Even what I think is a simpler game, planetside 2, has a mentoring program for the same reason people are talking about it here. It is not all that effective to my knowledge.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
TBH, Last stand will help people understand lifeforms/weapons etc better when its released... it is a REALLY useful gamemode.
The vanilla mechanics are something people learn over time anyway... I just think offering a simple mentor program, like I mentioned above, just a thread on the forums with people linking their own steam profiles for people to add if they want and then a link in game saying "want a mentor, go here" would be enough to help those that want helping in that way.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2016
The best part of it that it will show them how easy it is to flash an Onos vs focussed marine fire, without a lot of consequences for resflow
-> short game mode, in which they can at least go Onos 2 maybe 3 times. Depending on how they spend their wave res
The smaller consequences for them, and not being dependent on the team's performance in techtree advancements. Should potentially turn this in a very good and fun "hazard course" type of scenario. While being a good and fun horde mode
I think what you just described would be the best way to do a mentor program. Just a forum thread and a link. The development cost would be minimized that way.
Its just sad that people cant learn from mistakes made in the past.
"Hey, 4 mentor programs failed in the past, but im sure the 5th going to be an epic success"
NOT
It's not the Nth number of mentor program. It's how it's done. There is nothing incompatible with "people only want to play a game". The mentor program suffers from lack of means. Efficient means. Not that the mentors aren't efficient, they just don't have the tools to do it.
I'm voting since a long time +1 for an interface that can make mentors and rookie (willing to get a tips) connect (at least).
Follow for a moment :
What about a rookie nick color not based on the number of hour played but on the acceptation/validation of the mentors ?
If the rookie wants to get tips and become a decent NS player (and finally get rid of the naaab color = the incentive) he has to go through an organized and tailored series of tests. A basic level of knowledge which can be called "the package #1". It relies on some people willing to give 1 hour for making sure the package is understood.
These mentor are already there, the rookies... plenty of it. The system/interface isn't.
There can be people who just want to play the game and will never go for more than 30 hours. Nobody will care about them once they're gone. they won't stay anyways.
There can be people who will progress on their own, they will keep the rookie color as long as no mentor validated their "package". The awkward guy who is clearly allergic to reading.
There can be people who will fail the package on the first time. Well... You can pass it on the next session like a driving license.
There can be people who will successfully pass the first time.
All can live like that. Because the real first question everybody has in mind when starting a game isn't "can they aim ?" but "Do they understand the game ?" (as knowing the basic).
What does it require?
I'd say a "super commander" mode.
Controlled (on/off) by server admin to avoid the stuff that always happen with gamers.
This super commander mode grants the right to build and remove anything anywhere in the map and therefore set up a scene that will be the tests. Also grants the ability to teleport all players in one location or tech point.
Both first hive are invincible.
One button in the main menu to subscribe to a mentor program.
Mentors will 1 hours from time to time.
I don't think it will be a huge pain in the ass to program. Pregame is close to it. Maybe a special map than can include in one map all that is needed.
With this you can provide all the sequences needed. Assault on a hive, Grind on RTs, Save/protect a PG, kill the PN/Obs, etc... Free combat
Then we can create 2 more package
Package 2 (after 50hours) : Advanced field unit. Testing and tasting all weapon and lifeform. Plus a positioning training.
Package 3 (after 100hours) : Advanced commanding. Using every function like Echo, Ink etc. With economy module. Shift, crag and shade are different economic systems.
(After XX hours not to have people subscribing to all package at the same time (abuse))
What does it change ?
Now a rookie color (or rookie badge of shame ) means a rookie. People will not expect much from the rookies.
It relies on the tribal reflexes everybody has (in almost 100% of any culture/ethnic group, past and present in the world). It has good chances...
Mentor will be able to do the job (finally).
Natural tribes may form. Server admin could restrict access based on "packages" or hours and such.
It can be more fun than a scripted tutorial.
What it doesn't change ?
Stacking. But that's another perimeter.
As @moultano suggests we can remove a lot of information so Dumb & Dumber can play. One button in the main menu to subscribe to a mentor program. So people who actually reads... well it depends on the person but I'm sure some of them will understand what it is after 1 or 2 test/bad game (obliteration).
The most fragile thing would be the mentors.
Let's say people can become mentor automatically after 200hrs. More? I don't know. But it's a way of replenish the ranks.
Another issue is honesty. Well, we'll need a mentor council and get rid of the peasant. Something like that.
But i think after a certain amount of hours in NS, people understands that it's about being smarter first than having "recog-(willy size issue)-nition. I hope.
That is way more complex than just having a forum post for a link @unclecrunch. That is exactly what I do not want to see. It would take many magnitudes more time to develop, or organize, and to maintain than a forum post. It would have all that cost yet achieve nearly the same result.
Can we create a bet pool? I want to short this mentoring program. You guys must be European to think a mentoring program would work.
Take a step back and look at other games. Look at csgo, bf4, tf2, insurgency. They don't have a mentoring program. They have gamemodes and a good lobby interface.
Can we create a bet pool? I want to short this mentoring program. You guys must be European to think a mentoring program would work.
Take a step back and look at other games. Look at csgo, bf4, tf2, insurgency. They don't have a mentoring program. They have gamemodes and a good lobby interface.
And are rather simple games compared to NS2 and a larger playerbase so it's less likely godlike players encounter greenies...
I'm not entirely on board with "mentor programs" as in seeing them work all that well. But if someone wants to try their hand once more at something again, more power to them. However, I'd rather see proper servers with admins who make the games fun. That is already going on and they cause rather fun rounds even if it's not going "according to NS2's set out gameplay"
Can we create a bet pool? I want to short this mentoring program. You guys must be European to think a mentoring program would work.
Take a step back and look at other games. Look at csgo, bf4, tf2, insurgency. They don't have a mentoring program. They have gamemodes and a good lobby interface.
tf2 does have a coaching system, that no one has ever used except to get the professor's specs.
Turn your mentor program into a single-player-style map. Code both teams to play out a battle that the player can nudge into victory while describing and teaching that player how to play... You can make it entertaining even if you have the friendly npcs insult the player along the way so that he can get a feel for the game. Just joking on the last part...
And are rather simple games compared to NS2 and a larger playerbase so it's less likely godlike players encounter greenies...
Don't be afraid. These games are clearly dumb.
After all; the average IQ tends to go down lately (It's not an opinion but the observation of serious scientific studies).
LMAO! I guess they never learned how annoying it was to the playerbase having core mechanics of the game changed every week. Reading that bolded part seriously made me laugh out loud. Maybe they can change the hive structure locations 20 more times over the span over 1 week now with that speed increase.
And are rather simple games compared to NS2 and a larger playerbase so it's less likely godlike players encounter greenies...
Don't be afraid. These games are clearly dumb.
After all; the average IQ tends to go down lately (It's not an opinion but the observation of serious scientific studies).
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I'm from the EU, I don't want to be mentored or mentor anybody else, I want to play games. Of course I help and try and explain where I can while playing, but even after all these years, I am still crap at NS2.
Why does everyone think the issues can be solved in NS2 by teaching people how to play the game? This thread has the biggest Learn 2 Play NOOB attitude I have ever seen on the forums, all under the misguided impression we can teach people and make it all better.
Only a tiny minority of people can ever be genuinely good at games, In games like NS2, you have to accept the vast majority of players are going to be average to below average, however, there will be a small minority whose skill knows no bounds.
Why do you think everyone can be good at games? People play games to have fun, a tiny percentage are actually able to be any good.
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
The average or worse than average players don't go and pay for coaching, (they might have a coach for a team they play for, that's not the same thing) or anything like that, they just play the game at their level, and as time goes by, sometimes they get better, sometimes they get worse, but they play the game.
The ONLY solution is a large enough playerbase to support players of all different skill levels.
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
Hey dick, American Football uses a foot and ball too. We might not be using the first definition of ball in a dictionary, but it's damn well a ball.
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
Hey dick, American Football uses a foot and ball too. We might not be using the first definition of ball in a dictionary, but it's damn well a ball.
Lol, don't you have banter where you are from? Or is everyone too infuriatingly polite to be able to have a laugh and a joke.
I have no idea how you could take any offence to that joke, how do you even communicate in society? I hear worse stuff on the street everyday..
I played American Football for 6 years so I am more than conversant in the rules of the game, it's a game I love, and I still believe it should be called Hand-Egg, or better yet, since it's more fitting, American Rugby.
[Edit] I could make a comment about your use of language indicating your understanding of complexities like banter, but then, I would actually be being a Dick, and probably very much enjoying it
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
Hey dick, American Football uses a foot and ball too. We might not be using the first definition of ball in a dictionary, but it's damn well a ball.
Lol, don't you have banter where you are from? Or is everyone too infuriatingly polite to be able to have a laugh and a joke.
I have no idea how you could take any offence to that joke, how do you even communicate in society? I hear worse stuff on the street everyday..
I played American Football for 6 years so I am more than conversant in the rules of the game, it's a game I love, and I still believe it should be called Hand-Egg, or better yet, since it's more fitting, American Rugby.
[Edit] I could make a comment about your use of language indicating your understanding of complexities like banter, but then, I would actually be being a Dick, and probably very much enjoying it
I'm just unfortunately too sarcastic American rugby does make a lot of sense lol
But hey... that's science it doesn't sell books, right...
Both of these studies use other measures than IQ to measure intelligence. You said exactly that IQ has dropped, which during the time of standardised IQ tests has demonstrably increased.
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
Hey dick, American Football uses a foot and ball too. We might not be using the first definition of ball in a dictionary, but it's damn well a ball.
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
Hey dick, American Football uses a foot and ball too. We might not be using the first definition of ball in a dictionary, but it's damn well a ball.
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
But hey... that's science it doesn't sell books, right...
Both of these studies use other measures than IQ to measure intelligence. You said exactly that IQ has dropped, which during the time of standardised IQ tests has demonstrably increased.
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
Hey dick, American Football uses a foot and ball too. We might not be using the first definition of ball in a dictionary, but it's damn well a ball.
There is football in the US?
Since we've killed the on topic anyways, lets get some British stiff upper lip in there
ALso mandatory, offtopic nono waggy finger and shaking fist. But it's futile anyways
I just picked Ns2 up again after about a 6 month break. I'm not sure what exactly has happened but this game has become nearly unplayable. People say that there was a hitbox change to improve hitreg but my accuracy has dropped from average in the high 20's down to the mid teens. As far as performance goes this game has not been worse in years, I now encounter more stuttering and lag spikes then ever before. Game randomly crashes from time to time. While the load time is a little faster in game performance is WAYYYY down, it now takes nearly a minute for textures to load in game and for performance to smooth out. I am not alone, many I talk to are experiencing the same problems. Time to roll back a few patches.
I just picked Ns2 up again after about a 6 month break. I'm not sure what exactly has happened but this game has become nearly unplayable. People say that there was a hitbox change to improve hitreg but my accuracy has dropped from average in the high 20's down to the mid teens. As far as performance goes this game has not been worse in years, I now encounter more stuttering and lag spikes then ever before. Game randomly crashes from time to time. While the load time is a little faster in game performance is WAYYYY down, it now takes nearly a minute for textures to load in game and for performance to smooth out. I am not alone, many I talk to are experiencing the same problems. Time to roll back a few patches.
Definitely get in touch with someone on the Tech support side of this forum. Because from everyone I've heard talking I've gotten precisely the opposite. So an effort to fix whatever's bugging your systems needs you and whoever else you've heard talking about these issues to throw some info at the devs that they can use.
Comments
The vanilla mechanics are something people learn over time anyway... I just think offering a simple mentor program, like I mentioned above, just a thread on the forums with people linking their own steam profiles for people to add if they want and then a link in game saying "want a mentor, go here" would be enough to help those that want helping in that way.
-> short game mode, in which they can at least go Onos 2 maybe 3 times. Depending on how they spend their wave res
The smaller consequences for them, and not being dependent on the team's performance in techtree advancements. Should potentially turn this in a very good and fun "hazard course" type of scenario. While being a good and fun horde mode
It's not the Nth number of mentor program. It's how it's done. There is nothing incompatible with "people only want to play a game". The mentor program suffers from lack of means. Efficient means. Not that the mentors aren't efficient, they just don't have the tools to do it.
I'm voting since a long time +1 for an interface that can make mentors and rookie (willing to get a tips) connect (at least).
Follow for a moment :
What about a rookie nick color not based on the number of hour played but on the acceptation/validation of the mentors ?
If the rookie wants to get tips and become a decent NS player (and finally get rid of the naaab color = the incentive) he has to go through an organized and tailored series of tests. A basic level of knowledge which can be called "the package #1". It relies on some people willing to give 1 hour for making sure the package is understood.
These mentor are already there, the rookies... plenty of it. The system/interface isn't.
- There can be people who just want to play the game and will never go for more than 30 hours. Nobody will care about them once they're gone. they won't stay anyways.
- There can be people who will progress on their own, they will keep the rookie color as long as no mentor validated their "package". The awkward guy who is clearly allergic to reading.
- There can be people who will fail the package on the first time. Well... You can pass it on the next session like a driving license.
- There can be people who will successfully pass the first time.
All can live like that. Because the real first question everybody has in mind when starting a game isn't "can they aim ?" but "Do they understand the game ?" (as knowing the basic).What does it require?
I'd say a "super commander" mode.
- Controlled (on/off) by server admin to avoid the stuff that always happen with gamers.
- This super commander mode grants the right to build and remove anything anywhere in the map and therefore set up a scene that will be the tests. Also grants the ability to teleport all players in one location or tech point.
- Both first hive are invincible.
- One button in the main menu to subscribe to a mentor program.
- Mentors will 1 hours from time to time.
I don't think it will be a huge pain in the ass to program. Pregame is close to it. Maybe a special map than can include in one map all that is needed.With this you can provide all the sequences needed. Assault on a hive, Grind on RTs, Save/protect a PG, kill the PN/Obs, etc... Free combat
Then we can create 2 more package
- Package 2 (after 50hours) : Advanced field unit. Testing and tasting all weapon and lifeform. Plus a positioning training.
- Package 3 (after 100hours) : Advanced commanding. Using every function like Echo, Ink etc. With economy module. Shift, crag and shade are different economic systems.
(After XX hours not to have people subscribing to all package at the same time (abuse))What does it change ?
What it doesn't change ?
Stacking. But that's another perimeter.
As @moultano suggests we can remove a lot of information so Dumb & Dumber can play. One button in the main menu to subscribe to a mentor program. So people who actually reads... well it depends on the person but I'm sure some of them will understand what it is after 1 or 2 test/bad game (obliteration).
The most fragile thing would be the mentors.
- Let's say people can become mentor automatically after 200hrs. More? I don't know. But it's a way of replenish the ranks.
- Another issue is honesty. Well, we'll need a mentor council and get rid of the peasant. Something like that.
But i think after a certain amount of hours in NS, people understands that it's about being smarter first than having "recog-(willy size issue)-nition. I hope.Can we create a bet pool? I want to short this mentoring program. You guys must be European to think a mentoring program would work.
Take a step back and look at other games. Look at csgo, bf4, tf2, insurgency. They don't have a mentoring program. They have gamemodes and a good lobby interface.
I'm not entirely on board with "mentor programs" as in seeing them work all that well. But if someone wants to try their hand once more at something again, more power to them. However, I'd rather see proper servers with admins who make the games fun. That is already going on and they cause rather fun rounds even if it's not going "according to NS2's set out gameplay"
tf2 does have a coaching system, that no one has ever used except to get the professor's specs.
After all; the average IQ tends to go down lately (It's not an opinion but the observation of serious scientific studies).
LMAO! I guess they never learned how annoying it was to the playerbase having core mechanics of the game changed every week. Reading that bolded part seriously made me laugh out loud. Maybe they can change the hive structure locations 20 more times over the span over 1 week now with that speed increase.
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/03/smarter.aspx
Do you ever do any research before posting, or do you simply enjoy hacking away at your keyboard?
Why does everyone think the issues can be solved in NS2 by teaching people how to play the game? This thread has the biggest Learn 2 Play NOOB attitude I have ever seen on the forums, all under the misguided impression we can teach people and make it all better.
Only a tiny minority of people can ever be genuinely good at games, In games like NS2, you have to accept the vast majority of players are going to be average to below average, however, there will be a small minority whose skill knows no bounds.
Why do you think everyone can be good at games? People play games to have fun, a tiny percentage are actually able to be any good.
Take Football (you know, the one where you use your foot, and a ball), billions of people around the world play it, yet only a tiny percentage are actually any good at it. Most people are average or worse.
The average or worse than average players don't go and pay for coaching, (they might have a coach for a team they play for, that's not the same thing) or anything like that, they just play the game at their level, and as time goes by, sometimes they get better, sometimes they get worse, but they play the game.
The ONLY solution is a large enough playerbase to support players of all different skill levels.
Hey dick, American Football uses a foot and ball too. We might not be using the first definition of ball in a dictionary, but it's damn well a ball.
hmmm well... Actually yes.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289613000470
or this one that is free :
http://www.gwern.net/docs/algernon/2012-woodley.pdf
(in this one he already spot something about IQ)
But hey... that's science it doesn't sell books, right...
Lol, don't you have banter where you are from? Or is everyone too infuriatingly polite to be able to have a laugh and a joke.
I have no idea how you could take any offence to that joke, how do you even communicate in society? I hear worse stuff on the street everyday..
I played American Football for 6 years so I am more than conversant in the rules of the game, it's a game I love, and I still believe it should be called Hand-Egg, or better yet, since it's more fitting, American Rugby.
[Edit] I could make a comment about your use of language indicating your understanding of complexities like banter, but then, I would actually be being a Dick, and probably very much enjoying it
I'm just unfortunately too sarcastic
Both of these studies use other measures than IQ to measure intelligence. You said exactly that IQ has dropped, which during the time of standardised IQ tests has demonstrably increased.
There is football in the US?
Your display picture is perfect timing
Please...
Since we've killed the on topic anyways, lets get some British stiff upper lip in there
ALso mandatory, offtopic nono waggy finger and shaking fist. But it's futile anyways
Definitely get in touch with someone on the Tech support side of this forum. Because from everyone I've heard talking I've gotten precisely the opposite. So an effort to fix whatever's bugging your systems needs you and whoever else you've heard talking about these issues to throw some info at the devs that they can use.