I wish you guys all the very best with your future developments,
and I really hope you prove me wrong, but I’m sorry to say that without radical
changes this game is truly on its death bed and won’t get the growth or rebirth
it needs/deserves – which is incredibly frustrating given the lack of good FPS
out there or on the horizon.
1. Remove cysting and power nodes 2. Dirty Bomb
And remove the '2' of NS2 maybe?
That's not all that's different, at all (unfortunately for me). But it's the main thing that shouldn't be that is (unfortunately for everyone).
I hiiiiiiiighly doubt that ns2 is on its "deathbed." The people who I see in game every night are probably not going anywhere any time soon, and neither am I. The players who still play this game play it because there's nothing else like it to satiate that hunger in their gaming lives. I'm not concerned about new games, haven't seen a fps I've wanted to play in a looooong time.
Also, @mattji04 I'm now convinced u r trollllllll.
You should have a deeper look then. Both AusNS2 and NSL can prove that. Which is enough since those are the only two 'real' communities remaining.
@Pelargir I don't know about you but TAW isn't decreasing in player numbers but that's probably due to the reason we play
I wasn't referring to clans but communities. Was mainly thinking about competitive and national groups such as the Russian community, Polish and NS2-FR for instance. You can have a look to the last AusNS2' season. Group that used to handle many servers and events or even the current season 6 of the NSL. All this reflects a lot.
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited June 2015
well I took my eye of the thread for a week and everyone derails it :S
This video needs more views kk
it may be wishful thinking but what we got planned (and what I want to do) should get more people back in and I am not talking just ns2 derelict here. In the end though if it does not work atleast those still around get more new FREE content ??????????
But if we manage even half of what we want to do I am pretty confident that we WILL get people back
I hiiiiiiiighly doubt that ns2 is on its "deathbed." The people who I see in game every night are probably not going anywhere any time soon, and neither am I. The players who still play this game play it because there's nothing else like it to satiate that hunger in their gaming lives. I'm not concerned about new games, haven't seen a fps I've wanted to play in a looooong time.
Also, @mattji04 I'm now convinced u r trollllllll.
You should have a deeper look then. Both AusNS2 and NSL can prove that. Which is enough since those are the only two 'real' communities remaining.
...lol? This sentiment is a perfect example of why the competitive community comes off so high and mighty, or that their players are the only one's whose opinions are worth listening to.
I'm not talking about the comp scene at ALL when I'm talkin about "community." I'm talking about the network of players who play every night on NA servers. Some comp players, sure, but largely these are dedicated pubbers who play with each other almost every night. There are certain Euro servers I see full quite often too, though I'm less familiar w/ the player base you have there. These are the members of the community I'm referring to, and it's laughable to me that you would only include comp players as your idea of "community." These are more akin to exclusive clubs and are a community only as much as a country club is, IMO.
I'm not trying to knock comp players or the comp community at all, I just really don't think that can be used as an accurate gauge.
BTW, look here: http://steamspy.com/app/4920 If you click on the tab that shows audience in 2 weeks, you'll see that even just yesterday, there was approximately 14,000 people who fired up ns2. Only 300 some odd concurrent players, but obviously players on the opposite side of the world will have different "prime time" hours. Here's a quick view for those who don't want to link over.
Players in the last 2 weeks: 14,321 ± 3,169 (0.91%)
It would be awesome if the code was on github and we could try our hand at fixing some low priority bugs.
Without proper documentation source code is useless. It will take too much effort to change something. I think developers will prefer to do fixes themselves than spend time answering similar questions again and again.
BTW, look here: http://steamspy.com/app/4920 If you click on the tab that shows audience in 2 weeks, you'll see that even just yesterday, there was approximately 14,000 people who fired up ns2. Only 300 some odd concurrent players, but obviously players on the opposite side of the world will have different "prime time" hours. Here's a quick view for those who don't want to link over.
Median time per player at about 50 seconds. Most of those players didn't even get through the loading screen.
...lol? This sentiment is a perfect example of why the competitive community comes off so high and mighty, or that their players are the only one's whose opinions are worth listening to.
I'm not talking about the comp scene at ALL when I'm talkin about "community." I'm talking about the network of players who play every night on NA servers. Some comp players, sure, but largely these are dedicated pubbers who play with each other almost every night. There are certain Euro servers I see full quite often too, though I'm less familiar w/ the player base you have there. These are the members of the community I'm referring to, and it's laughable to me that you would only include comp players as your idea of "community." These are more akin to exclusive clubs and are a community only as much as a country club is, IMO.
I'm not trying to knock comp players or the comp community at all, I just really don't think that can be used as an accurate gauge.
BTW, look here: http://steamspy.com/app/4920 If you click on the tab that shows audience in 2 weeks, you'll see that even just yesterday, there was approximately 14,000 people who fired up ns2. Only 300 some odd concurrent players, but obviously players on the opposite side of the world will have different "prime time" hours. Here's a quick view for those who don't want to link over.
Players in the last 2 weeks: 14,321 ± 3,169 (0.91%)
Did you figure out somehow why I have quoted both AusNS2 and NSL? There are reasons behind that and although I'm myself from the competitive scene, I wasn't referring to competitive only. If you're not aware, and looking at your message you're not, AusNS2 is the Australian community, and it goes beyond the competitive. In fact, your message makes no sense since you've talked like if I was putting aside the other groups to make NS2 competitive prevail... I wouldn't have mentioned AusNS2 but whatever...
You might want to search what a community is on Google. Regular players joining always the same servers, including Wooza, Thirsty Onos for instance can be qualified as communities. Otherwise, none of them reaches high number as AusNS2, my beloved and now gone NS2-FR, or even the NSL, etc, do. That's why I was calling the 'real' communities (notice the ''). We also have some clans (barely one or two remaining). But even if they gather people in the same spot, only a few share a couple of things. In the NSL, we all share the competitive mind, do you get it now? All the biggest communities made up once the game was released are dead and the greatest one in term of players which are AusNS2 and the NSL (I'm sorry but that is true) have seen their players dwelling down. AusNS2 is living its last season and the NSL is going to follow very soon.
You may not be a competitive player for whatever reason but those communities I've mentioned are part of the pillars of NS2. Take them away and obviously, you'll see how they were crucial and vital. It's not about being mighty or haughty, it's all truth. UWE hardly supported competitive, and so did (does?) the CDT. This has consequences. The day those leftovers will be definitely forsaken, the game will be more than dead already. Plenty of the 'old players' have played competitive and you won't be able to make them return if there's no competitive scene anywhere. Hopefully, we have willing people working on their free time (as the CDT) from AusNS2 and the NSL to ensure there will always be a place to play competitive. But how long do you think we're gonna keep that way?
...lol? This sentiment is a perfect example of why the competitive
community comes off so high and mighty, or that their players are the
only one's whose opinions are worth listening to.
If it were true, I wouldn't be here talking and neither of the other competitive players. Which are quite many in here anyway. But it's always funny to watch that kind of reaction. Although it is false statement, in the other hand, most of the competitive players (apart Div 4) are old players, here for a while already, they know the game and how it works. You got the same with public players of course, but those never experienced all the features NS2 can afford. I'm not saying competitive player > public player though but contrary to public, there's no beginner or rookie from competitive. But whatever, it's depressing to notice how some people react whenever they see a comp player opening his mouth...
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
Let me bring up the importance of competitive in community here:
In NS1 people used to constantly ask competitive players in public games about their upcoming games that weekend. Asking about about fade vs marine matchups, lerk importance, map strategy, etc etc. And come the weekend these games would all be on Half-Life TV and so, so many more people would show up to watch. There was more teams than NS2 had and only 2 divisions, and that made such excitement build up through the season.
You can see it in League of Legends, everyone plays the game they like, they watch competitive players play certain ways and mimic that. The patch changes to buff/nerf characters in MOBAs in anaologue to different maps in NS, as far as I'm concerned here. This builds up excitement through the week for the matches on the weekend.
You can see it in football, american football, baseball, hockey, any sport. Every game is an e-sport, and it being competitive doesn't rely on that fact. But having a community on a server is one thing, and having something that brings the communities of many servers together into one community for specific events is another, bigger thing. Watching specifically exciting matchups of players that are just plain better than most is plain human nature.
But if we manage even half of what we want to do I am pretty confident that we WILL get people back
I'm not asking what you have planned but instead: (follow me for a moment)
"People back" means people who left. They left for many different reasons. This last sentence is suggesting, they will come back:
Because everything is ok now. Well I doubt everything will be fixed over night with the new build.
Some kind of event. They might come back for something big. But it would only be temporary or worse. They would come back only for this event. And it doesn't solve the "how to reach them?" problem.
Something that will potently bring players back and new ones that will stay. Frankly i agree with @bonage on that one :"Now, the term ‘relaunch’ has been tossed around by several
CDT members, which I think is a very misleading term. Without any radical
changes, a so called relaunch will have exactly the same results as the other
major UWE content releases. Spikes for a month or so, then slowly shedding
players again." . I may add "Radical wanted (and suggested) changes by this forum community".
Including some kind of Combat mod to appeal the masses. We already know the legal issue is a problem. NS != Combat etc...
So i cannot imagine this "half" would fix anything.
I'm beginning to think that the CDT is starting to behave the same as any game company. Big announcement for a small package delivered. If you want an example, Fallout 4 will be out (soon?). Everyone knows it's gonna be Fallout 3 with minor improvements (if there is some). But you already can pre-order it...
I know CDT is producing free work, on their own time, while having Real Life and what's come with it. But in the mean time it's awkward to throw the "relaunch" topic without solid stuff for it. Heavy stuff indeed. So the best is to keep whatever it is for you (all CDT). And then, when the next build is out, we'll see. And we'll judge.
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited June 2015
yeah people left the game, we might get some back we might get some new people in the long run. I phrased that sentence wrong.
I can say for certain the next build wont fix everything, nor will the build after that.
Sure a new map in the next patch is good news for those of us who are STILL HERE its an announcment for the CURRENT playerbase, its not being aimed any anyone else its just somthing new /different for people to try therefore giving us more time to get more stuff done.
Yeah people have mentioned a relaunch several times but its NOT the next patch. Should UWE let us "relaunch the game" it wont be soon. Also its not just 1 map and optimsations (aka next patch) that wont really get any attention now will it? We have several objectives we will need to get done before we relaunch the game.
Then that would mean that the average play time moves between 3 and 5 hours, which I think is implausible.
I am a filthy casual that play 2-3 hrs when I actually play. But yeah, you are probably right. It is implausible that the average play time is 3-5 hrs each.
But whatever, it's depressing to notice how some people react whenever they see a comp player opening his mouth...
It's not that you are just "a comp player opening his mouth," It's the fact that you have only included 2 communities which in my opinion have never made up the bulk of ns2 players. I have, in fact visited the AusNS2 forums in the past, and was kind of shocked by how they seemed to be populated by troll after troll. Shining example of community there, eh? Maybe it used to be better?
Maybe you remember I said I wasnt trying to knock the comp scene, or comp players. Well that's still true... I just really don't think you can use soley those 2 communities as superlatives or archetypes as a representation of the playerbase. Yes, I've noticed the roster changed in the nsl over the past couple seasons, yes I've noticed a lot of players aren't around anymore. Doesn't mean there's less pub players because of it. In fact I think it's because of less and less pub players that less and less people are attracted to play competitvely, especially considering the learning curve for new players. PPL who want to play games competitively also tend to have tendencies of playing other games competitively too, so it's not surprising that w/ this games age and w/ other FPS having come out over the past couple years, that there are less comp players/interest.
Here's geography tab from steam spy:
Clearly besides "Other," North America has by far the largest player base (include Canada) w/ 27.5%, with RUSSIA a suprising third. So again, I simply disagree that you can use the Aus (5% of players) community or NSL to surmise the depth of our communal makeup.
As far as the median play time being so low, why are 14000 + ppl a day opening ns2 just to close it? Dunno. I'm not sure where they come and go to, but imagine if we could get more to stick around. The point of sharing that was to show ppl that we're not on our "death bed."
@mattji104 again I'm not knockin comp players or the scene. I see and agree that it is good. However, you know as well as I that it's not nearly as easy to get what you want out of watching comp matches since you cannot 1st person spec. The commander over-head is really not as exciting as free look 3rd person or 1st person spec, which I know have been sort of introduced over the years as mods for specs in the server, but not for ppl watching in something like twitch. Also, ns was a mod of probably the most popular game of it's era... obviously there's going to have been LOOOOTS more people giving it attention. Fast forward 10 years and the landscape of gaming has changed entirely. Indie company releases stellar fps/rts hybrid, and still has players almost 3 years after official release, pretty astounding in today's market. Could it have been better? Probably. Either way, I'm thankful work continues.
*EDIT: sorry don't know how to do spoilers anymore. I cant stand this new forum interface! Quoting is a pain in the ass, and impossible on my phone now...
I really like to hear steam spy's number because it is big. It has been pointed out to me how inaccurate that website is right now, since it is new. It is now: 12,997 ± 3,036 (0.83%) people who open ns2 at least once every 2 weeks. Playtime in the last 2 weeks has been 04:04 (average) 00:45 (median). The median here is telling, meaning that the data steamspy works with has most players playing around either 45 seconds or 45 minutes when they do play. Either playtime seems off, showing how reliable this data may be right now.
Then that would mean that the average play time moves between 3 and 5 hours, which I think is implausible.
more implausible than 50 seconds of play? i think either are implausible, but...from what i've seen, the active playerbase does tend to play at least a round or two before quitting. that seems to match up well with a 45 minute median playtime.
*edit* let's assume you're correct, which means that the average playtime of a unique player is 4 minutes.
of the ~1000 unique players per day, this means a total of ~4000 player-minutes total per day. a full 32-player server will exhaust this amount of player-minutes in 2 hours of real time. We all know that the 32 player+ servers are full at least 12 hours a day, so your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
I think it's more likely that the :45 refer to 45 minutes playtime over 2 weeks. which means the average player plays 4 hours over a 2 week time span. That seems pretty reasonable.
I don't play as much because I spend too much time waiting to get on the server I want to play on with my friends. I wait for an average of 30 mins and have no clue how many others are trying to connect as well or where in the queue I am, this frustrates me.
I have gone and played elsewhere but it lacks the camaraderie of playing with folks you know.
I don't play as much because I spend too much time waiting to get on the server I want to play on with my friends. I wait for an average of 30 mins and have no clue how many others are trying to connect as well or where in the queue I am, this frustrates me.
I have gone and played elsewhere but it lacks the camaraderie of playing with folks you know.
Anyone else have this problem?
yes i blame @SupaFred aka "the Sep Blatter of pub NS2 in europe' for not giving me a reserved slot.
I don't play as much because I spend too much time waiting to get on the server I want to play on with my friends. I wait for an average of 30 mins and have no clue how many others are trying to connect as well or where in the queue I am, this frustrates me.
I have gone and played elsewhere but it lacks the camaraderie of playing with folks you know.
Anyone else have this problem?
Yea the only server I'll play on outside of pugs/gathers is the Captains Server. And it loses it's fun as we let more than 8v8 happen. I mean, that's comp mod too I guess, but I wouldn't want to play without those changes.
So, for me atleast it's not only that there's only one server with people I want to play with, but there's literally only one server I can enjoy available ever based on gameplay
PelargirJoin Date: 2013-07-02Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
Listening to a few people, everything is fine. NS2 playerbase is fine and there's no reason to worry about.
I assume all the communities I used to know that died or are going to must only be a joke and it's not real.
It's cool to look at numbers, it's even better to look at the good ones, and those that make sense in our matter. I've played that game for almost 3.000 hours, I don't want it to die anytime soon but I will never throw numbers to contradict the truth, there's no point in doing this. Or you're disillusioned.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Then that would mean that the average play time moves between 3 and 5 hours, which I think is implausible.
Hmm http://steamcharts.com/app/4920 says 214 players average last month. 14 days of 214 players produced about about 72000 hours, so spreading that over 14000 players says about 5 hours median time.
So the 4:43 sounds pretty much like a very plausible average.
I think it's more likely that the :45 refer to 45 minutes playtime over 2 weeks. which means the average player plays 4 hours over a 2 week time span. That seems pretty reasonable.
Yes, this sounds most reasonable. Didn't cross my mind.
Comments
OF WHAT YEAR EXACTLY ?
This video needs more views kk
it may be wishful thinking but what we got planned (and what I want to do) should get more people back in and I am not talking just ns2 derelict here. In the end though if it does not work atleast those still around get more new FREE content ??????????
But if we manage even half of what we want to do I am pretty confident that we WILL get people back
I'm not trying to knock comp players or the comp community at all, I just really don't think that can be used as an accurate gauge.
BTW, look here: http://steamspy.com/app/4920
If you click on the tab that shows audience in 2 weeks, you'll see that even just yesterday, there was approximately 14,000 people who fired up ns2. Only 300 some odd concurrent players, but obviously players on the opposite side of the world will have different "prime time" hours. Here's a quick view for those who don't want to link over.
You might want to search what a community is on Google. Regular players joining always the same servers, including Wooza, Thirsty Onos for instance can be qualified as communities. Otherwise, none of them reaches high number as AusNS2, my beloved and now gone NS2-FR, or even the NSL, etc, do. That's why I was calling the 'real' communities (notice the ''). We also have some clans (barely one or two remaining). But even if they gather people in the same spot, only a few share a couple of things. In the NSL, we all share the competitive mind, do you get it now? All the biggest communities made up once the game was released are dead and the greatest one in term of players which are AusNS2 and the NSL (I'm sorry but that is true) have seen their players dwelling down. AusNS2 is living its last season and the NSL is going to follow very soon.
You may not be a competitive player for whatever reason but those communities I've mentioned are part of the pillars of NS2. Take them away and obviously, you'll see how they were crucial and vital. It's not about being mighty or haughty, it's all truth. UWE hardly supported competitive, and so did (does?) the CDT. This has consequences. The day those leftovers will be definitely forsaken, the game will be more than dead already. Plenty of the 'old players' have played competitive and you won't be able to make them return if there's no competitive scene anywhere. Hopefully, we have willing people working on their free time (as the CDT) from AusNS2 and the NSL to ensure there will always be a place to play competitive. But how long do you think we're gonna keep that way?
If it were true, I wouldn't be here talking and neither of the other competitive players. Which are quite many in here anyway. But it's always funny to watch that kind of reaction. Although it is false statement, in the other hand, most of the competitive players (apart Div 4) are old players, here for a while already, they know the game and how it works. You got the same with public players of course, but those never experienced all the features NS2 can afford. I'm not saying competitive player > public player though but contrary to public, there's no beginner or rookie from competitive. But whatever, it's depressing to notice how some people react whenever they see a comp player opening his mouth...
(follow me for a moment)
"People back" means people who left. They left for many different reasons. This last sentence is suggesting, they will come back:
So i cannot imagine this "half" would fix anything.
I'm beginning to think that the CDT is starting to behave the same as any game company. Big announcement for a small package delivered. If you want an example, Fallout 4 will be out (soon?). Everyone knows it's gonna be Fallout 3 with minor improvements (if there is some). But you already can pre-order it...
I know CDT is producing free work, on their own time, while having Real Life and what's come with it. But in the mean time it's awkward to throw the "relaunch" topic without solid stuff for it. Heavy stuff indeed. So the best is to keep whatever it is for you (all CDT). And then, when the next build is out, we'll see. And we'll judge.
I can say for certain the next build wont fix everything, nor will the build after that.
Sure a new map in the next patch is good news for those of us who are STILL HERE its an announcment for the CURRENT playerbase, its not being aimed any anyone else its just somthing new /different for people to try therefore giving us more time to get more stuff done.
Yeah people have mentioned a relaunch several times but its NOT the next patch. Should UWE let us "relaunch the game" it wont be soon. Also its not just 1 map and optimsations (aka next patch) that wont really get any attention now will it? We have several objectives we will need to get done before we relaunch the game.
Maybe you remember I said I wasnt trying to knock the comp scene, or comp players. Well that's still true... I just really don't think you can use soley those 2 communities as superlatives or archetypes as a representation of the playerbase. Yes, I've noticed the roster changed in the nsl over the past couple seasons, yes I've noticed a lot of players aren't around anymore. Doesn't mean there's less pub players because of it. In fact I think it's because of less and less pub players that less and less people are attracted to play competitvely, especially considering the learning curve for new players. PPL who want to play games competitively also tend to have tendencies of playing other games competitively too, so it's not surprising that w/ this games age and w/ other FPS having come out over the past couple years, that there are less comp players/interest.
Here's geography tab from steam spy:
Clearly besides "Other," North America has by far the largest player base (include Canada) w/ 27.5%, with RUSSIA a suprising third. So again, I simply disagree that you can use the Aus (5% of players) community or NSL to surmise the depth of our communal makeup.
As far as the median play time being so low, why are 14000 + ppl a day opening ns2 just to close it? Dunno. I'm not sure where they come and go to, but imagine if we could get more to stick around. The point of sharing that was to show ppl that we're not on our "death bed."
@mattji104 again I'm not knockin comp players or the scene. I see and agree that it is good. However, you know as well as I that it's not nearly as easy to get what you want out of watching comp matches since you cannot 1st person spec. The commander over-head is really not as exciting as free look 3rd person or 1st person spec, which I know have been sort of introduced over the years as mods for specs in the server, but not for ppl watching in something like twitch. Also, ns was a mod of probably the most popular game of it's era... obviously there's going to have been LOOOOTS more people giving it attention. Fast forward 10 years and the landscape of gaming has changed entirely. Indie company releases stellar fps/rts hybrid, and still has players almost 3 years after official release, pretty astounding in today's market. Could it have been better? Probably. Either way, I'm thankful work continues.
*EDIT: sorry don't know how to do spoilers anymore. I cant stand this new forum interface! Quoting is a pain in the ass, and impossible on my phone now...
12,997 ± 3,036 (0.83%) people who open ns2 at least once every 2 weeks. Playtime in the last 2 weeks has been 04:04 (average) 00:45 (median). The median here is telling, meaning that the data steamspy works with has most players playing around either 45 seconds or 45 minutes when they do play. Either playtime seems off, showing how reliable this data may be right now.
more implausible than 50 seconds of play? i think either are implausible, but...from what i've seen, the active playerbase does tend to play at least a round or two before quitting. that seems to match up well with a 45 minute median playtime.
*edit* let's assume you're correct, which means that the average playtime of a unique player is 4 minutes.
of the ~1000 unique players per day, this means a total of ~4000 player-minutes total per day. a full 32-player server will exhaust this amount of player-minutes in 2 hours of real time. We all know that the 32 player+ servers are full at least 12 hours a day, so your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
I think it's more likely that the :45 refer to 45 minutes playtime over 2 weeks. which means the average player plays 4 hours over a 2 week time span. That seems pretty reasonable.
I have gone and played elsewhere but it lacks the camaraderie of playing with folks you know.
Anyone else have this problem?
Yea the only server I'll play on outside of pugs/gathers is the Captains Server. And it loses it's fun as we let more than 8v8 happen. I mean, that's comp mod too I guess, but I wouldn't want to play without those changes.
So, for me atleast it's not only that there's only one server with people I want to play with, but there's literally only one server I can enjoy available ever based on gameplay
I assume all the communities I used to know that died or are going to must only be a joke and it's not real.
It's cool to look at numbers, it's even better to look at the good ones, and those that make sense in our matter. I've played that game for almost 3.000 hours, I don't want it to die anytime soon but I will never throw numbers to contradict the truth, there's no point in doing this. Or you're disillusioned.
So the 4:43 sounds pretty much like a very plausible average.
Pelargir said: This comment is ridiculous and on par with anti-vacciners. I'm not saying you're wrong, but this comment here is just stupid.