Time It Takes To Kill A Hive, Etc. With A Welder?
McMasters
Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8536Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8536Members, Constellation
Comments
knife kills stuff slowly
if u have a welder u dont need a knife , takes about a minute to kill a hive i think
(*Rush off to lan to check)
It takes 64 Seconds to to knife a Hive to death, 78 with Four Healing tower support
Both of those are un-upgraded... HOWEVER oddly enough time to kill INCREASE when you resurch damage upgrades, to be exact it increase to nearly 28 seconds with a weilder while decreases to 57 seconds with a knife!
Hmm possible bug here?
Wouldn't you expect it to? Its very hot
No, because i thought it would have been designed as a tool and not a weapon. And after marines have the better ranged weapons (hmg and shottie vs acid rocket) and the better anti structure weapons (hmg, sometimes bugged siege and grenade launcher vs allways bugged bilebomb and.... well bilebomb) i would have assumed they at least have the better melee weapons. But instead their melee weapons are even considered so powerful that they need to be "balanced" with placing the eyes of skulks and lerks inside the mouth. Funny somehow.
"Oh well, he has a welder, I'll just go sit in the corner and wait for him to pull out his HMG so that I have a chance to kill him . . ."
Totally.
A fade and meeting a bunnyhopping light marine with a tool shouldnt even be a challenge.
Try this experiment: take a piece of wood, and try to get it split in two with an axe. Then try again with a welder. You'll notice that the welder quickly burns the surface of the wood, but then progress is very slow. On living things, it would be very painful (assuming aliens can feel pain), but it would kill slowly.
Flamethrowers are a different matter because they affect large areas of skin, and they make it impossible to see and breathe if you have burning fuel on your face.
3 Marines with Welders and HA (Alien Structures, CQB Aliens)
3 Marines with HMG/HA (Medium to Long Range Aliens)
Commander supports team with Ammo and Health.
I have cleared entire maps in teams like this, absolutely deadly.
A fade and meeting a bunnyhopping light marine with a tool shouldnt even be a challenge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You ever used a real welder on it's hottest flame? It would do an stupid amount of damage to living flesh, hell it's designed to melt METAL ffs.
So taking into account that NS is set in the "future" I would assume that the welders they use are better and weld faster meaning hotter faster flame = loads of damage.
The welder is fine as it is, sure it's ment to weld and not burn things to death but why shouldn't someone turn it on an alien and burn them with it lol if you want to do anything to the welder, limit the time it can be used for before it over heats or give it a limited gas supply.
In fact it's a device that injects nano's that do the repairing instead, resulting in fixing buildings or armor.
The result of pouring raw nanos programmed to kill foreign matter onto a creature from the Khaara would logically result in something more than mild discomfort.
Don't get me wrong though, the welder should be toned down just a little. Not a lot, not halfway, or a quarter, just a little more.
Sledgehammers, crowbars, and many other items were designed as tools, but they can make effective melee weapons too.
I like this overheating idea.
Something like the heat bar on the side for MG's in DoD perhaps? Maybe heats up a little slower, since it is meant to burn stuff, but still overheats. Welding a hive to death is pretty ridiculous.
Think of it this way too. If a bullet can't penetrate an alien's armor/skin/carapace, it's obviously got the strength of metal, no? Welders are meant to melt metal, so it would be an even match. The thing wouldn't go right through like it was welding butter.
Organic matter is even harder to weld through than metal, actually. If you heat metal, it loses a lot of structural strength long before it melts. And then when it melts stuff drips away. Additionally, a metal armor conducts heat well, so it wouldn't protect much against heat.
Even then, a small welder doesn't go through metal quickly.
Organic matter is different, sure the top layer is destroyed quickly. However, it often turns into a tarry mass that has to be burned away (need an oxygen-rich flame for that, not on a welder, would work with a cutting torch but those aren't suitable for welding). If it can't be burned away quickly (fuel-rich or balanced flame) you need to vaporize it, which requires lots of energy that can't be used to destroy deeper things. Also consider that the organic matter insulates better than metal. A normal wooden door can stop a fire for a while.
If the heavy armor is metal the welder would in reality (excluding game nano-effects) hurt the marines more than the aliens. Especially considering the aliens have bullet-proof armor, which surely is a lot thicker than human skin.
In fact it's a device that injects nano's that do the repairing instead, resulting in fixing buildings or armor.
The result of pouring raw nanos programmed to kill foreign matter onto a creature from the Khaara would logically result in something more than mild discomfort.
Don't get me wrong though, the welder should be toned down just a little. Not a lot, not halfway, or a quarter, just a little more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ What he said ^
"Oh well, he has a welder, I'll just go sit in the corner and wait for him to pull out his HMG so that I have a chance to kill him . . ."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to practice aliens more. I've never met a marine with a welder that I couldn't kill, seriously. Not bragging or anything, but the welder is highly overrrated. I can chomp a welder wielding marine, i can acid rocket / slash...
It is so easy to kill as aliens, I honestly don't see the problem with welders. I've never had a hive killed by a welder either, just kill the marine before he gets there.
Ravlen
Your comparing a KE Based attack VS an Energy infusion?
Horrible Comparson! Quick heres a better one, How long does it take to chop a block of wood into Ash with an Ax?
Hmm anyone? There you go, even WORSE comparison
The fact is each and designed for diffrent tasks and here's an idea, How quickly can you chop through Jello VS how quickly you can burn through it with a weilder?
Tessinal stregnth we have to figgure this as a roughly twenty Yard by twenty Yard Cube and the idea is to chop through to the gooey center
Which will do it quicker? Ax or Weilder?
Ravlen
as for welder, welder is not more powerfull then normal melee attacks (Also there is the fact that aliens tend to have more HP then a marine)
Once I respawned as a skulk in a hive under attack. There was a HA walking around with a welder and some LA's with LMG's. I started chomping the HA, but he never hurt me with his "uber welder". The LA's eventually caught on and killed me.
Other people mentioned time limits or fuel limits ("ammo") for welders.
Really now. It's not a weapon, and shouldn't be balanced as an item consistantly used in combat.
I've been killed once with a knife/welder while not a skulk. I had 11 hp as an onos and backed up into the airlock on ns_bast. A marine had apparently just come back to base from the other side and knifed my buttocks. Doesn't really say much either way, but other than that, knife/welder attacks have been just suicides for the idiot marines that try them.
Just gonna repeat this since it makes perfect sense to me.