Please Stop Tinkering

SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
<div class="IPBDescription">with.... stuff</div> To the dev team:

PLEASE stop tinkering with things like interesting little mechanisms to stop people using scripts, interesting little mechanisms which kill aliens\marines when there are no hives\CCs left, and interesting little mechanisms which end the game when some members of a team leave.

Other games don't have these interesting mechanisms, and these other games play fine. Please leave it. It's like a scab - it won't get better if you pick at it. NS is a great game, the dev team are obviously incredibly talented, but please stop with the bloody tinkering. It's really not necessary. :/

Comments

  • xioutlawixxioutlawix Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7118Members, Constellation
    That particular opinion is just that, an opinion. Most others here feel that change can be a good thing.
    Besides, the changes which are being done have not even been IMPLEMENTED mainstream yet. Can all the whiners who just so happened to stumble on a beta server please hold their comments and complaints about it until AFTER supposed problems become implemented in the next patch.

    Thank you.
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    Tinkering is necessary in the Mod world. If you are new to mods, it's someting you'll have to get used to. If you are not new to Mods, wtf are you whining about. Minor changes, and some not so minor, are necessary to the growth of this mod. If this was a perfect world people would even the teams and no one would hide in vents just to annoy the team that is winning. But alas, lamers exist and therefore so will NS patches and revisions.
  • Sephiroth2kSephiroth2k Join Date: 2002-04-21 Member: 481Members, Constellation
    okay if we still had turrets that kept shooting when the turret factory is dead, i'd stop playing ns. tinkering is good.
  • DemerzelDemerzel Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members
    yes tinkering is essential to the growth of any mod. without constant work by the developers things will either go two ways

    1) <i>small/large bugs can be exploited enough to make the game non-fun</i> - ala Front Line Force where the non-tested 1.2 patch introduced a seriously unbalanced thing called suppressive fire. As there was no patch to fix this for nearly three months and the game became seriously unfun to play, the player base went from six thousand to a couple of hundred in a very short space of time. A lesson in how to kill a large and successful mod.

    2) <i>the game gets stale</i> - how often do you wish to play the same game over and over? after a while I just can't get the enthuiasm to repeat certain things. With constant change, strategies change and you can keep your playing time fresh with new strategies and gaming style.
  • StormehStormeh Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3541Members
    It is good that people who are having problems, comes to this forum and post what is wrong. Ok some people just comes here and whines about everything, but good, constructive critisism is just good for the mod.
  • ViPrViPr Resident naysayer Join Date: 2002-10-17 Member: 1515Members
    dude the whole point of the test server is to see if the next version is gonna be alright and obviously it is not because there are new features for the next patch which are majorly **obscenity** off a lot of people and it's good people are complaining now because if these features get in the next mainstream release there will be hell.

    about lamers. the solution is kickvote. there's no avoiding it. i don't know what's taking so long. this simple feature solves so many problems all at once.
  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    Ok, I think I should clafiry what I meant <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    When I say "tinkering", I don't mean fiddling with the game balance of something you've created. That just makes sense. I mean that there are certain things NS does which deviate from the FPS genre in very simple and not-necessarily-productive ways. For example: whether a "turret factory" is destroyed or not has no bearing whatsoever on, say, a game of Team Fortress Classic. However, if four people were to leave one team and the other side win, that would have bearing on this game.

    There are certain fundamental constants in virtually all online FPSs - that the only way a team wins or loses the game is if they actually win or lose the game (however the particular game is played) and that no matter how little chance a team holds it is guarunteed the right to try to make a comeback. <i>These</i> are the sort of things I don't want changed. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Dash-o-SaltDash-o-Salt Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4425Members
    You're talking about the game-ending thing, right? I'm pretty sure they're still working on that, and it's been complained about a lot. I would put faith in the dev team that they'll get it right.

    As for the going to ready room/unbalancing teams, I'm pretty sure they're not done with that either. It's only been a few weeks, give the devs a break!
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    I'm afraid I disagree. If NS were straight up deathmatch, we could stick to the regular conventions. It's not though, so we can't. I feel that the advantages of doing damage to aliens without hives far outweigh the advantages of the team coming back once in a blue moon. When you have a camping alien, half the server leaves.

    As far as scripting goes, people keep parroting that I put in "anti-scripting" code (which no matter how many times I correct, people ignore). I didn't. I put in that code because it was the only easy way I could prevent people from exploiting alien abilities by binding them when they didn't have them. It's not an easy solution to explain, you'll just have to take my word for it. The fact that it stops some scripts is an unintended side effect. Whether this side effect is good or bad, depends on whether you use scripts to combine actions like leaping and biting or whether you run a tournament.
  • NimbusNimbus Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7239Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Nov 25 2002, 09:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Nov 25 2002, 09:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm afraid I disagree. If NS were straight up deathmatch, we could stick to the regular conventions. It's not though, so we can't. I feel that the advantages of doing damage to aliens without hives far outweigh the advantages of the team coming back once in a blue moon. When you have a camping alien, half the server leaves.

    As far as scripting goes, people keep parroting that I put in "anti-scripting" code (which no matter how many times I correct, people ignore). I didn't. I put in that code because it was the only easy way I could prevent people from exploiting alien abilities by binding them when they didn't have them. It's not an easy solution to explain, you'll just have to take my word for it. The fact that it stops some scripts is an unintended side effect. Whether this side effect is good or bad, depends on whether you use scripts to combine actions like leaping and biting or whether you run a tournament.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    would a script that makes each alien attack correspond to a different button be considered illegitamate?
  • Teufel_EldritchTeufel_Eldritch Join Date: 2002-01-28 Member: 124Members
    Well I am willing to bet that even more ppl are gonna flee losing games now with the end game changes that were applied to the Khaara.
  • tlengtleng Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9503Members
    Maybe a countdown will help. Some voice saying.. "game ends in 3 minutes" Then "game ends in 2 minutes" etc. If at the end of countdown, the aliens or marines get a hive/cc up then the voice says "game will continue". I don't mind waiting 3 minutes especially if it has been a 1-2 hour game.
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    I haven't seen the proposed end game changes yet; however, I am confident that they will be suitable and fit with the rest of the mod. We (MMZ) were discussing the "end game" of NS and also felt that it needed something like an alien no-hive timer and a similar effect for marines. This end game problem is also compounded by a severe lack of sportsmanship on MANY pubbers side. I have often stated here that people don't want to hang around for the coup-de-grace from the winning team. It's this exodus that causes a majority of team balance issues. A faster end game would help this. Hopefully not at the cost of dramatic comebacks (which are few and far between but no less exciting!).
  • DemerzelDemerzel Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members
    a "we've lost?" vote by the losing side would help I'm sure. Far too often I've come into a game to find teams 8 v 4 and so I've naturally joined the smaller and losing side. If the winning side takes its time to win then it can be very frustrating and boring indeed especially for aliens who all I'm sure playing skulk vs. HA + HMG marines. It would be nice to end games in a hurry in those cases, I've sometimes tried to presuade my whole team to f4 to ready room and end it so we can get a new game underway.

    A few minutes to give a lone gorge a chance to resurrect a hive might be worthy of a chance as a comeback is sometimes possible. Rare but possible if the winning team is lax. However, even worse than respawning & dying 5s later over and over is the wait whilst a single marine/alien hides and all the dead team have to wait for them to be found. I've found watching paint dry more fun, scratch that - watching grass grow whilst being tortured by a particulary unpleasant welshman whilst being forced to listen to celine dion whilst being made to eat broccoli would probably be more pleasant.
  • Bishop_GantryBishop_Gantry Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6861Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Demerzel+Nov 26 2002, 11:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Demerzel @ Nov 26 2002, 11:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->a "we've lost?" vote by the losing side would help I'm sure. Far too often I've come into a game to find teams 8 v 4 and so I've naturally joined the smaller and losing side. If the winning side takes its time to win then it can be very frustrating and boring indeed especially for aliens who all I'm sure playing skulk vs. HA + HMG marines. It would be nice to end games in a hurry in those cases, I've sometimes tried to presuade my whole team to f4 to ready room and end it so we can get a new game underway.

    A few minutes to give a lone gorge a chance to resurrect a hive might be worthy of a chance as a comeback is sometimes possible. Rare but possible if the winning team is lax. However, even worse than respawning & dying 5s later over and over is the wait whilst a single marine/alien hides and all the dead team have to wait for them to be found. I've found watching paint dry more fun, scratch that - watching grass grow whilst being tortured by a particulary unpleasant welshman whilst being forced to listen to celine dion whilst being made to eat broccoli would probably be more pleasant.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Mariens ahve far easier in making a comeback than aliens does... since they dont loose their stuff unless the base is completly overruned and gnawed to bits... while loosing just 1 hive for the Khaaras means imminent loss of abilities...
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