The biggest thing that NS2 would actually need to bring in some new players or bring back old ones would be something as big as another game mode and combat would seem to be the most ideal. I don't know if its possible or feasible at the moment and it could just be wishful thinking but integrating combat SA into the main game client would be pretty incredible. Even just brushing up the modded version and adding it as a new mode into a patch might be really good for the game.
When people look at NS2, they see a multiplayer only game, with a small community, only 1 game mode and no singleplayer content. That's a pretty tough sell and nothing enticing to bring back old players.
I don't even think merging the standalone version of combat would bring in 10-15consistently new players, i mean it might spike but it's gonna drop over time, at this rate the only feasible way to salvage NS2 is to go full free to play with skins/gun customization sort of like dirtybomb without "enhancements" i would love to get a working ns2combat mod back for ns2.
I think that the biggest thing integrating Combat into NS2 would do is bring back old players (of which there are A LOT that no longer play)
Reasons the loss combat may have caused people to stop playing NS2:
1) They only play Combat
2) They objected to the combat split for reasons of "Principal" (paying for a "mod")
3) They want a more casual mode to practice with (no longer exists; no practise -> getting stopped -> not playing)
4) They want a quick and "commitment free" mode while waiting for a NS2 server to have a free slot (longer perceived wait time -> not playing)***
*** This is a big one for me. Combat made the wait time for a real round of NS2 feel MUCH smaller that without it.
So yeah, reintegrating Combat probably wont bring in new players, but will probably bring back old players who stopped playing.
But a totally different game mode that servers the same function in the same way would be just as good.
4) They want a quick and "commitment free" mode while waiting for a NS2 server to have a free slot (longer perceived wait time -> not playing)***
*** This is a big one for me. Combat made the wait time for a real round of NS2 feel MUCH smaller that without it.
NS1 Combat was popular because it was something quick and digestible that you can play for 15 minutes before going to school/work with no repercussions about abandoning your team. Some people got upset because it kept players around who necessarily weren't going to or weren't interested in playing the classic gamemode, but increasing playerbase is part of the draw of having 2 games in one.(3 if you count siege)
Since combat uses its own modified version of Spark it cant be ported back to NS2.
Faultlines should acknoledge that Combat is a failure and change business model giving it away for FREE.
Thats their best chance to get some media coverage like rockpapershotgun relaying the info and bringing new players in eventually.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2016
As close as I am with FLG and the whole team, I always said that combat was a poisoned chalice, even before Alex began work on the Combat Mod, and was the reason that I never actively developed combat itself. I didn't think it would even work as a mod let alone as a standalone.
The main things that made NS1 combat popular were the differences to vanilla, like the ability to buy your own weapons. These were merged into the vanilla NS2 experience, meaning that unless combat developed as something very different from NS1 combat, it would never be different enough from NS2 to warrant much time as a mod, let alone a standalone.
I honestly believe with additional game modes that veer away from being so closely associated to NS2, combat could find it's own identity and become it's own game. This was the original reasoning behind developing the game mode.
While it's a bit late to prove my point, with the Combat playerbase now non-existent, I have 2 dedicated modes that I am going to make for combat. One is the aforementioned game mode, and the 2nd will be a game mod I was working on for vanilla NS2, While my 2nd idea would certainly be much more interesting in NS2, it will be easier for me to implement in Combat due to the consistent code base.
If anyone ever plays them or not is another matter..
I don't even think merging the standalone version of combat would bring in 10-15consistently new players, i mean it might spike but it's gonna drop over time, at this rate the only feasible way to salvage NS2 is to go full free to play with skins/gun customization sort of like dirtybomb without "enhancements" i would love to get a working ns2combat mod back for ns2.
The mod will never return. The guys who created the mod own the content they created and uploaded to steam's workshop as per valve's workshop agreement, and they happen to be the same guys who made the standalone (as has been stated so many freakn'n times yet some people seem to have convinced themselves otherwise), so why would they bother updating the broken mod? (I'm sure there will be at least one person who says "why not just plagiarizer everything from the mod", all that will do is show your true colors and get a C&D order)
They have also stated that they are essentially leaving the project so I highly doubt they care about getting new players at this point, so again, why would they even consider making it free to play if they don't even care about it? Frankly if I was them I'd sink the project faster than the titanic after the self-entitled reactions from some of the people in the community.
on the one hand, combat DID tend to 'steal' players from the normal mode. on the other, it was GREAT for new players to use to learn on and get competent with specific gear or lifeforms via more consistent use in a live-fire setting than normal game mode would normally enable. still, sad to see such potential lead nowhere
Look i don't care for unauthorised copying, lets get that clear i copy however i want anyway, but i'm honestly being hypocritical here because i don't like NS2Combat, and i am sorry i brought that up.
1.Model bone structure is almost a complete replica from NS1 assets
2.Model was released/made before NS2 went GPL (it was patent protected prior, and still is for profit, so you can't sell it)
3.Model was released for NS2 and not Combat
4.I am forgetting my point here,
You're mistaking something here because NS1 assets were released under the GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE This model was based off NS1, and even used pretty much the same bone assets as the NS1 model implying that it's not a new model from scratch but the same one converted to be used with the NS2 animation nodes, the thing with the Gnu GPL is you can't re-sell for profit if it's directly from GNU GPL'd assets, especially when ice didn't purchase the license from UWE prior to the release of the source-code for NS1(i am not hating on ICE, i appreciate he made this model and giggle that he got $$$ from FLG).
Now again i'll be a bastard because NS1 isn't even registered with the patent office to begin with but Flayra/Charlie says it is, if as the source-code says that it is patented then the asset itself falls under that patent, again grey area here because i like ICE and ice's work, i appreciate it and want more of his work if he is still around. But someone earlier said "FLG licensed the use of the Spark engine/assets from UWE" that doesn't include NS1 assets from mods/maps, do you know how many times i've butted heads with people lying outright about having permission to copy mods/maps from NS1 authors? then they get all butthurt when you tell them they didn't even know the original creator nor did they get permission to release it as there own without giving any sort of credit to the original owners? should be ashamed at how some of you treated Kyle Abent, jeeze.
Anyway i am not going to get into a debate with you, as far as i am concerned you moved away from argumentation then came back to pick on something i said without first grasping the whole picture, that and ignoring anything i said previously in response to your rubbish posts.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2016
Thank you for answering my earlier question @nizb0ag as to why you weren't interested in listening to the truth about the situation.
It seems the lies you currently believe and propagate help fuel your hatred for Combat. Thank you for explaining yourself so clearly. I now know the value of your opinion on anything to do with Combat.
BTW, as publisher of Combat, UWE vetted every single asset/map/texture added to the game, so by not pressing any charges on ICE, they have clearly allowed the situation anyway, so your whole argument is an exercise in futility and blatant lack of understanding of the situation.
why you weren't interested in listening to the truth about the situation.
It seems the lies you currently believe and propagate help fuel your hatred for Combat. Thank you for explaining yourself so clearly. I now know the value of your opinion on anything to do with Combat.
BTW, as publisher of Combat, UWE vetted every single asset/map/texture added to the game, so by not pressing any charges on ICE, they have clearly allowed the situation anyway, so your whole argument is an exercise in futility and blatant lack of understanding of the situation.
Sorry just because FLG and cronies want to dictate there own version of the truth to me and many other NS/combat fans doesn't mean i have to accept a clearly misconstrued understanding of how things came to be, if you read my previous posts i posted relevent information in regards to "evidence" that i was given and there was no response, or in your case an overtly condescending case with no basis.
I never said they should press charges against ICE did i? don't take words from your own mouth and put them into mine, clearly what i am saying is futile because here i am just pointing out that what happened didn't happen, why getting so worked up over something we both love? i haven't played this game since 2003 day in and day out to debate over a bunch of people defending FLG whom didn't even want to use the Spark engine or even associate themselves with NS2 universe in anyway or form from the start, it's there own fault.
The difference between Hugh run UWE and UWE run UWE is very different, cancerous at that.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Look, you mis-understand something every time you post. FLG were making a game called Xenoswarm, on Unity.
When UWE approached them to make Combat, it was always going to be on spark. There was never a discussion about combat being on an engine other than spark.
UWE announced they wouldn't licence spark, so Xenoswarm had to be built on another engine. Combat was always going to be built on spark.
Comments
I don't even think merging the standalone version of combat would bring in 10-15consistently new players, i mean it might spike but it's gonna drop over time, at this rate the only feasible way to salvage NS2 is to go full free to play with skins/gun customization sort of like dirtybomb without "enhancements" i would love to get a working ns2combat mod back for ns2.
Reasons the loss combat may have caused people to stop playing NS2:
1) They only play Combat
2) They objected to the combat split for reasons of "Principal" (paying for a "mod")
3) They want a more casual mode to practice with (no longer exists; no practise -> getting stopped -> not playing)
4) They want a quick and "commitment free" mode while waiting for a NS2 server to have a free slot (longer perceived wait time -> not playing)***
*** This is a big one for me. Combat made the wait time for a real round of NS2 feel MUCH smaller that without it.
So yeah, reintegrating Combat probably wont bring in new players, but will probably bring back old players who stopped playing.
But a totally different game mode that servers the same function in the same way would be just as good.
Alternatives include:
- Last Stand
- NS2: Assault (http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/139456/ns2-assault-alpha/p1)***
***Help force this mod into existence by harassing its author to work on it!
I don't think those mods carry the same weight nor interest as Combat does.
NS1 Combat was popular because it was something quick and digestible that you can play for 15 minutes before going to school/work with no repercussions about abandoning your team. Some people got upset because it kept players around who necessarily weren't going to or weren't interested in playing the classic gamemode, but increasing playerbase is part of the draw of having 2 games in one.(3 if you count siege)
Faultlines should acknoledge that Combat is a failure and change business model giving it away for FREE.
Thats their best chance to get some media coverage like rockpapershotgun relaying the info and bringing new players in eventually.
The main things that made NS1 combat popular were the differences to vanilla, like the ability to buy your own weapons. These were merged into the vanilla NS2 experience, meaning that unless combat developed as something very different from NS1 combat, it would never be different enough from NS2 to warrant much time as a mod, let alone a standalone.
I honestly believe with additional game modes that veer away from being so closely associated to NS2, combat could find it's own identity and become it's own game. This was the original reasoning behind developing the game mode.
While it's a bit late to prove my point, with the Combat playerbase now non-existent, I have 2 dedicated modes that I am going to make for combat. One is the aforementioned game mode, and the 2nd will be a game mod I was working on for vanilla NS2, While my 2nd idea would certainly be much more interesting in NS2, it will be easier for me to implement in Combat due to the consistent code base.
If anyone ever plays them or not is another matter..
The mod will never return. The guys who created the mod own the content they created and uploaded to steam's workshop as per valve's workshop agreement, and they happen to be the same guys who made the standalone (as has been stated so many freakn'n times yet some people seem to have convinced themselves otherwise), so why would they bother updating the broken mod? (I'm sure there will be at least one person who says "why not just plagiarizer everything from the mod", all that will do is show your true colors and get a C&D order)
They have also stated that they are essentially leaving the project so I highly doubt they care about getting new players at this point, so again, why would they even consider making it free to play if they don't even care about it? Frankly if I was them I'd sink the project faster than the titanic after the self-entitled reactions from some of the people in the community.
*EDIT
Oh an by the way, ICE indeed owned the copyright to his ns1style lmg model and therefore 100% could give flg the rights to it. Don't believe me? Here's the law:
http://copyrightuser.org/topics/faqs/#10
http://copyrightuser.org/using-and-reusing/
Faultline shoulder pad symbol, NS1 rifle model (as an optional rifle for marine), NS1 Fade (optional fade for alien)
Faultline Supporter badge (given to all players who bought combat only)
please do this, Hugh and the faultline guys make it happen
Look i don't care for unauthorised copying, lets get that clear i copy however i want anyway, but i'm honestly being hypocritical here because i don't like NS2Combat, and i am sorry i brought that up.
1.Model bone structure is almost a complete replica from NS1 assets
2.Model was released/made before NS2 went GPL (it was patent protected prior, and still is for profit, so you can't sell it)
3.Model was released for NS2 and not Combat
4.I am forgetting my point here,
You're mistaking something here because NS1 assets were released under the GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE This model was based off NS1, and even used pretty much the same bone assets as the NS1 model implying that it's not a new model from scratch but the same one converted to be used with the NS2 animation nodes, the thing with the Gnu GPL is you can't re-sell for profit if it's directly from GNU GPL'd assets, especially when ice didn't purchase the license from UWE prior to the release of the source-code for NS1(i am not hating on ICE, i appreciate he made this model and giggle that he got $$$ from FLG).
Now again i'll be a bastard because NS1 isn't even registered with the patent office to begin with but Flayra/Charlie says it is, if as the source-code says that it is patented then the asset itself falls under that patent, again grey area here because i like ICE and ice's work, i appreciate it and want more of his work if he is still around. But someone earlier said "FLG licensed the use of the Spark engine/assets from UWE" that doesn't include NS1 assets from mods/maps, do you know how many times i've butted heads with people lying outright about having permission to copy mods/maps from NS1 authors? then they get all butthurt when you tell them they didn't even know the original creator nor did they get permission to release it as there own without giving any sort of credit to the original owners? should be ashamed at how some of you treated Kyle Abent, jeeze.
Anyway i am not going to get into a debate with you, as far as i am concerned you moved away from argumentation then came back to pick on something i said without first grasping the whole picture, that and ignoring anything i said previously in response to your rubbish posts.
It seems the lies you currently believe and propagate help fuel your hatred for Combat. Thank you for explaining yourself so clearly. I now know the value of your opinion on anything to do with Combat.
BTW, as publisher of Combat, UWE vetted every single asset/map/texture added to the game, so by not pressing any charges on ICE, they have clearly allowed the situation anyway, so your whole argument is an exercise in futility and blatant lack of understanding of the situation.
Sorry just because FLG and cronies want to dictate there own version of the truth to me and many other NS/combat fans doesn't mean i have to accept a clearly misconstrued understanding of how things came to be, if you read my previous posts i posted relevent information in regards to "evidence" that i was given and there was no response, or in your case an overtly condescending case with no basis.
I never said they should press charges against ICE did i? don't take words from your own mouth and put them into mine, clearly what i am saying is futile because here i am just pointing out that what happened didn't happen, why getting so worked up over something we both love? i haven't played this game since 2003 day in and day out to debate over a bunch of people defending FLG whom didn't even want to use the Spark engine or even associate themselves with NS2 universe in anyway or form from the start, it's there own fault.
The difference between Hugh run UWE and UWE run UWE is very different, cancerous at that.
When UWE approached them to make Combat, it was always going to be on spark. There was never a discussion about combat being on an engine other than spark.
UWE announced they wouldn't licence spark, so Xenoswarm had to be built on another engine. Combat was always going to be built on spark.