Wow, the response shows people really want this Keep up the good work @SamusDroid
Well Eclipse was one of the most played ns1 maps back in the day like Veil was, but sadly unlike Veil it didn't translate well into ns2 in it's current form.
Funny thing to note is Veil was criticized heavily on it's release for being a 4 techpoint map but now it's one of most voted for maps on pub servers.
Funny? I don't know... dumb is more accurate as it's one of the most unforgiving map. Lately when forced to play on it, i see only this : one team has a chew toy, play with it for while then end it. I can't explain the votes except with fame (probably more than it deserves), or people think it's an easy map while it has its complexity like any other. Or maybe they're masochists... dunno.
Wow, the response shows people really want this Keep up the good work @SamusDroid
Well Eclipse was one of the most played ns1 maps back in the day like Veil was, but sadly unlike Veil it didn't translate well into ns2 in it's current form.
Funny thing to note is Veil was criticized heavily on it's release for being a 4 techpoint map but now it's one of most voted for maps on pub servers.
Funny? I don't know... dumb is more accurate as it's one of the most unforgiving map. Lately when forced to play on it, i see only this : one team has a chew toy, play with it for while then end it. I can't explain the votes except with fame (probably more than it deserves), or people think it's an easy map while it has its complexity like any other. Or maybe they're masochists... dunno.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
General Translation:
I don't know if it's funny that it is one of the most voted maps, dumb is more accurate, as it is one of the most unforgiving maps to play, I always see games with rookies on Veil go like this:
One team is like a dog playing with a chewy toy. They play with the toy until they get bored, then end it.
I can't explain why rookies vote for Veil, except for maybe its fame (which is exaggerated), or maybe people think it is an easy map, because of past experiences, but it is as complex as any other. Or maybe rookies are just masochists... I don't know.
Thank you, mobile phones (webphone) firefox sucks, in the way the interface hides everything when writing comments.
Anyways. It's not only rookies who vote for it. Maybe some vets do as they get nostalgic. But the other side of the coin is that any 4 TP maps starts to be a problem above 6vs6. So the public games on these maps tend to be like that all the time (obliteration).
Anyways. It's not only rookies who vote for it. Maybe some vets do as they get nostalgic. But the other side of the coin is that any 4 TP maps starts to be a problem above 6vs6. So the public games on these maps tend to be like that all the time (obliteration).
As an NA player I play veil way more than I like. I actively try to get people to play a different map. I really like veil too. I do this not because veil is a bad map, but because it is simply played that often. I do my utmost best to not play with rookies because I find them boring. So I mostly play with veterans who vote for veil more than any other map.
That is my experience. Is it really that different in the EU? Do veterans not vote for veil there? What you describe is just so different than what I experience.
Same everywhere. Veil is like DE_dust (17 years ago). It's not the best, it has huge problems, but people know it and deploy the troops using the same pattern like pre-programmed robots. Once you change something they become clueless or clearly inefficient. Rookies and vets. This is just stupid.
That's why I advocate for maps that people can navigate easily by using the map (C) or the minimap. You want to go north, find the north wall. The faster the routes are found the better people feel.
It introduces an 'exploration layer' that has been ignored for a long time for the sake of 'strategic and tactical efficiency'.
As said people don't like change. A funny thing would be to replace Veil by Veil5... or Eclipse by Eclipse5... officially.
I would be delighted. Just for the fun of it.
Because :
retention won't come from "competition" people. It's a dead end. People come and go the same. You see the same heads who stay, go through the same issues etc... The new team don't have a single chance to progress unless they go through divisions stuff. But it's a long road and the Div premier kings have sharp teeth. Discouraging.
the real showcase is located in "public games". 16 slot mini up to 42 (insane and dumb). But it's there.
Unfortunately Eclipse and Veil in their current state won't change that. It actually diminishes the NS2 potential by reducing the other maps "presence". And talking about custom maps is another chapter.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Veil may be overplayed now but it is nothing compared to Summit syndrome the game suffered from for it's first couple years of release. Due to performance and safe balancing the map was played to hell and back so I'm glad the other maps and layouts have finally started to get more attention.
Veil may be overplayed now but it is nothing compared to Summit syndrome the game suffered from for it's first couple years of release. Due to performance and safe balancing the map was played to hell and back so I'm glad the other maps and layouts have finally started to get more attention.
I am pretty tired of the holy trilogy Summit, Veil, and Tram.
Veil may be overplayed now but it is nothing compared to Summit syndrome the game suffered from for it's first couple years of release. Due to performance and safe balancing the map was played to hell and back so I'm glad the other maps and layouts have finally started to get more attention.
I am pretty tired of the holy trilogy Summit, Veil, and Tram.
Veil may be overplayed now but it is nothing compared to Summit syndrome the game suffered from for it's first couple years of release. Due to performance and safe balancing the map was played to hell and back so I'm glad the other maps and layouts have finally started to get more attention.
I am pretty tired of the holy trilogy Summit, Veil, and Tram.
Bring back bast bring back bast bring back bast!
It has been tried. A total failure. Bast needs a total rework in order to be compatible with NS2.
Veil may be overplayed now but it is nothing compared to Summit syndrome the game suffered from for it's first couple years of release. Due to performance and safe balancing the map was played to hell and back so I'm glad the other maps and layouts have finally started to get more attention.
I am pretty tired of the holy trilogy Summit, Veil, and Tram.
Bring back bast bring back bast bring back bast!
It has been tried. A total failure. Bast needs a total rework in order to be compatible with NS2.
Agreed. I don't get this obsession with porting NS1 maps. Its a different game and you can't expect to just put it in and go. See how hard Flat is working to make caged work. Detailing aside, the map was completed long ago but he had to make so many revisions. Tanith never really got anywhere either.
Veil may be overplayed now but it is nothing compared to Summit syndrome the game suffered from for it's first couple years of release. Due to performance and safe balancing the map was played to hell and back so I'm glad the other maps and layouts have finally started to get more attention.
I am pretty tired of the holy trilogy Summit, Veil, and Tram.
Bring back bast bring back bast bring back bast!
ns_origin would be better suited imo, with some minor changes of course.
Comments
Funny? I don't know... dumb is more accurate as it's one of the most unforgiving map. Lately when forced to play on it, i see only this : one team has a chew toy, play with it for while then end it. I can't explain the votes except with fame (probably more than it deserves), or people think it's an easy map while it has its complexity like any other. Or maybe they're masochists... dunno.
What?
I don't know if it's funny that it is one of the most voted maps, dumb is more accurate, as it is one of the most unforgiving maps to play, I always see games with rookies on Veil go like this:
One team is like a dog playing with a chewy toy. They play with the toy until they get bored, then end it.
I can't explain why rookies vote for Veil, except for maybe its fame (which is exaggerated), or maybe people think it is an easy map, because of past experiences, but it is as complex as any other. Or maybe rookies are just masochists... I don't know.
Anyways. It's not only rookies who vote for it. Maybe some vets do as they get nostalgic. But the other side of the coin is that any 4 TP maps starts to be a problem above 6vs6. So the public games on these maps tend to be like that all the time (obliteration).
As an NA player I play veil way more than I like. I actively try to get people to play a different map. I really like veil too. I do this not because veil is a bad map, but because it is simply played that often. I do my utmost best to not play with rookies because I find them boring. So I mostly play with veterans who vote for veil more than any other map.
That is my experience. Is it really that different in the EU? Do veterans not vote for veil there? What you describe is just so different than what I experience.
That's why I advocate for maps that people can navigate easily by using the map (C) or the minimap. You want to go north, find the north wall. The faster the routes are found the better people feel.
It introduces an 'exploration layer' that has been ignored for a long time for the sake of 'strategic and tactical efficiency'.
As said people don't like change. A funny thing would be to replace Veil by Veil5... or Eclipse by Eclipse5... officially.
I would be delighted. Just for the fun of it.
Because :
- retention won't come from "competition" people. It's a dead end. People come and go the same. You see the same heads who stay, go through the same issues etc... The new team don't have a single chance to progress unless they go through divisions stuff. But it's a long road and the Div premier kings have sharp teeth. Discouraging.
- the real showcase is located in "public games". 16 slot mini up to 42 (insane and dumb). But it's there.
Unfortunately Eclipse and Veil in their current state won't change that. It actually diminishes the NS2 potential by reducing the other maps "presence". And talking about custom maps is another chapter.I am pretty tired of the holy trilogy Summit, Veil, and Tram.
Bring back bast bring back bast bring back bast!
It has been tried. A total failure. Bast needs a total rework in order to be compatible with NS2.
Agreed. I don't get this obsession with porting NS1 maps. Its a different game and you can't expect to just put it in and go. See how hard Flat is working to make caged work. Detailing aside, the map was completed long ago but he had to make so many revisions. Tanith never really got anywhere either.
ns_origin would be better suited imo, with some minor changes of course.