I think UWE should promote an online tournament with prizes. Give ample time and get the word out. People will join team, they'll try to learn the game more because their is a reason too, and if you give enough time to practice lower skilled teams won't feel as it's a waste of time because they'll have tons of time to practice. Plus it brings back a few, introduces new ones, and gets more word out on NS2. ^.^
NS2WC 2016: Hosted out of Syknik's house in Canada.
I think UWE should promote an online tournament with prizes. Give ample time and get the word out. People will join team, they'll try to learn the game more because their is a reason too, and if you give enough time to practice lower skilled teams won't feel as it's a waste of time because they'll have tons of time to practice. Plus it brings back a few, introduces new ones, and gets more word out on NS2. ^.^
Strange tangent, but I'll play along.
I think the best approach, is a monthly cup. Relying on 1 big tournament, is a hit or a miss. It's not like uwe has the funds to compete with 100k tournaments anyways, so if the prize is watered down as result, I don't think that makes much of a difference in terms of marketing.
I know how you feel. I wanted to host a live Ns2 tourney in America following the one that was held in Germany. I own a large full service function hotel and was willing to do it at barely above cost just to get into the gaming market. Attempted to contact Hugh multiple times with no reply.
Monthly seems like maybe too often imo in terms of teams preparing and that someone will need to be organizing this. But maybe bi-monthly or even quarterly.
This probably doesn't sound like something a lot of casual players may be interested in, but maybe a friend gets involved... then another... then maybe their interest is finally piqued. If anybody read the interview w tane that @yojimbo conducted for ns2news, you will have noticed that the draw of competition and more specifically 'big' tournaments are a good motivation for some players. Even enough to maybe bring back some players who have moved on.
Tl:dr: I like the idea of more frequent tournaments, perhaps even more under the uwe umbrella to reach a broader audience than the NSL. Maybe even if they were more approachable/relaxed a la 7 v 7 or 8 v 8. Maybe it gets more ppl interested in competitive play or just ns2 in general.
As a public player, what keeps me from playing in gathers or tournaments is not the lack of a relaxed atmosphere or 6v6 gameplay. It is the certain toxic individuals that are in the competitive scene. I am not saying all competitive players are toxic, but that a select few are enough to keep me from participating.
It is not that I am offended by their words or actions but that I just can't enjoy playing games with such negative people. It would be like trying to play a friendly game with Rush Limbaugh and Al Sharpton (Two opposing American political talking heads that just create division). Either of those two would suck the fun out of anything they participated in.
At least for the veteran players, I think that might be a strong limiting factor.
I also want to include that I have participated in a past newcomer tournament and had a good experience.
u can't be prem without BM.
no but serious. I need to learn how to communicate more politely on these forums, especially when attempting to prove a point about toxic players. the toxicity is not that bad even for players who are shit like i am. most of the time those guys shit on you they are damn fucking right. and with the nsl havin their rules redefined and are more strict on enforcing them it's not even that bad anymore.
saying they are toxic is just excuses. there are even complete rookies having <100h participating lately. and a lot of the players who played in the newcomer tournament aswell. heard non of em complainin yet.
of course it'S a bit more harsh. but that's because it's a COMPETETIVE environment. ppl compete with each other which includes plain mindgames.
u must not confuse taking stuff serious with beeing toxic. most of the BM is ment in a funny not offending way. if u feel offended by every crap bein thrown at u i wonder how u survive out there in RL. Snip
oh and by the way: most of the toxicity during tournaments is not directed at players or teams but at the admins cause someone is always complaining.
I actually have seen some from nct being offended. There's a lot of elitism and exclusivity from certain individuals when it comes to new players. I can understand where nordic is coming from. Bming is one thing. But there are exceptions. Some trash talk inspires one to play better - to not make the same mistakes, to make them eat their words. Some bming, when it goes on for ten minutes straight within your own team especially, is demoralizing and quite uninspiring. Some ppl def do get too worked up about it, but seems like a pretty small number. However, it's as easy as leaving the gather lobby if you foresee it being an issue or just waiting for the next gather if there are ppl you'd like to avoid.
Personally, while I think you should respect opponents and teammates alike, I'm "old fashioned" in that I think respect is earned. Dishing and taking can be a part of that process.
However, it's as easy as leaving the gather lobby if you foresee it being an issue or just waiting for the next gather if there are ppl you'd like to avoid.
And there it is the simple solution on not beein a crybaby: Just leave! nobody forces you to stay. ppl shittalkin bout you 4 10 minutes straight. Just leave. make a complaint if u feel like it. But it normaly won't happen to newbies aslong as u are no douche. If u r comin in like: I'm the king of the world or be like fu i'm always right ppl will shit on you. if u r like: hey guys i'm new to comp they won't even yell at u as long as u r not wandering around like braindead ignoring everything they are telling you. remember it's competetive. ppl expect you to play like u care not like: I'm rambo just watch me.
there will always be players like this. especially when highskill players show up in lowskill gathers or when they are drunk.
More often they will be toxic to higher skill players not lower skill because they expect them to do better. If u behave like u r one they will expect u to play like one.
Someone rly beein harsh on u is rather seldom and as always you always have the possibility to leave.
It's prbbly cause i don't know these guys u mentioned there. from everything i found in like 5 minutes google search they won't get around with each other that well if they were arguing on political stuff. but i can't see how they'd affect a game compared to the comp players. but yeah i guess if u r not able to explain me in another way there's no point discussing this further as i prbly just won't understand u so an indepth discussion is impossible.
but let me tell u one thing real quick: u sid u played in a NCT and u enjoyed it. tournaments are normaly as this. the only thing ppl get toxic about is when the seedings are not what they want them to be or if there is some oranistational struggles. You could totaly avoid that and still play in the tournament. if there is toxicity inside ur team than that'S not the fault of gathers or the nsl but of ur teammates who r spreading it. so you either have those individuals in ur team then that's sad 4 u or u will most likely never have contact with them in a way outside of scheduling matches and playing them. so u can just completely block them if u like. so i can't see y they keep u from playin in tournaments.
I did not mean to say that there is no toxicity. It's been there and it always will be there.
But it's not as much as he's saying and especialy new people when not acting like they don't give a shit about anything will almost never experience it at all.
By just leaving i did not mean the whole competetive scene but this one gather where the shittalk happens. From my experience of >1 year playing a lot of gathers with a lot of different ppl by now it decreased a lot when NSL staff changed to go strict on the rules (b4 that getting charged 4 breakin rules was a gamble often decided by personal preferences) and never was happening that often at all. As I said earlier most of the toxicity is directed to the admins due to ppl never beeing happy about what they decided or complaining about admin abuse.
As I'm officialy warned to watch my language by @IronHorse (no complaints, I can see ur point there) and this is way offtopic i'm gonna check out here.
Do what you want and enjoy the game how you want it to enjoy (except cheating ofcourse). But don't blame UWE when they try to revive the game and prevent you from stomping rookies and you suddenly have to play with people of or above ur imaginary skill level (hive means nothing). The playerbase is to low to have servers for every skillrange populated 24/7.
Maybe Hive 2.0 will fix some stuff
It has been awhile since I have participated in a gather, and with their regained popularity I have been meaning to try them again. I know the same negative people still play there, and as such I might not stay long.
You are saying a lot of baseless assumptions about me that just really show you have no clue. You do not understand what I mean by toxicity and negative people. It is not so black and white as you seem to think it is. I have a few people agreeing with me, so it seems I am not the only one who has observed this.
Increase rookie level to 5 so new players can keep playing and practicing on rookie-only servers for longer before joining the non-rookie servers. You can still play on any server you want after reaching level 1 or finishing the tutorial.
WOW! Let's make the average player ownage even worse and reduce the servers they can join even more!!! YES!!!! So glad I uninstalled this game. You core 300 or so people, keep on playing with yourselves.
How many of the rookies are even getting past level 3? I don't know but I don't see much of them anymore. I personally don't think going to level 5 is going to have any real effect on you.
Let's make the average player ownage even worse and reduce the servers they can join even more!!!
That's precisely what that change doesn't do. I don't even know how you arrived at that.
Many rookies completed the tutorial/reached lvl3 and wanted to still play in rookie only servers in order to learn more.
Yet you think this increases stomping and the amount of servers you're able to join?? o.0
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
I want to quote Drew McCoy (Producer of Titanfall) here, cause i think his comment (was about 6v6 only) fits here pretty well:
"None of us are deluded enough to think we're making a game that fits every gamer. We're making a game we think is badass, and hope other people do it."
Let's make the average player ownage even worse and reduce the servers they can join even more!!!
That's precisely what that change doesn't do. I don't even know how you arrived at that.
Many rookies completed the tutorial/reached lvl3 and wanted to still play in rookie only servers in order to learn more.
Yet you think this increases stomping and the amount of servers you're able to join?? o.0
I can see his point of view. In a way it kind of does.
Since rookies can stay in rookie only servers longer that means they're not joining regular servers, which translates to even fewer regular servers being populated... I mean it's only 2 more levels so they'll move out of it in time, but for the time being it does limit the # of servers you can find without a god-like pro stomping on them...
All in all I think the NS2 community can be divided into two groups.. You have the average or casual players who just want to play and have fun, and who hate the god-like pro's joining games and ruining them... Then you have the competitive types who think the answer to every complaint about the game is "get better" and that anyone can reach the levels of a god-like 4000 hive score 4.3 kdr pro with a little bit of practice...
All in all I think the NS2 community can be divided into two groups..
Has this binary way of thinking ever lead to a solution to anything ever?
Putting people in these ridiculous boxes is nonsense and unproductive.
For example, where do we put the people, like myself, who just want to have fun, and who welcome the god-like pro's to join my game.
Get the hell out with this nonsense. The spectrum of players in skill and opinions and motives is far more complicated and far more interesting than this ill-conceived binary tribalism.
The solution to your problem is pretty simple. Skill capped servers.
Let's make the average player ownage even worse and reduce the servers they can join even more!!!
That's precisely what that change doesn't do. I don't even know how you arrived at that.
Many rookies completed the tutorial/reached lvl3 and wanted to still play in rookie only servers in order to learn more.
Yet you think this increases stomping and the amount of servers you're able to join?? o.0
Let me clarify. When I said "average player ownage" I meant, he receives the ownage, not gives it. This assumes I understand the change. Since I uninstalled I haven't tried it.
Does the change mean that any player above level 5 cannot join a rookie server? It used to be level 3 right? So obviously this means 1) He is further restricted on servers he can play on. and 2) Now he can't even play against level 5 rookies unless they join non-rookie servers.
I hardly ever see rookies join non-rookie servers. If they did, it would bring the average skill down below 1200 which it rarely is. Heck, I don't even see non rookies play any more. I stated this before. Where is the level 6 to 15 range of players? They are gone. Me included now thanks to this bootcamp concept. This fact alone proves bootcamp is failing to retain anybody new.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2016
There's a lot of us who experience that problem with NS2
@Nordic Can you please stop editing in replies to the post after yours, as it really screws up my reading comprehension of the thread, as I start looking backwards for what you are replying to..
As a public player, what keeps me from playing in gathers or tournaments is not the lack of a relaxed atmosphere or 6v6 gameplay. It is the certain toxic individuals that are in the competitive scene. I am not saying all competitive players are toxic, but that a select few are enough to keep me from participating.
It is not that I am offended by their words or actions but that I just can't enjoy playing games with such negative people. It would be like trying to play a friendly game with Rush Limbaugh and Al Sharpton (Two opposing American political talking heads that just create division). Either of those two would suck the fun out of anything they participated in.
At least for the veteran players, I think that might be a strong limiting factor.
I also want to include that I have participated in a past newcomer tournament and had a good experience.
This is why I never fully committed to playing competitively as there are quite a number of individuals that have questionable state of minds, supposedly fully grown men with child like mentalities.
Its a shame that so much talent is marred by a constant sea flow of LOLO, SPOOKY! GET REKT! KAPPA! wherever you go either gathers, public in-game and even ensl slack sometimes.
Don't get me wrong not all comp players are like this, there are truly humble players and good sports that can resist the urge to shit talk every 10 seconds.
Comments
NS2WC 2016: Hosted out of Syknik's house in Canada.
Confirmed.
I think the best approach, is a monthly cup. Relying on 1 big tournament, is a hit or a miss. It's not like uwe has the funds to compete with 100k tournaments anyways, so if the prize is watered down as result, I don't think that makes much of a difference in terms of marketing.
I don't like the idea of making an NA only tournament, but it would make it a lot cheaper to organize.
This probably doesn't sound like something a lot of casual players may be interested in, but maybe a friend gets involved... then another... then maybe their interest is finally piqued. If anybody read the interview w tane that @yojimbo conducted for ns2news, you will have noticed that the draw of competition and more specifically 'big' tournaments are a good motivation for some players. Even enough to maybe bring back some players who have moved on.
Tl:dr: I like the idea of more frequent tournaments, perhaps even more under the uwe umbrella to reach a broader audience than the NSL. Maybe even if they were more approachable/relaxed a la 7 v 7 or 8 v 8. Maybe it gets more ppl interested in competitive play or just ns2 in general.
At this point the idea of keeping the game homogeneous is just a pool to drown in.
It is not that I am offended by their words or actions but that I just can't enjoy playing games with such negative people. It would be like trying to play a friendly game with Rush Limbaugh and Al Sharpton (Two opposing American political talking heads that just create division). Either of those two would suck the fun out of anything they participated in.
At least for the veteran players, I think that might be a strong limiting factor.
I also want to include that I have participated in a past newcomer tournament and had a good experience.
no but serious. I need to learn how to communicate more politely on these forums, especially when attempting to prove a point about toxic players. the toxicity is not that bad even for players who are shit like i am. most of the time those guys shit on you they are damn fucking right. and with the nsl havin their rules redefined and are more strict on enforcing them it's not even that bad anymore.
saying they are toxic is just excuses. there are even complete rookies having <100h participating lately. and a lot of the players who played in the newcomer tournament aswell. heard non of em complainin yet.
of course it'S a bit more harsh. but that's because it's a COMPETETIVE environment. ppl compete with each other which includes plain mindgames.
u must not confuse taking stuff serious with beeing toxic. most of the BM is ment in a funny not offending way. if u feel offended by every crap bein thrown at u i wonder how u survive out there in RL.
Snip
oh and by the way: most of the toxicity during tournaments is not directed at players or teams but at the admins cause someone is always complaining.
Personally, while I think you should respect opponents and teammates alike, I'm "old fashioned" in that I think respect is earned. Dishing and taking can be a part of that process.
And there it is the simple solution on not beein a crybaby: Just leave! nobody forces you to stay. ppl shittalkin bout you 4 10 minutes straight. Just leave. make a complaint if u feel like it. But it normaly won't happen to newbies aslong as u are no douche. If u r comin in like: I'm the king of the world or be like fu i'm always right ppl will shit on you. if u r like: hey guys i'm new to comp they won't even yell at u as long as u r not wandering around like braindead ignoring everything they are telling you. remember it's competetive. ppl expect you to play like u care not like: I'm rambo just watch me.
there will always be players like this. especially when highskill players show up in lowskill gathers or when they are drunk.
More often they will be toxic to higher skill players not lower skill because they expect them to do better. If u behave like u r one they will expect u to play like one.
Someone rly beein harsh on u is rather seldom and as always you always have the possibility to leave.
but let me tell u one thing real quick: u sid u played in a NCT and u enjoyed it. tournaments are normaly as this. the only thing ppl get toxic about is when the seedings are not what they want them to be or if there is some oranistational struggles. You could totaly avoid that and still play in the tournament. if there is toxicity inside ur team than that'S not the fault of gathers or the nsl but of ur teammates who r spreading it. so you either have those individuals in ur team then that's sad 4 u or u will most likely never have contact with them in a way outside of scheduling matches and playing them. so u can just completely block them if u like. so i can't see y they keep u from playin in tournaments.
but jeah it's your choice
But it's not as much as he's saying and especialy new people when not acting like they don't give a shit about anything will almost never experience it at all.
By just leaving i did not mean the whole competetive scene but this one gather where the shittalk happens. From my experience of >1 year playing a lot of gathers with a lot of different ppl by now it decreased a lot when NSL staff changed to go strict on the rules (b4 that getting charged 4 breakin rules was a gamble often decided by personal preferences) and never was happening that often at all. As I said earlier most of the toxicity is directed to the admins due to ppl never beeing happy about what they decided or complaining about admin abuse.
As I'm officialy warned to watch my language by @IronHorse (no complaints, I can see ur point there) and this is way offtopic i'm gonna check out here.
Do what you want and enjoy the game how you want it to enjoy (except cheating ofcourse). But don't blame UWE when they try to revive the game and prevent you from stomping rookies and you suddenly have to play with people of or above ur imaginary skill level (hive means nothing). The playerbase is to low to have servers for every skillrange populated 24/7.
Maybe Hive 2.0 will fix some stuff
You are saying a lot of baseless assumptions about me that just really show you have no clue. You do not understand what I mean by toxicity and negative people. It is not so black and white as you seem to think it is. I have a few people agreeing with me, so it seems I am not the only one who has observed this.
Increase rookie level to 5 so new players can keep playing and practicing on rookie-only servers for longer before joining the non-rookie servers. You can still play on any server you want after reaching level 1 or finishing the tutorial.
WOW! Let's make the average player ownage even worse and reduce the servers they can join even more!!! YES!!!! So glad I uninstalled this game. You core 300 or so people, keep on playing with yourselves.
He is one of the absolute worst. In pubs, if I see him I just leave. I heard the NSL took him back in though. Hmm?
edit: 2021 is too soon.
Many rookies completed the tutorial/reached lvl3 and wanted to still play in rookie only servers in order to learn more.
Yet you think this increases stomping and the amount of servers you're able to join?? o.0
"None of us are deluded enough to think we're making a game that fits every gamer. We're making a game we think is badass, and hope other people do it."
I can see his point of view. In a way it kind of does.
Since rookies can stay in rookie only servers longer that means they're not joining regular servers, which translates to even fewer regular servers being populated... I mean it's only 2 more levels so they'll move out of it in time, but for the time being it does limit the # of servers you can find without a god-like pro stomping on them...
All in all I think the NS2 community can be divided into two groups.. You have the average or casual players who just want to play and have fun, and who hate the god-like pro's joining games and ruining them... Then you have the competitive types who think the answer to every complaint about the game is "get better" and that anyone can reach the levels of a god-like 4000 hive score 4.3 kdr pro with a little bit of practice...
Putting people in these ridiculous boxes is nonsense and unproductive.
For example, where do we put the people, like myself, who just want to have fun, and who welcome the god-like pro's to join my game.
Get the hell out with this nonsense. The spectrum of players in skill and opinions and motives is far more complicated and far more interesting than this ill-conceived binary tribalism.
The solution to your problem is pretty simple. Skill capped servers.
Let me clarify. When I said "average player ownage" I meant, he receives the ownage, not gives it. This assumes I understand the change. Since I uninstalled I haven't tried it.
Does the change mean that any player above level 5 cannot join a rookie server? It used to be level 3 right? So obviously this means 1) He is further restricted on servers he can play on. and 2) Now he can't even play against level 5 rookies unless they join non-rookie servers.
I hardly ever see rookies join non-rookie servers. If they did, it would bring the average skill down below 1200 which it rarely is. Heck, I don't even see non rookies play any more. I stated this before. Where is the level 6 to 15 range of players? They are gone. Me included now thanks to this bootcamp concept. This fact alone proves bootcamp is failing to retain anybody new.
@Nordic Can you please stop editing in replies to the post after yours, as it really screws up my reading comprehension of the thread, as I start looking backwards for what you are replying to..
Sadly, I agree.
This is why I never fully committed to playing competitively as there are quite a number of individuals that have questionable state of minds, supposedly fully grown men with child like mentalities.
Its a shame that so much talent is marred by a constant sea flow of LOLO, SPOOKY! GET REKT! KAPPA! wherever you go either gathers, public in-game and even ensl slack sometimes.
Don't get me wrong not all comp players are like this, there are truly humble players and good sports that can resist the urge to shit talk every 10 seconds.
Pity.
The competitive scene (its leadership, mostly) has a growth opportunity in effectively sanctioning toxicity.