Well it definitly kills my long-time motivation to play the game. As soon as I've seen all the new stuff after a patch I stop playing, because I'm bored of the easyness of survival.
That doesn't bother me personally but I can appreciate that point of view.
There is some scope within the game to make survival more difficult. Deny yourself some of the gadgets and upgrades. There's a few I never use for that reason, so I have to swim in amongst predators for a bit more challenge.
After playing for a while , it seems the game suffers from minecrafty difficulty erosion. As you craft more items and structures , difficulty drops off - with cyclops and the stasis rifle making the biggest difference.
A solution would be to wake up intelligent predators hidden in the depths (unlikely done by accident , as opposed to materialistic greed) and have them investigate the surface where you normally dwell. A hard mode of sorts , adding challenge even to the shallows.
So are you saying the game is too easy or does it lack content? I think it IS a bit easy but i have a good handfull of savegames with 20 hours and more. It's a game that won't throw you to death with objectives, you're on your own there... at least at the moment.
Also, as stakhanov above me said, there are some key items that really minimize the overall challenge singlehandedly. I, too, say the tasis rifle is one of them ... also the heat blade.
to kill reapers around and finally explore and loot the 'whole world'.
Wait, wasn't the original mission plan to colonize the planet and live amongst the wildlife in harmony? Isn't wiping out certain species, and then turning the planet into a barren, empty ocean kind of against the plot?
Easy guys ... it's very simple:
Yes, it is in development and yes, we give feedback.
Yes, there is a hardcore mode and yes, it isn't hardcore.
Right?
Yes and no. While it is pretty laid back for a survival game this wasn't truely meant to be a survival game first. That doesn't mean it can't become one, but exploration is supposed to be the first priority. At least it was, that might be shifting since more and more survival mechanics are getting added (not that I am complaining).
But while yes the game is easy now doesn't mean it will always be in the future. Part of the issue is that there just are not enough critters and/or mechanics set up yet that would force truly dangerous situations. Such as currently divers do not have a crush depth. I imagine once that gets added things are going to get very interesting since it means you can't just pop out, solder your sub, and get back in before something eats you. Where getting your sub destroyed at depth means you die too.
Also keep in mind that there are supposed to be things that make the reapers look cuddly supposedly in the future. As well things that might be passive/safe now may not be in future patches (the blue 'angel-fish' for example in mushroom forests).
So in short the comment about patience being required is very much true. The game has grown a fair bit in the last year, and will probably continue next year. But while you can, and are encouraged, to make your feedback known...you have done so now. Unless you have some specific ideas for devs on to ways to tweak the game, or specifics on what to add, there isn't much further this discussion can be taken.
I'm kinda hoping that the devs will add wreckage with hostile aliens and new weapons. You know give it a edge that most other games of this type just don't have and adds the apprehension of other intelligent life that wants what you have to survive.
But while you can, and are encouraged, to make your feedback known...you have done so now. Unless you have some specific ideas for devs on to ways to tweak the game, or specifics on what to add, there isn't much further this discussion can be taken.
If I get you right you mean: Though there is a survival mode where you have to eat, drink, defend and heal to generally stay alive - it is NO survival game. Contradictory, don't you think? But I'm pretty amazed how friendly you pack the message: "You've had your little speech and now shut up."
Striking
Anyway, I'd already expressed some ideas to tweak the game but admittedly it's worthless. I suggest to remove survival- and hardcore mode. That would save us a lot of hot air.
Seems like some folks won't be entirely happy unless Subnautica winds up like Five Nights At Freddy's: The Swimsuit Edition.
There is a definite survival element to this game. This makes some sort of sense, considering the game's central premise.
I've got a feeling that it's not going to be nearly as enjoyable if a creature straight out of H.R Giger's worst nightmares is unleashed, and presumably allowed to have unhindered access to player bases and the Cyclops. Pro tip: Propulsion cannons are not friendly to base structures.
Yes.
People have actually suggested this.
I'm quite happy to let Subnautica unfold naturally as The Devs intended. Also perfectly happy to provide feedback when the game breaks, too. There will surely come a time for mods, for multi-player and world-shattering weapons, but getting the basic framework down and rock-solid should be the prime concern here.
Besides, "Difficulty" is such a relative term. Some people can't even string a coherent sentence together. It's difficult for them.
In a similar vein; we can't all be Uber-Gamers who think Subnautica is way too 'easy'. The inherent challenge in any game depends entirely on an individual's overall skills as a player; most particularly their visual acuity, reflex time, fine motor control and basic level of comprehension.
The game isn't even finished yet. Throw the Devs a bone.
Seems like some folks won't be entirely happy unless Subnautica winds up like Five Nights At Freddy's: The Swimsuit Edition.
Well, actually this thread was supposed to be a talk about the hardcore mode ... and I'm surprised how many vanilla players are taking position for a game mode they shouldn't give a try. And in fact it seems to be misunderstood that 'hardcore' mustn't simultaneously mean more dangerous. It simply means harder! Harder to find (catch) food, water, fragments and resources. Harder to build bases, to craft equipment, harder to keep up power supply. And so on ...
Ok, it depends on who you ask. If you ask the kids i.e. they would say: Make a lot of dangerous monsters and give us a minigun. Again, that's NOT my intention. But a little more thinking, searching, planning and preparing to make ends meet would simply fit a hardcore mode. And before you contradict again: You must not choose this game mode!
Seems like some folks won't be entirely happy unless Subnautica winds up like Five Nights At Freddy's: The Swimsuit Edition.
There is a definite survival element to this game. This makes some sort of sense, considering the game's central premise.
I've got a feeling that it's not going to be nearly as enjoyable if a creature straight out of H.R Giger's worst nightmares is unleashed, and presumably allowed to have unhindered access to player bases and the Cyclops.
Thinking about it... it'd be terrifying and Fun to have an intelligent predator entering your base or cyclops. The fear when you hear *beep* "unauthorized lifeform detected" ...
If a harder difficulty mode is implemented , might as well make such a creature behavior exclusive to that , just like minecraft zombies can break doors on hard mode. I'd be a waste to have amphibious creatures not capable of using your moon pool to enter your base at least.
Thinking about it... it'd be terrifying and Fun to have an intelligent predator entering your base or cyclops. The fear when you hear *beep* "unauthorized lifeform detected" ...
If a harder difficulty mode is implemented , might as well make such a creature behavior exclusive to that , just like minecraft zombies can break doors on hard mode. I'd be a waste to have amphibious creatures not capable of using your moon pool to enter your base at least.
LOL ... what an idea. Imagine coming home and finding some witty creatures plundering the aquarium. Hehehe ...
That reminds me of the fish swarm playing with and carrying away my beacon.
Honestly? I don't think the game itself is too easy, I think the difficulty is poorly distributed. Being the careful player that I am, I just never, ever approach the areas with reapers without cyclops (and if it wasn't safe in them I wouldn't approach them at all, especially since there's no real gain from it). The big predators in general have a laughable aggro range and are way too common.
What I'd do is I'd remove 90% of predators from the game, and then I'd make them really, really scary when they notice you and you're not prepared. I'd also make each of them unique and I'd make it possible to prepare for every single one of them, but being prepared for all of them at the same time would be simply impossible.
Here are some ideas.
Biter Fish- they don't care about you unless you literally touch one of them or you get wounded by something else. If they smell your blood they get into rage mode and get to you fast from all over the neighbourhood, making it 20ish of them. That would make them a serious threat and not just the simple pain in the back they're now. Weakness: Much like now, no matter how many of them, they can't get through seamoth. after some time bashing against it they'll swim away to their original spots.
Sandshark- why the hell does it keep moving? Make it dig into sand and wait, with only barely visible eyes sticking out. If a player swims nearby (~5 meters), they jump out and bite in, not actually doing any serious damage by itself, but it holds you in place- and it's in the same biome as biters (Symbiosis!), who will quickly shred you into pieces unless you can get away by hitting it in the eye with the knife or hitting it with a heat knife anywhere (and you still have biters to deal with). Also, because of it's big mouth it tends to be able to grab onto Seamoth upgrades and tear them off unless you jump out and get it to let go very quickly (propulsion cannon?). Weakness: It's scared of burns, so it will instantly flee if hit by the heat knife. it will also run away if you stab it in the eye, which is pretty hard since it doesn't exactly stay immobile once it grabs onto you.
Bleeders- As much as I hated them before, they were actually pretty well designed. Increase aggro range and let them terrorize kelp forest seafloors. Weakness: They die to one knife hit which is fair in my opinion.
Reaper Leviathan- Massive aggro range (exactly and precisely the whole biome? it would make it really nice and teritorial). Make it go to the surface. Make it smart enough to grab onto the cyclops and pull it into the depths, only letting go if you have enough hull upgrades to make it unable to damage you even at the seafloor (and not attacking you again for a good while). However, make it's sight really bad. Given their size, Reapers need to eat big stuff, so make it ignore the player if he's not inside a vehicle or really close. You want to get that scrap metal and chests in the crash site? Sure, but you have to carry it yourself. Weakness: The fact that it's not really interested in human-sized meals unless it really really wants to get eaten.
Shocker- Just make it rare, more aggressive, give it a good aggro range and make it paralyse the player for like 5 seconds with the electricity. Possibly also able to damage seamoth systems with discharges. Weakness: Afraid of big things. It hides and will not move out of it's hiding spot if a Cyclops is nearby, unless the player approaches very close.
Crabsnake- I actually kinda like this one, but it should attack you before you can actually peek inside the shroom. Maybe let it attack the seamoth by constricting it? Weakness: it will not enjoy getting blasted by electricity.
Stalker- Another teritorial predator. There shouldn't be more than one, maybe two (mating season!) in a kelp forest, but it should aggro in the entire biome and it should keep all the salvage in one place in the middle of it. Weakness: It's scared of crashes, so (warning: new mechanic) recording a crash warning (the "irrrrr!" sound that it makes when it leaves the nest) makes it swim away in terror. Recording that is really dangerous, though.
Boneshark- How about this: make them hunt in pairs. They're mostly immune to damage (exoskeleton), and they care for each other- attacking one of them will make the other follow you until you scare it off. Possibly also make them nomadic- can be found in any biome, if you're unlucky, and they're the apex predator in most of biomes (like the Killer whale) so all the 'local' ones are scared of them and hide (only leviathan-sized things scare them away). Weakness: electricity, repulsion cannon or a loud reaper leviathan recording (that you need to get really close to get) will ward it off.
Crashes- I know they're meant to prevent you from just using seamoth to explore caves, but I'm pretty sure it makes no sense for them to damage the seamoth- explosion=pressure (pretty sure they don't leave much in terms of shrapnels) and seamoth is essentially designed to withstand pressure. I'd delegate that job to some kind of new life form, possibly an acidic slug of some sort that latches onto the moth and consistently damages it by trying to digest it (and maybe attacks in large groups). Going back to Crash, it's explosion should have about three times as much range, dealing 100% at point blank and 1% at max range. Weakness: can't damage seamoth, can be repulsed away, if it gets stabbed with a knife right before it blows up it doesn't explode.
Of course, all of the above is just ideas (and quite possibly not the best ones), but you get the idea. And remember- my version assumes that they are much more scarce, not pretty much everywhere as it is now.
But while you can, and are encouraged, to make your feedback known...you have done so now. Unless you have some specific ideas for devs on to ways to tweak the game, or specifics on what to add, there isn't much further this discussion can be taken.
If I get you right you mean: Though there is a survival mode where you have to eat, drink, defend and heal to generally stay alive - it is NO survival game. Contradictory, don't you think? But I'm pretty amazed how friendly you pack the message: "You've had your little speech and now shut up."
Striking
Anyway, I'd already expressed some ideas to tweak the game but admittedly it's worthless. I suggest to remove survival- and hardcore mode. That would save us a lot of hot air.
Just because something has a survival mode does not mean it needs to be on the same level of 'hardcore' as another survival game. In fact what 'hardcore' means to you might mean something different to me. Hence why I said you need to be specific. I wasn't trying to passive-aggressive you as you apparently took it, I was saying what I will now overtly say: Be specific in what you are asking for.
Do you want better AI? How so, or what behaviors do you specifically wish to see and by which creatures? Do you just want certain creatures to be immune to certain things (such as reapers immune to a seamoth area defense)? Just saying you want the mode to be harder is about as vague and useful to a game developer as saying you want a book to be more engaging to an author. It's feedback, sure, but it isn't really all that useful. But if you just want to say 'make the game harder'...well that is nice and all but it just isn't useful feedback.
I read back and did not really see any specific ideas, though the idea of critters coming in through the moonpool might be interesting...but what then? Yeah it's interesting but why have a creature do that? What would it be trying to do? That is what I was trying to say before.
Yep, I see your point now, TerraBlade. Sometimes it takes one to know one. Thank you!
Hardcore mode - what a designation. To me - again - it simply means harder to come around. Though it can be, it doesn't mean automatically more dangerous (which could make everything harder too).
But it's all about balancing!
The magic word and btw the main 'problem' of the actual hardcore mode. It is due to the fact that it has exactly the same balancing of the loot-, craft-, build- and power-system than any other game mode. It's simply too easy to find resources, fragments, catch fish, craft exotic equipment, build bases, subs, and run them.
Just a few examples:
Imagine just half of the resources to find but double to craft and build. Btw a logistic challenge.
Rare, randomly spread and sometimes hidden or guarded fragments.
The magic builder: It needs only one battery .. once .. and you can conjure anything you want. But all of a sudden it would require a real good plan to build a base if the builder would consume say 25% of its charge to build one piece. Yeah guys, lean back and start thinking and then prepare as best as you can, go out and search, outsmart, sneak, steal and fight for all these fancy resources. That's what I am up to!
The fabricator, one of the most sophisticated pieces of technology: Just two pieces of titanium to build? LOL (sry)
The solar charger - SeaMoth extension: Boy this thing is efficient. You never ever have to stop, dock for charging or change the powercell again.
Eating and drinking under water? If not you'd get serious trouble if you start some exploration hungry or thirsty.
Sorry, I'm getting tired of filling this list. And it would be a big step forward if the already mentioned was brought into the right relationship.
A different behavior of the fauna?
Well, that could be more dangerous, scary, paranoid, funny and harder too.
But thats not what I am up to. Although a gang of annoying creatures entering your base and plundering your hard filled food locker could become a serious problem too
Hope you get me now and sorry for the chaotic list.
Edit: I forgot one - to me - important point for the list:
Bitten by a shark? No problem ... come on bugbear, bite two times more. I am fit and tough enough for a little dance. I can heal in about [TAB Klick Klick TAB] two seconds at a hundred meters depths. Hmmm, are you serious? This borders on cheating if you ask me. And if you'd ask me I would say: Out of the water, dress your wounds, have a good meal and then heal slowly.
Sandshark- why the hell does it keep moving? Make it dig into sand and wait, with only barely visible eyes sticking out. If a player swims nearby (~5 meters), they jump out and bite in, not actually doing any serious damage by itself, but it holds you in place- and it's in the same biome as biters (Symbiosis!), who will quickly shred you into pieces unless you can get away by hitting it in the eye with the knife or hitting it with a heat knife anywhere (and you still have biters to deal with). Also, because of it's big mouth it tends to be able to grab onto Seamoth upgrades and tear them off unless you jump out and get it to let go very quickly (propulsion cannon?). Weakness: It's scared of burns, so it will instantly flee if hit by the heat knife. it will also run away if you stab it in the eye, which is pretty hard since it doesn't exactly stay immobile once it grabs onto you.
This! The sandshark is definitely an ambush predator, much like the crabsnake. But because they move around a lot, I've only been caught off-guard once because I failed to notice a sandshark swimming right above me. I love your symbiosis idea, it gets me thinking about remora-like creatures that could follow reefbacks around (Perhaps feeding off parasites).
I made a sneakier sand shark thread for that , but the symbiosis with biterfishes is intriguing. Although there should be a reasonable chance to survive the encounter.
I think there should be a:
99% chance to survive if you're prepared for a specific fish/biome
85% chance to survive if you're unprepared, but very cautious
30% (hard mode) to 60% (freedom mode) chance to survive if you're unprepared for a specific encounter, but you are well armed and ready to "face the unknown", but not very careful
10% chance to survive if you're completely reckless
The way Subnautica is right now, there are only three realistic ways you can die:
1. running out of oxygen because you got lost in a cave or you overestimated your speed
2. not knowing what you're dealing with ("what's that loud noise? Let's find out!")
3. being very reckless- as long as you're keeping yourself above 80% health at all times, the only thing that can realistically kill you is a Leviathan, and it can only be found in a few spots that are well known
i do agree that theres a few things completely unconceivable right now in the game lol
1- Thermoblade completely cook a fish in one strike? haha
2- yeah, eating/drinking in the ocean isnt realistic at all
3- some devices really needs more components to create like the Fabricator and the Seamoth (should require at least computer chips and wiring/advanced wiring kits.)
4- the builder reallly needs to loose some charge after each use
5- i agree that medkits are too OP atm, maybe make it heal 20% life instead of 50 (life could even be regened over a period of time like 30 secs or a minute)
6- on hardcore, the starter Lifepod should run out of power unless the player builds solar panels to re-power it. Fail to do this and its game over
Personally, i find that the lifepod having an endless supply of power makes it way too easy specially giving the abundance of ressources that can be found around in to create a builder then solar panels. Of course when you begin playing the game you cant know all that, so it could be a hardcore thing only.
7- Radiation suit shields you completely of radiation indefinitely. wow, how convenient! at a good distance of the aurora yeah maybe, but when u get close or inside the aurora itself, life should still deplete slowly anyway and also deplete faster and faster the longer youre in the ship/close to it making the need to bring alot of medkits along a necessity. Theres not alot of game objectives yet in this game, the trip inside the aurora needs to be more epic and less just a walk in the park imo ....
Thats what comes to mind to me for now. points 1 to 4 should be for all difficulties and 5-6-7 maybe hardcore only
Bitten by a shark? No problem ... come on bugbear, bite two times more. I am fit and tough enough for a little dance. I can heal in about [TAB Klick Klick TAB] two seconds at a hundred meters depths. Hmmm, are you serious? This borders on cheating if you ask me. And if you'd ask me I would say: Out of the water, dress your wounds, have a good meal and then heal slowly.
Devs, you've got my respect, my love and my money: We've got heaps of discussions and opinions about real dangers and so now ... did you ever mention that just this 'deep-sea-cheat-like-second-healing' could be the reason why no one really respects your predators?
How about giving it a try to fix this before thinking of different behaviors?
The games is about exploration, and module based progression (fragments etc).
Their should be better gameplay with animals I agree, whether helping them, protecting them, or fighting them (which I'm against), their should be more than just base building and endless exploration.
THIS THREAD IS ABOUT GAME PURPOSE, I have a thread on that
did you ever mention that just this 'deep-sea-cheat-like-second-healing' could be the reason why no one really respects your predators?
No, it's not. It's the fact that you can just swim away from every predator even if they somehow notice you.
Reaper leviathan is an exception, but it's dumb because it's either going to kill you or you're invulnerable with no real in-between state that would have a point. (vortex torpedoes stop it... for about 10 seconds, which is completely pointless because that's not enough to gather resources and if you just want to get past it you can just swim just below the surface and it won't aggro).
I do believe that this thread is about game ''difficulty'' , the word difficulty visibly having different meanings from person to person tho
i think its a general concensus that we all love this game, but we also have different points of views as to how the Hardcore difficutly should be improved and thats precisely why this thread is fun to monitor i have the rights to my opinions as do everyone here and everyone has the right to dissagree with me as i can with others! i just love debates of ideas
No, it's not. It's the fact that you can just swim away from every predator even if they somehow notice you.
You are right, you can dodge atm. But don't tell me you've never been bitten. Believe me, it would be worlds apart if you - all of a sudden - move slower and can not heal unless you're out of the water. And all I say is: Let's fix this first(!) before scripting more aggressively behaviors.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
tbh while I see your medpack comments reasoning, its the future. Its the same universe as NS2. (due to the alterra name)
So nanobot instant medpacks is quite fitting.
tbh while I see your medpack comments reasoning, its the future. Its the same universe as NS2. (due to the alterra name)
So nanobot instant medpacks is quite fitting.
I'm not sure if I get you right, DC_Darkling. What you mean? Nanobot instant medpacks made out of creepvine and bleach?
Comments
That doesn't bother me personally but I can appreciate that point of view.
There is some scope within the game to make survival more difficult. Deny yourself some of the gadgets and upgrades. There's a few I never use for that reason, so I have to swim in amongst predators for a bit more challenge.
A solution would be to wake up intelligent predators hidden in the depths (unlikely done by accident , as opposed to materialistic greed) and have them investigate the surface where you normally dwell. A hard mode of sorts , adding challenge even to the shallows.
Also, as stakhanov above me said, there are some key items that really minimize the overall challenge singlehandedly. I, too, say the tasis rifle is one of them ... also the heat blade.
Wait, wasn't the original mission plan to colonize the planet and live amongst the wildlife in harmony? Isn't wiping out certain species, and then turning the planet into a barren, empty ocean kind of against the plot?
Stalker and gasopod were easy enough to swim around ... wouldn't try that with sandsharks and biters, too unpredictable.
All i'm saying (topic hinthint) just like that a new endgame objective pops out of nowhere... be patient folks, shit's going to be just fine.
Yes and no. While it is pretty laid back for a survival game this wasn't truely meant to be a survival game first. That doesn't mean it can't become one, but exploration is supposed to be the first priority. At least it was, that might be shifting since more and more survival mechanics are getting added (not that I am complaining).
But while yes the game is easy now doesn't mean it will always be in the future. Part of the issue is that there just are not enough critters and/or mechanics set up yet that would force truly dangerous situations. Such as currently divers do not have a crush depth. I imagine once that gets added things are going to get very interesting since it means you can't just pop out, solder your sub, and get back in before something eats you. Where getting your sub destroyed at depth means you die too.
Also keep in mind that there are supposed to be things that make the reapers look cuddly supposedly in the future. As well things that might be passive/safe now may not be in future patches (the blue 'angel-fish' for example in mushroom forests).
So in short the comment about patience being required is very much true. The game has grown a fair bit in the last year, and will probably continue next year. But while you can, and are encouraged, to make your feedback known...you have done so now. Unless you have some specific ideas for devs on to ways to tweak the game, or specifics on what to add, there isn't much further this discussion can be taken.
If I get you right you mean: Though there is a survival mode where you have to eat, drink, defend and heal to generally stay alive - it is NO survival game. Contradictory, don't you think? But I'm pretty amazed how friendly you pack the message: "You've had your little speech and now shut up."
Striking
Anyway, I'd already expressed some ideas to tweak the game but admittedly it's worthless. I suggest to remove survival- and hardcore mode. That would save us a lot of hot air.
There is a definite survival element to this game. This makes some sort of sense, considering the game's central premise.
I've got a feeling that it's not going to be nearly as enjoyable if a creature straight out of H.R Giger's worst nightmares is unleashed, and presumably allowed to have unhindered access to player bases and the Cyclops. Pro tip: Propulsion cannons are not friendly to base structures.
Yes.
People have actually suggested this.
I'm quite happy to let Subnautica unfold naturally as The Devs intended. Also perfectly happy to provide feedback when the game breaks, too. There will surely come a time for mods, for multi-player and world-shattering weapons, but getting the basic framework down and rock-solid should be the prime concern here.
Besides, "Difficulty" is such a relative term. Some people can't even string a coherent sentence together. It's difficult for them.
In a similar vein; we can't all be Uber-Gamers who think Subnautica is way too 'easy'. The inherent challenge in any game depends entirely on an individual's overall skills as a player; most particularly their visual acuity, reflex time, fine motor control and basic level of comprehension.
The game isn't even finished yet. Throw the Devs a bone.
Well, actually this thread was supposed to be a talk about the hardcore mode ... and I'm surprised how many vanilla players are taking position for a game mode they shouldn't give a try. And in fact it seems to be misunderstood that 'hardcore' mustn't simultaneously mean more dangerous. It simply means harder! Harder to find (catch) food, water, fragments and resources. Harder to build bases, to craft equipment, harder to keep up power supply. And so on ...
Ok, it depends on who you ask. If you ask the kids i.e. they would say: Make a lot of dangerous monsters and give us a minigun. Again, that's NOT my intention. But a little more thinking, searching, planning and preparing to make ends meet would simply fit a hardcore mode. And before you contradict again: You must not choose this game mode!
Thinking about it... it'd be terrifying and Fun to have an intelligent predator entering your base or cyclops. The fear when you hear *beep* "unauthorized lifeform detected" ...
If a harder difficulty mode is implemented , might as well make such a creature behavior exclusive to that , just like minecraft zombies can break doors on hard mode. I'd be a waste to have amphibious creatures not capable of using your moon pool to enter your base at least.
LOL ... what an idea. Imagine coming home and finding some witty creatures plundering the aquarium. Hehehe ...
That reminds me of the fish swarm playing with and carrying away my beacon.
What I'd do is I'd remove 90% of predators from the game, and then I'd make them really, really scary when they notice you and you're not prepared. I'd also make each of them unique and I'd make it possible to prepare for every single one of them, but being prepared for all of them at the same time would be simply impossible.
Here are some ideas.
Biter Fish- they don't care about you unless you literally touch one of them or you get wounded by something else. If they smell your blood they get into rage mode and get to you fast from all over the neighbourhood, making it 20ish of them. That would make them a serious threat and not just the simple pain in the back they're now.
Weakness: Much like now, no matter how many of them, they can't get through seamoth. after some time bashing against it they'll swim away to their original spots.
Sandshark- why the hell does it keep moving? Make it dig into sand and wait, with only barely visible eyes sticking out. If a player swims nearby (~5 meters), they jump out and bite in, not actually doing any serious damage by itself, but it holds you in place- and it's in the same biome as biters (Symbiosis!), who will quickly shred you into pieces unless you can get away by hitting it in the eye with the knife or hitting it with a heat knife anywhere (and you still have biters to deal with). Also, because of it's big mouth it tends to be able to grab onto Seamoth upgrades and tear them off unless you jump out and get it to let go very quickly (propulsion cannon?).
Weakness: It's scared of burns, so it will instantly flee if hit by the heat knife. it will also run away if you stab it in the eye, which is pretty hard since it doesn't exactly stay immobile once it grabs onto you.
Bleeders- As much as I hated them before, they were actually pretty well designed. Increase aggro range and let them terrorize kelp forest seafloors.
Weakness: They die to one knife hit which is fair in my opinion.
Reaper Leviathan- Massive aggro range (exactly and precisely the whole biome? it would make it really nice and teritorial). Make it go to the surface. Make it smart enough to grab onto the cyclops and pull it into the depths, only letting go if you have enough hull upgrades to make it unable to damage you even at the seafloor (and not attacking you again for a good while). However, make it's sight really bad. Given their size, Reapers need to eat big stuff, so make it ignore the player if he's not inside a vehicle or really close. You want to get that scrap metal and chests in the crash site? Sure, but you have to carry it yourself.
Weakness: The fact that it's not really interested in human-sized meals unless it really really wants to get eaten.
Shocker- Just make it rare, more aggressive, give it a good aggro range and make it paralyse the player for like 5 seconds with the electricity. Possibly also able to damage seamoth systems with discharges.
Weakness: Afraid of big things. It hides and will not move out of it's hiding spot if a Cyclops is nearby, unless the player approaches very close.
Crabsnake- I actually kinda like this one, but it should attack you before you can actually peek inside the shroom. Maybe let it attack the seamoth by constricting it?
Weakness: it will not enjoy getting blasted by electricity.
Stalker- Another teritorial predator. There shouldn't be more than one, maybe two (mating season!) in a kelp forest, but it should aggro in the entire biome and it should keep all the salvage in one place in the middle of it.
Weakness: It's scared of crashes, so (warning: new mechanic) recording a crash warning (the "irrrrr!" sound that it makes when it leaves the nest) makes it swim away in terror. Recording that is really dangerous, though.
Boneshark- How about this: make them hunt in pairs. They're mostly immune to damage (exoskeleton), and they care for each other- attacking one of them will make the other follow you until you scare it off. Possibly also make them nomadic- can be found in any biome, if you're unlucky, and they're the apex predator in most of biomes (like the Killer whale) so all the 'local' ones are scared of them and hide (only leviathan-sized things scare them away).
Weakness: electricity, repulsion cannon or a loud reaper leviathan recording (that you need to get really close to get) will ward it off.
Crashes- I know they're meant to prevent you from just using seamoth to explore caves, but I'm pretty sure it makes no sense for them to damage the seamoth- explosion=pressure (pretty sure they don't leave much in terms of shrapnels) and seamoth is essentially designed to withstand pressure. I'd delegate that job to some kind of new life form, possibly an acidic slug of some sort that latches onto the moth and consistently damages it by trying to digest it (and maybe attacks in large groups). Going back to Crash, it's explosion should have about three times as much range, dealing 100% at point blank and 1% at max range.
Weakness: can't damage seamoth, can be repulsed away, if it gets stabbed with a knife right before it blows up it doesn't explode.
Of course, all of the above is just ideas (and quite possibly not the best ones), but you get the idea. And remember- my version assumes that they are much more scarce, not pretty much everywhere as it is now.
Just because something has a survival mode does not mean it needs to be on the same level of 'hardcore' as another survival game. In fact what 'hardcore' means to you might mean something different to me. Hence why I said you need to be specific. I wasn't trying to passive-aggressive you as you apparently took it, I was saying what I will now overtly say: Be specific in what you are asking for.
Do you want better AI? How so, or what behaviors do you specifically wish to see and by which creatures? Do you just want certain creatures to be immune to certain things (such as reapers immune to a seamoth area defense)? Just saying you want the mode to be harder is about as vague and useful to a game developer as saying you want a book to be more engaging to an author. It's feedback, sure, but it isn't really all that useful. But if you just want to say 'make the game harder'...well that is nice and all but it just isn't useful feedback.
I read back and did not really see any specific ideas, though the idea of critters coming in through the moonpool might be interesting...but what then? Yeah it's interesting but why have a creature do that? What would it be trying to do? That is what I was trying to say before.
Hardcore mode - what a designation. To me - again - it simply means harder to come around. Though it can be, it doesn't mean automatically more dangerous (which could make everything harder too).
But it's all about balancing!
The magic word and btw the main 'problem' of the actual hardcore mode. It is due to the fact that it has exactly the same balancing of the loot-, craft-, build- and power-system than any other game mode. It's simply too easy to find resources, fragments, catch fish, craft exotic equipment, build bases, subs, and run them.
Just a few examples:
Imagine just half of the resources to find but double to craft and build. Btw a logistic challenge.
Rare, randomly spread and sometimes hidden or guarded fragments.
The magic builder: It needs only one battery .. once .. and you can conjure anything you want. But all of a sudden it would require a real good plan to build a base if the builder would consume say 25% of its charge to build one piece. Yeah guys, lean back and start thinking and then prepare as best as you can, go out and search, outsmart, sneak, steal and fight for all these fancy resources. That's what I am up to!
The fabricator, one of the most sophisticated pieces of technology: Just two pieces of titanium to build? LOL (sry)
The solar charger - SeaMoth extension: Boy this thing is efficient. You never ever have to stop, dock for charging or change the powercell again.
Eating and drinking under water? If not you'd get serious trouble if you start some exploration hungry or thirsty.
Sorry, I'm getting tired of filling this list. And it would be a big step forward if the already mentioned was brought into the right relationship.
A different behavior of the fauna?
Well, that could be more dangerous, scary, paranoid, funny and harder too.
But thats not what I am up to. Although a gang of annoying creatures entering your base and plundering your hard filled food locker could become a serious problem too
Hope you get me now and sorry for the chaotic list.
Edit: I forgot one - to me - important point for the list:
Bitten by a shark? No problem ... come on bugbear, bite two times more. I am fit and tough enough for a little dance. I can heal in about [TAB Klick Klick TAB] two seconds at a hundred meters depths. Hmmm, are you serious? This borders on cheating if you ask me. And if you'd ask me I would say: Out of the water, dress your wounds, have a good meal and then heal slowly.
This! The sandshark is definitely an ambush predator, much like the crabsnake. But because they move around a lot, I've only been caught off-guard once because I failed to notice a sandshark swimming right above me. I love your symbiosis idea, it gets me thinking about remora-like creatures that could follow reefbacks around (Perhaps feeding off parasites).
99% chance to survive if you're prepared for a specific fish/biome
85% chance to survive if you're unprepared, but very cautious
30% (hard mode) to 60% (freedom mode) chance to survive if you're unprepared for a specific encounter, but you are well armed and ready to "face the unknown", but not very careful
10% chance to survive if you're completely reckless
The way Subnautica is right now, there are only three realistic ways you can die:
1. running out of oxygen because you got lost in a cave or you overestimated your speed
2. not knowing what you're dealing with ("what's that loud noise? Let's find out!")
3. being very reckless- as long as you're keeping yourself above 80% health at all times, the only thing that can realistically kill you is a Leviathan, and it can only be found in a few spots that are well known
1- Thermoblade completely cook a fish in one strike? haha
2- yeah, eating/drinking in the ocean isnt realistic at all
3- some devices really needs more components to create like the Fabricator and the Seamoth (should require at least computer chips and wiring/advanced wiring kits.)
4- the builder reallly needs to loose some charge after each use
5- i agree that medkits are too OP atm, maybe make it heal 20% life instead of 50 (life could even be regened over a period of time like 30 secs or a minute)
6- on hardcore, the starter Lifepod should run out of power unless the player builds solar panels to re-power it. Fail to do this and its game over
Personally, i find that the lifepod having an endless supply of power makes it way too easy specially giving the abundance of ressources that can be found around in to create a builder then solar panels. Of course when you begin playing the game you cant know all that, so it could be a hardcore thing only.
7- Radiation suit shields you completely of radiation indefinitely. wow, how convenient! at a good distance of the aurora yeah maybe, but when u get close or inside the aurora itself, life should still deplete slowly anyway and also deplete faster and faster the longer youre in the ship/close to it making the need to bring alot of medkits along a necessity. Theres not alot of game objectives yet in this game, the trip inside the aurora needs to be more epic and less just a walk in the park imo ....
Thats what comes to mind to me for now. points 1 to 4 should be for all difficulties and 5-6-7 maybe hardcore only
Yeah, thanks a lot for the clear list! That'll do for a while, except the loot system and the food-fish behavior in hardcore mode.
And even at the cost of quoting myself ... Devs, you've got my respect, my love and my money: We've got heaps of discussions and opinions about real dangers and so now ... did you ever mention that just this 'deep-sea-cheat-like-second-healing' could be the reason why no one really respects your predators?
How about giving it a try to fix this before thinking of different behaviors?
Their should be better gameplay with animals I agree, whether helping them, protecting them, or fighting them (which I'm against), their should be more than just base building and endless exploration.
THIS THREAD IS ABOUT GAME PURPOSE, I have a thread on that
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/139785/an-underlying-story-to-keep-the-game-moving#latest
Hmm? Since when? Says who?
Welcome to the exchange of ideas for tweaking the hardcore mode.
No, it's not. It's the fact that you can just swim away from every predator even if they somehow notice you.
Reaper leviathan is an exception, but it's dumb because it's either going to kill you or you're invulnerable with no real in-between state that would have a point. (vortex torpedoes stop it... for about 10 seconds, which is completely pointless because that's not enough to gather resources and if you just want to get past it you can just swim just below the surface and it won't aggro).
I do believe that this thread is about game ''difficulty'' , the word difficulty visibly having different meanings from person to person tho
i think its a general concensus that we all love this game, but we also have different points of views as to how the Hardcore difficutly should be improved and thats precisely why this thread is fun to monitor
You are right, you can dodge atm. But don't tell me you've never been bitten. Believe me, it would be worlds apart if you - all of a sudden - move slower and can not heal unless you're out of the water. And all I say is: Let's fix this first(!) before scripting more aggressively behaviors.
So nanobot instant medpacks is quite fitting.
I'm not sure if I get you right, DC_Darkling. What you mean? Nanobot instant medpacks made out of creepvine and bleach?