BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
Why do you want autobalance limiting spawns? In my experience, autobalance is very rarely used to actually... erm... balance the teams in the event somebody leaves in the middle of an otherwise enjoyable round. For me, just about every single time autobalance kicked in, it only served to draw out a round that people were already leaving en mass. To me, those are NOT the rounds you want to be drawing out.
@BeigeAlert I have frequently seen situations where autobalance would help at the beginning of the match when a more skilled player or 2 is shuffled to aliens, the game immediately starts and then they decide that they don't want to play on a perceived lower skill team and they quit leaving the aliens at an even larger disadvantage both in terms of average skill but also with player count. A lower hive skill team still has a chance if they work together but not really when it's also 7v10. Old style autobalance would improve these matches.
@BeigeAlert I have frequently seen situations where autobalance would help at the beginning of the match when a more skilled player or 2 is shuffled to aliens, the game immediately starts and then they decide that they don't want to play on a perceived lower skill team and they quit leaving the aliens at an even larger disadvantage both in terms of average skill but also with player count. A lower hive skill team still has a chance if they work together but not really when it's also 7v10. Old style autobalance would improve these matches.
Hmm... so it sounds like a potential solution could be to have auto-balance only work for X number of minutes... like... 5 or 10?
Hmm... so it sounds like a potential solution could be to have auto-balance only work for X number of minutes... like... 5 or 10?
That could be a solution where it can only kick in during the first few minutes, but i'd hate to see games where no one else joins and auto balance turns off 5 minutes in giving a sudden player count boost to one team.
@BeigeAlert I have frequently seen situations where autobalance would help at the beginning of the match when a more skilled player or 2 is shuffled to aliens, the game immediately starts and then they decide that they don't want to play on a perceived lower skill team and they quit leaving the aliens at an even larger disadvantage both in terms of average skill but also with player count. A lower hive skill team still has a chance if they work together but not really when it's also 7v10. Old style autobalance would improve these matches.
Hmm... so it sounds like a potential solution could be to have auto-balance only work for X number of minutes... like... 5 or 10?
People leave and join. At every stage of a game. It is pretty common that someone leaves because of whatever reason and you got a 8v10.
Why do you want autobalance limiting spawns? In my experience, autobalance is very rarely used to actually... erm... balance the teams in the event somebody leaves in the middle of an otherwise enjoyable round. For me, just about every single time autobalance kicked in, it only served to draw out a round that people were already leaving en mass. To me, those are NOT the rounds you want to be drawing out.
While I obviously agree - if this was the reason behind removing it, then it doesn't make much sense for bots to automatically fill those spots, essentially preventing an auto concede and dragging out the round more.
While I obviously agree - if this was the reason behind removing it, then it doesn't make much sense for bots to automatically fill those spots, essentially preventing an auto concede and dragging out the round more.
You could have the bots play but remove them from the auto concede calculation. Best of both worlds.
@BeigeAlert I have frequently seen situations where autobalance would help at the beginning of the match when a more skilled player or 2 is shuffled to aliens, the game immediately starts and then they decide that they don't want to play on a perceived lower skill team and they quit leaving the aliens at an even larger disadvantage both in terms of average skill but also with player count. A lower hive skill team still has a chance if they work together but not really when it's also 7v10. Old style autobalance would improve these matches.
Hmm... so it sounds like a potential solution could be to have auto-balance only work for X number of minutes... like... 5 or 10?
Your list of wants makes sense... if you want balanced 6 vs 6 play... but as we all know (or at least should know by now) NS2 is not intended as a 6 vs 6 competitive title. Thats why a competitive mod was needed in the first place, and still is needed now. The direction for NS2 is 8 vs 8 - 12 vs 12, and your list of things you want changing would alter balance in higher playercounts too much to be worth while.
In short, if you want 6 vs 6, get a mod... oh wait... there already is one.
Making the changes you propose would make the game less accessible and less fun to MANY people. but a mod with those changes can/will refine the game in a way that the small amount of people that want it, will have a game mode that they gain more enjoyment from. but in a 12 vs 12 environment, it would nerf aliens so much that the game would cease being fun for anyone that plays in that environment.
Kash, you are misreading the list. The only balance proposal is the pres tick rate, the other 4 are not necessarily balance changes but gameplay or mechanic changes. Regardless of balance health bars, new boneshield, new rupture and webs are just bad designed and need change.
Also I disagree on the balance on higher slot servers. It is not that marines are so extremely op in 8v8 that you would need those HUGE aliens buffs the last patches introduced.
new boneshield, new rupture and webs are just bad designed and need change.
This is one opinion, that you have repeatedly stated as if it is fact and not merely opinion, and maybe with competitive level play you are right, idk, but I have heard many players in pubs express great affection for these changes, particularly boneshield. Boneshield and webs are actually used now as opposed to previously when only a small subset of the player base would use them and they were rarely even researched. Hell, in the weeks after the change went in to effect and not everyone was aware of it yet it was not uncommon for me to request a commander research boneshield only to get the response "boneshield? why do you want that?"
Everybody knows what you both mean so there's no point for me to say this. But the old pres increased by 0.1 per tick per RT. A tick here is 6 seconds, so that's 1.0 res per minute per RT.
new boneshield, new rupture and webs are just bad designed and need change.
This is one opinion, that you have repeatedly stated as if it is fact and not merely opinion, and maybe with competitive level play you are right, idk, but I have heard many players in pubs express great affection for these changes, particularly boneshield. Boneshield and webs are actually used now as opposed to previously when only a small subset of the player base would use them and they were rarely even researched. Hell, in the weeks after the change went in to effect and not everyone was aware of it yet it was not uncommon for me to request a commander research boneshield only to get the response "boneshield? why do you want that?"
So because people like the new boneshield and webs better than the old one.. that makes them good? No reason to improve them further at all?
Clearly both could be tweaked to still be fun and useful without being OP... For instance..
Try removing the armor heal of boneshield and instead have it block more damage.. or have the duration and cooldown of the skill tied to how much damage the Marines do...
Likewise webs could do to have the stupid parasite effect removed and their slowdown effect increased slightly... 80% was too high for low biomass webs, but something like 40-50% should be fine. The current 25% feels like it doesn't slow Marines at all.
Honestly boneshield healing armor, if used correctly, is insanely OP.
Everybody knows what you both mean so there's no point for me to say this. But the old pres increased by 0.1 per tick per RT. A tick here is 6 seconds, so that's 1.0 res per minute per RT.
I actually think this is valuable information, so thank you for this clarification.
Comments
Or at the very least give us a vote option to disable them for that map/round...
OMG yes... this absolutely must happen.
1.0, but yes.
Hmm... so it sounds like a potential solution could be to have auto-balance only work for X number of minutes... like... 5 or 10?
That could be a solution where it can only kick in during the first few minutes, but i'd hate to see games where no one else joins and auto balance turns off 5 minutes in giving a sudden player count boost to one team.
The old system may have not been perfect overall, but it is better than the current one.
People leave and join. At every stage of a game. It is pretty common that someone leaves because of whatever reason and you got a 8v10.
While I obviously agree - if this was the reason behind removing it, then it doesn't make much sense for bots to automatically fill those spots, essentially preventing an auto concede and dragging out the round more.
You could have the bots play but remove them from the auto concede calculation. Best of both worlds.
This sounds like the best of both worlds to me.
Your list of wants makes sense... if you want balanced 6 vs 6 play... but as we all know (or at least should know by now) NS2 is not intended as a 6 vs 6 competitive title. Thats why a competitive mod was needed in the first place, and still is needed now. The direction for NS2 is 8 vs 8 - 12 vs 12, and your list of things you want changing would alter balance in higher playercounts too much to be worth while.
In short, if you want 6 vs 6, get a mod... oh wait... there already is one.
Making the changes you propose would make the game less accessible and less fun to MANY people. but a mod with those changes can/will refine the game in a way that the small amount of people that want it, will have a game mode that they gain more enjoyment from. but in a 12 vs 12 environment, it would nerf aliens so much that the game would cease being fun for anyone that plays in that environment.
Also I disagree on the balance on higher slot servers. It is not that marines are so extremely op in 8v8 that you would need those HUGE aliens buffs the last patches introduced.
This is one opinion, that you have repeatedly stated as if it is fact and not merely opinion, and maybe with competitive level play you are right, idk, but I have heard many players in pubs express great affection for these changes, particularly boneshield. Boneshield and webs are actually used now as opposed to previously when only a small subset of the player base would use them and they were rarely even researched. Hell, in the weeks after the change went in to effect and not everyone was aware of it yet it was not uncommon for me to request a commander research boneshield only to get the response "boneshield? why do you want that?"
Everybody knows what you both mean so there's no point for me to say this. But the old pres increased by 0.1 per tick per RT. A tick here is 6 seconds, so that's 1.0 res per minute per RT.
So because people like the new boneshield and webs better than the old one.. that makes them good? No reason to improve them further at all?
Clearly both could be tweaked to still be fun and useful without being OP... For instance..
Try removing the armor heal of boneshield and instead have it block more damage.. or have the duration and cooldown of the skill tied to how much damage the Marines do...
Likewise webs could do to have the stupid parasite effect removed and their slowdown effect increased slightly... 80% was too high for low biomass webs, but something like 40-50% should be fine. The current 25% feels like it doesn't slow Marines at all.
Honestly boneshield healing armor, if used correctly, is insanely OP.
I actually think this is valuable information, so thank you for this clarification.