moving targets. Which, who knows, might give rines a slight edge with the current 55% alien wins as indicated in that other thread.
@IronHorse and CDT, thoughts?
Mart
Nothing is finalized at this time, however.
Also, something that has been bugging me.. I know I told you in the past that the FT disabled BB - not just in the air - but also on structures.
This is because it DID work this way at one point, it was a design decision from Sewlek and was in the changelog for 250 and put into the wiki, and we tested it thoroughly (I remember because it created an odd bug that the public never saw).
But for the LIFE OF ME I cannot find where this was reverted!! I can't find any changelog since then that's stated it... and everyone now just pretty much knows it only "stops it in the air" and nothing else.
I assumed it was a bug because of never hearing or reading about this change, but when I've talked to others they can't even remember it ever disabling the BB on structures... so I am pretty much alone in attesting that it's a bug, despite no one able to tell me WHEN it changed or WHY.
Definitely a curious twist down hidden mechanics lane..
The more I think about it, it is pretty nonsensical, that the FL behaves like a high ROF machine gun. It would be cool if the damage and afterdamage depended on how long you spend in the fire cone and what size of the area of your skin were hit. Oh well that does sound hard to implement, for such a small change... I guess I need to learn that modding (bleh. I hate scripting :P ).
I have modded flamethrower to deal increased damage-over-time to burning targets in my Pandora mod. It feels quite good!
BTW being on fire reduces healing received by 50%. It's one of the lesser-known mechanisms of the game.
That's one serious rebalance. You did not kept single thing untouched. And hey what did babblers do to you??? only 6 per gorge? :P Good thinking on the multiple marine welding efficiency reduction.
I'm sorry, but it is too easy to put the liveform on fire and then it is too hard to put some extra damage to it if it's already burning. It takes 10 s direct hit to kill skulk and for any advanced liveform you could spray whipped cream at them and the effect would be the same. Based on the changelog, you reduced some other effects of FT making it even weaker. You increased skulk health in the mod, not helping this particular matter.
i'll say it again - balance-wise flamethrowers themselves are in a good place.
If only heavy armor existed, or perhaps even if exos could use flamethrowers *cough*nevermind*coughcough*
They are great, if not amazing support weapons, that is if you can get them where you need to without dying first. One game I had recently, me and another player killed turbine hive by ourselves. He had a shotgun and I had a flamethrower and there were lots of med packs. You would think two shotguns would be better, but I was able to kill 2 or more eggs at a time with a flamethrower and chip damage more than one skulk for the shotgun to finish off easily. Most games I can't even get close to the hive room because aliens picks off the flamethrower first.
minigun and a flamthrower, man could server the emperor like he should in that.
As far as i understand CDT is allowed to do only minor changes like bug fixing, tiny balance changes, new maps, performance tweaks. Major changes are still decided by UWE.