You're talking as if absolutely everybody who played multiplayer games back then, especially FPS, didn't already have Half-Life. Was ns2 technically free? No. Was it essentially free? Yes.
Maybe that matters for the "there will be more hackers if ns2 goes f2p" argument (as people VAC-banned in ns1 would have to repurchase half-life on a new steam account, whereas a f2p ns2 wouldn't require you to repurchase anything), but not for everything else.
You're talking as if absolutely everybody who played multiplayer games back then, especially FPS, didn't already have Half-Life?
I didn't. I am apart from the crowd on this though. I never liked the half life franchise. I was unlucky to not have found ns1 though. I actually did purchase half life 1 after I purchased ns2 just to try ns1.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Martigen's got it.
F2P WILL fail without "gating".
You'd need a proper tutorial - an enforced one for the basics, and then gate anything beyond Rookie Only servers behind advanced tutorials.
Anything else would just mirror the past very temporary player count spikes, followed by where we are now.
This is ofc assuming that there is a way to generate income still to justify F2P, else it would just be goodwill from UWE... which while I would not put it past them to do so, I'd still hope they made something in return.
Martigen's got it.
F2P WILL fail without "gating".
You'd need a proper tutorial - an enforced one for the basics, and then gate anything beyond Rookie Only servers behind advanced tutorials.(...)
Tutorials, Bootcamp, license to NS, training courses ?
Wow! i don't understand why isn't there a mass reply to that; saying you're a fool (and many other names). Maybe they're still in bed. It's been a while since this idea was floating around. Sadly every time someone (including me) raised the topic whatever the flavor (different words or details), it was the bashing of the day. I fully understand @KKyle when he use the word "babysitting". It truly feels like a desert.
Dev should do match making only + lobby like Call of Duty MW2 ( i have played that game long time ago , and now on Steam its still live with about 800-1500 players)
Dev should do match making only + lobby like Call of Duty MW2 ( i have played that game long time ago , and now on Steam its still live with about 800-1500 players)
^ One of the worst things ever introduced to the gaming world... No thank you.
That CoD matchmaking lobby garbage is quite literally the worst possible gaming experience you can get...
Although rather than strict gating across the board, you could coordinate with server operators in each region to work out the demand of rookie-only, mixed, and non-rookie servers, and thus how many servers need to be of each type (and also, the hours played required for F2P noobs to graduate to non-rookie servers with the main population).
For example - there's no use enforcing gating in a place like Australia if there's not enough players to fill both a rookie server and a non-rookie one. Then you might end up with <8 players on a rookie server, and <8 on a non-rookie server when it would be best to have 1 mixed server in that situation. After all, playing with rookies is better than not having enough people for a proper game.
In America and Europe, where the current player population and the potential rookie population would be higher, you might have 2-4 rookie servers, maybe 1-2 mixed (if there's even demand for it), and as many non-rookie servers as the current player population needs (to keep away from dem rookies).
But, of course, it's a bad idea just open our doors completely to the green wave, and thus F2P is a bad idea on it's own.
I'm for gating if it must be a simple approach (as opposed to something like I've just outlined), but it may only work for the high-population areas. And they already have an ns2 scene that's not in danger of dying anytime soon.
This is ofc assuming that there is a way to generate income still to justify F2P, else it would just be goodwill from UWE... which while I would not put it past them to do so, I'd still hope they made something in return.
It could still be free advertising for them for any game they make after this one. Though making it free is a card, that can be played only once, so everything must go smoothly.
I was not gated, and I am still here. But yeah, it would help, if it's not made as complete apartheid. It simply needs some simple management of the friction points between new and old players (e.g. noob comm panic; narcistic "skilled" players who think, they are doing all the teamwork, and shout at greens... ).
EDIT: @d0ped0g Again match-making to the rescue. I know you hate the word, but it simply would configure the server based on what free players it have at the concrete moment and separate them automagically or put them in game together if need be.
Guys, sometimes people just move on. Old games lose their playerbase, it happens. The only way to keep an online game alive for many years is a continuous stream of new content, and UWE doesn't have the manpower or the cash flow to do that. I barely play anymore and it's not because of anything that can be fixed, 1000+ hours of play is just a really long time.
EDIT: @d0ped0g Again match-making to the rescue. I know you hate the word, but it simply would configure the server based on what free players it have at the concrete moment and separate them automagically or put them in game together if need be.
I don't hate the word. It just seems unviable at this point even with a rookie wave to pad the numbers. Maybe it isn't. I dunno...
Guys, sometimes people just move on. Old games lose their playerbase, it happens. The only way to keep an online game alive for many years is a continuous stream of new content, and UWE doesn't have the manpower or the cash flow to do that. I barely play anymore and it's not because of anything that can be fixed, 1000+ hours of play is just a really long time.
I don't yet have 1000+ hours and there are 7 billion people who have 0 h. Should I and they move on too?
Also I would rather it not die yet on the basis, that it is unique and has no successor nor alternative. All other games nowadays seems to me to be achievement coin based nonsense brawler or otherwise pretty much gather in the middle and who survives wins or who kills more wins. Any recommendations for me where to move on?
Guys, sometimes people just move on. Old games lose their playerbase, it happens. The only way to keep an online game alive for many years is a continuous stream of new content, and UWE doesn't have the manpower or the cash flow to do that. I barely play anymore and it's not because of anything that can be fixed, 1000+ hours of play is just a really long time.
I don't yet have 1000+ hours and there are 7 billion people who have 0 h. Should I and they move on too?
Sucks, but there's always a time limit on these things. You'll still be able to find games of NS2 for a long while yet, but the zeitgeist is over - a game like this thrives on its core community, and slowly but surely they're moving on.
Start seeding servers, bug some people on your friend list on other servers/single player games to help, stick around after people mass leave after long games. Often, servers are either full or mostly empty. I hardly see servers that have only 2-3 empty slots for extended periods of time, so the players are still there, but they are either queuing to full servers or turning off the game because there are no servers readily playable.
Its just a bandaid, but it should help slow the rate of players leaving.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
The only way F2P would be beneficial to the game is if new players would be forced to play on special locked skill servers (arbitrary number, maybe <20hrs? playtime and below only), and be gradually introduced to the normal server population. Some vets would find a way around that lock to play anyways.
There is no bronze league in NS2, but rather a mix of all different skill levels thrown together onto one server, where it only takes 1 very high skilled player to change the skill curve for the entire server. Current player numbers makes a matchmaking system impractical.
Guys, sometimes people just move on. Old games lose their playerbase, it happens. The only way to keep an online game alive for many years is a continuous stream of new content, and UWE doesn't have the manpower or the cash flow to do that. I barely play anymore and it's not because of anything that can be fixed, 1000+ hours of play is just a really long time.
im actually kinda sad to log in and see very few players on.. The last time I played this game was a couple months ago for only a few rounds and then I quit. I haven't posted in the forums for about maybe 6 months or so even though I don't play the game anymore. That says something about me having a special place in my heart for ns 2 to succeed again. Honestly wish it would just go F2P already tbh.
I have no idea what d0ped0g's post was about, but here's my 2c:
I vote F2P. But with the following conditions met first:
* Rookies (<30 hrs) can only join Rookie servers
* Non-rookies (>30 hrs) cannot join Rookie servers
* Ensure there are UWE provided or community provided Rookie servers in every region (work with server admins to ensure this).
Then, you go F2P when this is in place. The influx of F2P will see lots of players. Rookies can learn the game with each-other, and without getting stomped. We need a clear message in-game explaining this when they try to join a server (or simply, if player hours < 30 only display Rookie green servers).
It's one of those things where all the pieces have to be in place before you do it. F2P is an opportunity, but only if the game and servers are properly prepared. We will lose many who try it and don't like this style of game -- and that's good, it's not for them. We will also attract a lot of players for whom this game is right up their alley, and ensuring they have a good experience as they learn is critical. Once they know the ropes, the rest of the servers will be open to them.
This also prevents the influx of the 'green-wave' interrupting normal servers. Instead, we'll see experienced players who at least understand the basics joining regular servers once they reach 30 hours, and the sheer number of players F2P attracts will ensure Rookie green servers are populated. Win/win.
@SamusDroid and the rest of the CDT -- I want to take this opportunity to thank you for the work you've done on NS2. It is very much appreciated, please know you are loved.
Mart
Up the rookie time to 100-200 and it would work better? Anyone not see under 200 hour players as just meat? I'd personally set it at 300 hrs... But you know, compromise.
Guys, sometimes people just move on. Old games lose their playerbase, it happens. The only way to keep an online game alive for many years is a continuous stream of new content, and UWE doesn't have the manpower or the cash flow to do that. I barely play anymore and it's not because of anything that can be fixed, 1000+ hours of play is just a really long time.
I think I just spent more time on this forum than in game this week... Which is to say 10 minutes. I've probably got 1500 hours. It gets stale.
This is ofc assuming that there is a way to generate income still to justify F2P, else it would just be goodwill from UWE... which while I would not put it past them to do so, I'd still hope they made something in return.
What UWE thinks about opensourcing, but keeping the price? (obviously, redirecting some/all of the current income to the CDT)
Comments
Maybe that matters for the "there will be more hackers if ns2 goes f2p" argument (as people VAC-banned in ns1 would have to repurchase half-life on a new steam account, whereas a f2p ns2 wouldn't require you to repurchase anything), but not for everything else.
F2P WILL fail without "gating".
You'd need a proper tutorial - an enforced one for the basics, and then gate anything beyond Rookie Only servers behind advanced tutorials.
Anything else would just mirror the past very temporary player count spikes, followed by where we are now.
This is ofc assuming that there is a way to generate income still to justify F2P, else it would just be goodwill from UWE... which while I would not put it past them to do so, I'd still hope they made something in return.
Tutorials, Bootcamp, license to NS, training courses ?
Wow! i don't understand why isn't there a mass reply to that; saying you're a fool (and many other names). Maybe they're still in bed. It's been a while since this idea was floating around. Sadly every time someone (including me) raised the topic whatever the flavor (different words or details), it was the bashing of the day. I fully understand @KKyle when he use the word "babysitting". It truly feels like a desert.
^ One of the worst things ever introduced to the gaming world... No thank you.
That CoD matchmaking lobby garbage is quite literally the worst possible gaming experience you can get...
Agreed.
Although rather than strict gating across the board, you could coordinate with server operators in each region to work out the demand of rookie-only, mixed, and non-rookie servers, and thus how many servers need to be of each type (and also, the hours played required for F2P noobs to graduate to non-rookie servers with the main population).
For example - there's no use enforcing gating in a place like Australia if there's not enough players to fill both a rookie server and a non-rookie one. Then you might end up with <8 players on a rookie server, and <8 on a non-rookie server when it would be best to have 1 mixed server in that situation. After all, playing with rookies is better than not having enough people for a proper game.
In America and Europe, where the current player population and the potential rookie population would be higher, you might have 2-4 rookie servers, maybe 1-2 mixed (if there's even demand for it), and as many non-rookie servers as the current player population needs (to keep away from dem rookies).
But, of course, it's a bad idea just open our doors completely to the green wave, and thus F2P is a bad idea on it's own.
I'm for gating if it must be a simple approach (as opposed to something like I've just outlined), but it may only work for the high-population areas. And they already have an ns2 scene that's not in danger of dying anytime soon.
I was not gated, and I am still here. But yeah, it would help, if it's not made as complete apartheid. It simply needs some simple management of the friction points between new and old players (e.g. noob comm panic; narcistic "skilled" players who think, they are doing all the teamwork, and shout at greens... ).
EDIT: @d0ped0g Again match-making to the rescue. I know you hate the word, but it simply would configure the server based on what free players it have at the concrete moment and separate them automagically or put them in game together if need be.
I don't hate the word. It just seems unviable at this point even with a rookie wave to pad the numbers. Maybe it isn't. I dunno...
Also I would rather it not die yet on the basis, that it is unique and has no successor nor alternative. All other games nowadays seems to me to be achievement coin based nonsense brawler or otherwise pretty much gather in the middle and who survives wins or who kills more wins. Any recommendations for me where to move on?
Sucks, but there's always a time limit on these things. You'll still be able to find games of NS2 for a long while yet, but the zeitgeist is over - a game like this thrives on its core community, and slowly but surely they're moving on.
Its just a bandaid, but it should help slow the rate of players leaving.
There is no bronze league in NS2, but rather a mix of all different skill levels thrown together onto one server, where it only takes 1 very high skilled player to change the skill curve for the entire server. Current player numbers makes a matchmaking system impractical.
This. +1
There are many contents. Starting with custom maps. Even if some maps need so more work, it can provide some more fun.
A rifle can count kills like StatTrack weapons ? A difference skin :P
Up the rookie time to 100-200 and it would work better? Anyone not see under 200 hour players as just meat? I'd personally set it at 300 hrs... But you know, compromise.
I think I just spent more time on this forum than in game this week... Which is to say 10 minutes. I've probably got 1500 hours. It gets stale.
What UWE thinks about opensourcing, but keeping the price? (obviously, redirecting some/all of the current income to the CDT)