Ping bars instead of numbers... seriously?

MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
in NS2 General Discussion
Seriously.... SERIOUSLY!!!???

Who thought this was a good idea? I saw a sarcastic post from someone mentioning it and thought it was a joke, then I noticed that they are actually BARS!!! WTF!!?!?!?

Please explain the logic of hiding our connection strength to the servers in the browser.... Such a horrible idea being implemented makes me fear that you guys are aiming for console release of NS2 complete with peer to peer matchmaking to replace dedicated servers...

I can't be the only one looking at this change and going "what the fuck!?!?!"

Please for the sake of my sanity explain why... I must know why!!?
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Comments

  • Sgt_SassSgt_Sass Join Date: 2016-02-13 Member: 213004Members
    The numbers weren't actually accurate. A server listed as 50ms may be less laggy than server listed as 40ms, so it wasn't an accurate way to communicate the information.

    That's what I read anyhow.
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  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Sgt_Sass wrote: »
    The numbers weren't actually accurate. A server listed as 50ms may be less laggy than server listed as 40ms, so it wasn't an accurate way to communicate the information.

    That's what I read anyhow.

    Yup:
    GhoulofGSG9 wrote: »
    zeep wrote: »
    Why was this changed? A number tells me much more than bars.

    Because the number are inaccurate and misleading due to how latency gets measured by the steam master server system. Often a server having 20 ms higher latency turns out to be in the end the server with less latency as soon as you ping it directly. I don't think anyone is aware about this little but important fact and that's why the the ping numbers are not shown in the server list to display that they are approximated in the first place.
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  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Members
    I'm not too fussed about this.
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  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    I just have extremely bad experiences with games that use ping bars.. I hate playing with high ping (for a number of reasons) and with bars you usually can't tell a 90 ping server apart from a 190 ping server...

    Plus it gives an impression (to me anyway) that it's a dumbed down console game. If I was new I'd be going into my first game expecting it to suck..

    Thankfully we can still see the ping in-game and in the server info popup... Please for the love of god don't put those useless bars there too.
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  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    edited June 2016
    GhoulofGSG9 wrote: »
    Because the number are inaccurate and misleading due to how latency gets measured by the steam master server system.

    If I understand this sentence correctly, it's not something UWE can do much about (exceptionally) if it is handled through some service of steam.
    I'm not that disturbed by this change, since I have 2-3 fav servers where I play and know the latency of them already. It does seem a bit cheap, but it's better than false information imo
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  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Members
    edited June 2016
    NS2 console port and HL3 confirmed?
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  • Mattk50Mattk50 Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    we should be able to see the approximation numbers, put a ~ next to them or something. The alaising on the new browser and it's icons is pretty messy btw.
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  • woozawooza Switzerland Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Members, Squad Five Blue
    I can recommend everyone to not use the NS2 Server browser but instead the Steam Server Browser

    Advantage of Steam Server browser:

    -Shows accurate Ping
    -Rookies can join every server without being forced to join rookie-only first
    -Shows ALL servers with one view
    -Generally faster to join the server than to "queue" over NS2 Server Browser



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  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    SupaDupaNoodle wrote: »
    Careful, if you keep speaking logic like this someone may come and accuse you of political incorrectness against bad ping servers!

    Also, why are bad performance servers given a sadface? And good performance servers given a smileyface? That is also politically incorrect. We should not judge the emotions of servers based on performance. Just put a neutral face or shruggie face on all servers.

    I assure you my face is not neutral or shruggie if I am warping all over the place or can't hit targets. I would be saddened followed by a swift disconnect.
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  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    SupaDupaNoodle wrote: »
    Careful, if you keep speaking logic like this someone may come and accuse you of political incorrectness against bad ping servers!

    Also, why are bad performance servers given a sadface? And good performance servers given a smileyface? That is also politically incorrect. We should not judge the emotions of servers based on performance. Just put a neutral face or shruggie face on all servers.

    I assure you my face is not neutral or shruggie if I am warping all over the place or can't hit targets. I would be saddened followed by a swift disconnect.

    How dare you discriminate servers... I'm deeply offended by your lack of empathy
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  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Members
    edited June 2016
    It's not about you, it's about the server owner's emotions.
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  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    wooza wrote: »
    I can recommend everyone to not use the NS2 Server browser but instead the Steam Server Browser

    Advantage of Steam Server browser:

    -Shows accurate Ping
    -Rookies can join every server without being forced to join rookie-only first
    -Shows ALL servers with one view
    -Generally faster to join the server than to "queue" over NS2 Server Browser

    I suggested this before in an earlier similar topic, but I was informed that you can't queue on reserve slots through the steam browser.
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  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    edited June 2016
    wooza wrote: »
    -Shows ALL servers with one view

    That's actually a disadvantage... It makes finding normal NS2 servers harder. Plus it leads to those moments where you think you're joining a "normal" server only to have it be some altered mode that plays like crap.

    Hence why the devs "fixed" that problem with the in-game browser...

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  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Members
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    edited June 2016
    Separating servers with those tabs is not the issue methinks... If anyone is stupid enough not to notice it, I don't think he is be able to cope with game mechanics and we are all better off
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  • woozawooza Switzerland Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited June 2016
    Aeglos wrote: »
    wooza wrote: »
    I can recommend everyone to not use the NS2 Server browser but instead the Steam Server Browser

    Advantage of Steam Server browser:

    -Shows accurate Ping
    -Rookies can join every server without being forced to join rookie-only first
    -Shows ALL servers with one view
    -Generally faster to join the server than to "queue" over NS2 Server Browser

    I suggested this before in an earlier similar topic, but I was informed that you can't queue on reserve slots through the steam browser.

    There is no queue in NS2 thats why I wrote "queue" before. Allthough the chances of joining the server over Steam is a bit higher, as they have a higher priority.

    If you wish, like me to have a real queueing system enabled, then you can vote for the idea here

    Edit: Sorry did not read the sentence fully. I don't know how it works with reserved slots. I never used it myself and I avoid to play on servers having them enabled.
    Must be a pain to try joining a server with reserved slots enabled.
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  • npstrnpstr Join Date: 2015-03-11 Member: 201964Members
    I started using the Steam Server Browser, since it displays the information more correctly than the ingame one.
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  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    So why doesn't the game just utilize steam's server browser?
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  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    Idk, maybe because valve sound

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=YY4Dov9afhA#t=50
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  • exuvoexuvo Join Date: 2010-11-27 Member: 75305Members
    I find the new ping bar very unintuitive. A low ping is desirable but a low ping bar is bad if i go according to the colors.

    And what does a full bar even mean? Maybe my definition of very good is less than 30ms ping but yours is less than 100ms. Maybe its relative to the other servers in the browser, how should I know?

    It would be much clearer to use numbers with a ~ prefix to show that it is an approximation.
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  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yeah the ping bars is a complete regression in terms of ui compared to the colored ping numbers we had before.
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  • RedSwordRedSword Join Date: 2006-12-07 Member: 58947Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Sgt_Sass wrote: »
    The numbers weren't actually accurate. A server listed as 50ms may be less laggy than server listed as 40ms, so it wasn't an accurate way to communicate the information.

    That's what I read anyhow.

    Isn't that a weak argument ?

    Doesn't that means that it is still possible to see a server showing more lag while being less laggy, but with bars ?
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  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    edited June 2016
    It's just bad all around..

    Doesn't tell you whether our not the ping to the server is actually good..

    Looks butt ugly compared to the rest of the browser (which is still in numbers thank god.. I pray they don't do bars for player count next)

    Gives the game a herp derp "CoD" feel that could cause potential buyers to think the devs are just as idiotic as IW devs were when they butchered CoD on PC.

    Just bad bad bad...


    Edit: even if the numbers were off by 100ms they would still be way more informative than crappy vague bars that tell you nothing whatsoever.
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  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    If the numbers weren't accurate to begin with.. why not just artificially print out a lower value proportionately?
    For example, if they were on average showing 20% higher latency, why not just account for that and lower it before printing out the value?
    Is that not possible?
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    If the numbers weren't accurate to begin with.. why not just artificially print out a lower value proportionately?
    For example, if they were on average showing 20% higher latency, why not just account for that and lower it before printing out the value?
    Is that not possible?

    Probably because it wasn't consistently off
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  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    If the numbers weren't accurate to begin with, what makes them think that the vague bars will be any more accurate?

    If anything the bars would be off just as much as the numbers, except with bars you have no clue whatsoever what your average ping to the server might be.

    At least with the number you have an idea..
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited June 2016
    I'm guessing it is a... defocus of the image? As in they are now defocusing the picture into bars instead of numbers...


    1-500ms is 1-500ms

    1-5bars is... each bar could have a range of 100ms?


    BlurryVision™ -where numbers are numbers and we have blurry vision when coming from bars
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