Stab Bug

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Comments

  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    That's how I remember it, yes. Of course you could not shadow step when you already was shadow stepping.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    That's how I remember it, yes. Of course you could not shadow step when you already was shadow stepping.

    This is called a cooldown.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    Frozen wrote: »
    That's how I remember it, yes. Of course you could not shadow step when you already was shadow stepping.

    This is called a cooldown.

    No it's called active frames.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited June 2016
    To set the record straight : Besides energy usage, Shadowstep actually had a very brief cooldown of 0.73s

    Restricting movement for Stab only made sense when shadowstep existed.. because you could use it to move and land your stab
    The ability has been useless for a while due to this, as well as games typically being over before being researched.

    There's a lot of fun things you can do that wouldn't overlap with focus or Swipe, (Like return vortex as a way to pluck a single marine out from a group in order to 1v1 them in the ether) but really I dont think it's worth investing development time into so long as the round is over by then anyways - as an alien khammander I would still skip researching that in order to rush to Biomass 9 / contamination to end the round..
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I have seen stab as not a player damage weapon, but as a structure damage weapon. Fade stab does puncture damage which does I think half damage on structures. With stab you can get more DPS which helps in killing structures. I would even go so far as to call this a hidden mechanic that even veterans don't really know about.

    If it was made clear that stab was more oriented towards structure damage, would it be researched more?
  • sensen Join Date: 2015-06-06 Member: 205292Members
    A handful of times in games in the past I have pointed out that stab is far better for structure/armor damage and the response from other players has invariably been "Fades shouldn't be attacking structures anyway."
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Nordic wrote: »
    I have seen stab as not a player damage weapon, but as a structure damage weapon. Fade stab does puncture damage which does I think half damage on structures. With stab you can get more DPS which helps in killing structures. I would even go so far as to call this a hidden mechanic that even veterans don't really know about.

    If it was made clear that stab was more oriented towards structure damage, would it be researched more?

    The energy cost is too high for it to be effective in most scenarios
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I rarely ever fade, so take this with a grain of salt. A few weeks ago I was fading and we were winning by a good bit. I am a bad fade which was helping the marine team hang on. The commander researched stab, so I went around stabbing RT's with skulks inbetween killing marines. It worked well. A skulk and I were able to kill an IP together while I used stab.

    Acid rocket would be better for a structure weapon.
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer
    Acidrockets were the most effective weapon to lower the marines armor.. :)
    I dont think it would be good, if its a structure only weapon...
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members
    sen wrote: »
    "Fades shouldn't be attacking structures anyway."

    Well yea, there aren't many case where the fade should attack structures rather than scout and kill marines:
    (to finish off an RT that has no armor or to body-block a phase gate, that's about it.)

    Fade is the complete opposite of gorge. It's specialized in combat but with low structure damage. If you give it bile bomb or "acid rocket" it breaks its purpose.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Actually fades should be killing structures.

    Halving fade structure damage is a band-aid fix to the game.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members
    Frozen wrote: »
    Actually fades should be killing structures.

    Why do you think so?
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Because removing structure damage is a band-aid for "fade-balls," not a real design decision.
  • alsteralster Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members
    In NS1 acid rockets was a big reason Marines couldn't turtle with 3 hive aliens. You have fade mobility and gorge like structure damage. GG.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    alster wrote: »
    In NS1 acid rockets was a big reason Marines couldn't turtle with 3 hive aliens. You have fade mobility and gorge like structure damage. GG.

    ...acid rocket for biomass 9? Right next to contamination...
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think stab should be replaced with something that pwns jetpackers.
  • Bike_ManBike_Man USA Join Date: 2016-03-12 Member: 214124Members
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer
    Acid Rockets would pown jetpackers... even with low damage it would be useful
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Avid rocket as a structure killing weapon, and armor reducing, would be late game tech. I would say no less than biomass 7. Being late game tech, its purpose would be to end games.

    Acid rocket would allow fades to do more than just kill players, but allow a turtle to be ended sooner. Acid rocket would also allow fades to kill marines easier in late game, also helping end turtles.

    It doesn't have to be as effective as bile bomb on structures. As long as it did more dps on structures than swipe does.
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    Bike_Man wrote: »
    Give fades devour.

    And lift too ...
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members
    edited June 2016
    Nordic wrote: »
    Avid rocket as a structure killing weapon, and armor reducing, would be late game tech. I would say no less than biomass 7. Being late game tech, its purpose would be to end games.

    Acid rocket would allow fades to do more than just kill players, but allow a turtle to be ended sooner. Acid rocket would also allow fades to kill marines easier in late game, also helping end turtles.

    It doesn't have to be as effective as bile bomb on structures. As long as it did more dps on structures than swipe does.

    Since when having 3 hives became a win condition? Aren't you underestimating the damage output of late game marines a bit?
    If aliens can't break a turtle it's often, lack of teamwork, or bad commander (doesnt use drifter support)

    As for the reason why fades have low structural damage, well fades already have the tankiness and the speed,
    It's simply a matter of rock paper scissors, if you want teamwork in a game, shouldn't give everything to 1 class.
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members
    edited June 2016
    I think it makes sense for 3 hives to be a win condition, but you only get the best abilities with a couple more biomass. That way, if marines can get the 3rd hive down right away they still can come back. I think acid rockets at biomass 8 or 9 would work.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    I agree with hive 3 not instantly being an autowin upon going up, but it should absolutely bring the big overpowered near impossibile to counter abilities with it after a couple minutes.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Since when having 3 hives became a win condition? Aren't you underestimating the damage output of late game marines a bit?
    If aliens can't break a turtle it's often, lack of teamwork, or bad commander (doesnt use drifter support)

    As for the reason why fades have low structural damage, well fades already have the tankiness and the speed,
    It's simply a matter of rock paper scissors, if you want teamwork in a game, shouldn't give everything to 1 class.

    The game has been designed as such that at the third hive, the alien team is supposed to win since b250. Contamination was always supposed to be a game ender and turtle breaker. When bile bomb damage was added to it, that was supposed to make it actually useful at ending games.

    You can see more of this discussion in the following thread link, and I reccomend you bring it up there if you wish to discuss that aspect. http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2291222/#Comment_2291222
  • Bike_ManBike_Man USA Join Date: 2016-03-12 Member: 214124Members
    edited June 2016
    Perhaps fades don't really need another ability, but I still think an alternate attack would be nice. All other lifeforms have something. Skulks bite and parasite. Gorges spit and bile. Lerks poison bite and puncture. Oni gore and stomp. Each lifeform also has unique movement abilities and other roles. But since stab is fairly rare and useless, fades just swipe, blink, and metabolize. It works, but isn't as consistent when you see all of the extras every other lifeform gets. Adding a debuff to the attack could be simpler development-wise, but as it has been mentioned, re-adding acid rockets would be nice too. Otherwise, swipe might as well be disabled/removed.

    Edit: Bug fixed in last patch. Still arguably useless.
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