I have a "casual" mod in development, called Evolved which is already available on steam workshop.
More testing/servers and feedback would be much appreciated!
For starter, Skulks can perform a mini-leap when jumping on the floor (which also helps rookies discover walljumping "by accident"), while marines start with more armor and a dodge jump to compensate. There are currently over 100 major and minor changes aimed at making learning easier and reducing power snowballing.
you're going to have to give skulks more health too i think.
make it an actual slug fest maybe.
Skulks do start with 130 total health in my mod.
Nobody likes being forced to play as a fodder, especially when marines can kill a Skulk almost instantly late game. What feels worse is getting stomped without Leap. With some compensations to marines (such as more starting armor, or better Sentries), Leap could be made available on one Hive. I think a lot of edge cases in NS2 like this still need more attention to help reduce new player rage quitting.
would it be possible
hear me out now,
to do something like,
every 500 hive points you have drops your damage output by 15 percent?
so at 1000 hive point you're doing 70 percent damage
at 2000 points you're doing 50 percent damage
at 3000 points you're doing 30 percent damage?
i would play the shit out of that mod. you gotta work at it to bring down your enemy, tweak the ratio as necessary.
god, that'd be fun.
can we get someone to implement this? please please pretty please with a cherry on top?
This was already attempted - or rather you could turn down your own damage manually. And it blows.
Good players will still rek rookie skulks even down to 30% dmg. But once lerks comes out - you can have a very mediocre lerk spike you to death - even though you're hitting most of your shots lerk spike just out dps's you. That's just the lerks, forget about trying to frag the fades..
It's just not a fun or interesting experience imo - and it's not good training either. You develop bad habits with these types of handicaps.
In my opinion, it didn't solve the problem that it seeked out to, instead it just adds new frustrations from my point of view.
i don't know, i'd be hard pressed to kill an lmg marine if i had to bite him 6 times out the gate, even a completely new player should be able to kill me if they spray and pray. they've basically got 2 clips to do it in right?
and we're talking about automatic nerfing instead of voluntary. as the rookies gain in skill rating, their damage will be nerfed as well. i mean, you're talking walker fades here for full damage. it might actually be a challenge to kill them if you have to empty 6 clips into them.
and we're talking for rookie servers.
maybe add in so eventually rookies will want to explore other servers, maybe increase their hive score if you're under 250 automatically over hours and hive invariant otherwise.
wouldn't it be ideal if a vet playing on a rookie server could only really kill the rookies 50 percent of the time?
who cares about good training?
it's entirely optional for vets, and the rookies will get a chance to at least get the basics down.
and it might be that a vet's biggest impact on the game may be hopping in the chair, because their damage is so shit.
This kind of things won't work in my opinion. It will remove the marks. A rookie won't understand the changes as he gets skill points that aren't real skill points in the end. It can lead to the same kind of frustration when both players have no penalty, but the veteran is still way above the other one.
The only thing that can be done to preserve this kind of marks is to be able to buy again a lifeform / equipment. It will stay like it is but less unforgiving (same number of bites etc.). Eventually making the rookie spanw faster, they probably won't notice it as it changes over time.
I have a "casual" mod in development, called Evolved which is already available on steam workshop.
More testing/servers and feedback would be much appreciated!
For starter, Skulks can perform a mini-leap when jumping on the floor (which also helps rookies discover walljumping "by accident"), while marines start with more armor and a dodge jump to compensate. There are currently over 100 major and minor changes aimed at making learning easier and reducing power snowballing.
you're going to have to give skulks more health too i think.
make it an actual slug fest maybe.
Skulks do start with 130 total health in my mod.
Nobody likes being forced to play as a fodder, especially when marines can kill a Skulk almost instantly late game. What feels worse is getting stomped without Leap. With some compensations to marines (such as more starting armor, or better Sentries), Leap could be made available on one Hive. I think a lot of edge cases in NS2 like this still need more attention to help reduce new player rage quitting.
would it be possible
hear me out now,
to do something like,
every 500 hive points you have drops your damage output by 15 percent?
so at 1000 hive point you're doing 70 percent damage
at 2000 points you're doing 50 percent damage
at 3000 points you're doing 30 percent damage?
i would play the shit out of that mod. you gotta work at it to bring down your enemy, tweak the ratio as necessary.
god, that'd be fun.
can we get someone to implement this? please please pretty please with a cherry on top?
This was already attempted - or rather you could turn down your own damage manually. And it blows.
Good players will still rek rookie skulks even down to 30% dmg. But once lerks comes out - you can have a very mediocre lerk spike you to death - even though you're hitting most of your shots lerk spike just out dps's you. That's just the lerks, forget about trying to frag the fades..
It's just not a fun or interesting experience imo - and it's not good training either. You develop bad habits with these types of handicaps.
In my opinion, it didn't solve the problem that it seeked out to, instead it just adds new frustrations from my point of view.
i don't know, i'd be hard pressed to kill an lmg marine if i had to bite him 6 times out the gate, even a completely new player should be able to kill me if they spray and pray. they've basically got 2 clips to do it in right?
and we're talking about automatic nerfing instead of voluntary. as the rookies gain in skill rating, their damage will be nerfed as well. i mean, you're talking walker fades here for full damage. it might actually be a challenge to kill them if you have to empty 6 clips into them.
and we're talking for rookie servers.
maybe add in so eventually rookies will want to explore other servers, maybe increase their hive score if you're under 250 automatically over hours and hive invariant otherwise.
wouldn't it be ideal if a vet playing on a rookie server could only really kill the rookies 50 percent of the time?
who cares about good training?
it's entirely optional for vets, and the rookies will get a chance to at least get the basics down.
and it might be that a vet's biggest impact on the game may be hopping in the chair, because their damage is so shit.
I have a "casual" mod in development, called Evolved which is already available on steam workshop.
More testing/servers and feedback would be much appreciated!
For starter, Skulks can perform a mini-leap when jumping on the floor (which also helps rookies discover walljumping "by accident"), while marines start with more armor and a dodge jump to compensate. There are currently over 100 major and minor changes aimed at making learning easier and reducing power snowballing.
you're going to have to give skulks more health too i think.
make it an actual slug fest maybe.
Skulks do start with 130 total health in my mod.
Nobody likes being forced to play as a fodder, especially when marines can kill a Skulk almost instantly late game. What feels worse is getting stomped without Leap. With some compensations to marines (such as more starting armor, or better Sentries), Leap could be made available on one Hive. I think a lot of edge cases in NS2 like this still need more attention to help reduce new player rage quitting.
would it be possible
hear me out now,
to do something like,
every 500 hive points you have drops your damage output by 15 percent?
so at 1000 hive point you're doing 70 percent damage
at 2000 points you're doing 50 percent damage
at 3000 points you're doing 30 percent damage?
i would play the shit out of that mod. you gotta work at it to bring down your enemy, tweak the ratio as necessary.
god, that'd be fun.
can we get someone to implement this? please please pretty please with a cherry on top?
This was already attempted - or rather you could turn down your own damage manually. And it blows.
Good players will still rek rookie skulks even down to 30% dmg. But once lerks comes out - you can have a very mediocre lerk spike you to death - even though you're hitting most of your shots lerk spike just out dps's you. That's just the lerks, forget about trying to frag the fades..
It's just not a fun or interesting experience imo - and it's not good training either. You develop bad habits with these types of handicaps.
In my opinion, it didn't solve the problem that it seeked out to, instead it just adds new frustrations from my point of view.
i don't know, i'd be hard pressed to kill an lmg marine if i had to bite him 6 times out the gate, even a completely new player should be able to kill me if they spray and pray. they've basically got 2 clips to do it in right?
and we're talking about automatic nerfing instead of voluntary. as the rookies gain in skill rating, their damage will be nerfed as well. i mean, you're talking walker fades here for full damage. it might actually be a challenge to kill them if you have to empty 6 clips into them.
and we're talking for rookie servers.
maybe add in so eventually rookies will want to explore other servers, maybe increase their hive score if you're under 250 automatically over hours and hive invariant otherwise.
wouldn't it be ideal if a vet playing on a rookie server could only really kill the rookies 50 percent of the time?
who cares about good training?
it's entirely optional for vets, and the rookies will get a chance to at least get the basics down.
and it might be that a vet's biggest impact on the game may be hopping in the chair, because their damage is so shit.
brb buying smurf account
I wouldn't buy a smurf account for that. And I have a smurf account.
Even worse. You want to give them bad habits as they are in their most vulnerable learning period.
But yea - make a mod for it, maybe it will have traction. Just don't expect me to be anywhere near that kind of server - and don't you dare make this part of the vanilla build!
I could actually see it working. At 4k you might try more of a support role because killing skulks with 90 bullets might be difficult.
God, just hopped into 6v12. Half damage is, difficult. You literally can't outdps med packs, so... But I now realize, it would be intended. Other roles, with rookies being damages dealers.
I could actually see it working. At 4k you might try more of a support role because killing skulks with 90 bullets might be difficult.
I already do the support role of zoning and res defense so no thanks, I'd rather buy a smurf or deliberately haemorrhage skill points just so I could play
But yea - make a mod for it, maybe it will have traction. Just don't expect me to be anywhere near that kind of server - and don't you dare make this part of the vanilla build!
Out of curiosity alone I want to see what reducing all damage given and received to configurable levels (20% vs 60% etc) would do to the balance and the integrity of the game.
How much does it take to break it? We can assume time equates to experience gained to a degree, but is there any benefit at all in a longer Time To Kill?
If there could be a suitable level found that wasn't too disruptive, you could always include it in some sort of "Training" mode where you could play single player OR co-op against halfway decent bot AI (to include at least a few build order aware commanders), with levels of difficulty ranging from "Normal" (100% dmg) to "I've never played an FPS before" (20% dmg) and clearly communicate these numbers... constantly.. to remind them of their status and where they need to be.
Because let's face it, "Sink or swim" kind of sucks when it comes to being accessible - not everybody grew up with faced paced switch shooter / competitive fps games like some of us did.
Maintain a high skill ceiling and game, of course, but why not train those who would otherwise sink?
If you can, that is. I wanna test it at least..
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2015
Perhaps some simple-to-learn teamwork tools should be more readily available (and rebalanced).
For example, how often do you even see Umbra being available when aliens desperately need it? (eg Aliens chose Shade as first Hive, are stuck with one hive, and getting murdered by W2 marines) The Marine counterpart would be the Nano Shield.
Too many tools in NS2 are either "win more" steamrollers, or "lose more" traps that do not help when your team has fallen behind at all. For example, Mines are very powerful early game, but become almost completely obsolete once aliens get two Hives. Spending res on Mines after aliens have Bile Bomb and Fade would usually only accelerate your demise; Sentries have a similar effect. A lot of Marine weapons have an "expiry time", after which they usually become a drain a resources. Unless... your team is winning, then those Mines, Sentries (and Whip) can become massive blockades immensely frustrating for the other team to push through.
But yea - make a mod for it, maybe it will have traction. Just don't expect me to be anywhere near that kind of server - and don't you dare make this part of the vanilla build!
Out of curiosity alone I want to see what reducing all damage given and received to configurable levels (20% vs 60% etc) would do to the balance and the integrity of the game.
How much does it take to break it? We can assume time equates to experience gained to a degree, but is there any benefit at all in a longer Time To Kill?
If there could be a suitable level found that wasn't too disruptive, you could always include it in some sort of "Training" mode where you could play single player OR co-op against halfway decent bot AI (to include at least a few build order aware commanders), with levels of difficulty ranging from "Normal" (100% dmg) to "I've never played an FPS before" (20% dmg) and clearly communicate these numbers... constantly.. to remind them of their status and where they need to be.
Because let's face it, "Sink or swim" kind of sucks when it comes to being accessible - not everybody grew up with faced paced switch shooter / competitive fps games like some of us did.
Maintain a high skill ceiling and game, of course, but why not train those who would otherwise sink?
If you can, that is. I wanna test it at least..
my point was actually something like that, give the rookies time to get comfortable without getting face rolled.
3 bites if fast, so is two meat shots.
if they fade into a good shotgunner, they'll die in 2.5 shots. make that a full clip, and maybe they'll actually run away instead.
also, to a certain extent better players can treat it almost as warmup/combat replacement.
something to get their fingers loose, make sure their biting and their aiming is on point. or to do something mindless without ruining everybody's day.
... med packs... are unfair incidentally.
@IronHorse was playing on that 6v12 server very very briefly.
bit some guy 6-8 times, full speed, not delay between bites, could not break through the med spam.
i'm usually ok with breaking through med spam if all i need is 2 bites nice and close, but when you literally can't outdps medpacks, it makes it difficult.
The real answer for rookies not rage quitting the game and being able to learn fade or lerk without flashing is by making a new game mode. Something, combat orientated. Like a DeathMatch with a points system and when you die as fade you simply re-fade.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... Anyone ever heard of such a thing?
Yea, combat had its good points and some bad, but this was one off the nice parts about it, Being able to join as a new player, learn the basics of combat, Mariens and aleins, join Classic and get rolled. keep playing...get better...etc
Comments
i don't know, i'd be hard pressed to kill an lmg marine if i had to bite him 6 times out the gate, even a completely new player should be able to kill me if they spray and pray. they've basically got 2 clips to do it in right?
and we're talking about automatic nerfing instead of voluntary. as the rookies gain in skill rating, their damage will be nerfed as well. i mean, you're talking walker fades here for full damage. it might actually be a challenge to kill them if you have to empty 6 clips into them.
and we're talking for rookie servers.
maybe add in so eventually rookies will want to explore other servers, maybe increase their hive score if you're under 250 automatically over hours and hive invariant otherwise.
wouldn't it be ideal if a vet playing on a rookie server could only really kill the rookies 50 percent of the time?
who cares about good training?
it's entirely optional for vets, and the rookies will get a chance to at least get the basics down.
and it might be that a vet's biggest impact on the game may be hopping in the chair, because their damage is so shit.
The only thing that can be done to preserve this kind of marks is to be able to buy again a lifeform / equipment. It will stay like it is but less unforgiving (same number of bites etc.). Eventually making the rookie spanw faster, they probably won't notice it as it changes over time.
brb buying smurf account
I wouldn't buy a smurf account for that. And I have a smurf account.
Yes I know that's what you meant, but why in the fuck would you want automatic handicaps when we know that voluntary handicaps are awful?
Even worse. You want to give them bad habits as they are in their most vulnerable learning period.
But yea - make a mod for it, maybe it will have traction. Just don't expect me to be anywhere near that kind of server - and don't you dare make this part of the vanilla build!
God, just hopped into 6v12. Half damage is, difficult. You literally can't outdps med packs, so... But I now realize, it would be intended. Other roles, with rookies being damages dealers.
I already do the support role of zoning and res defense so no thanks, I'd rather buy a smurf or deliberately haemorrhage skill points just so I could play
How much does it take to break it? We can assume time equates to experience gained to a degree, but is there any benefit at all in a longer Time To Kill?
If there could be a suitable level found that wasn't too disruptive, you could always include it in some sort of "Training" mode where you could play single player OR co-op against halfway decent bot AI (to include at least a few build order aware commanders), with levels of difficulty ranging from "Normal" (100% dmg) to "I've never played an FPS before" (20% dmg) and clearly communicate these numbers... constantly.. to remind them of their status and where they need to be.
Because let's face it, "Sink or swim" kind of sucks when it comes to being accessible - not everybody grew up with faced paced switch shooter / competitive fps games like some of us did.
Maintain a high skill ceiling and game, of course, but why not train those who would otherwise sink?
If you can, that is. I wanna test it at least..
For example, how often do you even see Umbra being available when aliens desperately need it? (eg Aliens chose Shade as first Hive, are stuck with one hive, and getting murdered by W2 marines) The Marine counterpart would be the Nano Shield.
Too many tools in NS2 are either "win more" steamrollers, or "lose more" traps that do not help when your team has fallen behind at all. For example, Mines are very powerful early game, but become almost completely obsolete once aliens get two Hives. Spending res on Mines after aliens have Bile Bomb and Fade would usually only accelerate your demise; Sentries have a similar effect. A lot of Marine weapons have an "expiry time", after which they usually become a drain a resources. Unless... your team is winning, then those Mines, Sentries (and Whip) can become massive blockades immensely frustrating for the other team to push through.
my point was actually something like that, give the rookies time to get comfortable without getting face rolled.
3 bites if fast, so is two meat shots.
if they fade into a good shotgunner, they'll die in 2.5 shots. make that a full clip, and maybe they'll actually run away instead.
also, to a certain extent better players can treat it almost as warmup/combat replacement.
something to get their fingers loose, make sure their biting and their aiming is on point. or to do something mindless without ruining everybody's day.
... med packs... are unfair incidentally.
@IronHorse was playing on that 6v12 server very very briefly.
bit some guy 6-8 times, full speed, not delay between bites, could not break through the med spam.
i'm usually ok with breaking through med spam if all i need is 2 bites nice and close, but when you literally can't outdps medpacks, it makes it difficult.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... Anyone ever heard of such a thing?
Oh wait yeah.