@WasabiOne
Rather than you telling us that we don't meet the requirements, is there somewhere you can point me to where I can see the full list of rules so we can understand why we do not deserve to be whitelisted?
It would be nice to know the full requirements beforehand, rather than to be told why we do not meet them after. I know you said that you and Hellrunner had spoken about this previously but that was between the two of you.
I understand there is a lot going on with the whole modding situation right now, but when there are/were mods that changed things in a similar way and are widely considered acceptable, it makes you look biased against us.
Regardless of how Hellrunner may have acted, he is the most passionate guy I know when it comes to NS2. No matter what you may think of him, he has done more for this game than many of us ever will, especially when it comes to helping and keeping the newer players interested in the game. He is the crazy German guy afterall.
A ) Some people prioritise the purity of the skill system.
B ) Some people prioritise modding (and not being dissuaded by their servers losing out on hive)
The thing is nobody has provided any evidence that hellrunners mods have had any impact at all on hive.
So nobody knows if A is even being affected, meanwhile people are obviously getting upset as can be seen in the bickering in this thread.
To further prove the point;
1. The very way the hive system is built means hells modifications are unlikely to have a noticeable difference assuming people don't 100% play one side, (it averages out)
2. Hells changes are literally the mid point between vanilla and comp mod (and even then only on two things), whereas comp mods changes are significantly greater.
3. An exemption has been made for large player servers, nobody has provided any evidence that large servers cause less or no impact to the purity of the skill system as compared to hells.
I can see so little evidence that his server is impacting hive, or even shot in the dark reasoning about how it could.
So why push people away over this?
As i've said before, if it turns out to be a problem then you can always revisit this.
A ) Some people prioritise the purity of the skill system.
B ) Some people prioritise modding (and not being dissuaded by their servers losing out on hive)
The thing is nobody has provided any evidence that hellrunners mods have had any impact at all on hive.
So nobody knows if A is even being affected, meanwhile people are obviously getting upset as can be seen in the bickering in this thread.
To further prove the point;
1. The very way the hive system is built means hells modifications are unlikely to have a noticeable difference assuming people don't 100% play one side, (it averages out)
2. Hells changes are literally the mid point between vanilla and comp mod (and even then only on two things), whereas comp mods changes are significantly greater.
3. An exemption has been made for large player servers, nobody has provided any evidence that large servers cause less or no impact to the purity of the skill system as compared to hells.
I can see so little evidence that his server is impacting hive, or even shot in the dark reasoning about how it could.
So why push people away over this?
As i've said before, if it turns out to be a problem then you can always revisit this.
FWIW, and I don't believe it's been mentioned here, but Hellrunner once flooded Hive with thousands of fake 'rounds', hopefully as an unintended side effect of a mod but it was in essence a DDoS on the Hive system.
More to the point however, if UWE allowed a custom balance mod with these changes to be whitelisted, then they have to allow every custom balance mod to be whitelisted, yes?
wtf are you talking about... i hear that for the first time ^^... the only thousands of rounds submitted are the ones played, man.. I do not have the skill nor the ambition to pull THAT kind of stunt... not to mention time... seems to me like your throwing with dirt, man
and no.. not EVERY balance mod should be allowed... we are not modding dual welder exos or lerk lift in the game... all the changes are tested and proven neccesarry... ALL BOTH of em ... (onos gore on 95, minigun on 21)
I'm sure there are more issues with the balance in 7v7 but these are the worst offenders
So changing serverslots above official limit via hex editor hack is ok by this rules?
Reducing gore damage by 5 is changing the game more than unofficial slotsizes?
Apparently so.
I can only imagine that some of the dev team must like those good awful ns2large servers.
Or they're friends with the ns2large server operators.
Only reason a server with such a drastic change (that totally and completely throws balance out the window) could be whitelisted while other servers with minor changes (some that actually improve balance) are not.
If you're using golden's "HB balance mod does nothing to outcomes" as a point, then I'm pretty sure the devs can come back and ask you why your changes are needed in the first place. Double edged sword, my friend.
Regarding the large servers... they shouldn't be whitelisted for obvious reasons. I appreciate the fact that they help the community but they should not be used to calculate someone's "skill score." As I've said in the past, you can be a useless potato on woozas and still win the round because your individual impact on the round is so miniscule.
The thing with balance change mods is "Where is the line?"
Where does a balance mod cross the line to be "too much"?
I think it's just safer to leave them all out.
As far as playercount goes, I'd love to see Hive2 take that as a new gamemode and seperate it's skill level, same with CompMod. But I rather doubt that would happen.
this will never happen! fun games > Hive = me sleeping better... It's meaningles.. why not let em in and whitelist then?! ... all the fuzz for nothing! I'm done.. last post .. I won't let my server get raped by half decent Oni .. FIX the balance for everyone.. not just the comp ppl... till then it stays and there are no excuses NOT to whitelist! Other than personal bias wich has no place amongst professionals, does it?!
On the other side of that coin, if it's meaningless, then why not whitelist?
Tgns has a win or lose countdown for concede. I'd argue that is significantly more game changing if the winning team does NOT kill the enemy hive/chair than dmg values being so slightly adjusted. They're whitelisted.
I dunno, seems like a pissing contest at this point.
For the record, I'm not arguing that tgns shouldn't be whitelisted.
if the winning team does NOT kill the enemy hive/chair than dmg values being so slightly adjusted. They're whitelisted..
@Wyzcrak Can correct me, but IIRC the amount that happened was ~3% or something small.
I've seen the winning teams concede more than that percentage. (for the lols or tired from turtling)
Any mod to NS2 from vanilla should not be whitelisted...... Just a statement to prove a point.
With the varried degrees of opinions, the only ones that really count, will be the new players. Too bad the line between fairness and unfair won't ever be established because I do not believe UWE know's the definition of 'OFFICIAL'.
Well, these are just statements that do not have to be true. I'm just trying to make a point of perspective.
Servers that enabled GAME BALANCE mods that are not COMPMOD will be removed from whitelisting. That's the rule, that's what I have told everyone in server ops on discord, that is what I told hellrunner. He agreed to remove the balance mod he was using and we whitelisted him, just a week or so later he made a new mod and hid balance changes in it, so the server was removed from the whitelist. I dont like doing this, but I also dont like being taken advantage of. Be honest and follow the policy and you get to be ranked.
I would like @HEllrunner2k to defend this statement. There may currently only be 2 ineffective balance changes now, but if what Wasabi here claims is true, then how in the world can anyone trust that you won't sneak in other, abusable, changes?
Did it happen like Wasabi say, do you own that behavior, what's your side of the story?
I "snuk" em back in cuz they where needed... What's worse? Me ensuring fun games on my turf or (some of) the developers pissing all over my effords, money and time? there was nothing sneaky about it by the way. And it's really sad that they go specificaly through the server mod code just so they can say "GOTCHA".. they sure as HELL didn't play with us. It's all just confirmation that we're not dealing with professionals that care for the ppl that actually play the game. I'm no longer in for the pissing contest! If you wanna make me look bad im my absence, go ahead.. just more confirmation. this got reduculas LONG ago and is so far beneath me that you couldn't see my feet if you'd use hubble!
And it's really sad that they go specificaly through the server mod code just so they can say "GOTCHA".. they sure as HELL didn't play with us. It's all just confirmation that we're not dealing with professionals that care for the ppl that actually play the game.
I, for one, am glad they go the extra mile and do this kind of quality control to keep the hive system consistent.
Sorry man but but in my eyes you're just digging yourself deeper right now.
And it's really sad that they go specificaly through the server mod code just so they can say "GOTCHA".. they sure as HELL didn't play with us. It's all just confirmation that we're not dealing with professionals that care for the ppl that actually play the game.
I, for one, am glad they go the extra mile and do this kind of quality control to keep the hive system consistent.
Sorry man but but in my eyes you're just digging yourself deeper right now.
Except it isn't consistant at all! Kinda funny the larger servers are OK'ed now that people start asking why they were allowed and Hell's mod wasn't. Same with compmod, those are whitelisted right? They even have more of a deviation from vanilla iirc.
I just find it kinda sad that my stats won't be recorded on Hive because the game I play isn't considered to be the same.
I, for one, am glad they go the extra mile and do this kind of quality control to keep the hive system consistent.
Hahaha.. do you REALLY think they do this for every mod in the workshop? ... you obviously do not understand what's going on here. I speak my mind.. you could be the damn pope. and some ppl just like to be worshiped rather than spoken to as an equal or even challenged to improve. ESPECIALLY if there are truths that are unpleasent to deal with. (this behavior brought you Star Wars episode 1-3)
SO ... sorry for spoiling your delusions, man, but this is a personal vendetta and as unprofessional as it gets. BY the way... did you just say quality asurence yeah.. the BIGGEST strong point of UWE, right?! ^^
there was nothing to be veryfied. You'd know if you actually read the thread... I mentioned all this time and time again before. tl;dr right?!. but shouting like you know shit ^^
Tell me.. Do you run a server? How much money, efford and time are you investing in YOUR community to make it family? You shouldn't be whitelisted for this conversation.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2016
Well, looks like you need a community around a 42 (now 46 slot) clusterfuck instead of a server with some voicechanges and 2 very small balancechanges to be approved.
I always thought this game is balanced around 8v8 and with the approval of this clusterfuck UWE say it didnt change the gameplay?
Laughable.
On top of that they approved a server wich cant exist without a exe hack.
Seems legic. LOL
But its like "oh my god, so many enjoy to play there we cant touch this servers" (*cough* while they say at the same time that this serversize is UNSUPPORTED)
And it's really sad that they go specificaly through the server mod code just so they can say "GOTCHA".. they sure as HELL didn't play with us. It's all just confirmation that we're not dealing with professionals that care for the ppl that actually play the game.
I, for one, am glad they go the extra mile and do this kind of quality control to keep the hive system consistent.
Sorry man but but in my eyes you're just digging yourself deeper right now.
Except it isn't consistant at all! Kinda funny the larger servers are OK'ed now that people start asking why they were allowed and Hell's mod wasn't. Same with compmod, those are whitelisted right? They even have more of a deviation from vanilla iirc.
I just find it kinda sad that my stats won't be recorded on Hive because the game I play isn't considered to be the same.
Yes, i agree. Larger servers should not be hive whitelisted. I don't understand that, either.
I, for one, am glad they go the extra mile and do this kind of quality control to keep the hive system consistent.
Hahaha.. do you REALLY think they do this for every mod in the workshop? ... you obviously do not understand what's going on here. I speak my mind.. you could be the damn pope. and some ppl just like to be worshiped rather than spoken to as an equal or even challenged to improve. ESPECIALLY if there are truths that are unpleasent to deal with. (this behavior brought you Star Wars episode 1-3)
SO ... sorry for spoiling your delusions, man, but this is a personal vendetta and as unprofessional as it gets. BY the way... did you just say quality asurence yeah.. the BIGGEST strong point of UWE, right?! ^^
Actually you were removed for displaying the same attitude that you do here. Constantly berating people that don't conform to your point of view. You even swore at IronHorse when he politely explained what was going on.
This thread has been derailed enough already, so I'm not going to converse with you anymore. I've made my views clear on the ranked or not ranked debate already.
FYI.. half of my posts have been deleted by IronHorse in that conversation
Because you were violating the rules of the channel and 2 different admins' orders, as was explained to you for you a 3rd time by foxy in this thread, and as @DC_Darkling backs up right there ^
SO ... sorry for spoiling your delusions, man, but this is a personal vendetta and as unprofessional as it gets
As far as I can tell this is a personal and very one sided vendetta of yours, and yes, about as unprofessional as it gets. I find it hard to take you seriously.
Sorry for spoiling your delusions, man.
GhoulofGSG9Join Date: 2013-03-31Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
edited March 2016
I'm closing this thread because i feel like there is nothing more to say about the topic at this point.
When hive started only vanilla servers got white listed. But as we all know the amount of servers running pure vanilla can be counted at one hand.
So the rules got adjusted so that all servers get white listed which do not run any mod of the following categories:
The mod changes the overall game balance.
The mod can be used to spoof or manipulate round end results.
On request the comp mod got added to the list of allowed mods.
Servers who have been white listed and enable a mod which fits to any of the above categories are temporarily black listed and the server operator receives a warning. If the server continues to run a mod of the above categories it gets permanently blacklisted. After that point there will be no further debate about white listing it again.
I want to note that the player count of a server was never a criteria as the hive rating takes the player count into account.
In case anyone feels like a currently white listed server does not follow the above listed rule feel free to report it at hive website.
Comments
Rather than you telling us that we don't meet the requirements, is there somewhere you can point me to where I can see the full list of rules so we can understand why we do not deserve to be whitelisted?
It would be nice to know the full requirements beforehand, rather than to be told why we do not meet them after. I know you said that you and Hellrunner had spoken about this previously but that was between the two of you.
I understand there is a lot going on with the whole modding situation right now, but when there are/were mods that changed things in a similar way and are widely considered acceptable, it makes you look biased against us.
Regardless of how Hellrunner may have acted, he is the most passionate guy I know when it comes to NS2. No matter what you may think of him, he has done more for this game than many of us ever will, especially when it comes to helping and keeping the newer players interested in the game. He is the crazy German guy afterall.
He also stated that he would remove the whitelisted from the UWE last stand server. It was not ever supposed to be whitelisted with last stand.
LOL
Priceless.
A ) Some people prioritise the purity of the skill system.
B ) Some people prioritise modding (and not being dissuaded by their servers losing out on hive)
The thing is nobody has provided any evidence that hellrunners mods have had any impact at all on hive.
So nobody knows if A is even being affected, meanwhile people are obviously getting upset as can be seen in the bickering in this thread.
To further prove the point;
1. The very way the hive system is built means hells modifications are unlikely to have a noticeable difference assuming people don't 100% play one side, (it averages out)
2. Hells changes are literally the mid point between vanilla and comp mod (and even then only on two things), whereas comp mods changes are significantly greater.
3. An exemption has been made for large player servers, nobody has provided any evidence that large servers cause less or no impact to the purity of the skill system as compared to hells.
I can see so little evidence that his server is impacting hive, or even shot in the dark reasoning about how it could.
So why push people away over this?
As i've said before, if it turns out to be a problem then you can always revisit this.
FWIW, and I don't believe it's been mentioned here, but Hellrunner once flooded Hive with thousands of fake 'rounds', hopefully as an unintended side effect of a mod but it was in essence a DDoS on the Hive system.
More to the point however, if UWE allowed a custom balance mod with these changes to be whitelisted, then they have to allow every custom balance mod to be whitelisted, yes?
and no.. not EVERY balance mod should be allowed... we are not modding dual welder exos or lerk lift in the game... all the changes are tested and proven neccesarry... ALL BOTH of em ... (onos gore on 95, minigun on 21)
I'm sure there are more issues with the balance in 7v7 but these are the worst offenders
Apparently so.
I can only imagine that some of the dev team must like those good awful ns2large servers.
Or they're friends with the ns2large server operators.
Only reason a server with such a drastic change (that totally and completely throws balance out the window) could be whitelisted while other servers with minor changes (some that actually improve balance) are not.
sarcasm mode off
If you're using golden's "HB balance mod does nothing to outcomes" as a point, then I'm pretty sure the devs can come back and ask you why your changes are needed in the first place. Double edged sword, my friend.
Regarding the large servers... they shouldn't be whitelisted for obvious reasons. I appreciate the fact that they help the community but they should not be used to calculate someone's "skill score." As I've said in the past, you can be a useless potato on woozas and still win the round because your individual impact on the round is so miniscule.
Where does a balance mod cross the line to be "too much"?
I think it's just safer to leave them all out.
As far as playercount goes, I'd love to see Hive2 take that as a new gamemode and seperate it's skill level, same with CompMod. But I rather doubt that would happen.
Or just disable yours since your balance changes are meaningless.
Tgns has a win or lose countdown for concede. I'd argue that is significantly more game changing if the winning team does NOT kill the enemy hive/chair than dmg values being so slightly adjusted. They're whitelisted.
I dunno, seems like a pissing contest at this point.
For the record, I'm not arguing that tgns shouldn't be whitelisted.
I've seen the winning teams concede more than that percentage. (for the lols or tired from turtling)
With the varried degrees of opinions, the only ones that really count, will be the new players. Too bad the line between fairness and unfair won't ever be established because I do not believe UWE know's the definition of 'OFFICIAL'.
Well, these are just statements that do not have to be true. I'm just trying to make a point of perspective.
Did it happen like Wasabi say, do you own that behavior, what's your side of the story?
TGNS enjoys whitelist, presently. It suits it, arguably. It's NOT entitled to it.
I, for one, am glad they go the extra mile and do this kind of quality control to keep the hive system consistent.
Sorry man but but in my eyes you're just digging yourself deeper right now.
Except it isn't consistant at all! Kinda funny the larger servers are OK'ed now that people start asking why they were allowed and Hell's mod wasn't. Same with compmod, those are whitelisted right? They even have more of a deviation from vanilla iirc.
I just find it kinda sad that my stats won't be recorded on Hive because the game I play isn't considered to be the same.
Hahaha.. do you REALLY think they do this for every mod in the workshop? ... you obviously do not understand what's going on here. I speak my mind.. you could be the damn pope. and some ppl just like to be worshiped rather than spoken to as an equal or even challenged to improve. ESPECIALLY if there are truths that are unpleasent to deal with. (this behavior brought you Star Wars episode 1-3)
SO ... sorry for spoiling your delusions, man, but this is a personal vendetta and as unprofessional as it gets. BY the way... did you just say quality asurence
Tell me.. Do you run a server? How much money, efford and time are you investing in YOUR community to make it family? You shouldn't be whitelisted for this conversation.
I always thought this game is balanced around 8v8 and with the approval of this clusterfuck UWE say it didnt change the gameplay?
Laughable.
On top of that they approved a server wich cant exist without a exe hack.
Seems legic. LOL
But its like "oh my god, so many enjoy to play there we cant touch this servers" (*cough* while they say at the same time that this serversize is UNSUPPORTED)
Who cares about compmod outside compscene? Noone.
Yes, i agree. Larger servers should not be hive whitelisted. I don't understand that, either.
As far as I can tell this is a personal and very one sided vendetta of yours, and yes, about as unprofessional as it gets. I find it hard to take you seriously.
Sorry for spoiling your delusions, man.
When hive started only vanilla servers got white listed. But as we all know the amount of servers running pure vanilla can be counted at one hand.
So the rules got adjusted so that all servers get white listed which do not run any mod of the following categories:
On request the comp mod got added to the list of allowed mods.
Servers who have been white listed and enable a mod which fits to any of the above categories are temporarily black listed and the server operator receives a warning. If the server continues to run a mod of the above categories it gets permanently blacklisted. After that point there will be no further debate about white listing it again.
I want to note that the player count of a server was never a criteria as the hive rating takes the player count into account.
In case anyone feels like a currently white listed server does not follow the above listed rule feel free to report it at hive website.