@DefectivePeeper Dude, I have asked you three times now to send your insults to me in a PM, and keep it out of this thread, since it's a wall of text that has literally nothing to do with the discussion at hand. This is the last time I'm going to say this. Get off my ass.
inb4 another wall of text attacking me that has nothing to do with the discussion.
Not necissarily, that would be like in other games where you need to think outside the box in how to overcome the obstacle. I can think of many games where a seemingly insurmountable problem such as an enemy immune to our weapons actually had alternative ways to kill the beast. Could be as simple as knocking the enemy out long enough to mess with it's DNA or to introduce a custom virus. That still doesn't necessitate more weapons, just more creative solutions and opportunities to use them.
More ways to eliminate, or rather, neutralize threats is the goal here.
Currently we have two primary tools that can do a specific set of things.
Once the DNA transfuser is in and we can inject some Friendship into stalkers and bone sharks to get them to bugger off, we'll be up to 3.
I still like the idea of a flash based grenade/torpedo to scare off bone sharks and creatures sensitive to light.
Using Peepers as part of a crafting recipe for a chum grenade/torpedo that would attract predators to an area and get them to fight each other over the meal wouldn't be too "violent" would it?
Had an idea for Mjolnir Mines that would basically be the Seamoth's Lightning Bomb in a round metal floating ball. Drop em and they float in place like a Beacon, and explode with energy if a big enough critter gets too close, potentially scaring them off or frying them. For base defense. Of course you count tune detection range and power output to your liking. Wouldn't work on Shockers, though. Hell the critters might even be attracted to em.
The Dimension Tide would be a Seabase or Cyclops mounted Wormhole Generator Cannon that would punch a hole in reality to suck a fish through, "harmlessly" teleporting them to another part of the ocean (I.e. out of the game). Of course, a strong swimmer like a Reaper Leviathan might be able to escape the suction of the warp, unless it was a direct hit.
"Fuck you you scumbag,learn to argue properly you piece of shit scumfuck.Your brain is the size of a pea you piece fucking faggot gay ass"
The example shown above is a personal attack.My posts are polite and aren't a personal attack.I have explained why my posts aren't personal attacks so go reread them and then reply to me.
Also the 3rd time I wasn't even attacking you,I was explaining what was a personal attack and why you were a hypocrite
Read my comments and don't just ignore them before you reply.
04LeonhardtI came here to laugh at youJoin Date: 2015-08-01Member: 206618Members
edited October 2015
And yet again you make a wall of text complaining about me.
It was insulting, now it's just harassment at this point. You have 6 posts. 4 of them are about me.
inb4 "No its not I'm just derailing the thread and complaining about you over and over with walls of text even though you asked me multiple times to stop!"
It sucks that the mod is against me me so I can do literally nothing to get you to leave me alone. Does this board have a "block user" function?
EDIT: No, it doesn't. @IronHorse can you at least tell him to stop derailing the thread with walls of text that have nothing to do with the discussion?
@04Leonhardt
The moment one of you two stops it is over. You can be that one, too.
Bingo.
Also leon I am not "against you".. I as well as others are attempting to inform you of something - your ability to disrupt a healthy discussion with inciting replies.
So saying that informing you of your actions (something you seemingly don't wish to recognize and rather play victim) is somehow derailing... is somewhat ironic...
Let's continue this discussion on topic - including no more inciting hyperbolic words being put in others' mouths.
We do not need a futuristic swiss army knife, we need separate items for separate tasks.
Could not agree more. I want more things that do less, not fewer things that do more.
Variety is good in sandbox style games. Gives the player more options and more ways to play.
My suggestion for a multi-torpedo launcher kinda does this, but is mostly a different way of using current tools (Launching a Chum Torpedo > Releasing a Peeper to try to distract a Bone Shark), or does similar things in a different way (Flash Torpedo greatly brightens an area for a few seconds and blinds Bone Sharks to make them flee > Dropping a flare to create a tiny light source or whacking the Bone Shark with your knife until it runs away)
Not necissarily, that would be like in other games where you need to think outside the box in how to overcome the obstacle. I can think of many games where a seemingly insurmountable problem such as an enemy immune to our weapons actually had alternative ways to kill the beast. Could be as simple as knocking the enemy out long enough to mess with it's DNA or to introduce a custom virus. That still doesn't necessitate more weapons, just more creative solutions and opportunities to use them.
More ways to eliminate, or rather, neutralize threats is the goal here.
Currently we have two primary tools that can do a specific set of things.
Once the DNA transfuser is in and we can inject some Friendship into stalkers and bone sharks to get them to bugger off, we'll be up to 3.
I still like the idea of a flash based grenade/torpedo to scare off bone sharks and creatures sensitive to light.
Using Peepers as part of a crafting recipe for a chum grenade/torpedo that would attract predators to an area and get them to fight each other over the meal wouldn't be too "violent" would it?
Had an idea for Mjolnir Mines that would basically be the Seamoth's Lightning Bomb in a round metal floating ball. Drop em and they float in place like a Beacon, and explode with energy if a big enough critter gets too close, potentially scaring them off or frying them. For base defense. Of course you count tune detection range and power output to your liking. Wouldn't work on Shockers, though. Hell the critters might even be attracted to em.
The Dimension Tide would be a Seabase or Cyclops mounted Wormhole Generator Cannon that would punch a hole in reality to suck a fish through, "harmlessly" teleporting them to another part of the ocean (I.e. out of the game). Of course, a strong swimmer like a Reaper Leviathan might be able to escape the suction of the warp, unless it was a direct hit.
tyler111762Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Join Date: 2015-05-17Member: 204558Members
ok....do i really need to treat this like a thread of babbling sjws screaming AD HOMINEM AD HOMINEM at the tops of their lungs?
leon you're being abrasive. people latch onto anything they can about your character they don't like and beat you with it instead of addressing your arguments. it lets them make hollow responses, don't give them the opportunity
terra, i don't understand how you don't see what i'm trying to say for fuck sake man get your head out of your ass. you are completely missing the point of my idea.
peeper, i'm about 50% convinced you're a shill. if not, then stop whining about the man's methods and address the substance of his arguments.
tyler111762Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Join Date: 2015-05-17Member: 204558Members
does anyone think having different tools that excel in areas fall in areas and vice versa? making you pick from a range of ablilitys other then just saying
ERMAHGERD LETZ GIV ALL THA UPGRADS TO THA STAASIAS RAFLE CUZ ITZ WHAT WE GOT AN ITZ THA B3ST
like say there are fish that mutate to be immune to stasis? then you use "taser bolts"
electric fish? "stasis bolts"
maybe you could have tranquilizer bolts.
warpers could be immune to any kind of vortex tech or warper tech.
rock paper scissors ballance.
think of battlefield.
the recon is great a distance. shit up close. great up close anti vehicle.
assault is great at mid range kinda good at long range, and good at close range. completely negligible anti vehicle
engineer is godly up close kinda good medium and crappy long range. but god teir at taking out vehicles
support is a medium range and long range beast at suppressive fire. and can do good damage to vehicles when up close.
notice how there is terra blades oh so dreaded overlap. but there are specific niches that simply cannot be filled by one class that is perfect for another.
maybe we could do BETTER than the current stasis rifle ballance. my god no one thought of that huh.
does anyone think having different tools that excel in areas fall in areas and vice versa? making you pick from a range of ablilitys other then just saying
ERMAHGERD LETZ GIV ALL THA UPGRADS TO THA STAASIAS RAFLE CUZ ITZ WHAT WE GOT AN ITZ THA B3ST
like say there are fish that mutate to be immune to stasis? then you use "taser bolts"
electric fish? "stasis bolts"
maybe you could have tranquilizer bolts.
warpers could be immune to any kind of vortex tech or warper tech.
rock paper scissors ballance.
think of battlefield.
the recon is great a distance. shit up close. great up close anti vehicle.
assault is great at mid range kinda good at long range, and good at close range. completely negligible anti vehicle
engineer is godly up close kinda good medium and crappy long range. but god teir at taking out vehicles
support is a medium range and long range beast at suppressive fire. and can do good damage to vehicles when up close.
notice how there is terra blades oh so dreaded overlap. but there are specific niches that simply cannot be filled by one class that is perfect for another.
maybe we could do BETTER than the current stasis rifle ballance. my god no one thought of that huh.
Different tools would be great if they don't have for example,25 different tools for different jobs.What I think would be great is if they added more upgrades for existing tools and such.
Of course new tools must stay but what I'm saying is that we do not need 1 tool for every job.Maybe a tracking device for you to see the pesky Reaper Leviathan or maybe a stun rod to stun hostile creatures.
Synergy between the tools would be great but they are not supposed to rely heavily on each other.Maybe stun a creature then use the DNA transfuser or the popular Stasis Rifle+Knife/Prop cannon.
Other than that,I am quite excited to see what new tools the Devs will add.
terra, i don't understand how you don't see what i'm trying to say for fuck sake man get your head out of your ass. you are completely missing the point of my idea.
Obvious baiting aside, I don't see how I miss your point at all. You are asking for a weapon that overlaps with another in it's intent and basic function, but the issue still is that the stasis rifle just outclasses the harpoon gun in the same way the seamoth outclasses a seaglide. Could it still have some use and a moment to shine here and there? Sure. But overall it could be safely skipped unless developers put either the materials to upgrade or moved the blueprint to a location that would necessitate using a harpoon gun in the meantime.
However there lies the problem. Not only does that mean that the use of the weapon can be safely skipped over which in turn begs the question of why have it at all; but it also necessitates the developers going against their design philosophy which they clearly state and are proud of. Furthermore you still have the fundamental problems with trying to make a harpoon gun compete with the stasis rifle, all of which I have stated before, which again means once you have the option to use one there wouldn't be much reason to use the harpoon gun. Flares and air tubes exist, but it is pretty rare if ever I use them and given the choice I don't see much reason to use a harpoon gun when all the proposed ideas still don't cover some of the fundamentally strongest points about the stasis rifle.
Just because a weapon has a lethal option does not mean it is inherently better for a game or in general either. As fan videos and projects have shown, some of the most iconic weapons in video games which in and of themselves are not lethal can be used for devastating effect. Weapons like the portal gun and gravity gun are in and of themselves non-lethal, it's their use (or misuse) which can make them so devastating. It's these kinds of weapons that stand out in gamer's minds because they allow players to work outside of the standard box and way of thinking so many games train us to think. It's forces you to think beyond point and shoot, which in turn makes you more involved with every encounter.
So yes I do understand the point of your idea, but just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I need to 'get my head out of my ass'. I understood your idea, I processed it, and I reject it because I feel it just overall won't fit the theme nor goals of the game. I imagine the devs are of similar thought since long has the harpoon gun been asked for and long have the devs said 'no'. There is just nothing that any proposed harpoon could do that can't just be used as an upgrade to an existing tool (dive reel grapple gun, that would be fun).
Weapons like the portal gun and gravity gun are in and of themselves non-lethal, it's their use (or misuse) which can make them so devastating. It's these kinds of weapons that stand out in gamer's minds because they allow players to work outside of the standard box and way of thinking so many games train us to think. It's forces you to think beyond point and shoot, which in turn makes you more involved with every encounter.
Example with the portal gun, (spoilers for portal 2) at the end of portal 2 you open a portal TO THE MOON, sucking everything that isn't nailed down to the moon.
Agent-48Ostrava City, Czech Republic, EUJoin Date: 2015-09-03Member: 207681Members
Geez, guys... SEVEN FRACKING PAGES of a good old-fashioned flame-war... keep it comming...
And to the people talking about some kind of future "evolved humanity" which got beyond using violence to settle down things:
FOR CRY OUT LOUD. It's already clear that Alterra Corp. exists in SN, so it is reasonable to assume that SN shares the same universe with NS. And NS is... about... well, KILLING ALIENS... plus the AURORA WAS SHOT DOWN and there might be even whole race of sentient hostile creatures on the planet...
...and you're wasting your time in here, arguing whether it's GOOD or BAD to kill a FRIGGIN' FISH!!!
Geez, guys... SEVEN FRACKING PAGES of a good old-fashioned flame-war... keep it comming...
And to the people talking about some kind of future "evolved humanity" which got beyond using violence to settle down things:
FOR CRY OUT LOUD. It's already clear that Alterra Corp. exists in SN, so it is reasonable to assume that SN shares the same universe with NS. And NS is... about... well, KILLING ALIENS... plus the AURORA WAS SHOT DOWN and there might be even whole race of sentient hostile creatures on the planet...
...and you're wasting your time in here, arguing whether it's GOOD or BAD to kill a FRIGGIN' FISH!!!
Get your dung together...
"The aurora was Shot Down"
We have no evidence that it was purposefully shot down by an alien, or an alien race, or any living thing for that matter
Agent-48Ostrava City, Czech Republic, EUJoin Date: 2015-09-03Member: 207681Members
edited October 2015
"The aurora was Shot Down"
We have no evidence that it was purposefully shot down by an alien, or an alien race, or any living thing for that matter
Yeah, a magical lightning from the unicorn land just suddenly appeared out of nothing and struck the poor thing Or maybe Alterra launched a starship without a sensor array and it get struck by a peaceful (hey, it's a rock so it can't be violent, it can't be good nor bad) meteoriete
We have no evidence that it was purposefully shot down by an alien, or an alien race, or any living thing for that matter
Yeah, a magical lightning from the unicorn land just suddenly appeared out of nothing and struck the poor thing Or maybe Alterra launched a starship without a sensor array and it get struck by a peaceful (hey, it's a rock so it can't be violent, it can't be good nor bad) meteoriete
Or there could be other reasons that are completely logical that don't require intentional hostile intent. I once proposed an idea of an ancient space defense cannon long since sunken into the sea created by an extinct race. That doesn't mean there is an alien race out to get you, no more then automated missile defense in the real world if activated hundreds of years from now necessarily constitute hostile intent.
While there is some element of something extra ordinary happening, which is hinted at with the few story elements in the game, that still doesn't mean hostile aliens any more then it means a misunderstanding. There is literally to little information to effectively act on, and logically that means there is even more reason to go with a non-lethal loadout over a lethal one. Realistically speaking of course.
Finally, most of what is going back and forth these last few pages has been about the introduction of a harpoon gun. To which nobody has really argued 'but what about the fish?' More about the practical application within the game, and whether or not it is necessary since the stasis gun is really a souped up harpoon gun.
Just because it crashed it doesn't mean it was shot out of the sky. Perhaps there was a major malfunction onboard that caused an explosion, which in turn caused the ship to crash.
Doesn't it say that the aurora "mysteriously" crashed in the opening sequence (I can't remember I've skipped it almost every time since the first time I've played). A lot of people still hope that somehow the warpers were responsible for it (myself included).
Just because it crashed it doesn't mean it was shot out of the sky. Perhaps there was a major malfunction onboard that caused an explosion, which in turn caused the ship to crash.
Doesn't it say that the aurora "mysteriously" crashed in the opening sequence (I can't remember I've skipped it almost every time since the first time I've played). A lot of people still hope that somehow the warpers were responsible for it (myself included).
If I remember right, it's said in the intro, that the ship was struck by an "unknown force", so...
Just because it crashed it doesn't mean it was shot out of the sky. Perhaps there was a major malfunction onboard that caused an explosion, which in turn caused the ship to crash.
Yes but the story elements in the game say that the damage is inconsistent, both for the crash and what is left of the Aurora afterwards, which means...well it could mean a lot of things. Also, the black box seems to be missing if I remember what it said correctly. Those don't just get up and walk away without help. That still doesn't mean hostile intent, but it does point to a deeper mystery to (hopefully) eventually solve.
(...) But at the end of the day, all you people are doing is speculating and talking about what you want to happen, I would suggest leaving the developers to it and seeing what they come up with on their own. (...)
(...) Then people run in throwing their ideas around like they are really easy to implement and have no idea what they are talking about.
so why make a web site with a "IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS" section?
(...) But at the end of the day, all you people are doing is speculating and talking about what you want to happen, I would suggest leaving the developers to it and seeing what they come up with on their own. (...)
(...) Then people run in throwing their ideas around like they are really easy to implement and have no idea what they are talking about.
so why make a web site with a "IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS" section?
Most of the time its just a containment board for the people that would post their ideas here anyways.
The problem being is that the devs have flat out said they don't want weapons, which means unless you can come up with some nifty utility uses chances are it is a moot argument right out of the gate.
Well that's just silly. In a game where so many things are out to kill you, weapons should be a must have, especially if we do end up finding sentient life deep underwater. I do like the idea of helplessness, especially against massive behemoths of the deep, but it ends up getting old real fast in games like Subnautica. I'd rather be able to do something about the monsters waiting outside my base for a snack rather than having to leave them there because I have almost no choice. While the repulsion cannon and stasis rifle work well deterring predators, they don't work well in combating them. If/When higher lifeforms are introduced into the game, no weapons means natural selection will get the better of you.
Not necissarily, that would be like in other games where you need to think outside the box in how to overcome the obstacle. I can think of many games where a seemingly insurmountable problem such as an enemy immune to our weapons actually had alternative ways to kill the beast. Could be as simple as knocking the enemy out long enough to mess with it's DNA or to introduce a custom virus. That still doesn't necessitate more weapons, just more creative solutions and opportunities to use them.
Remember, the devs have only said that they don't want to introduce weapons and promote violence as the easiest solution. Not that there won't be ways to use tools to eliminate a threat permanently. Whether that means making a threat docile or outright killing it is a matter of debate however.
Stasis + Stabbing a Reaper to death. Nice and brutal.
Weapons like the portal gun and gravity gun are in and of themselves non-lethal, it's their use (or misuse) which can make them so devastating. It's these kinds of weapons that stand out in gamer's minds because they allow players to work outside of the standard box and way of thinking so many games train us to think. It's forces you to think beyond point and shoot, which in turn makes you more involved with every encounter.
Example with the portal gun, (spoilers for portal 2) at the end of portal 2 you open a portal TO THE MOON, sucking everything that isn't nailed down to the moon.
I found the gravity gun and portal gun to be forgettable. A real memorable weapon is something like the BFG9000 from Doom.
In favor of the "not so nice" nature of the terraforming mission.
- If this was a a completely peaceful mission the independent corporation, e.g. Alterra science, would not be considering terraforming a planet that has the makings of one that looks as if it is in the middle of its own CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION (one of so called largest speciation events in known history). "Terraforming" a world that has living organisms is quite a violent and horrendously unethical act. If one is to observe the theory of evolution by natural selection and looks at basic vertebrate zoology and basic paleontology one can surmise that terraforming this planet would potentially be wiping out or forever impacting the evolution of the species there. But I am getting a little ahead of myself ......
........So lets look at terraforming, what does terraforming usually intail? Normally it involves synthesizing and constructing a breathable atmosphere congruent to species specific needs (CHECK), creating a sustainable source of food and nutrients (CHECK), a source of water (CHECK), and available landmass/habitat(s) to house (potentially) Billions .. (ok maybe trillions) of people (NOT CHECK). So.. Literally all the aurora would have had left to do was create landmass and/or construct floating or aquatic habitats.... thats it.
........ Now here is where it gets kinda seedy,
- The group, instead of looking for another planet decided that this one that is teeming with life is the best possible option, the one with highly intelligent life, because hey, they are carbon based ... lets eat em. ((btw .. they had to know what was there, your ship is the terraforming ship ... not a scout vessel, who allocates that kind of manpower and money to a shot in the dark? .. not a potential greedy space corporation/government that's for sure)) if there is some sort of desperation in their journey, then one could make the argument for necessary evil, we had to do it because X or blah blah blah.. But we don't know that. All we really know is that humanity is "colonizing the stars" . Which leads me to my next point, "colonizing the stars" implies that these terraforming missions had been done before (possibly). If there was any measure of success they most likely would have had to colonize a dead world before.. (as dead as a mars/europa etc etc).
So my real question is .. giving the assumption of prior knowledge of the planet, why in the hell did they pick this one?? Holy PRIME DIRECTIVE batman!!!
Now all of this is all well and good, but here is another wierd point where the logic starts to break down .. If the intentions of coming to this planet were " less than pure" or "unethical .... why all the sciency weapons then... think about it .. unknown worlds has said a couple of times .. non violent and have certainly set a "non-violent" tone with the gameplay. but why would they send us here and give us stupid stasis guns and wierd energy field weapons and stun torpedos and water tazer fields ... thats dumb right?? .....
Well ... no .. think about the progression of technology throughout history... (not going into a gun debate)
- The old trope goes that shedding blood is bad, taking up the sword is bad, that a single shot could change the course of humanity ... etc etc .. Shedding blood, violence and other malevolent acts are inherently part of human history. I think alot of people on here get mad at the idea of being limited to "non-lethal weapons" the "why no spear guns/spears??" etc etc arguments. But let me give you my little spin on it ... are all of the countermeasures "non-lethal" ?
This argument boils down to time and energy (everything is a budgeting act.. go accounting and ecology). I could chase a fish .. I could .. I could also shoot a stasis field, grab it alive and keep it in case I needed it alive with a potentially unlimited supply of energy ( batteries will be farmable eventually, and how come you cant stick your damn weapons and stuff up to a solar pannel ... seriously .. wth? rechargeable cells plox).. Oh yeah .. and capture the little fish.. oh why not get a male and female alive and put em in my aquarium ... ooh maybe they can breed and have babies .... and I can feast on their young .... all by swimming for maybe a day to find the fish and realistically two or three to build the aquarium ... for a lifetime supply of food.... all the while freezing and eating fish as I go.
The 2 scary things about humanity, the things that make us the dominant species and apex predator on earth is our intelligence and our appose-able thumbs (specifically humanities ability to use tools with fine motor skills). It never has mattered what we were holding .. we can find some way to kill with it or do something worse..
... so again it all boils down to trade-offs .. economics .. accounting ... If I have now been introduced into an environment I am now a part of the ecosystem .. when you eat, it is a predator-prey interaction when you look for resources or food... that is a species-environment interaction... and therefore every interaction requires the expenditure of energy.
Sure I will give the point that we are given a knife ... when you are leveled back to the stone-age in a matter of seconds, it is the best logical tool .. However.. you also have this magical life pod that only requires raw materials to synthesize bigger and better tools in a matter of seconds (realistically possibly days or weeks if you are looking for raw resources)..... so realistically ... why in the hell would I wast my time trying to stick fish with a pointy object when I could pull a trigger and remove my prey in a bloodless (non-risky) kill? .. doesn't make sense ... the great thign is .. this is a video game ... and you wouldn't have to worry about realistically trying to find copper deposits or titanium deposits in an aquatic environment.. ( thought that an alloy lol).
SO .. if you read this huge wall of text thank you, I appreciate it, even if you don't agree with me. So below is the cliffsnotes/ non-rambly version
The main point I was trying to make is that .. yeah the current tools you have .. i.e. the stasis rifle, gravsphere and seamoth weapons are big and bad enough. And yes ... the game is about survival first and foremost... in the first few hours ... then it quickly becomes about boredom once you have sustainable resources, then it becomes about having a goal ... preserving/living or whatever you think it might be... and the truth is ... we don't know.. none of us do XD the game is still in alpha and the lead writer and producers are still chugging away in game that is in alpha...
But on the philosophical argument of weapons vs. tools ... weapons are tools thats is all..
Seriously, the ONLY REASON they out the player on this expedition to this kind of planet teeming with life is because of the gameplay, not because they are evil humans lol
I'm not ignoring your point, I understand it, and I disagree with it
Comments
"Fuck you you scumbag,learn to argue properly you piece of shit scumfuck.Your brain is the size of a pea you piece fucking faggot gay ass"
The example shown above is a personal attack.My posts are polite and aren't a personal attack.I have explained why my posts aren't personal attacks so go reread them and then reply to me.
Also the 3rd time I wasn't even attacking you,I was explaining what was a personal attack and why you were a hypocrite
Read my comments and don't just ignore them before you reply.
Good day.
It was insulting, now it's just harassment at this point. You have 6 posts. 4 of them are about me.
inb4 "No its not I'm just derailing the thread and complaining about you over and over with walls of text even though you asked me multiple times to stop!"
It sucks that the mod is against me me so I can do literally nothing to get you to leave me alone. Does this board have a "block user" function?
EDIT: No, it doesn't.
@IronHorse can you at least tell him to stop derailing the thread with walls of text that have nothing to do with the discussion?
The moment one of you two stops it is over. You can be that one, too.
Also leon I am not "against you".. I as well as others are attempting to inform you of something - your ability to disrupt a healthy discussion with inciting replies.
So saying that informing you of your actions (something you seemingly don't wish to recognize and rather play victim) is somehow derailing... is somewhat ironic...
Let's continue this discussion on topic - including no more inciting hyperbolic words being put in others' mouths.
@IronHorse if you could clean up the off topic comments it'd help get us back on track.
Could not agree more. I want more things that do less, not fewer things that do more.
Variety is good in sandbox style games. Gives the player more options and more ways to play.
My suggestion for a multi-torpedo launcher kinda does this, but is mostly a different way of using current tools (Launching a Chum Torpedo > Releasing a Peeper to try to distract a Bone Shark), or does similar things in a different way (Flash Torpedo greatly brightens an area for a few seconds and blinds Bone Sharks to make them flee > Dropping a flare to create a tiny light source or whacking the Bone Shark with your knife until it runs away)
More ways to eliminate, or rather, neutralize threats is the goal here.
Currently we have two primary tools that can do a specific set of things.
Once the DNA transfuser is in and we can inject some Friendship into stalkers and bone sharks to get them to bugger off, we'll be up to 3.
I still like the idea of a flash based grenade/torpedo to scare off bone sharks and creatures sensitive to light.
Using Peepers as part of a crafting recipe for a chum grenade/torpedo that would attract predators to an area and get them to fight each other over the meal wouldn't be too "violent" would it?
Had an idea for Mjolnir Mines that would basically be the Seamoth's Lightning Bomb in a round metal floating ball. Drop em and they float in place like a Beacon, and explode with energy if a big enough critter gets too close, potentially scaring them off or frying them. For base defense. Of course you count tune detection range and power output to your liking. Wouldn't work on Shockers, though. Hell the critters might even be attracted to em.
The Dimension Tide would be a Seabase or Cyclops mounted Wormhole Generator Cannon that would punch a hole in reality to suck a fish through, "harmlessly" teleporting them to another part of the ocean (I.e. out of the game). Of course, a strong swimmer like a Reaper Leviathan might be able to escape the suction of the warp, unless it was a direct hit.
leon you're being abrasive. people latch onto anything they can about your character they don't like and beat you with it instead of addressing your arguments. it lets them make hollow responses, don't give them the opportunity
terra, i don't understand how you don't see what i'm trying to say for fuck sake man get your head out of your ass. you are completely missing the point of my idea.
peeper, i'm about 50% convinced you're a shill. if not, then stop whining about the man's methods and address the substance of his arguments.
iron, keep up the good work.
sigh........i wish we could all just get along...
ERMAHGERD LETZ GIV ALL THA UPGRADS TO THA STAASIAS RAFLE CUZ ITZ WHAT WE GOT AN ITZ THA B3ST
like say there are fish that mutate to be immune to stasis? then you use "taser bolts"
electric fish? "stasis bolts"
maybe you could have tranquilizer bolts.
warpers could be immune to any kind of vortex tech or warper tech.
rock paper scissors ballance.
think of battlefield.
the recon is great a distance. shit up close. great up close anti vehicle.
assault is great at mid range kinda good at long range, and good at close range. completely negligible anti vehicle
engineer is godly up close kinda good medium and crappy long range. but god teir at taking out vehicles
support is a medium range and long range beast at suppressive fire. and can do good damage to vehicles when up close.
notice how there is terra blades oh so dreaded overlap. but there are specific niches that simply cannot be filled by one class that is perfect for another.
maybe we could do BETTER than the current stasis rifle ballance. my god no one thought of that huh.
Different tools would be great if they don't have for example,25 different tools for different jobs.What I think would be great is if they added more upgrades for existing tools and such.
Of course new tools must stay but what I'm saying is that we do not need 1 tool for every job.Maybe a tracking device for you to see the pesky Reaper Leviathan or maybe a stun rod to stun hostile creatures.
Synergy between the tools would be great but they are not supposed to rely heavily on each other.Maybe stun a creature then use the DNA transfuser or the popular Stasis Rifle+Knife/Prop cannon.
Other than that,I am quite excited to see what new tools the Devs will add.
Obvious baiting aside, I don't see how I miss your point at all. You are asking for a weapon that overlaps with another in it's intent and basic function, but the issue still is that the stasis rifle just outclasses the harpoon gun in the same way the seamoth outclasses a seaglide. Could it still have some use and a moment to shine here and there? Sure. But overall it could be safely skipped unless developers put either the materials to upgrade or moved the blueprint to a location that would necessitate using a harpoon gun in the meantime.
However there lies the problem. Not only does that mean that the use of the weapon can be safely skipped over which in turn begs the question of why have it at all; but it also necessitates the developers going against their design philosophy which they clearly state and are proud of. Furthermore you still have the fundamental problems with trying to make a harpoon gun compete with the stasis rifle, all of which I have stated before, which again means once you have the option to use one there wouldn't be much reason to use the harpoon gun. Flares and air tubes exist, but it is pretty rare if ever I use them and given the choice I don't see much reason to use a harpoon gun when all the proposed ideas still don't cover some of the fundamentally strongest points about the stasis rifle.
Just because a weapon has a lethal option does not mean it is inherently better for a game or in general either. As fan videos and projects have shown, some of the most iconic weapons in video games which in and of themselves are not lethal can be used for devastating effect. Weapons like the portal gun and gravity gun are in and of themselves non-lethal, it's their use (or misuse) which can make them so devastating. It's these kinds of weapons that stand out in gamer's minds because they allow players to work outside of the standard box and way of thinking so many games train us to think. It's forces you to think beyond point and shoot, which in turn makes you more involved with every encounter.
So yes I do understand the point of your idea, but just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I need to 'get my head out of my ass'. I understood your idea, I processed it, and I reject it because I feel it just overall won't fit the theme nor goals of the game. I imagine the devs are of similar thought since long has the harpoon gun been asked for and long have the devs said 'no'. There is just nothing that any proposed harpoon could do that can't just be used as an upgrade to an existing tool (dive reel grapple gun, that would be fun).
Example with the portal gun, (spoilers for portal 2) at the end of portal 2 you open a portal TO THE MOON, sucking everything that isn't nailed down to the moon.
And to the people talking about some kind of future "evolved humanity" which got beyond using violence to settle down things:
FOR CRY OUT LOUD. It's already clear that Alterra Corp. exists in SN, so it is reasonable to assume that SN shares the same universe with NS. And NS is... about... well, KILLING ALIENS... plus the AURORA WAS SHOT DOWN and there might be even whole race of sentient hostile creatures on the planet...
...and you're wasting your time in here, arguing whether it's GOOD or BAD to kill a FRIGGIN' FISH!!!
Get your dung together...
"The aurora was Shot Down"
We have no evidence that it was purposefully shot down by an alien, or an alien race, or any living thing for that matter
Yeah, a magical lightning from the unicorn land just suddenly appeared out of nothing and struck the poor thing
Or there could be other reasons that are completely logical that don't require intentional hostile intent. I once proposed an idea of an ancient space defense cannon long since sunken into the sea created by an extinct race. That doesn't mean there is an alien race out to get you, no more then automated missile defense in the real world if activated hundreds of years from now necessarily constitute hostile intent.
While there is some element of something extra ordinary happening, which is hinted at with the few story elements in the game, that still doesn't mean hostile aliens any more then it means a misunderstanding. There is literally to little information to effectively act on, and logically that means there is even more reason to go with a non-lethal loadout over a lethal one. Realistically speaking of course.
Finally, most of what is going back and forth these last few pages has been about the introduction of a harpoon gun. To which nobody has really argued 'but what about the fish?' More about the practical application within the game, and whether or not it is necessary since the stasis gun is really a souped up harpoon gun.
Doesn't it say that the aurora "mysteriously" crashed in the opening sequence (I can't remember I've skipped it almost every time since the first time I've played). A lot of people still hope that somehow the warpers were responsible for it (myself included).
If I remember right, it's said in the intro, that the ship was struck by an "unknown force", so...
Yes but the story elements in the game say that the damage is inconsistent, both for the crash and what is left of the Aurora afterwards, which means...well it could mean a lot of things. Also, the black box seems to be missing if I remember what it said correctly. Those don't just get up and walk away without help. That still doesn't mean hostile intent, but it does point to a deeper mystery to (hopefully) eventually solve.
Dark matter can't melt plasteel beams!
Wake up sheeple!
*invades the desert moon of aqua terra*
Most of the time its just a containment board for the people that would post their ideas here anyways.
Stasis + Stabbing a Reaper to death. Nice and brutal.
I found the gravity gun and portal gun to be forgettable. A real memorable weapon is something like the BFG9000 from Doom.
In favor of the "not so nice" nature of the terraforming mission.
- If this was a a completely peaceful mission the independent corporation, e.g. Alterra science, would not be considering terraforming a planet that has the makings of one that looks as if it is in the middle of its own CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION (one of so called largest speciation events in known history). "Terraforming" a world that has living organisms is quite a violent and horrendously unethical act. If one is to observe the theory of evolution by natural selection and looks at basic vertebrate zoology and basic paleontology one can surmise that terraforming this planet would potentially be wiping out or forever impacting the evolution of the species there. But I am getting a little ahead of myself ......
........So lets look at terraforming, what does terraforming usually intail? Normally it involves synthesizing and constructing a breathable atmosphere congruent to species specific needs (CHECK), creating a sustainable source of food and nutrients (CHECK), a source of water (CHECK), and available landmass/habitat(s) to house (potentially) Billions .. (ok maybe trillions) of people (NOT CHECK). So.. Literally all the aurora would have had left to do was create landmass and/or construct floating or aquatic habitats.... thats it.
........ Now here is where it gets kinda seedy,
- The group, instead of looking for another planet decided that this one that is teeming with life is the best possible option, the one with highly intelligent life, because hey, they are carbon based ... lets eat em. ((btw .. they had to know what was there, your ship is the terraforming ship ... not a scout vessel, who allocates that kind of manpower and money to a shot in the dark? .. not a potential greedy space corporation/government that's for sure)) if there is some sort of desperation in their journey, then one could make the argument for necessary evil, we had to do it because X or blah blah blah.. But we don't know that. All we really know is that humanity is "colonizing the stars" . Which leads me to my next point, "colonizing the stars" implies that these terraforming missions had been done before (possibly). If there was any measure of success they most likely would have had to colonize a dead world before.. (as dead as a mars/europa etc etc).
So my real question is .. giving the assumption of prior knowledge of the planet, why in the hell did they pick this one?? Holy PRIME DIRECTIVE batman!!!
Now all of this is all well and good, but here is another wierd point where the logic starts to break down .. If the intentions of coming to this planet were " less than pure" or "unethical .... why all the sciency weapons then... think about it .. unknown worlds has said a couple of times .. non violent and have certainly set a "non-violent" tone with the gameplay. but why would they send us here and give us stupid stasis guns and wierd energy field weapons and stun torpedos and water tazer fields ... thats dumb right?? .....
Well ... no .. think about the progression of technology throughout history... (not going into a gun debate)
- The old trope goes that shedding blood is bad, taking up the sword is bad, that a single shot could change the course of humanity ... etc etc .. Shedding blood, violence and other malevolent acts are inherently part of human history. I think alot of people on here get mad at the idea of being limited to "non-lethal weapons" the "why no spear guns/spears??" etc etc arguments. But let me give you my little spin on it ... are all of the countermeasures "non-lethal" ?
This argument boils down to time and energy (everything is a budgeting act.. go accounting and ecology). I could chase a fish .. I could .. I could also shoot a stasis field, grab it alive and keep it in case I needed it alive with a potentially unlimited supply of energy ( batteries will be farmable eventually, and how come you cant stick your damn weapons and stuff up to a solar pannel ... seriously .. wth? rechargeable cells plox).. Oh yeah .. and capture the little fish.. oh why not get a male and female alive and put em in my aquarium ... ooh maybe they can breed and have babies .... and I can feast on their young .... all by swimming for maybe a day to find the fish and realistically two or three to build the aquarium ... for a lifetime supply of food.... all the while freezing and eating fish as I go.
The 2 scary things about humanity, the things that make us the dominant species and apex predator on earth is our intelligence and our appose-able thumbs (specifically humanities ability to use tools with fine motor skills). It never has mattered what we were holding .. we can find some way to kill with it or do something worse..
... so again it all boils down to trade-offs .. economics .. accounting ... If I have now been introduced into an environment I am now a part of the ecosystem .. when you eat, it is a predator-prey interaction when you look for resources or food... that is a species-environment interaction... and therefore every interaction requires the expenditure of energy.
Sure I will give the point that we are given a knife ... when you are leveled back to the stone-age in a matter of seconds, it is the best logical tool .. However.. you also have this magical life pod that only requires raw materials to synthesize bigger and better tools in a matter of seconds (realistically possibly days or weeks if you are looking for raw resources)..... so realistically ... why in the hell would I wast my time trying to stick fish with a pointy object when I could pull a trigger and remove my prey in a bloodless (non-risky) kill? .. doesn't make sense ... the great thign is .. this is a video game ... and you wouldn't have to worry about realistically trying to find copper deposits or titanium deposits in an aquatic environment.. ( thought that an alloy lol).
SO .. if you read this huge wall of text thank you, I appreciate it, even if you don't agree with me. So below is the cliffsnotes/ non-rambly version
The main point I was trying to make is that .. yeah the current tools you have .. i.e. the stasis rifle, gravsphere and seamoth weapons are big and bad enough. And yes ... the game is about survival first and foremost... in the first few hours ... then it quickly becomes about boredom once you have sustainable resources, then it becomes about having a goal ... preserving/living or whatever you think it might be... and the truth is ... we don't know.. none of us do XD the game is still in alpha and the lead writer and producers are still chugging away in game that is in alpha...
But on the philosophical argument of weapons vs. tools ... weapons are tools thats is all..
2 words: video game.
Seriously, the ONLY REASON they out the player on this expedition to this kind of planet teeming with life is because of the gameplay, not because they are evil humans lol
I'm not ignoring your point, I understand it, and I disagree with it