Combat mod, will it ever re-surface?

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Comments

  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I agree with Martigen, make money from other things, make a level system that gives players a chance to join the game with some different perks (not really game changing perks, but would make a difference in 1v1) that they can take game to game, so there for you could sell in an app store like XP boosts? Custom items / skins etc etc.

    Combat would and is a great game to play, always enjoyed playing rounds, both in Ns1 and Ns2, just going standalone ruind it for me slighty as i had to exit and start a new game and with the loading times on a HDD was not worth it.

    But getting a F2P moudle would work, as it would promt players to perhaps go and buy Ns2, so UWE get some money from it, and combat gets some from an app store / DLC sorta stuff.
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Members
    You all know uwe doesn't make combat, right?
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    _Grendel_ wrote: »
    You all know uwe doesn't make combat, right?

    Yes but considering UWE own the rights and all the licensing blah de blah, they make the ultimate decision and end up with a large portion of the money I presume.
  • tallhotblondetallhotblonde Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174770Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    You cant make one F2P and not the other thats the problem now. What effect would F2P combat have on NS2 and vice-versa.
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    F2P combat would be good for both games, it may go both ways for NS2, it could increase sales a little on NS2, as some people would want to play it after they play combat, they could look for a new challenge in NS2, but could go the other way, but overall the question is, Why not? what is there to really lose?! players? money? time? there is not much to lose, with combat have little to no playerbase and NS2 having a small dedicated one, why not?
  • tallhotblondetallhotblonde Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174770Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    Err like I said. They'd have to make both games ftp. That's the problem.

    The better model is ns2 ftp and combat £1.99 Dlc because combat has all the bells and whistles and actually out dates ns2 in style when you look at them side by side.

    But it's a waste of time talking about it all. UWE has a bunch of mugs improving their game for free while we lose 10% player base a month and as long as subnantica continues to pay the pool boy I don't think Charlie gives a fukc.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Err like I said. They'd have to make both games ftp. That's the problem.

    The better model is ns2 ftp and combat £1.99 Dlc because combat has all the bells and whistles and actually out dates ns2 in style when you look at them side by side.

    But it's a waste of time talking about it all. UWE has a bunch of mugs improving their game for free while we lose 10% player base a month and as long as subnantica continues to pay the pool boy I don't think Charlie gives a fukc.

    Wait wow, I totally disagree with you. If combat is f2p, it solves the problem of ns2 not being f2p. And then ns2 doesn't get ruined by f2p, but might actually get people to play ns2
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    UWE are publisher's, so control pricing future direction etc. This means the decisions for whether the game goes F2P or not is entirely in their hands.

    You have to remember Faultline are part-time developers, as in they have full-time jobs, and there aren't as many active developers as there once were, so updates take a considerable amount of time.

    However, saying that, the people left working on the game, and the testers etc who are helping support the development process are all working well together, and the game is definitely moving in the right direction.

    I wish more people would just put aside previous opinions, and especially those who have already purchased Combat, fire it up and give it a try.

    For me the game is a lot more enjoyable with the latest update, although I still suck..
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    I'll start playing combat now if I have promise and proof that they're working toward making it f2p. I bought 4copies of that shit and gave it away to do my part, I'd say all 4 copies have less than 5 hours played total.

    There was never a competitive game of combat when it was new, so it was never fun to most of the playerbase whp was willing to pay that price.

    If you make it f2p maybe I can find a game with similar skill levels, but they actually do not exist right now
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Members
    Stream going on right now.



    Server's full....again :/
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited September 2015
    Loaded it up a couple of days back when what's his face was streaming, anyway...

    Problems still in game

    Lerk spores linger for too long and do too much damage for marine resupply to deal with(resupply too slow)

    Fades are overpowered with focus, acid rocket and that hunger crap or what ever it's called now.

    Marines move way too fast with cybernetics or what ever it's called now, you could theoretically outrun a lerk with pistol and jump, skulk with celerity + leap(vsing good marines vs good aliens of which there are none playing combat)

    Hydras knockback is a nice feature however it is too strong, it could be implemented better, right now it feels like you are being teleported away rather then pushed away so aim goes off balance easily and a gorge can solo you in some cases which doesn't make sense vs a fully upgraded jetpacker.

    Hit registration for rifle/lmg is crap (i think due to low firing rate)

    skulking feels clunky at times sort of like BF2 jumping at times (leap)


    I really like the co_legacy(co_faceoff renamed and changed a bit)

    It's not the place to post about it, but update the ns2 combat mod and more people will play, if it wasn't sabotaged by FLG and people who helped mod it, we'd probably have 1 large combat server filled up right now on NS2.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    mattji104 wrote: »
    I'll start playing combat now if I have promise and proof that they're working toward making it f2p.

    As I said, that decision is made by UWE, not Faultline. Faultline will not be working toward F2P until UWE say they can. The game has just had permission to get a price cut, so I doubt they'd give permission to look at F2P just yet.
  • Locke504Locke504 Join Date: 2010-04-23 Member: 71511Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited September 2015
    nizb0ag wrote: »
    Loaded it up a couple of days back when what's his face was streaming, anyway...

    Problems still in game

    Lerk spores linger for too long and do too much damage for marine resupply to deal with(resupply too slow)

    Fades are overpowered with focus, acid rocket and that hunger crap or what ever it's called now.

    Marines move way too fast with cybernetics or what ever it's called now, you could theoretically outrun a lerk with pistol and jump, skulk with celerity + leap(vsing good marines vs good aliens of which there are none playing combat)

    Hydras knockback is a nice feature however it is too strong, it could be implemented better, right now it feels like you are being teleported away rather then pushed away so aim goes off balance easily and a gorge can solo you in some cases which doesn't make sense vs a fully upgraded jetpacker.

    Hit registration for rifle/lmg is crap (i think due to low firing rate)

    skulking feels clunky at times sort of like BF2 jumping at times (leap)


    I really like the co_legacy(co_faceoff renamed and changed a bit)

    It's not the place to post about it, but update the ns2 combat mod and more people will play, if it wasn't sabotaged by FLG and people who helped mod it, we'd probably have 1 large combat server filled up right now on NS2.

    For a lot of this feedback, lerk spores, marine rune speed, skulk feeling different I would ask you to keep in mind you are playing a different game than NS2. A lot of the abilities that combat has in common with ns2 have had various changes made to them and so things may appear odd at first.

    Marine run speed for example, is an upgrade with 3 levels. Using three points to max that ability will definitely effect your loadout and weapons / armor levels. If it's weapons you're not killing high carapace aliens all that quickly. If it's armor aliens with focus are going to kill you in 2-3 hits. You compensate in those levels by not buying another weapon and stick with the lmg. It's interesting you think this is overpowered considering it's one of the least purchased upgrades for marines. I know how strong it can be and I still tend not to take it in favor of a jetpack or a 2 point weapon.

    I hear most people say the hit reg is actually better in combat than ns2, although I don't know any specifics about what is different.

    The fade did get a bit of a buff with acid rocket and double jump. TBH acid rocket is something we're watching closely right now but we wanted to get feedback from more players before tweaking further. (Thanks for the feedback). The fade is certainly a strong class at all points in the game, but it hasn't had its hp changed from previous builds. There are several weapons in the marine arsenal that are really strong against them. Using the right build it's possible to easily 2 shot them.

    From a lot of the feedback I'm hearing though, it does sound like a better job could be done of informing players of this information. Like, it's not readily apparent to anyone that the cannon is a super strong anti-fade weapon, or that sentries and mines are great for base defense. It seems really natural to me because I have probably close to 3k hours between combat and ns2 so sometimes it's easy to miss things like that.

    Again, thanks for the feedback and glad you enjoyed legacy. It's a super pretty map.
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Members
    edited September 2015
    ^ Pretty much sums it up. Combat's a bit tricky to get used to if you've got a ton of hours into ns2. Combat has the same lifeforms, but they do play very differently. Even the controls feel different. For instance the lerk is super twitchy in Combat. Also Combat's not balanced towards super competitiveness; it's balanced towards fun and big crazy battles (which it does very well imo). If hyper balanced competitive play is what you're after, I'd stick with ns2.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Two shotting lerks before they even know what happened is very fun.
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Locke504 wrote: »
    I would ask you to keep in mind you are playing a different game than NS2. A lot of the abilities that combat has in common with ns2 have had various changes made to them and so things may appear odd at first.

    No matter how much anyone spins this connotion that it's a different game it won't get through to the majority of people, That's another thing you are forgetting that a large population of people came from NS1/NS2 and NS2 Combat is broadly NS1 combat but on NS2 engine except less balanced, You're also forgetting that it's not a different game just because you changed a few aesthetics and implemented a different game mode. The mechanics are pretty much identical, hitbox, type of movement and aim, I'd say that Combat is akin to something like <build 200 NS2 with NS1+Xmenu+bunch of amxx/metamod mods combat mechanics attached to it.

    Also cybernetics is fun to play with but overpowered when you are actually good at the game.
    I hear most people say the hit reg is actually better in combat than ns2, although I don't know any specifics about what is different.

    hnnnnng
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    Don't forget that 50% of the players right now have a high ping. That is normaly not the case in ns2 and you might conceive it differently because of that.

    Yesterday I was playing around in combat as skulk. and someone tried to hunt me down with speed 3 and a welder. And it was not very hard to stay out of reach. And I had cele0. Also, as mentioned before, no-one ever spends 3 points for speed if he/she can buy something more usefull. Like a SG and a JP.
    Have you seen a Fade with shadowstep? Or a cele3 Lerk? They are so freaking fast, you would think your speed3 rines is sitting on a bench, taking a break if they pass by.
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited September 2015
    Don't forget that 50% of the players right now have a high ping. That is normaly not the case in ns2 and you might conceive it differently because of that.

    Yesterday I was playing around in combat as skulk. and someone tried to hunt me down with speed 3 and a welder. And it was not very hard to stay out of reach. And I had cele0. Also, as mentioned before, no-one ever spends 3 points for speed if he/she can buy something more usefull. Like a SG and a JP.
    Have you seen a Fade with shadowstep? Or a cele3 Lerk? They are so freaking fast, you would think your speed3 rines is sitting on a bench, taking a break if they pass by.


    Tried playing Woozas, siege, Diamondgamers or even MCG? they all have 50+% people 200-400ms, in your case it's actually harder to play combat with lag because of the hit registration, it feels worse.

    Your example is flawed because the person who was on marines with cybernetics wasn't very good with it. Again the majority of games i've played on NS2:Combat had marines with full speed upgrades, you're cherry picking here because we know that fade is overpowered by a shit-ton.

    Cannon has a place in the game but isn't worth the rebuy value just to shoot a fade once or twice when it has gorge that is near invulnerable healing it, regen, hunger and a whole bunch of other upgrades which makes it almost impossible to kill without 2 sgers at full lvl 3 + a cannon. (watch whats his names twitch for examples for a few days ago)

    Dunno, i've managed to outrun a fade, lerk and skulk before on combat (not in straight line, but in actual combat where it matters, then if you switch to pistol mid battle to dodge them it's actually far faster and breaks the simple speed barrier, it's like going mach 20 on a mach 10 marine)

    I just wonder, could you guys be a little more reasonable and maybe bring the mod back to the actual game? and talk about having mid co/ns2 changes.

    Thanks.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I believe there are a number of reasons this would be impractical, the largest one being Combat is 64-bit only, and needs to be for all the tech types. To incorporate Combat into NS2, would require changes to the engine AND removal of 32-bit support.

    I think there are many, many NS2 gamers who would be upset if you switched it to a 64-bit only game just so you could have a fix of combat with your NS2.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited September 2015
    Soul_Rider wrote: »
    I believe there are a number of reasons this would be impractical, the largest one being Combat is 64-bit only, and needs to be for all the tech types. To incorporate Combat into NS2, would require changes to the engine AND removal of 32-bit support.

    I think there are many, many NS2 gamers who would be upset if you switched it to a 64-bit only game just so you could have a fix of combat with your NS2.

    Combat is as much a 32bit application as NS2. A 64-bit OS with less than 3 GB RAM runs into the same issues as a 32 bit OS with the same amount of memory. So ppl who are able to run NS2 will have no issue running Combat as well. In fact combat on average allocated less RAM than NS2.

    The real reason Combat won't be and is not a DLC/Addon for NS2 is because UWE and FLG decided so. By having two separated applications each of those parties is not dependent on the each other which i guess was one of the most important reasons to split NS2 and Combat.
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Soul_Rider wrote: »
    I believe there are a number of reasons this would be impractical, the largest one being Combat is 64-bit only, and needs to be for all the tech types. To incorporate Combat into NS2, would require changes to the engine AND removal of 32-bit support.

    I think there are many, many NS2 gamers who would be upset if you switched it to a 64-bit only game just so you could have a fix of combat with your NS2.


    Explain "needs to be for all tech types" Have you even attempted or know anyone who has attempted to port some of the features to NS2? last night i spent a few hours playing around with the LUA files and mixing it with current build NS2 and old combat mod, got as far as implementing the main-menu(refuses to render mainmenu till actually in a map) i let it accept either co, ns2 as map choices when creating server, in server join etc , works fine when in game, i patched the old combat mod and replaced and jerry rigged some of the things like interfaces and weapons/hydras/structures.

    Main problem is a multitude of incompatibility not due to 64bit, but due to them renaming and giving functions prefixes, even existing functions in ns2 which are exactly the same in combat they just use shitty prefixes which is time consuming to change (i don't know how to use lua properly)

    Don't know, just frustrated that i cannot just change the map in NS2 to a CO map, have it apply the CO mod and not have to worry about anything, it seems that some people just aren't thinking about things straight these days when it comes to satisfaction and actually trying to fix issues that otherwise shouldn't exist.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited September 2015
    nizb0ag wrote: »
    Have you even attempted or know anyone who has attempted to port some of the features to NS2?
    No because without permission by FLG you aren't allowed by international laws to publish any work based on the combat mod or the combat SA. I am pretty aware that it's technically not hard to do.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    I actually tried combat mod yesterday.
    Its seems much improved since the last time, long ago, since i played it.

    Its not 100% yet, but I actually had fun playing it for a very long time.
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Members
    I herd the biggest reason they stopped supporting 32 bit was they removed (or set a higher limit) the entity limit. You could 100% run combat on 32 bit, but you might crash do to maxed out memory. So (and this is an assumption) they wanted to leave room for expansion beyond the limits of 32 bit.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited September 2015
    _Grendel_ wrote: »
    I herd the biggest reason they stopped supporting 32 bit was they removed (or set a higher limit) the entity limit. You could 100% run combat on 32 bit, but you might crash do to maxed out memory. So (and this is an assumption) they wanted to leave room for expansion beyond the limits of 32 bit.

    Read my previous post. Combat is also only a 32bit application. IIRC FLG dropped 32 bit back then to avoid having to support and deal with player who have to less memory to play (NS2 had a lot issues with memory leaks back then (got fixed around build 265/266).

    In case someone wants prove: just have a look at the details of this virustotal report
  • Perman12Perman12 Campuchia Join Date: 2015-01-31 Member: 201130Members
    edited September 2015
    i hate lazy developers
    when customer have problem with 32bit , i ask them fix with a patch

    next day they drop it and say :" Thank you for your patient , make sure you upgrade your PC to 64 bit cuz we dont care about your problem > We hold your Money already , safe and sound in our pocket :)"
    facts-about-monsanto1.jpg
    You know to use a spoiler. -Iron


    Thats why its DEAD . They deserve it ( you harvest back what you sow to people ) , not like NS2 developers CDT . At least they even try ....

    Paid Mod >> Greed will make you have motivation to do things ... But in this case NS2:Combat have droped down into the depth of "Greed People insert name drop here"
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2015
    Perman12 wrote: »
    i hate lazy developers
    when customer have problem with 32bit , i ask them fix with a patch

    next day they drop it and say :" Thank you for your patient , make sure you upgrade your PC to 64 bit cuz we dont care about your problem > We hold your Money already , safe and sound in our pocket :)"



    Thats why its DEAD . They deserve it ( you harvest back what you sow to people ) , not like NS2 developers CDT . At least they even try ....

    Paid Mod >> Greed will make you have motivation to do things ... But in this case NS2:Combat have droped down into the depth of "Greed People insert name drop here"

    I dont think for 1 min, that is a problem now a days, as everything "should" run, not matter if it is 32 or 64. But look at it this way, your just one user, if you have an issue with a program/game not running, maybe there is a few others, i dont think they will devote what little time they have to fix an issue that can be resolved from your end, would you not rather them work on more meaningful stuff? Engine improvments (Who knows that alone could fix your issue) Game Balance, new content.

    I dont think they only think about the money they can make, as they wouldnt make much when it comes to NS2:Combat.
  • Locke504Locke504 Join Date: 2010-04-23 Member: 71511Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited September 2015
    Perman12 wrote: »
    i hate lazy developers

    Perfectly depicted here are the FLG developers. :lol:

    I wonder if I can photoshop all those 20 dollar bills into like 1's and those winglasses to like boxed wine or something. Even those cigars should be gas station cigarellos.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited September 2015
    _Grendel_ wrote: »
    I herd the biggest reason they stopped supporting 32 bit was they removed (or set a higher limit) the entity limit. You could 100% run combat on 32 bit, but you might crash do to maxed out memory. So (and this is an assumption) they wanted to leave room for expansion beyond the limits of 32 bit.

    Read my previous post. Combat is also only a 32bit application. IIRC FLG dropped 32 bit back then to avoid having to support and deal with player who have to less memory to play (NS2 had a lot issues with memory leaks back then (got fixed around build 265/266).

    In case someone wants prove: just have a look at the details of this virustotal report

    I think you'll find that there are more issues than that.

    For example, when developing CTF with the intention of being a new game mode for Combat, after adding 3 new kTechData types, we hit the limit of the max number of datatypes in 32bit, so as this is a 64bit exectuable, datatypes was changed to 64bit, to hold all the relevant data.

    Although CTF is no longer part of the game, with the additional items added in the last few updates, I am fairly sure they are again over this 32bit limit, which means they would have to cut tech from the game to make it 32-bit compatible.

    ---Edit---

    My point being with all the items in techtypes in NS2 and Combat, in a single group, combat would need a lot of it's custom items cut.
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