How to make NS2 Public Fun again?
schkorpio
I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
Well I have a few suggestions to start with 
(btw none of this has to exist in e-sports versions of the game, I'm talking public matches strictly).
Here are some general things:
Specific ideas:
More Interactivity
I find that the levels/maps are very static and predictable, which makes for very repetitive matches.
-Weldables
Cysts
Make it so that cysts can grow up walls, so that the maps can be a lot more interesting, and vertical. This would open up possiblities for things like we used to have in NS1 such as
Tech nodes
Skulks
Alien Commander
Hero Units
(btw none of this has to exist in e-sports versions of the game, I'm talking public matches strictly).Here are some general things:
- NS1 was a very dynamic game, about having fun while playing in a sandbox - even if you lost a match because of failed experimental strategy, typically it was still a fun match. NS2 losing is frustrating and painful.
- NS2 should embrace experimentation (it is was makes games like subnautica and minecraft so fun).
- Make NS2 less like a competitive basketball match and instead it should be more fun with friends like a few rounds of say Super Smash Brothers. It is too serious now to have actual fun on public server.
- It should be about building bases and holding territory like a tower defense game, and less like an 'actions per minute' and macro/micro driven game like Starcraft2.
- The action should be faster, but the base building and strategy should be more purposeful which opens up new tactics.
- The battles should happen inside rooms and hallways - for the most part I find that much of the fighting is done in doorways, with nobody commiting to go in and dance like in NS1.
Specific ideas:
More Interactivity
I find that the levels/maps are very static and predictable, which makes for very repetitive matches.
-Weldables
- I would love to be able to weld up vents like in NS1 or perhaps weld open a new path.
- Better still, lets make use of those doors and be able to weld them up something like : http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/122018
- The maps should start of almost completely dark until power is restored.
Cysts
Make it so that cysts can grow up walls, so that the maps can be a lot more interesting, and vertical. This would open up possiblities for things like we used to have in NS1 such as
- Moving elevators, up/down, diagonal, trams - huge cargo lifts (NS_bast goodness).
- Routes where there are only ladders instead of wide ramps everywhere. (give aliens some tentacles/barnacles to get up, or use gorge tunnels).
- One-way routes (e.g. marines cannot jump back up from that side, they have to commit and expose themselves to danger).
- Semi floor above floor / multi floor level design (it can be done it is facing toward the camera).
Tech nodes
- I don't like tech-nodes, I would love to be able to build my base anywhere again! And hives too within reason.
Skulks
- need to feel more like scouts, especially at the start of the game.
- early game, they should be deadly when they are unseen, the level design should allow for more sneakiness.
- early on, they should be dead meat when spotted in the open by marines
- later game they should perhaps spawn faster and be disposable
Alien Commander
- Needs to be entirely removed, or massively changed.
- It's very boring. It isn't fun like being a Zerg commander in SC2 or like Dungeon Keeper. You feel like you are doing a chore rather than cultivating a garden of deadly aliens.
- Gorge and Commander need more interactivity.
Hero Units
- At the beginning of the match there should a hero unit on each team - perhaps 1 jetpack & shotgun marine, and one fade (no upgrades) . Chosen at random.
Comments
Uh... yes that will go GREAT in pubs...
kappa
I don't understand everyone coming out of the woodwork lately with grand ideas of debasing ns2...
Over 2200 hours in ns2 (not much by some standards). Probably 75% of that post b249... I've enjoyed the game GREATLy as it's been. I cant get on board with this new "let's change everything" trend.
I'm sorry but I just don't see the need for any of the proposed changes here and with almost every bullet, I can counter w/ l2p or... have you even played ns2? Especially that first list... It sounds like you dont want ns2 at all.
pubfun ?
protip
NS 1.04
(For me,2012 was an amazing time for NS2,the old trailer still gives me chills!)
Yeah, that was loaded. Anycase, I did like the game better in memory before all this. I will agree with getting rid of alien commander, It changed that team into a socialist team verses the dictator team in a sense. Drifter support, bone wall and other stuff... meh good crap I guess.
While writing this, it dawned on me that my biggest memories from my NS days, weren't necessarily the games themselves, although there were some crackers I'll never forget, but more to do with the fun and games you got when the victory was coming etc.
NS2 doesn't have the same sense of fun as NS, it takes itself far too seriously, and so, the community have to as well.
I am not saying NS is better than NS2, I have to say, as a game, NS2 is far better, but for that fun factor, NS is the hands down winner. I really believe it is because of these kind of scenarios, those moments that create the great memories, and the combat rounds of course, which are really missing from the NS2 experience.
While I haven't played NS,I sadly have to agree that NS2 kinda focuses on more serious than fun. And I've said it 100 times so make that 101,2012 was the best time for me in NS2,so many awesome memories! But I think most of that excitement was due to the fact that I just got the game as a gift and was so hyped to play! Everything about the game was so cool! That alien could TELEPORT! And that one could run up WALLS! I was like a child in a candy store!.......except there were aliens involved.....but hey,excitement is excitement,and even though my computer struggled so hard to run NS2 back then,I would do almost anything to log into NS2 and feel that way again.
I believe if they make a re-boot of NS2 (not a new game,just a HUGE change of things,start fresh!),then NS2 could live to see the massive income of players it used to have! Even if it's not a re-boot,I still have hope that NS2 can do what it did for me back in 2012 again,but this time.....for everyone
It's bad enough that you litter the ns2 subreddit with your constant troll posts. Don't start doing it here too.
While I don't want NS2 to be a copy of NS1 with better graphics, I did find 1.04 probably to be the most fun version
Yes the slower pace was nice, but I doubt I have time for such a slow pace these days.
Id say therefor ns1 3.x
Most of OPs ideas are flat out idiotic with absolutely no thought put into them other than "I want to see them", no regard for current design, resources or balance. Oh and more people play Zerg or Dungeon Keeper than have ever played NS1 or NS2 so clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
It was also mostly the combination with the lack of vets and godlike players and a chaotic mess. Neither team could lock the other team into a corner so you had these wildly messy battles with no end in sight. Those things were epic and somehow fun... Weird
Compared to now where we instead have players who can destroy another team and lock the game even after a few minutes and the concede spam happens. NS2 right now is nothing more than harass the aliens -> marines win. Oh wait we didn't harass enuf, BOOOM Hive three -> aliens win. Tends to be a bit boring IMHO... NS2 has turned into a one trick or rather two trick pony.
TBH, this can be said for Alpha/Beta NS2 vs Final NS2, the unfinished versions were somehow more fun... Weird2
The thing is, NS2 classic mode will never appeal to the masses. So we need to analyze what made those "broken" "unfinished" modes fun and slap together a new game mode that builds on classic and appeals to the high player count and randomness of pubplay
Where does Nov/12 release fit in?
Of course I thought about balance, but there is no point talking about minuet balance details in a forum. Anything can be made balanced anyway. Besides you just said balance depends on who is playing on each team, so good luck balancing that.
Maybe those Zerg or Dungeon Keeper players would come to NS2 as well, wouldn't that be something ?
IMHO Beta, 2012 ya mean right?
I do, but I never considered the Release date to be unfinished. When reinforcement droped with one of the most horid patch updates I've experienced in my gamming history, That is when I learned that others considered NS2 unfinished and... Good day...
I have fun enough in pub games(apart from some pregame and endgame anoyances), thank you very much. If I get bored, I switch between 42, 24 and 14 player servers (which feels like completely different games). If I get even more bored I would play some mods, which are currently unfortunately underplayed (nothing better than round of Combat, Siege or Faded with group of drunk people with mics). Doesn't mean some small improvements couldn't be made, sure.
- I would welcome some experimentation with buildings. Currently either whole base goes down or survives. Apart of it's strategical value on the battlefield, destroying building usualy doesn't feel like hurting the enemy commander that much (it's up in few seconds again and especially at end comms swim in res and spam stuff like gorge eggs and jetpacks with nothing else to spend on)
- Don't think it should be faster. The 30 mins average seems like sweet spot for me. Some parts could use some speeding up (turtle endgame, Ready room/pregame nose-picking)
- Battles should happen wherever they happen. Blitzkrighs and trench wars are both valid choices. Don't care much for the dancing to be honest (especially bhopping marine - so comic - thinking it's skulk or something
- Welding entrances makes game more predictable, not less.
- I guess some more light-play could be cool, if done tastefully. But maybe prevents people from operating beyond enemy line, which makes game more predictable.
- Multilayered maps messes commander interface and the C map. Bent/uneven map surface (like Kodiak) or something mostly mappable to plane could be achieved (maybe some gravity play too), but not sure how the engine is prepared for that.
- Skulks can't be scouts at start. Marines would just rush base in group and win. Sneakiness and movement confusing to marine already works mostly (depends lot on player count on server), but you must know the line, when are you sneaky and when you are just wasting too much time (they respawn in few seconds anyway). They are already disposable in endgame (against JP, SG, GL, Exos, Mines, grenades, sentries and whatnot)
- I do not really command, but have often the feeling alien commander could be doing more for me. There is so many awsome offensive abilities. Or just can micro people and coordinate with gorges (sneaky advanced bases).
- hero units? naah. On the opposite I would like everything/more things to cost res, so when I kill someone I would know I am making a difference. And when I kill skilled player I help my team a lot and he won't be back in ten seconds(or will at cost, preventing him to buy better weapon or something) with his 5.0 KDR.
Well on the "V1.0" Release day I wouldn't consider NS2 unfinished, I mean it had all features for a final game. But It needed more polish IMHO and if it is supposed to apeal to the masses (casual players) even now it still needs more polish (less clutter/some minor graphical updates/less chaos/more information and mods)
Alien gorges turn into NS 1 gorges which in my oppinion were much more fun to play anyway.
PS: As aliens spread infestation. Marines could fight darkness and illuminate large sections of maps by having restored generators (AKA rine version of alien Hive).
Removing the commanders is......huh.....I dunno it just...feels like no one is watching you.....no guidance.....it's scary <:I (Plus I LOVE comming Kharaa)
I like the idea of marines fighting off darkness though! Maybe the whole bio-luminescence thing could help the aliens too!
It was horribly balanced, but I seriously did enjoy it. I would not want it back though.
Ohhh infestation spreads in the dark - that's an awesome idea!
http://www.unvanquished.net/
Siege maps and combat always did all of these things + allow for some experimentation.
Been trying to argue for more casual modes like these, or at least separate balance configs for pubs and comp. play, to be in NS2 out of the box, since like... pre-alpha. Guess what the reactions had been back then? Same as here and now: "Who cares about pubs, what about competitive balance?!".
In a perfect world UWE would invest one more time heavily into NS2 to introduce some major new content in the form of a new game mode or at least by integrating Combat into NS2, which never should have been a separate thing in the first place..
Maybe something that involves creeps, more coop focused, with a little bit of in-game progression or something like that. Personally i always loved the idea of an "wave based survival mode" where Marines have to build up and defend against huge hordes of AI Kharaa, Aliens style. Heck it'd even fit into what little bit of lore (anybody still remember that?!) there is in NS: Let the players fight for the survival of Sanjii, with the knowledge that it's bound to fall in the end! Perfect setting for such an game mode.
Yeah, that's easier said than done, but i still think it would fit very well into the NS universe and would give new players a less competitive/imposing setting to get familiar with the game.
The important part being to give people, who already own the game, a good reason to come back and actually check it out. New maps don't really do that for most people.
Oh I loved sending out Drifters to attack an extractor to distract the Hoomans!
A small part of me wants to host my own server, but I won't participate in UWE's skin market.
Respecting server admins is fun, but today's admins are running 20+ player servers and many have no team balance or balances on kdr only.
A server that only allows pings bellow 150 would be fun, because it's never fun when people take advantage of the netcode.
Poor people do not like parades of purchasable skins: it's not fun. We do not like fancy hats. The pre-order skin and the deluxe was tollerable. To think the skin market is a goal of developers is not fun. I know I'm making sense. Are skin fun? Spending money isn't fun for some.